Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
^^
But why can’t jammer pods be installed now on IOC/ EOC aircraft. It with provide some protection, as compared to none currently, against incoming missiles.
IIRC there was no jammer pod on Abhinandan’s Bison
But why can’t jammer pods be installed now on IOC/ EOC aircraft. It with provide some protection, as compared to none currently, against incoming missiles.
IIRC there was no jammer pod on Abhinandan’s Bison
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
^^^
It will in time!
Integration is no trivial task. SPJ, by its nature, interferes with existing avionics, EW and radar. Requires additional power and wirings. Flight tests on all expected Gs and maneuvers. And so on.
Be thankful FOC has been achieved. If the IAF had increased its scope to make SPJ mandatory, FOC would still not have completed.
It will in time!
Integration is no trivial task. SPJ, by its nature, interferes with existing avionics, EW and radar. Requires additional power and wirings. Flight tests on all expected Gs and maneuvers. And so on.
Be thankful FOC has been achieved. If the IAF had increased its scope to make SPJ mandatory, FOC would still not have completed.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
HVT Tweet
HV @hvtiaf
Ah! Brutal work-days.
Tejas take-off roll values published on OS are way-off.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
HVT Tweet
Twitter link
So the Tejas can take off within 2000 feet distance on a runway.
Twitter link
2 runway markers = 2000 feet.Why is there so much duff-gen on Tejas, everywhere you look on internet?
The aircraft takes-off from a carrier without catapult, and within two markers on a runway. Not underpowered by any yardstick in the world.
So the Tejas can take off within 2000 feet distance on a runway.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
HVT mentioned that parachute brakes will be a thing of the past and Carbon brakes are next.
How do the Carbon brakes work ?
How do the Carbon brakes work ?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
500-600 metersKartik wrote:HVT Tweet
Twitter link2 runway markers = 2000 feet.Why is there so much duff-gen on Tejas, everywhere you look on internet?
The aircraft takes-off from a carrier without catapult, and within two markers on a runway. Not underpowered by any yardstick in the world.
So the Tejas can take off within 2000 feet distance on a runway.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Goals are set to focus resources so things are not scattershot. A 60-70% self reliance is a proper goal. That can only be achieved through a consistent market for local goods. Without it, indigenous institutions and companies cannot survive and grow in enough numbers to give you that 60-70 percent.csaurabh wrote:Chola ji I disagree with this goal thing. If you really look at it then the 'goal' is not producing aircrafts but defending the country. Which can be done just as well by buying Rafales or whatever from other countries. In the case of space industry, the goal ( such as obtaining satellite images or communication bandwidth ) can also be achieved by buying the same from other countries.chola wrote:^^^ I imagine even the US and Russia have tooling from many different countries. No one country makes everything. At least currently (might change in post chini virus world.)
It is also a matter of investment for which goal. If goal is the production of aircraft then it makes sense to buy the necessary tooling off the shelf and concentrate human and financial resources on the manufacturing and assembly of aircraft parts.
If the goal is complete self-reliance then maybe you need to invest the tooling as well. That would be going into a rat hole. There will always something that we don't make even tools are made by other tools.
A better way is developing a thriving and growing manufacturing ecosystem where consistent investment in growth and replacement encourages local firms to make machines that compete for those cogs in the build chain. Again, you need consistent investment decades upon decades to build up local industry.
I think we at BR are mature enough to understand (atleast by now) that these are things of national importance and prestige, and sovereignty cannot simply be bought off the shelf anytime we like with no consequence. Why not extend the same logic to the machinery, components, raw material input, software and so on?
Like you said this is not going to happen quickly notwithstanding slogans of atmanirbharta or whatever. And we don't need complete self reliance. Lets have around 60-70% self reliance instead of the current 20-30%. Great powers like France and Russia are probably at that level. What is required is a consistent push in incentives for the development of technologies and not looking down upon our 1-2 yr efforts in comparison to some 30-40 year old Western company already in the business for decades. ( I am involved in this so I see this kind of thing happening ).
I'll point to Cheen as an example again. The chini mil aerospace sector is under embargo so today it is pretty much 100% self-reliant. Their consumer IC is (was) not so they ended up dependent on foreign imports for about 70% of the chips they use in their consumer electronics. But their HPC industry is under embargo so the chips for their HPCs are local. Embargoes are double-edged swords. They can slow down development and reduce standards by locking you from the best products on the market but they also protect the local industry by removing foreign competition.
Our examples of the duel nature of embargos are best exemplified by the excruciating delay of the LCA program and the monumental success of ISRO in indigenizing rockets.
India's aviation industry is not under embargo (currently) so it means there is constant competition everywhere in the build chain from established foreign firms. It has to be a conscious effort to buy local. This by necessity has to be GOI led. There must be mandate for PSU's to but local and subsidies for products made in country. You need to fund this development with orders consistently year after year, decade after decade to grow an ecosystem.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Isn't take-off distance a function of weight? Wonder what is the generic take-off distance refers to for fighters.Kartik wrote:HVT Tweet
Twitter link2 runway markers = 2000 feet.Why is there so much duff-gen on Tejas, everywhere you look on internet?
The aircraft takes-off from a carrier without catapult, and within two markers on a runway. Not underpowered by any yardstick in the world.
So the Tejas can take off within 2000 feet distance on a runway.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
LCA Mk1 itself already has Carbon-carbon brakes.
What HVT mentioned is a more optimized, newer gen of carbon-carbon brakes.
What HVT mentioned is a more optimized, newer gen of carbon-carbon brakes.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
From the Tejas LCA FB page
LA-5017 over Bangalore
LA-5017 over Bangalore
LA-5017 (the first FOC standard Tejas) over Bangalore during a scheduled production test flight.
#TejasLCA #Tejas #TejasOfficialArchive #HAL
#HindustanAeronauticsLimited #ADA
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
That will open up a fairly large space (parachutes storage) for additional gear!Neela wrote:HVT mentioned that parachute brakes will be a thing of the past and Carbon brakes are next.
...
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Or fuel. Thats a drop-tank worth of fuel I would imagine.srai wrote:That will open up a fairly large space (parachutes storage) for additional gear!Neela wrote:HVT mentioned that parachute brakes will be a thing of the past and Carbon brakes are next.
...
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Did they take off the refueling probe?Kartik wrote:From the Tejas LCA FB page
LA-5017 over Bangalore
LA-5017 (the first FOC standard Tejas) over Bangalore during a scheduled production test flight.
#TejasLCA #Tejas #TejasOfficialArchive #HAL
#HindustanAeronauticsLimited #ADA
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Its Plug and Play can be removed when not neededyensoy wrote:Did they take off the refueling probe?Kartik wrote:From the Tejas LCA FB page
LA-5017 over Bangalore
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
F-16 drouge parachute weighs about 10kg! Hardly any useful fuel that can replace it!khan wrote:Or fuel. Thats a drop-tank worth of fuel I would imagine.srai wrote: That will open up a fairly large space (parachutes storage) for additional gear!
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Yes it is a bolt on /Bolt off refueling probe. But what is more important that the orange lid of the landing Parachute is also missing- have they fitted better carbon fiber brakes on the FOC aircraft?yensoy wrote:Did they take off the refueling probe?Kartik wrote:From the Tejas LCA FB page
LA-5017 over Bangalore
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Parachutes exist. The cover is no longer painted red.
Tejas already uses C-C brakes with life of 300 landings. Next generation brakes with 700 landings in qualifications. Goal is to reach brakes with life of 1000 landings.
Tejas already uses C-C brakes with life of 300 landings. Next generation brakes with 700 landings in qualifications. Goal is to reach brakes with life of 1000 landings.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Who makes tyres for LCA Tejas ?
MRF was planning to make it, but not sure if this has clear all tests.
https://twitter.com/rahulsinghx/status/ ... 88704?s=19
MRF was planning to make it, but not sure if this has clear all tests.
https://twitter.com/rahulsinghx/status/ ... 88704?s=19
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Why is it called Carbon-Carbon Indranil?Indranil wrote:Parachutes exist. The cover is no longer painted red.
Tejas already uses C-C brakes with life of 300 landings. Next generation brakes with 700 landings in qualifications. Goal is to reach brakes with life of 1000 landings.
Is one carbon not enough?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
^^^
Called C-C as it combines structural carbon discs with carbon brake pads. There are also carbon-ceramic brakes available.
Called C-C as it combines structural carbon discs with carbon brake pads. There are also carbon-ceramic brakes available.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Not sure if this is has a specific meaning for brakes. But Carbon Carbon is a generic name for a type of composite material which has carbon fibres embedded inside a matrix of graphite ( graphite is also carbon ).basant wrote:^^^
Called C-C as it combines structural carbon discs with carbon brake pads. There are also carbon-ceramic brakes available.
C-C is a super material used for the toughest and hottest parts of aerospace industry (like nose cones ). Very few orgs. in the world have the capability to manufacture it because it is really hard to make. ISRO is one of them.
That is why it is also very expensive. I once held a small piece of C-C about 10cmx2cmx2cm in my hand and was told it cost around Rs. 10000!
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I could be wrong. Thanks for the correction.csaurabh wrote:Not sure if this is has a specific meaning for brakes. But Carbon Carbon is a generic name for a type of composite material which has carbon fibres embedded inside a matrix of graphite ( graphite is also carbon ).basant wrote:^^^
Called C-C as it combines structural carbon discs with carbon brake pads. There are also carbon-ceramic brakes available.
C-C is a super material used for the toughest and hottest parts of aerospace industry (like nose cones ). Very few orgs. in the world have the capability to manufacture it because it is really hard to make. ISRO is one of them.
That is why it is also very expensive. I once held a small piece of C-C about 10cmx2cmx2cm in my hand and was told it cost around Rs. 10000!
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Correct. But AFAIK it is not built by ISRO, but Graphite India.csaurabh wrote:Not sure if this is has a specific meaning for brakes. But Carbon Carbon is a generic name for a type of composite material which has carbon fibres embedded inside a matrix of graphite ( graphite is also carbon ).basant wrote:^^^
Called C-C as it combines structural carbon discs with carbon brake pads. There are also carbon-ceramic brakes available.
C-C is a super material used for the toughest and hottest parts of aerospace industry (like nose cones ). Very few orgs. in the world have the capability to manufacture it because it is really hard to make. ISRO is one of them.
That is why it is also very expensive. I once held a small piece of C-C about 10cmx2cmx2cm in my hand and was told it cost around Rs. 10000!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Basant, you are actually correct from the perspective of brakesbasant wrote:I could be wrong. Thanks for the correction.csaurabh wrote:
Not sure if this is has a specific meaning for brakes. But Carbon Carbon is a generic name for a type of composite material which has carbon fibres embedded inside a matrix of graphite ( graphite is also carbon ).
C-C is a super material used for the toughest and hottest parts of aerospace industry (like nose cones ). Very few orgs. in the world have the capability to manufacture it because it is really hard to make. ISRO is one of them.
That is why it is also very expensive. I once held a small piece of C-C about 10cmx2cmx2cm in my hand and was told it cost around Rs. 10000!
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Thanks for the update Indranil.Indranil wrote:Parachutes exist. The cover is no longer painted red.
Tejas already uses C-C brakes with life of 300 landings. Next generation brakes with 700 landings in qualifications. Goal is to reach brakes with life of 1000 landings.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
When will SP-22/18 fly?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Just compared the Mig21 length to that of LCA. The Mig21 is actually around 3 mtrs longer than LCA!
I wonder why did we make it so shorter than Mig21. Looks like IAF specified a "better Mig21" spec and these were met by a 3 mtr shorter LCA! Then they compained about short legs!
Gripen E is actually .5 mts shorter than Mig21!
We are doing 1.5 mtrs shorter than Mig21, for the same spec as Gripen E.
LCA: 13M Gripen C: 14.3M Gripen E: 15.5M MWF: 14.5M Mig21: 16M
I wonder why did we make it so shorter than Mig21. Looks like IAF specified a "better Mig21" spec and these were met by a 3 mtr shorter LCA! Then they compained about short legs!
Gripen E is actually .5 mts shorter than Mig21!
We are doing 1.5 mtrs shorter than Mig21, for the same spec as Gripen E.
LCA: 13M Gripen C: 14.3M Gripen E: 15.5M MWF: 14.5M Mig21: 16M
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
what the Gnat length??
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Around 29 ft 8 inch (9 m) as per this Team BHP articlemanjgu wrote:what the Gnat length??
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commerci ... e-6-a.html
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
so LCA-2/MWF will still be shorter than Mig 21, that means all the PENS in JK and Awantipur and throughout west and north border that was made for Mig 21 (our smallest plane) can be used without modification for LCA-2/MWF (and of course LCAMK1A).
The bigger PENS used for Mig 29, Jags, SU30mki etc. can be also used by our Tejas and its siblings.
The bigger PENS used for Mig 29, Jags, SU30mki etc. can be also used by our Tejas and its siblings.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
LCA is wider by 1m wrt Mig-21. Hope that would not be an issue.fanne wrote:so LCA-2/MWF will still be shorter than Mig 21, that means all the PENS in JK and Awantipur and throughout west and north border that was made for Mig 21 (our smallest plane) can be used without modification for LCA-2/MWF (and of course LCAMK1A).
The bigger PENS used for Mig 29, Jags, SU30mki etc. can be also used by our Tejas and its siblings.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I always wondered about the large wing area Tejas presents in a WVR fight to incoming missiles detonating with proximity fuses or to strafing by guns.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Wing area large in relation to what?amar_p wrote:I always wondered about the large wing area Tejas presents in a WVR fight to incoming missiles detonating with proximity fuses or to strafing by guns.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
That is always going to be there, unless you go with a short stubby wing like the ones on F104, but that would not work when you want hot and high performance.amar_p wrote:I always wondered about the large wing area Tejas presents in a WVR fight to incoming missiles detonating with proximity fuses or to strafing by guns.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
The large wing means its ITR is going to be superlative.amar_p wrote:I always wondered about the large wing area Tejas presents in a WVR fight to incoming missiles detonating with proximity fuses or to strafing by guns.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
^^^
ITR of nearly 30 degrees per second
ITR of nearly 30 degrees per second
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Gurus, is it possible to arm Mk.1 IOCs with BVR quickly? We can dream of self-reliance if we could have got the 3 other FOCs delivered by now! How long are we going to put up with 'in a few days'?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
IOC to FOC mostly software upgrade from my understanding.
Heard IFR might be an issue but all rest should be doable either at one go or in phases. It is probable some of the upgrades might have already been released on IOC aircraft.
Heard IFR might be an issue but all rest should be doable either at one go or in phases. It is probable some of the upgrades might have already been released on IOC aircraft.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Afaik
no gun
No IFR
no gun
No IFR
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I m curious on why we r nt gng for 414 on Mk1A?
Till Dec 2017 - Tejas mk2 was lca with 414. It is gr8 that we branched out for MWF.
But same almost frozen airframe config of Dec 2017 can be used for Mk1A? Does 414 adds too much of cost?
Till Dec 2017 - Tejas mk2 was lca with 414. It is gr8 that we branched out for MWF.
But same almost frozen airframe config of Dec 2017 can be used for Mk1A? Does 414 adds too much of cost?