Bharat Rakshak

kit:".India should not be spending money on Sri Lanka if it is indeed the case, rather a stick would be more appropriate..and to be inserted in the right way ..the Sethusamudram project looks like a good idea now ..."

The tyranny of geography binds SL to India, the chinese must not get a foot hold alright, but the answer is not to shoot ourselves in the foot
by destroying any possiblity of a land link between India and Sri Lanka in the future. Long term goal should be to get a friendly govt. that economically binds itself to the region. That will reduce the chances of China making further inroads. The chinese are vulnerable in the Indian ocean -- all their oil passes through shipping lanes just south of sri lanka.

SL have caught some 4 Indian fishermen again.

Here we go. Fandango.

But in a fair assessment, the Indian fishermen do stray a lot from the designated spots. And sometimes its also the big almost trawlers.

vijaykarthik wrote:SL have caught some 4 Indian fishermen again.

I am expecting the "Modi should get these folks released.. at once!!!" cry to start any time soon. And then start abusing Modi and current government if this does not happen.

how many times did UPA help in releasing these fishermen ???

How many times should the Indian govt. spend its diplomatic energy in releasing these fishermen every few weeks or months? Shouldn't there be a process in place if this all going to be inevitable? Each time this happens, the Sri Lankan govt. gets a free pass to thumb its nose at the Indian govt. if it knows that it has the Indian govt. at its mercy due to local politics.

What will it take for these fishermen to stop straying into SL territory? WTF is wrong with the tamilnadu govt. that they cannot come up with solutions to stop this kind of thing happening over and over again?
Oh I forget, what government...everyone is too busy weeping for Amma's prison stint.

Problem is multi-faceted. Something that the govt can try attempting but cant completely address.

The primary problem is that the extreme end of TN - places like Danushkodi and even other places of the Ramnad district and perhaps even a few places in Kanyakumari are quite close to the SL coast too.

Per UNCLOS, territorial waters are upto 12 nm. And the coastal state has full sovereign rights over those. And other state vessels have right of passage... as long as its continuous and expeditious... and not prejudicial to peace, good order and security of the state.

and the next 12 nm are referred to as a contiguous zone. And in this zone, coastal states enjoy rights limited to fiscal, customs, immigration and sanitary laws and regulation

However, the EEZ is about 200nm out from the baseline and the coastal state enjoys exclusive rights to natural resources [fish, oil etc]

And therein lies the rub. We are at almost SL's doorstep and they in ours. So, some problem is inevitable. But that does not mean that the problem should fester and be handled senselessly.

Besides, since its a sea, its impractical and senseless to put gates or have checkpoints to ensure that no loitering takes place. Its also been observed a lot of times that the big trawlers actually move very close to the coast of SL and then trouble happens. (But remember, mentally, in the bkgrnd that the other coast is very close too)

Its also observed that a lot of these trawlers also move beyond because the catch quality and quantity is better there. [However, qn to be asked: is that fair?]

Very difficult when one comes to think of the picture holistically. Besides, its not as if the fishermen do it to irritate SL or the Tamil govt. its his stomach and his neck... and his basic survival is brought into qn. So, its not as if he is to blame either. However, as I said earlier - all of this doesn't mean we shouldn't look for a solution. A solution is mandatory. (again asking fishermen to move away is not an option as its not going to be easy to move all those hamlets and get them into a different stream of life. Besides, we do know how good our govt is when it comes to promises of that kind and trying to implement them... or the lack of implementation)

vijaykarthik wrote:However, the EEZ is about 200nm out from the baseline and the coastal state enjoys exclusive rights to natural resources [fish, oil etc]...
And therein lies the rub. We are at almost SL's doorstep and they in ours. So, some problem is inevitable. But that does not mean that the problem should fester and be handled senselessly.

Agreed. But I feel what p-isses off Sri Lankan Govt. is the "Tamil factor". The fishermen operating in this part of Sri Lanka, are they Sinhalese or Sri Lankan Tamils? My understanding is that fishermen operating in this area are Tamils (from our own TN bretheren, and from SL side the Jaffna Tamils). This entire area used to be an LTTE infested area for quite some time. So no wonder SL forces are hyper-active in this area. When LTTE was ruling the roost here this entire area was their home ground. It was said that a simple 5W Walkie Talkie from Dhanushkodi could reach Sri Lanka (and LTTE used this).

There should now be a formal mechanism in order to deal with the fishermen issue. To be frank, I have not seen Indian Navy or Indian Coast Guard rounding up so many Sri Lankan fishermen on a regular basis. But putting pressure on Modi and his elected cabinet for these silly issues should be stopped for good. Modi's mandate was not for rescuing fishermen.

Tuvaluan wrote:How many times should the Indian govt. spend its diplomatic energy in releasing these fishermen every few weeks or months? Shouldn't there be a process in place if this all going to be inevitable? Each time this happens, the Sri Lankan govt. gets a free pass to thumb its nose at the Indian govt.

We had a local Police Inspector who operated in a very funny (& smart manner). He knew the local rowdies had back up from the "so called" clean politicians of the town. He picks up a few of them and puts them inside on some minor charge. Soon the "clean politicians" land up at the PS. So in front of too many witnesses, the Inspector would say that he is releasing the thugs just because the clean politician intervened. He puts a humble request for not getting involved (and losing their own prestige) for such silly issues. The politicians would agree. In another two weeks the Inspector would again pick up the thugs on far more serious charges. No politician with any sense of shame would try to interfere again. SL seems to be adapting the same strategy.

Many a time, the SL Tamil fishermen themselves complain to the SL navy, leading to the arrest of Indian Tamil fishermen. There were some reports in The Hindu about this a while back. Apparently, they are not happy that the Indian fishermen poach their catch having exhausted the catch on the Indian side.

The only long term solution is to equip these fishermen for deep sea fishing. If beats me as to why GoTN does not do anything about it, save bleating about SL atrocities in every letter to the PM.

After all, there is an entire ocean with our name on it

I met a senior official of Fisheries Survey of India(never knew such an organisation existed) by chance and he told GOI is doing surveys in deep sea fishing.He is from deep south TN(tuticorin) and he is not very amused by antics of our fishermen and press.According to him,indiscriminating fishing by our trawlers and high density nets has caused havoc.Given that populism is the highest religion in TN,noone knows who can bell the cat and how.

svenkat wrote:I met a senior official of Fisheries Survey of India(never knew such an organisation existed) by chance and he told GOI is doing surveys in deep sea fishing.He is from deep south TN(tuticorin) and he is not very amused by antics of our fishermen and press.According to him,indiscriminating fishing by our trawlers and high density nets has caused havoc.Given that populism is the highest religion in TN,noone knows who can bell the cat and how.

under the guise of "fishing", the EJs want unrestricted access to lankan waters and freedom of movement to further the eelam agenda. they are not keen on deep sea fishing because it does not suit their purpose.

the lankans are equally keen to prevent this and that is why they do not want to enter any sort of "fishing" agreement with the Indian fisherfolk.

The tamilnadu fisher men are pushing for direct talks with the lankan fisher folk, bypassing both governments and say that they are quite capable of convincing the lankan fisher folk not to object to their presence and also to share the lankan fish with the tamil fishermen.

There is something off putting in such logic and desire for direct local diplomacy, contravening all international laws by non state actors.

part of it could be due to the fact that lots of local fish varieties have died out

krishnan wrote:part of it could be due to the fact that lots of local fish varieties have died out

How does that impact on the inviolable sanctity of the territorial integrity of srilanka??

^^ but then, when the coastlines are almost next to each other, whose territorial integrity are we talking about? In a vague obtuse way, it can be argued that 200nm EEZ perhaps puts almost half of SL waters (and perhaps even SL land as India's if one were really motivated) and of course the alternate view point (of ours totally belonging to SL) is true too... if we took the 200nm EEZ too seriously.

Again, there has to be a measure and some common action and joint agreement. This kind of limbo where they approach it on a case by case basis is insensible, infeasible, develops a lot of bad blood and defeats the purpose.

I can think of GPS fitted boats. but then that's no guarantee to stop deliberate incursion though. Nowadays, a few of the incursions do seem deliberate too.

Why doesn't Indian CG not catch so many SL fishermen? From what I remember reading from earlier: That's mainly because they are the more poorer kind of fishermen and don't stray in so much because of lack of affordability.

Else, all things being equal, its equally likely that Indian CG will catch hold of enough SL fishermen too. Perhaps another 10-12 years and we will see more? Who knows.

vijaykarthik wrote:^^ but then, when the coastlines are almost next to each other, whose territorial integrity are we talking about? In a vague obtuse way, it can be argued that 200nm EEZ perhaps puts almost half of SL waters (and perhaps even SL land as India's if one were really motivated) and of course the alternate view point (of ours totally belonging to SL) is true too... if we took the 200nm EEZ too seriously.

Again, there has to be a measure and some common action and joint agreement. This kind of limbo where they approach it on a case by case basis is insensible, infeasible, develops a lot of bad blood and defeats the purpose.

I can think of GPS fitted boats. but then that's no guarantee to stop deliberate incursion though. Nowadays, a few of the incursions do seem deliberate too.

Why doesn't Indian CG not catch so many SL fishermen? From what I remember reading from earlier: That's mainly because they are the more poorer kind of fishermen and don't stray in so much because of lack of affordability.

Else, all things being equal, its equally likely that Indian CG will catch hold of enough SL fishermen too. Perhaps another 10-12 years and we will see more? Who knows.

suggest that you google maritime boundaries in cases like India and srilanka. The laws are crystal clear and territorial integrity is inviolable as always. No nation can be built on the lines that you even suggest or seem to have understood.

I think this clause of 200nm EEZ will not hold good for countries like India and Sri Lanka, where 200nm from a point will any way roll over into another country's border zone. So there would be alternate provisions (reduced area etc. etc.), which would not be favouring any of the countries.

Somewhat dated
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/pm-thanks-rajapaksa-for-indian-fishermen-release/article6636679.ece

Sri Lanka’s President Mahinda Rajapaksa on Wednesday said he would credit Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s “foreign policy” for Mr. Rajapaksa’s decision to release five convicted Tamil Nadu fishermen. Speaking to The Hindu in an exclusive interaction after he met PM Modi in Kathmandu, President Rajapaksa said, “Since he has come to power PM Modi has opened out to the relationship with Sri Lanka. It is his foreign policy and his outreach that led to my decision.”

When asked if he had decided to free the fishermen, rather than transferring them as sentenced prisoners to India, because he believed the fishermen were innocent, as the Indian government has maintained, Mr. Rajapaksa told The Hindu, “Absolutely not. I was absolutely sure that they were guilty, as our courts had convicted them. But I felt that our friendship with India was more important.” Mr. Rajapaksa confirmed that PM Modi had spoken to him about the conviction of the fishermen in a phone call between them. Sources had also told The Hindu that the PM had sent an emissary with a message for a pardon or release of the fishermen under the 2010 Transfer of Sentenced prisoners agreement between India and Sri Lanka.

President Rajapaksa met with Prime Minister Modi at Kathmandu’s Soaltee Hotel, where they are both staying on Wednesday evening for about half an hour.

Sources said Mr. Modi brought up the issue of maritime security, as the Indian government has been concerned about the presence of Chinese submarines in Sri Lankan and Maldivian harbours. Briefing reporters after the bilateral meeting,

Spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin announced that after Mr. Modi’s meeting with President Rajapaksa and then with Maldivian President Abdulla Yameen, that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval would travel to Colombo and Male at the end of November to take the discussions forward.

chetak wrote: suggest that you google maritime boundaries in cases like India and srilanka. The laws are crystal clear and territorial integrity is inviolable as always. No nation can be built on the lines that you even suggest or seem to have understood.

I am most curious. If you do have links, do pass on. The last time I checked, when SL did indeed submit stuff based on the Irish and / or the Hedenberg formula, the judgment was expected not before 2025. Why? That's because 41 other countries presented evidence... apart from SL.

As always, I am interesting in learning more if its relevant.

Besides: I'm curious. If the nm distance between 2 nation-states is about 20nm, what the heck is a border all about?
Do fishes have borders too. Lets try arguing that.

* I am also of the view that trawlers shouldn't move in disputed waters. However, lets try getting an 'agreement' first.

^^ and while we are at it, the experts say that its best to allow the fishermen speak about it at their level. Because, its mainly about resources. Its not got into the deeper security aspect yet.

-- and IMO, its best to allow the fishermen to speak and come to a conclusion. Have a structured communication channel and ensure that the deal gets done. Borders are one thing. Fishes another. And survival of the fishermen the most important. Looking at this from that prism is the most realistic thing.

*Trawlers are yet another beast. But try stopping it, I say. Besides, trawlers are usually run with a lot of political support and most times the owners are not even part of the fishing community. Ouch.

vijaykarthik wrote: allow the fishermen to speak and come to a conclusion. Have a structured communication channel and ensure that the deal gets done. Borders are one thing.

Do you feel that we have really reached a stage where fishermen determine the borders?? And that Indian Navy, Indian Coast Guard and Sri Lankan Navy have to take their (the fishermen) words for the country's borders?? .

naah. As I said, its not about borders really. Its about perception. Of fairness and such. So, it makes more sense to allow the guys who are hurt the most to decide. its very easy for us to sit in armchairs and moralize.

But its very difficult for the fishermen to actually take this decision lying down. Because they deal with dynamic resources. Stuff that try to escape nets.

That's all that I meant.

Besides, there is the UNCLOS for maritime dispute... [and I will jump up even before Ajit Doval if it were something against India, mind you. That much, I can assure and promise]

I still don't think its about borders. Its about perception of what's considered fair and just.

But its very difficult for the fishermen to actually take this decision lying down. Because they deal with dynamic resources. Stuff that try to escape nets.

I still don't think its about borders. Its about perception of what's considered fair and just.

IMHO, Fairness and justice does not really exist except in the delusions of people who think reality is fair and just, when it is not, which is easy to divine if you just look at reality without any prejudice.

One can empathize if the fishermen wander into SL territory by mistake but not if they do so intentionally once they are given the capability to keep out of SL territory, such as GPS enabled boats etc. or they are given sufficent warning via markings once they breach into SL territory. The consequences of breaching the SL territory is obviously having to face the SL govt's response to such breaches. The fishermen have no right to deliberately break the rules and expect the Indian govt. to rescue them over and over at the cost of erosion of India's will/leverate to deal with the SL govt., especially if fishes and sea life are a resource from the perspective of the SL govt. too.

Sri Lanka Navy rescues Indian fishermen

he Sri Lankan Navy on Saturday said its officers rescued three Indian fishermen stranded off Sri Lanka’s northern seas.

“Their boat was in distress near Madagal off Jaffna peninsula, and our team rescued them. They have been handed over to the Vaddukoddai police station,” Navy spokesperson Kosala Warnakulasuriya told The Hindu.

They were not arrested since it was a case of their boat being in distress, he said.

The hindu is not reporting any arrest.

It is time to give Modi Sarkar (and NSA Doval) some slack and free hand to work out SL strategy.

My only concern in TN public giving a free hand to Modi Sarkar is that several of advisors to Modi Sarkar such as Su Swamy and Cho and the incompetent (for most part with some exceptions) TN BJP / RSS leadership do not fully understand public sentiment and have made colossal blunder by equating SL Tamil Issue with Kashmir issue unnecessarily. Its a shame that a highly intelligent person and patriot like Su Swamy is not fully getting the SL TN issue. Provided Modi Sarkar gets some fresh perspectives in TN outside of the usual suspects, they are more than competent to deliver over the medium to long term if not in the short term. In the absence of competent and neutral observers, it would be better for Modi Sarkar to listen to multiple arguments including to contradictory voices like Vaiko and Su Swamy and formulate policies based on facts on the ground.

Regarding India fishermen from TN, can not our navy / coast guard install GPS devices on all boats that record their location with our government and release the data to public the moment any boat is caught. If TN fishermen do intentionally cross the nautical boundary when they were caught and if that is widely publicized, they will lose public support for their cause in TN. Democratising data is the short term solution here. For the long term, we need to look at collective fishing agreements between these two nations and get back fishing rights for Indian fishermen to Katchathivu.

^^ from what I have heard, the boats are fairly well equipped. There was a drive to install GPS in the boats, not sure what came of that. Going by the reports, not all the intrusions are accidental. These are experienced folks to make mistakes.

saravana wrote:^^ from what I have heard, the boats are fairly well equipped. There was a drive to install GPS in the boats, not sure what came of that. Going by the reports, not all the intrusions are accidental. These are experienced folks to make mistakes.

I am aware of it but don't think the GPS data is recorded by GoI in a real-time manner. So GoI cannot really call the bluff of fishermen that deliberately and repeatedly violate naval boundaries. Some crossing over of boundary is bound to happen given the tides and winds and what not as the fishermen chase groups of fish close to naval boundary. But repeated deep violations into SL should be called out and publicized. Publicizing this data everytime an Indian fisherman is arrested by SL will set realistic expectations amongst TN public and ensure that no vested interests can abuse the ground situation and complicate matters for government of India and also the state government.

Unfortunately this issue is overshadowing the issue of SL Tamils getting equal rights in SL.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Every Indian fishing boat has at least a portable GPS for sure. Such devices are cheap and easily available and simple to operate.

Every political party in TN is fully aware of the fact that the TN fishermen willfully cross the maritime boundary in to srilankan territory. The contrived claim of traditional fishing grounds and "rights" do not fly in the face of another nation's sovereign rights and it's inalienable, legitimate resolve to defend it's territory. It's theft of srilankan property (fish) and the hindrance of the legitimate pursuit of lankan fishermen in their rightful livelihood.

Just as our Armed Forces prevent intrusions into our territory, even to the extent of killing said intruders, so is the lankan Navy legitimately fulfilling it's bounden duty.

The concept of "hot pursuit" of fish across maritime boundaries is a new and novel concept and entirely specious .

The ICG and the IN vessels are clearly visible on the maritime boundary when the fishing vessels are fishing. The positions of these ships mark the end of the Indian boundary because the ICG and the IN do not cross the maritime boundary. How do you suggest that the GOI record the fishermen's GPS data in "real time"??

Every camera used by the lankan navy or the ICG /IN to photograph defaulting fishing vessels has Date/Time/GPS data imprinted on the image and this is required by law and this is used during the prosecution as legal evidence.

Gujarathi fishermen are very often attacked and taken away by the paki Navy who claim that they were in their waters. I do not see a single voice raised in their case. What is so special about the TN fishermen??

^Absolutely agree. I don't for a minute mean to say that its legal. Its absolutely illegal and I do think I have mentioned it earlier too. Besides, nowadays its not even hot pursuit, its one step further... going into their territory deliberately and picking fish. Which as I have mentioned earlier is plain wrong.
But again: where are the damned options?

But however, when the govt doesn't do much and when they are doing this in desperation, I am just telling that its very easy for us all to moralize in an armed chair when in practical terms, its difficult to justify a. the lack of action b. the continuing acts of fishermen in desperation.

So, net-net, its a quagmire. Driven by the govt to the wall, these guys take extreme measures.

It was sheer coincidence that I found this link yday in the papers: http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 647344.ece

There were a few more blurbs in the physical paper that I don't see in the e-edition.

Lets make no mistakes - the 'mistakes' of the fishermen nowadays... that too of the trawlers are no mistakes. They are pre-planned and deliberate... and as I did say earlier, they have major pol backing and most times aren't of the fishing caste either. I am all for a solution. Not the status quo. But I also want to mention in passing that if the govt blithely doesn't do much and just allows the same stalling techniques to go on, it will lead to more of these mistakes. Not less.

The lankan Navy will then shoot much more and talk much less. The law is entirely on their side and no one can fault them.

What ever the options being considered, it certainly cannot include theft of lankan fish, threatening the livelihood of lankan fishermen and most of all intrusion, into lankan territory by Indian citizens with larceny and theft on their minds. Indian fishermen = Indian problem, TN fishermen=TN problem.

From the Hindu report quoted above

While political parties in Tamil Nadu keep the debate over Katchatheevu — a tiny island between the countries — alive, the possibility of India retrieving the island is highly unlikely in the near future, considering that a 1974 agreement between the countries officially acknowledges it as being in the Sri Lankan territory. The governments now go by the International Maritime Boundary Line (IMBL) — that both countries agreed upon in 1976 — earmarking territorial waters, which the Indian fishermen are accused of often crossing.

Given that New Delhi seldom took a public position on the erring Tamil Nadu fishermen, Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj’s recent message, urging fishermen not to cross the IMBL, was significant. This year alone, as many as 744 Indian fishermen were caught for alleged poaching in Sri Lanka, and 156 trawlers were seized.

Chetak,
The operative word in my post is "publicize" to general TN public. TN politicians are amongst the most insincere and opportunistic and some of them have hidden agendas as well depending on who are their source of funding. So TN political leaders knowing about fishermen willfully and frequently crossing in SL waters is quite irrelevant to managing public perception. I would suggest a web portal run by coast guard that publicises the GPS location of Indian fishermen with historic data onto a map. This can be done in the name of providing them safety from natural disasters. You can bet that this data will get picked up by bloggers and mainstream media whenever a specific boat is arrested by SL navy. No TN politician can misuse the arrest.

Vijaykarthik- I understand your PoV. Would appreciate some detailed study on this matter. Any links? TIA.

The GPS data you are looking for are in lankan waters into which the IN/ICG will not venture. The TN fishermen GPS devices can be erased easily on return leaving no evidence for us. The ONLY evidence is from the lankan authorities which you and your ilk will not accept.

EVERYONE including the TN public understands the big picture. It is the violent and physical reaction of the EJs that the normal folks are very wary of. The "dravidan" EJs have every intention and reason to keep the pot boiling and anger focused on the "aryan" GOI. Fishing in one location, nuke plants in another location, eelam fires to be stoked somewhere else and so on, the list is endless........

Just because it could have some "EJ" issue, these things can't be swept under the carpet. Is it possible that Indian fishermen knowingly venturing into SL waters? Yes. That doesn't mean GoI can wash away its hands. There is so much bandwidth wasted on a useless entity called Pakistan, sending train/buses and negotiating trade. A little of it can be spent on negotiating fishing rights for Indian fishermen(many of the scarcity of fish is due to their own fault, btw).
Just repeating "China, EJ" boogeyman , so TN fishermen can screw themselves is spiting our own folks just to please someone else. And it hasn't worked and it won't work in the future.

saravana wrote:Just because it could have some "EJ" issue, these things can't be swept under the carpet. Is it possible that Indian fishermen knowingly venturing into SL waters? Yes. That doesn't mean GoI can wash away its hands. There is so much bandwidth wasted on a useless entity called Pakistan, sending train/buses and negotiating trade. A little of it can be spent on negotiating fishing rights for Indian fishermen(many of the scarcity of fish is due to their own fault, btw).
Just repeating "China, EJ" boogeyman , so TN fishermen can screw themselves is spiting our own folks just to please someone else. And it hasn't worked and it won't work in the future.

The implacable hostility of the TN politicians towards the sinhala, by paying obeisance to their tamil vote banks and to the eelam cause have generated a massive reaction in lanka and this is keeping rajapakse firmly in his seat.

This is why they have let the chinese and the pakis in, as a possible insurance against any further Indian "misadventure" and economic assistance which they should have got from the GOI is now coming from the chinese and the pakis. vaiko is even hell bent on celebrating prabhakaran's birthday and how do you think it makes the sinhala feel??

The moronic TN politician is solely to blame for this and though few may actually realize it, this is a serious and willfully precipitated national security issue. Beside this disaster, the fishermen issue is a piddly one. The orchestration of sustained opposition to the GOI policies vis a vis lanka has been done through the EJs and the head of this hidden monster is outside India as was the ltte's hidden head.

^^ All said and done, if its a TN problem, then its an Indian problem. Just like if its a NE Indian state problem, its an Indian problem. Assuming that it becomes a purely TN problem is not an argument at all. Its morally and legally indefensible. Or if one had to take your statement at its truest value:

This might be a brilliant way to solve the problem: Perhaps letting TN go from the Union of India and making it a separate country might help. And set the mother of all precedents for absolute mayhem to follow.

Also to note that I am extremely critical of the stupidity of the TN govt too. They have done nothing to neither help the public understand the mistakes or done something meaningful to solve the problem... whats more that they bent backwards to ensure that total credibility both at regional and national level has been lost by bringing in extreme straw men into the picture. [Stuff like trying to regain Katchatheevu when it was decided to relinquish it in 1976 (along with the international maritime border line) is one point. Allowing trawlers to fish in troubled contested waters is another... and several more. All this extreme politicization is becoming very insane lately]

And the current MO by trawlers seems more than a tad concerning.

vijaykarthik wrote:^^ All said and done, if its a TN problem, then its an Indian problem. Just like if its a NE Indian state problem, its an Indian problem. Assuming that it becomes a purely TN problem is not an argument at all. Its morally and legally indefensible. Or if one had to take your statement at its truest value:

This might be a brilliant way to solve the problem: Perhaps letting TN go from the Union of India and making it a separate country might help. And set the mother of all precedents for absolute mayhem to follow.

The TN politician seems to think that he can blithely dictate foreign policy to the GOI and decide who trains with the Indian Army at Chennai. They can also certainly keep their fishermen in their own waters, no??

OTOH, if they cannot control their unruly auto drivers in chennai, how are they to control their "wandering" fisherman??

Steady on vijaykarthik saar.
chetak has a point, it is partly the fault of TN politicians who are more Eelam than the SL Tamils themselves. NDA Govt must work over the heads of these parasites and directly engage with SL Govt, like how they got the fishermen released recently. It could be a big coup for the party as well, as they TN folks would differentiate(not that they don't know already, Vaiko's party or him hardly have enough votes to win one seat) between opportunistic shouters and well wishers of Indian folks. That means both Vaiko and Suswamy.
OTOH, if BalT refuses to allow Baki cricketers from playing in Mumbai he is hailed as a hero/patriot but TN politician gets the stick for trying to do the same. Not that I am in favour of it but pointing out the double standards.

@Chetak - I wonder if you checked what exactly was discussed in the 74 & 76 deals. The maritime borders were discussed and sovereign waters were discussed and drafted and dealt with. What was left out? Fishing rights. I will really appreciate if you could point me to a link where they discussed fishing rights.

And no - as Sachin mentioned there is no other rule which talks of an exception to an EEZ. Nothing that I know of. If you could show it, I will be more than happy to see them. And give my response.

http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/IndiaSr ... 80614.html

"India and Sri Lanka had concluded a maritime boundary agreement which became effective from 8 July 1974. The agreement of 1974 was followed by an exchange of letters between the then Indian Foreign Secretary Kewal Singh and his Sri Lankan counterpart, WT Jayasinghe, and a supplementary agreement was signed in 1976. The maritime boundary between the two countries was delineated in the Gulf of Mannar from the south-western edge of the Bay of Bengal to a point further down in a south-western axis up to the point where the boundaries of India, Sri Lanka and Maldives met in the Indian Ocean. As per these international instruments, both countries enjoy sovereign rights over the waters, the islands, continental shelf and sub-soil of the maritime area on their respective side of the delineated boundary. Indian fishermen and pilgrims have also been permitted access to Kachhativu island which falls on the Sri Lankan side of the maritime boundary. The 1974 and 1976 agreements have not put an explicit embargo on fishing by Indian fishermen beyond the Indian maritime zone, though the sovereign rights of Sri Lanka in its part of the zone are unquestionable."

Last words: Though I hate the tamil politicians, I don't think they might do amazing stupid stuff... of the ilk you imply... quite wrongly.

saravana wrote:Steady on vijaykarthik saar.
chetak has a point, it is partly the fault of TN politicians who are more Eelam than the SL Tamils themselves. NDA Govt must work over the heads of these parasites and directly engage with SL Govt, like how they got the fishermen released recently. It could be a big coup for the party as well, as they TN folks would differentiate(not that they don't know already, Vaiko's party or him hardly have enough votes to win one seat) between opportunistic shouters and well wishers of Indian folks. That means both Vaiko and Suswamy.
OTOH, if BalT refuses to allow Baki cricketers from playing in Mumbai he is hailed as a hero/patriot but TN politician gets the stick for trying to do the same. Not that I am in favour of it but pointing out the double standards.

He probably doesn't have a point if his fundamental point is that Indian fishermen keeping move out and such. Why? That's because there hasn't been a clear fishing rights discussed. And hence, it cant be absolutely questioned that anyone is in the wrong. Ouch. however, if his point is that the avg tamil politician is a dim-witted light bulb, I will happily agree. But then so is any politician. And that is a constant across all over the world.

Now you get why I meant its a quagmire?

And it disappoints that India doesn't have sensible politicians who actually mention the exact points that are required so the public understand.

^^ nice link. So there is no legal issues with TN fishermen venturing beyond maritime boundaries? That puts it onto a whole different light.
Then it comes back to shafting Indian fishermen for some mythical geopolitical game. Wow onlee.

Yes, at least not yet. So everything that people said on this topic of fishermen moving out is marginally questionable on those grounds. That's what I try to point out.

Well, point made.