was speaking about this whole new talk of separate regiment for gujarat, gujarat being insurance of india, taking gujarati culture to new heights instead of "running away" to delhi etc from chand turakhia ji.. found it, "bahut hi krantikari", so to speak..kapilrdave wrote:separatist streak in GJ? Not in the wildest of imagination. These dhokla eating pot bellied softy gujjus can't do anything but bijness. Nothing krantikari about them.
Chandturakhiya bhai need to have some soft dhoklas and chillAtri wrote:was speaking about this whole new talk of separate regiment for gujarat, gujarat being insurance of india, taking gujarati culture to new heights instead of "running away" to delhi etc from chand turakhia ji.. found it, "bahut hi krantikari", so to speak..kapilrdave wrote:separatist streak in GJ? Not in the wildest of imagination. These dhokla eating pot bellied softy gujjus can't do anything but bijness. Nothing krantikari about them.
.precisely.Klaus wrote:Raising fresh Hindu capital will happen with de-linking of temples to government, something that has a very good chance of happening if NM comes to power. Distractions like AAP need to make way for the real debate on black-money to come to the fore. All of this may not happen before 2019, which is why NM will need a second term at all costs.
I dont understand this new assertion of NM being a Delhi guy, terms like these just being thrown around to illustrate theories. Additionally, Guj is one of the most hyper-networked states to Western cartels, fully in embrace of globalization.
BTW separatist streak of this particular flavor has been on the forum for a while, posters come & go (usually banned). I vividly remember the term used as being Neo-Gurjara Pratihara kingdom.
THIS IS WHERE IT Picks :pkapilrdave wrote:separatist streak in GJ? Not in the wildest of imagination. These dhokla eating pot bellied softy gujjus can't do anything but bijness. Nothing krantikari about them.
If the corrupt and anti-national forces are not punished and NaMo only delivers development, then that is ABV-2 only, no? If there are no reforms in electoral process, judicial process, police,...etc and the radia-media is allowed to remain as corrupt and funded by FDI, then NaMo is ABV-2.VikasRaina wrote:People who think he is going to be a Hindu ideologue or will become ABV-2 or will be overwhelmed with the problems left behind by UPA or will go after dynasty with vengeance or will snub America or will somehow pander to Kashmiri separatists etc. etc.. will be surprised.johneeG wrote:What kind of surprise?
He will be nothing but grander self of what he has been in Gujarat, a development man with no nonsense decisive attitude with no pandering to corruption or incompetence.
If nothing else, we will see new and fresh ideas churning out of NaMo govt. It will be unlike any govt that Delhi sultanate has seen and will be a true Indic govt.
Jihadis are playing Taqiya here, they badly want INC to win and they know nothing pisses the Indian public more than someone who has thier support. Clever psy-ops. They will talk of LOC Fencing aand Operation Parakram, Holding elections in 2002 and INC generosity cause they want INC to win not Modi.chetak wrote:
Why is it that jehadis always think that a weak Hindu leader will not hand over cashmere but a strong Hindu leader will, without hesitation, hand over cashmere to them in the blink of an eye??
But, the problem is normal course of law will be impeded by using clout and that clout has to be overruled. Thats the cure.We all want the INC system to be wrecked completely but things are very bad, please understand this.johneeG wrote: If the corrupt and anti-national forces are not punished and NaMo only delivers development, then that is ABV-2 only, no? If there are no reforms in electoral process, judicial process, police,...etc and the radia-media is allowed to remain as corrupt and funded by FDI, then NaMo is ABV-2.
ABV also provided development. Where did he/lotus fail? He/lotus failed in not pushing for systemic change and continued with the kongi system which was inherited from the brits. That allowed the kongis to come back.
If NaMo also repeats the same, then it leaves the door open for the kongis/dynasty(or some other variation) to come back and wreck the dhesh. Even if the kongis don't come back, the system itself is geared for exploitation rather than protection. Infact, whenever strict standards are asked of lotus, they complain that the system does not allow them to be too good. And that they have to make some compromises to get power. Fine. But, once the power is achieved, if they still don't push for systemic changes that would take away the need for compromises or corruption, then its failure.
Agree but it has to be done selectively, otherwise they will all gang up and do anythng and everything to get Modi out of power.Singha wrote:A Putin style attack on vested interests has to be done in parallel with repairing the economy left stripped by congi locusts.
use baygon liberally and the electric badminton racquet.
Saar,Karan M wrote:We all want the INC system to be wrecked completely but things are very bad, please understand this.johneeG wrote: If the corrupt and anti-national forces are not punished and NaMo only delivers development, then that is ABV-2 only, no? If there are no reforms in electoral process, judicial process, police,...etc and the radia-media is allowed to remain as corrupt and funded by FDI, then NaMo is ABV-2.
ABV also provided development. Where did he/lotus fail? He/lotus failed in not pushing for systemic change and continued with the kongi system which was inherited from the brits. That allowed the kongis to come back.
If NaMo also repeats the same, then it leaves the door open for the kongis/dynasty(or some other variation) to come back and wreck the dhesh. Even if the kongis don't come back, the system itself is geared for exploitation rather than protection. Infact, whenever strict standards are asked of lotus, they complain that the system does not allow them to be too good. And that they have to make some compromises to get power. Fine. But, once the power is achieved, if they still don't push for systemic changes that would take away the need for compromises or corruption, then its failure.
I'll take ABV-2 currently. All the business of strict standards for lotus, all or nothing are good for the rich or those folks who dont have to struggle with basic necessities of getting to work without being frustrated by horrible traffic, bad pollution or even getting simple items without being ripped off 10x by inflation in an economy which is floundering.
They can continue to wish for Prince Hemu. I'll make do with a decent Peshwa. We can aspire for fancy stuff when the basics are met.
This is more to my gust feeling worry. can explain if required.kapilrdave wrote:Turakhia bhai, here is my response.
On the contrary, you are the one asking for the unattainable, by asking for radical moves which are unlikely to happen. The current aim is to get the train back on track, not pursue unrealistic radical moves which take too much time to fructify. The currrent system, flaws and all, can still deliver as NaMo proved in Gujarat. Second, there are enough powers vested with decision makers already to get things done if they have the will and are accountable.johneeG wrote:
Saar,
what you are hoping for is the fancy stuff: development, solution to pollution/traffic, controlling the inflation, saving the economy, security, ...etc is the fancy stuff especially if the basics like proper system are not achieved.
When the cart is put before the horse, its a wrong way of doing things. If the corrupt and anti-national forces are not punished and allowed to survive within a system, then expecting such a system to keep performing is expecting fancy stuff. Even if such a thing is achieved, it will be short-lived...like putting a lipstick on a pig to make it beautiful. Far better to clean the closets and remove all the skeletons.
For a top politician, its easier to push for proper reforms than to build infrastructure and save the economy. To push for proper reforms, one only needs political will and there is likely to be public support for such a reform. The only opposition will come from vested interests. On the other hand, building infrastructure or saving the economy or solving pollution...etc, issues like that come with real challenges and are not necessarily solved by political will. Political will is the first step, but it needs many more things. Many resources including skilled labour are needed to solve such issues. It will take time to accumulate the resources including the skilled labour. On the other hand, reforms in laws and system require only political will. So, for a top politician, it is easier to create new laws or discard old laws rather than to build infrastructure or provide development or reduce inflation. The only thing holding back, top politicians from asking for a systemic change is their own direct or indirect vested interests or inertia.
'Radical moves' is a wrong word, saar. There is nothing radical about solving fundamental issues. How those issues should be solved is open for debate. But to say that trying to solve such issue itself is radical is wrong thinking, IMHO.Karan M wrote:On the contrary, you are the one asking for the unattainable, by asking for radical moves which are unlikely to happen. The current aim is to get the train back on track, not pursue unrealistic radical moves which take too much time to fructify. The currrent system, flaws and all, can still deliver as NaMo proved in Gujarat. Second, there are enough powers vested with decision makers already to get things done if they have the will and are accountable.johneeG wrote:
Saar,
what you are hoping for is the fancy stuff: development, solution to pollution/traffic, controlling the inflation, saving the economy, security, ...etc is the fancy stuff especially if the basics like proper system are not achieved.
When the cart is put before the horse, its a wrong way of doing things. If the corrupt and anti-national forces are not punished and allowed to survive within a system, then expecting such a system to keep performing is expecting fancy stuff. Even if such a thing is achieved, it will be short-lived...like putting a lipstick on a pig to make it beautiful. Far better to clean the closets and remove all the skeletons.
For a top politician, its easier to push for proper reforms than to build infrastructure and save the economy. To push for proper reforms, one only needs political will and there is likely to be public support for such a reform. The only opposition will come from vested interests. On the other hand, building infrastructure or saving the economy or solving pollution...etc, issues like that come with real challenges and are not necessarily solved by political will. Political will is the first step, but it needs many more things. Many resources including skilled labour are needed to solve such issues. It will take time to accumulate the resources including the skilled labour. On the other hand, reforms in laws and system require only political will. So, for a top politician, it is easier to create new laws or discard old laws rather than to build infrastructure or provide development or reduce inflation. The only thing holding back, top politicians from asking for a systemic change is their own direct or indirect vested interests or inertia.
Even with leakage, we can have dramatic results if the Govt merely performs to what it should. Incremental improvements can make a huge difference, if pursued constantly as a good administrator has shown.
All this Lotus should be more pure than driven snow stuff that you are pushing shows you don't have a dawg in the fight and can hence wait for Godot. The rest of us, want immediate improvements and will be benefited by even incremental changes to the status quo which add up over the next few years.
SagarAg wrote:TRS-turns-to-BJP
this reminds me of sandra bullocks lines in miss congeniality. it could be satire, for all we know.IndraD wrote:
notice as fresh as end Jan 14, she supported NaMO
Wasn't' Modi talking all the time about "congress Mukt Bharat". That I believe encompasses congress and it's venal systems.Karan M wrote:We all want the INC system to be wrecked completely but things are very bad, please understand this.johneeG wrote: If the corrupt and anti-national forces are not punished and NaMo only delivers development, then that is ABV-2 only, no? If there are no reforms in electoral process, judicial process, police,...etc and the radia-media is allowed to remain as corrupt and funded by FDI, then NaMo is ABV-2.
ABV also provided development. Where did he/lotus fail? He/lotus failed in not pushing for systemic change and continued with the kongi system which was inherited from the brits. That allowed the kongis to come back.
If NaMo also repeats the same, then it leaves the door open for the kongis/dynasty(or some other variation) to come back and wreck the dhesh. Even if the kongis don't come back, the system itself is geared for exploitation rather than protection. Infact, whenever strict standards are asked of lotus, they complain that the system does not allow them to be too good. And that they have to make some compromises to get power. Fine. But, once the power is achieved, if they still don't push for systemic changes that would take away the need for compromises or corruption, then its failure.
I'll take ABV-2 currently. All the business of strict standards for lotus, all or nothing are good for the rich or those folks who dont have to struggle with basic necessities of getting to work without being frustrated by horrible traffic, bad pollution or even getting simple items without being ripped off 10x by inflation in an economy which is floundering.
They can continue to wish for Prince Hemu. I'll make do with a decent Peshwa. We can aspire for fancy stuff when the basics are met.
So she was looking for a BJP/SAD ticket and they refused, so she joined the party where it is easiest to get a ticket.IndraD wrote:
notice as fresh as end Jan 14, she supported NaMO
Boss you are going all over the place. In one set of posts you claim that merely being development is ABV-2 and not good enough and focus has to be on H-topics. In another, when I point out that ABV-2 is enough to begin with and must be the first focus even as other things get worked out, since that is what Indian public wants NaMo for right now, you say even that is not possible without complete disruption. When I say that is actually wrong since current state can deliver if an effective leader runs the ship, now you retract and say, hey that is possible, but I want more and it is I who thinks they can't be complimentary. Then you say you are not anti NaMo.johneeG wrote: 'Radical moves' is a wrong word, saar. There is nothing radical about solving fundamental issues. How those issues should be solved is open for debate. But to say that trying to solve such issue itself is radical is wrong thinking, IMHO.
But, I agree with you, even with all the faults, the Govts can perform. But, it also true, that the Govts are constrained by the same system just as people are constrained by the same system to tolerate leakages, corruption, inefficiency, even anti-national activities, and pander to issues that weaken the country and society. Despite such constraints, the Govts can perform better, but they cannot perform to their best. And it leaves many loopholes open to be exploited by one and all.
I agree with you that short-term solutions are needed. But, that does not mean one stops expecting long-term solutions.
See, the situation will always be like this only: short-term vs long-term. As Singha saar said, the need is to balance both long-term and short-term. But, if people say, lets just forget the long-term as long as short-term growth is delivered, it will lead to problems sooner than later.
Anyway, as I said, I believe its easier to deliver reforms because it merely requires political will rather than to deliver good governance or development ...etc. Reforms are achievable because a top politician only needs to flex his political muscles to get it done. But, the same is not true for development and good governance or to reduce inflation ...etc. Such issues need various things to come together.
Finally, I don't know why you are assuming that I don't support NaMo. I also expect him to immediately solve the issue of inflation and save the economy, provide jobs, ...etc. But, I don't see how that stops him from acting against the corrupt and anti-national forces. Infact, I think it is easier for him to act against anti-national forces or corrupt people to score easy brownie points than to address other issues. If he acts against corrupt and anti-national forces and reforms the system, that would actually help him in delivering development promises. If he tries to deliver development without acting against corrupt, anti-national forces and reforming system, then it would be similar to swimming upstream against the flow.
You think both issues are mutually exclusive. I think both issues are mutual complimentary.
That sounds like sarcasm to me.IndraD wrote:
notice as fresh as end Jan 14, she supported NaMO
Scene 3: In September 2011, Narendra Modi, the bellicose, polarising chief minister of the western state of Gujarat (and currently the man most likely to be India's next prime minister), is given something like a ''clean chit'' by a special investigative team appointed to look into the religious violence that raged across the state in 2002, shortly after Modi took office.
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Modi has always strenuously denied critics' accusations that he had orchestrated the violence. It has now become clear that if he wants to run for prime minister in 2014, there is little to no chance the law will stop him. That's good reason to celebrate, but Modi's response is fantastically over the top: He sets up a massive, self-congratulatory three-day pageant, where politicians from the Bharatiya Janata Party and figures from public life arrive to sing his praises.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/how-in ... z2vtVchl4T
Karan M wrote:Boss you are going all over the place. In one set of posts you claim that merely being development is ABV-2 and not good enough and focus has to be on H-topics. In another, when I point out that ABV-2 is enough to begin with and must be the first focus even as other things get worked out, since that is what Indian public wants NaMo for right now, you say even that is not possible without complete disruption. When I say that is actually wrong since current state can deliver if an effective leader runs the ship, now you retract and say, hey that is possible, but I want more and it is I who thinks they can't be complimentary. Then you say you are not anti NaMo.johneeG wrote: 'Radical moves' is a wrong word, saar. There is nothing radical about solving fundamental issues. How those issues should be solved is open for debate. But to say that trying to solve such issue itself is radical is wrong thinking, IMHO.
But, I agree with you, even with all the faults, the Govts can perform. But, it also true, that the Govts are constrained by the same system just as people are constrained by the same system to tolerate leakages, corruption, inefficiency, even anti-national activities, and pander to issues that weaken the country and society. Despite such constraints, the Govts can perform better, but they cannot perform to their best. And it leaves many loopholes open to be exploited by one and all.
I agree with you that short-term solutions are needed. But, that does not mean one stops expecting long-term solutions.
See, the situation will always be like this only: short-term vs long-term. As Singha saar said, the need is to balance both long-term and short-term. But, if people say, lets just forget the long-term as long as short-term growth is delivered, it will lead to problems sooner than later.
Anyway, as I said, I believe its easier to deliver reforms because it merely requires political will rather than to deliver good governance or development ...etc. Reforms are achievable because a top politician only needs to flex his political muscles to get it done. But, the same is not true for development and good governance or to reduce inflation ...etc. Such issues need various things to come together.
Finally, I don't know why you are assuming that I don't support NaMo. I also expect him to immediately solve the issue of inflation and save the economy, provide jobs, ...etc. But, I don't see how that stops him from acting against the corrupt and anti-national forces. Infact, I think it is easier for him to act against anti-national forces or corrupt people to score easy brownie points than to address other issues. If he acts against corrupt and anti-national forces and reforms the system, that would actually help him in delivering development promises. If he tries to deliver development without acting against corrupt, anti-national forces and reforming system, then it would be similar to swimming upstream against the flow.
You think both issues are mutually exclusive. I think both issues are mutual complimentary.
I am just going by your own posts. Ever since the Telengana issue, you seem to have been blowing hot & cold on the BJP, how it alone is not good enough, ditto on NaMo. Fine, that is your prerogative. But there is a lot of logical inconsistency in your posts. This is not a personal slam by the way, I just think that the standards you expect of NaMo and the BJP are somewhat unrealistic & at odds with the challenges they face currently.
What I & most other Indians want is immediate focus on the basics - that is good governance & so forth. None of this is disruptive. In the process, I fully anticipate the state will work towards getting a lot of INC detritus out of the system. A man like NaMo did not win Gujarat 3x by being naive. The fact that he is being targeted so heavily for the past dozen years shows he is completely against the INC system.
On the other hand, if he focuses more on hardcore H-topics and going after the INC- without focusing on the basics of governance, he will get voted out and the system returns, as simple as that. The Indian mindset has to change. The day most Indians become a JohneeG and are willing to look at H issues and uncompromising on national security etc, that is the day a NaMo also gets leeway. Otherwise, expecting all this of NaMo, because a section of the voters are like that, rest are either muddled, or are yet to wake up, thats expecting too much.
Rome was not built in a day, and a guy like NaMo, will need some 12 years to even make the state halfway neutral, forget neutral, as versus being a complete INC delivery mechanism as it is today.
Typical Aussie vitriol directed against anyone who has ignored them thus far, IMO rightfully so. All too common meme of wanting to cut the brown man to size if he's perceived to be rising.vish_mulay wrote:http://www.theage.com.au/comment/how-in ... 34ml5.html
