Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 01 Dec 2014 13:41

OT/or is it on topic?

f they cannot control their unruly auto drivers in chennai,

They are trying very hard to control them.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 01 Dec 2014 13:51

Vijaykarthik
The quote below from your post raises an interesting question.
"Indian fishermen and pilgrims have also been permitted access to Kachhativu island which falls on the Sri Lankan side of the maritime boundary. The 1974 and 1976 agreements have not put an explicit embargo on fishing by Indian fishermen beyond the Indian maritime zone, though the sovereign rights of Sri Lanka in its part of the zone are unquestionable."
Fisheremen being permitted access to the island is not the same thing as being permitted to fish in waters that are sovereign territory of Sri Lanka. That there was no explicit embargo on fishing is not relevant because denial of permission automatically goes with sovereignty unless it was explicitly waived. Either the Indian Government was negligent in the drafting or the wording was deliberately kept vague (diplomatese) to help sell the deal to the tamil public in the face of Sri Lankan obduracy on the island issue and the indian Government didn't want to be seen as a bully.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 01 Dec 2014 14:18

Just checked the agreements between GoI and GoSL on UN website. The 1974 agreement is a bit vague. But 1976 agreement clearly says that EEZ of each country is demarcated as specified. (Article 5). Assuming 76 overrides 74,Indian fishermen don't have a case now.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 01 Dec 2014 15:35

Are you talking of these?

1976: http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATION ... 76_Act.pdf
1974: http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATION ... 1974BW.PDF

Is it possible that we are looking at 2 different places? I see EEZ listed as point 7. And about 200 nm listed. Ouch. Article 5 is about contiguous zones. 24 nm. These are UNCLOS rules as I mentioned yday. AFAIK, I don't remember seeing anything that changed when I chked it last. However, I haven't chked it too keenly lately and I am no competent authority.

*Note this too: Under EEZ, pt 7 starts this way:

"Provided that nothing in this sub-section shall apply in relation to fishing by a citizen of India.
(6) The Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette,-
(a) declare any area of the exclusive economic zone to be a designated area; and
(b) make such provisions as it may deem necessary with respect to,-

...
"

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 01 Dec 2014 16:00

I was referring to this:
http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATION ... 1976MB.PDF
Again this could be a wrong doc to look at.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 01 Dec 2014 16:45

nandakumar wrote:Vijaykarthik
The quote below from your post raises an interesting question.
"Indian fishermen and pilgrims have also been permitted access to Kachhativu island which falls on the Sri Lankan side of the maritime boundary. The 1974 and 1976 agreements have not put an explicit embargo on fishing by Indian fishermen beyond the Indian maritime zone, though the sovereign rights of Sri Lanka in its part of the zone are unquestionable."
Fisheremen being permitted access to the island is not the same thing as being permitted to fish in waters that are sovereign territory of Sri Lanka. That there was no explicit embargo on fishing is not relevant because denial of permission automatically goes with sovereignty unless it was explicitly waived. Either the Indian Government was negligent in the drafting or the wording was deliberately kept vague (diplomatese) to help sell the deal to the tamil public in the face of Sri Lankan obduracy on the island issue and the indian Government didn't want to be seen as a bully.

GoI made a blunder by gifting Katchathivu over which Indian fishermen used to fish for millennia - not just centuries. We cannot ask our fishermen all of a sudden to not fish it without making alternate arrangements to ensure their livelihood is not impacted. Given that Katchathivu was in a way gifted to SL, we should get fishing rights for our fishermen.

In general, gifting land is not a great way to earn good will as it is a limited resource. Gift a piece of technology, give multi billion grants, etc., but gifting islands and large land mass are not a good thing.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 01 Dec 2014 16:55

^^ The agreement to give away wasn't ratified. Technically the transaction isn't complete. The then GoI claimed since it was not ceded as it was disputed(Dont ask me if it makes sense) it need not be ratified

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 01 Dec 2014 16:56

chetak wrote:The GPS data you are looking for are in lankan waters into which the IN/ICG will not venture. The TN fishermen GPS devices can be erased easily on return leaving no evidence for us. The ONLY evidence is from the lankan authorities which you and your ilk will not accept.

It seems you did not understand my post. Let me clarify. GPS data can be made available in _real time_ via wireless link to Indian coastal guard. In real time data linkage, one does not need actual GPS device to extract the data. So this whole point of XYZ authorities is moot. That said, refraining from ad hominem attacks ("you and your ilk") increases chance of ones argument taken seriously.

chetak wrote:EVERYONE including the TN public understands the big picture. It is the violent and physical reaction of the EJs that the normal folks are very wary of. The "dravidan" EJs have every intention and reason to keep the pot boiling and anger focused on the "aryan" GOI. Fishing in one location, nuke plants in another location, eelam fires to be stoked somewhere else and so on, the list is endless........

Nothing could be far from truth. I think you do not read / write Tamil or in other way read comments on Tamil news media or interact with common folks in TN before passing strong judgments. Very very few people know it. It is almost never discussed in Tamil media or blogsphere due to lack of hard data. Even if it comes up it stops at he said vs she said.

I doubt if someone who is over obsession and fascinated with EJ work and Aryan / Dravidian theory can really understands reality as is. The problem with looking through colored glasses is that everything will look tinted and the viewer's interpretation of reality would be skewed.

The fishermen issue exists from the time Katchathivu was gifted by GoI to SL. Very little to do with EJ though some EJ elements try to fish in troubled waters. If EJ were to be such a big factor as you seem to imagine (you never fail to mention it for any topic related to TN), BJP would not have won in Kanyakumari with such a large margin. Kanyakumari is more than 50% christian and most EJ influenced district in TN.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 01 Dec 2014 17:58

http://katchatheevu.com/details-of-the-debate-and-events-taken-place-on-23-07-1974-about-the-1974-agreement-in-the-parliament/

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 01 Dec 2014 18:21

^^ That website has good information about katchatheevu issues. What a shortsighted move by Indira to cede country's land and. And GoI advices folks not to cross maritime boundary after giving away their livelihood.
Another link from that site
http://katchatheevu.com/katchatheevu-is ... evdiences/

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2014 20:31

saravana wrote:^^ The agreement to give away wasn't ratified. Technically the transaction isn't complete. The then GoI claimed since it was not ceded as it was disputed(Dont ask me if it makes sense) it need not be ratified

not everyone votes in every election. percentages are just that, mathematical percentages which bear no connection to the reality of a hard fought election and peoples feelings.

The fishermen from India have access to katchatheevu only for drying of fishing nets and not for fishing as per the terms agreed by the GOI and also agreed by the TN govt which was in power or it may be that the TN govt at that time just did not have the stones to oppose the GOI at the center. The passage in lankan territory on the way to katchatheevu has to be innocent and it cannot involve fishing or any other commercial activity

What ever it was, it is done and dusted and no court will find for India under any legal circumstances as we gave it away. Technically, it requires an act of parliament to give away Indian land but possession is also nine tenths of the law.

Just like we foolishly gave away all our advantages during the simla agreement, we also seem to have made a major mistake here. It seems to be a national failing and it may soon be repeated with bangladesh by the modi govt.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2014 20:44

schinnas wrote:
chetak wrote:The GPS data you are looking for are in lankan waters into which the IN/ICG will not venture. The TN fishermen GPS devices can be erased easily on return leaving no evidence for us. The ONLY evidence is from the lankan authorities which you and your ilk will not accept.
It seems you did not understand my post. Let me clarify. GPS data can be made available in _real time_ via wireless link to Indian coastal guard. In real time data linkage, one does not need actual GPS device to extract the data. So this whole point of XYZ authorities is moot. That said, refraining from ad hominem attacks ("you and your ilk") increases chance of ones argument taken seriously.

chetak wrote:EVERYONE including the TN public understands the big picture. It is the violent and physical reaction of the EJs that the normal folks are very wary of. The "dravidan" EJs have every intention and reason to keep the pot boiling and anger focused on the "aryan" GOI. Fishing in one location, nuke plants in another location, eelam fires to be stoked somewhere else and so on, the list is endless........
Nothing could be far from truth. I think you do not read / write Tamil or in other way read comments on Tamil news media or interact with common folks in TN before passing strong judgments. Very very few people know it. It is almost never discussed in Tamil media or blogsphere due to lack of hard data. Even if it comes up it stops at he said vs she said.

I doubt if someone who is over obsession and fascinated with EJ work and Aryan / Dravidian theory can really understands reality as is. The problem with looking through colored glasses is that everything will look tinted and the viewer's interpretation of reality would be skewed.

The fishermen issue exists from the time Katchathivu was gifted by GoI to SL. Very little to do with EJ though some EJ elements try to fish in troubled waters. If EJ were to be such a big factor as you seem to imagine (you never fail to mention it for any topic related to TN), BJP would not have won in Kanyakumari with such a large margin. Kanyakumari is more than 50% christian and most EJ influenced district in TN.

The EJs are a dominant force in TN now due to their unopposed growth. The largest chunk of EJ funding from abroad comes to TN. Even amma had to withdraw her anti conversion law because she would not have lasted otherwise.

The same EJ groups also operate in andhra and karnataka also with massive conversions already done and more in the pipe line. How do you think that george ( a malayali) has become the HOME Minister of Karnataka?? Will any other state ever allow a non state chappie to become the HM?? He stood and won from a constituency in bengaluru, kerala, that will vote to victory everytime any xtian who stands from there and he stood from this constituency for the first time and he did not even bother to campaign much at all.

The very first thing that the EJs do anywhere is gain control over the media and become news traders to benefit from controlling the narrative. This has been successfully done all over India. If you cannot see it then you must be willfully blind.

Modi was targeted internationally for over a decade because he brought in the anti conversion law in gujarat. Not for some riots that take place every day all over India.

No TN fisherman will EVER let you link his GPS data by wireless or otherwise to be recorded and used for any reason. They have many, many times refused IN/ICG escorts during their fishing forays because they want to leave no legal evidence of their illegal fishing in lankan waters while piously claiming that they NEVER cross the IMB ever.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Dec 2014 21:27

chetak wrote:The same EJ groups also operate in andhra and karnataka also with massive conversions already done and more in the pipe line. How do you think that george ( a malayali) has become the HOME Minister of Karnataka??

This is incorrect sir. K.J Geroge as per Wiki is a Malayali who migrated to Coorg during his child hood. His parents I guess settled down their as farmers (of large areas of land). He did NOT contest from Bengaluru. And the church he belongs to is not the EJ variety. How ever I guess he has his share of skeletons in the closet. Military authorities in Bangalore had claimed that a IT tech park (in which he has share) has encroached military land.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 01 Dec 2014 21:42

chetak wrote: What ever it was, it is done and dusted and no court will find for India under any legal circumstances as we gave it away. Technically, it requires an act of parliament to give away Indian land but possession is also nine tenths of the law.

Just like we foolishly gave away all our advantages during the simla agreement, we also seem to have made a major mistake here. It seems to be a national failing and it may soon be repeated with bangladesh by the modi govt.

Yes, that Island, however important it is to us, for all practical purposes belongs to SL. Now, I am beginning to understand, not support, all the hollering and fever pitch emotional acts by TN politicians because you can't expect GoI to act in your best benefits all the time. Statesmanitis is a dangerous affliction which can be prevented by parochial politicians. But at the same time such display of "stones" would make others call them anti-national and rise of Tamil nationalism and what not.
So either the current GoI negotiate some new EEZ agreement with GoSL or the fishermen have to abandon their centuries old fishing grounds.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2014 22:33

Sachin wrote:
chetak wrote:The same EJ groups also operate in andhra and karnataka also with massive conversions already done and more in the pipe line. How do you think that george ( a malayali) has become the HOME Minister of Karnataka??
This is incorrect sir. K.J Geroge as per Wiki is a Malayali who migrated to Coorg during his child hood. His parents I guess settled down their as farmers (of large areas of land). He did NOT contest from Bengaluru. And the church he belongs to is not the EJ variety. How ever I guess he has his share of skeletons in the closet. Military authorities in Bangalore had claimed that a IT tech park (in which he has share) has encroached military land.

no other state will permit this to happen. Maybe some very minor ministry but nothing like the HM will ever go to an outsider

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 01 Dec 2014 22:35

^^ There has not been a "native" CM of TN for a long time.And noone cares.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Dec 2014 22:51

Depends on what you mean by "outsider" chetak. There's plenty of senior officials and ministers with origins in one state functioning in another. Not sure what is wrong with that.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 02 Dec 2014 15:56

saravana wrote:^^ There has not been a "native" CM of TN for a long time.And noone cares.

A short while after the imposition of emergency in 1975, the karunanidhi-led DMK Government was dismissed and President's rule was imposed in TN. The President's rule operated till the emergency was lifted. Fresh assembly elections were held two months after the Parliamentary elections in june 1977. So the 1976 agreement did not have any explicit State Government approval in the sense of elected representatives governing the State.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 02 Dec 2014 16:19

saravana wrote:^^ There has not been a "native" CM of TN for a long time.And noone cares.

All CMs of TN in recent decades are native (except for MGR who was a Malayalee) in the sense that they are either Tamilians born in another state such as Jaya or whose ancestors have moved to TN centuries (or atleast multiple generations) ago such as Karuna. Except for MGR all of them would be considered native.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Dec 2014 16:26

Fair enough. I was more of the point that nobody worries about the origin of politicians in a state that is supposedly parochial.
Nandakumar, I had an opinion that MuKa had something to do with it. The time period of the agreement shows he may not have played a big role. I guess few other budhan happened during this exact time period

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 02 Dec 2014 16:39

chetak wrote: The EJs are a dominant force in TN now due to their unopposed growth. The largest chunk of EJ funding from abroad comes to TN. Even amma had to withdraw her anti conversion law because she would not have lasted otherwise.

Not correct. JJ panicked after a loss in Loksabha polls mid term and did a U-turn on _all_ major initiatives she had done till that ddate with a view to winning the next assembly elections. One of the rules she over-turned was anti-conversion law. However the biggest u-turn was abolishing animal sacrifice in temples which lost her all village support as most TN villagers have a time honored tradition of sacrificing a hen or goat to the village deity. JJ could have very easily survived anti-conversion law, but it was the abolishing of animal sacrifice that created most resistance. Since BJP / RSS folks in TN at that time had very little understanding of ground reality they probably confuse these two things. Vast percentage of TN populace did welcome (though silently) the anti-conversion law. In her usual irrational haste she did a quick u-turn on all her major decisions but did not win the election even after the u-turn. It is highly possible that some money could have changed hands or some powers could have blackmailed her (she had lot of corrupt dealings) regarding anti-conversion law, but it wasnt because of TN public's resistance to that law. I can only speculate here.

EJ do exert influence in many covert ways as they have media and educational institutions and are flush with funds. But in terms of electoral politics they are mostly a non-entity. TN muslims because they are concentrated and tend to vote en-block decide the outcome of elections in more constituencies than EJs. EJ for all their show couldn't even get Kanyakumari for INC where they were in the majority! Most Xtian priests did issue a sort of "fatwa" to vote for INC candidate which wasn't heeded by the populace as Congress did not stop the pogrom on SL Tamils by Rajapakse.

.....................
In general, the atheist / dravidian movement in TN has caused lot of havoc which has enabled EJ to expand their game at a feverish pace. It will take time to rectify with lot of field work like what Art of Living or Isha Yoga Foundation are doing. TN is where bhakti movement in India came into being and no one can erase Hinduism from there. But it is going to take lot of work to revive the cultural roots.

Opposing Tamil interests only because EJs support these causes would be counter productive and will push TN population more into EJ hands. That my friend is what I am afraid that you are doing may be without even realizing it. Legitimate grievance of SL Tamils will have sympathy in Tamil Nadu as long as SL has institutionalized linguistic and ethnic oppression. It is only natural and GoI cannot and should not ignore it. It can do so only at its own peril.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Dec 2014 18:58

schinnas wrote:Legitimate grievance of SL Tamils will have sympathy in Tamil Nadu as long as SL has institutionalized linguistic and ethnic oppression. It is only natural and GoI cannot and should not ignore it. It can do so only at its own peril.

But this sympathy cannot be time and again used to put diplomatic pressure on Sri Lanka. What may then happen is that SL would look towards the Chinese. There should be some measures taken to spread the message across that while sympathising is all fine, Indian Govt. has a much larger interest of moving the nation as a whole, not just deciding things on what TN folks feel. Looks like in the last case, SL Navy had only picked up fisher men and no "arrests" were formally made. Which is good.

And what the influence of EJs in LTTE itself, when they were going full steam ahead. My understanding is that overtly they tried to show a "secular" image, but there was lots of EJ influence. Many even had doubts on the religious identify of Prabhakaran & Co.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Dec 2014 19:09

Sachin, I think this pressure is required on GoI to sort out this historical mess. Asking fishermen to walk away from their work just because GoI made a blunder three decades back isn't good enough. Since GoI has several agenda on its plate, it would make sense to draw its attention.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Dec 2014 19:39

Our NSA on msaritime security in the IOR.

http://www.dailymirror.lk/57805/nations ... nce-expert

Nations’ teamwork needed for Indian Ocean security: Defence expert

The cooperation between nations is essential to assure the security in the Indian Ocean and to make it free from human smuggling, drug trafficking and piracy, the visiting Indian Defence expert Dr. Ajit Kumar Doval said today.

Dr. Doval is the current National Security Adviser of India. He has served in the Indian Police Service (IPS), Intelligence Bureau (IB) and many other security entities prior to his retirement in 2005 as Intelligence Bureau Director.

Delivering the keynote speech as the guest of honour of the International Maritime Conference - Galle Dialogue 2014, he said some of the East Asian countries still face many obstacles due to the lack of maritime security.

“Plights arising from human smuggling and drug trafficking has badly affected some of the countries in East Asia even today. Piracy has taken a new version today,” he said.

While congratulating Sri Lanka for eliminating terrorism from the island, thus strengthening the security of the region, he said India too had contributed much to assure the safety in the ocean.

“However, joint researches between countries, bilateral relationships and proper communication would ensure the security of the region and would also assist in the growth of the economies and development of nations,” Dr. Doval said.

The Maritime Conference Galle Dialogue 2014 was organised by the Sri Lanka Navy for the fifth consecutive year under the aegis of the Defence and Urban Development Ministry. The conference is a concept of Defence Ministry Secretary Gotabaya Rajapaksa. (Lahiru Pothmulla)
- See more at: http://www.dailymirror.lk/57805/nations ... zQyot.dpuf

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Dec 2014 19:50

Sachin wrote:
schinnas wrote:Legitimate grievance of SL Tamils will have sympathy in Tamil Nadu as long as SL has institutionalized linguistic and ethnic oppression. It is only natural and GoI cannot and should not ignore it. It can do so only at its own peril.
But this sympathy cannot be time and again used to put diplomatic pressure on Sri Lanka. What may then happen is that SL would look towards the Chinese. There should be some measures taken to spread the message across that while sympathising is all fine, Indian Govt. has a much larger interest of moving the nation as a whole, not just deciding things on what TN folks feel. Looks like in the last case, SL Navy had only picked up fisher men and no "arrests" were formally made. Which is good.

And what the influence of EJs in LTTE itself, when they were going full steam ahead. My understanding is that overtly they tried to show a "secular" image, but there was lots of EJ influence. Many even had doubts on the religious identify of Prabhakaran & Co.

Sachin:
In that case, it is in India's interests to solve the problem no? Just like Hindus are sympathetic to their fellow Hindus in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Bangladesh and have been using opportunities to highlight the death, destruction and conversion of these Hindus, the tamilians in TN seek to highlight the plight of tamilians in SL.

Even in USA, Hindu American Foundation routinely highlights the plights of the Hindus in Pakistan and BD. When I asked HAF founding fathers why they chose to be mum over the plight of Hindus in SL, they mumbled something.

EJ angle has been used for decades now to tarnish LTTE, and by that the tamilians of SL. What if they were Christians? What if they were converting to Christianity? Should it matter if Prabhakaran was a Christian, Muslim or Hindu?

These picking up fishermen here and there, is just some symptom of the long seething problems.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Dec 2014 20:00

schinnas: Amma was a giant disappointment. I was a great supporter during her heydays...remember the GO against animal sacrifices, forced Rainwater Harvesting, anti-conversion laws, en mass sacking of teacher/government officials.....she was the IG/Modi/Mamta rolled into one AMMA. She rolled back almost everything because of electoral fears and god knows what else. She had good ideas, but could not stand up for her ideas.

It is easy to blame the TN governments and the *MK goon parties, for utilizing the SL tamilians plight for their own electoral gains. But in the end, only GoI can do anything with respect to SL.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Dec 2014 20:13

SwamyG, this maybe OT: I don't think there was much murmur regarding HINDRAF as well. GoI currently thinks only about Pak and Afg Hindus.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Dec 2014 09:30

SwamyG wrote:In that case, it is in India's interests to solve the problem no? Just like Hindus are sympathetic to their fellow Hindus in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Bangladesh and have been using opportunities to highlight the death, destruction and conversion of these Hindus, the tamilians in TN seek to highlight the plight of tamilians in SL.

I have no problems in such a case. But it becomes a mess when vested interests in TN starts rabble rousing and Tantrums. At some point of time GoI should categorically say that GoI!=GoTN whose only daily task is to sort out the latest tantrums by the people from TN alone. If the TN fishermen routinely get picked up by SL, GoI cannot have a helpdesk 24/7 to get that sorted out. But what GoI can do is to perhaps ask Coast Guard to start very active patrolling, and chase the Indian fisher boats back into Indian territory. Or start joint patrols with ICG and SL Navy, again with strong focus on the border. Running across the border, and then "demanding" help after getting caught should stop at some point of time, right? Even though Indian Hindus profess live to Hindus of Pakistan and Bangladesh, do we see them running into Pakistan get caught there and they crying out for rescue?

EJ angle has been used for decades now to tarnish LTTE, and by that the tamilians of SL. What if they were Christians? What if they were converting to Christianity? Should it matter if Prabhakaran was a Christian, Muslim or Hindu?

It does not matter really. But then when EJ influence is said to be putting even development work in TN to run into problems, I don't see why an EJ backed organisation has to be defended. And in this case of TN fishermen violating international borders it is any way a different problem, where religion is immaterial. My main worry (again I don't want to go on like a broken records) is GoI forced to become a GoTN, with nothing else to do other than to bring back fishermen (who any way have no plans to stop running across the border).

These picking up fishermen here and there, is just some symptom of the long seething problems.

Where are these fishermen getting picked up from? Indian waters or from inside SL border? Or are we saying that SL should just ignore their national boundary and hand over the entire Palk straights to Indian fishermen to freak out?

saravana wrote: I don't think there was much murmur regarding HINDRAF as well. GoI currently thinks only about Pak and Afg Hindus.

To be frank, even Malaysia has a large number of Hindus who may have Tamil origins. The usual rabble rousers in TN were not very much bothered about HINDRAF as well. Their sympathies lie firmly with SL Tamils (and in many cases LTTE) only. And this is what makes me worry about the EJ influence. Rabble rousing is dependent on whom EJs feel is worth supporting.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 03 Dec 2014 09:43

Sure, the usual suspects in TN wouldnt raise their voice because it would be kommunal onlee. But GoI has some vision for overseas Hindus thankfully, so they ought to include other countries too.
Re fishermen issue, the fishing stock is depleted on our side and the traditional fishing grounds for Indian fishermen exceeded the current maritime boundary. Since GoI gifted this away it is GoI's headache to solve this.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Dec 2014 11:03

saravana wrote:Re fishermen issue, the fishing stock is depleted on our side and the traditional fishing grounds for Indian fishermen exceeded the current maritime boundary. Since GoI gifted this away it is GoI's headache to solve this.

And what happens when the fishing stock depletes in the new area as well? TN fishermen would demand that SL and its people be chucked out into the sea, and the entire area becomes an exclusive zone for TN fishermen? Strong enforcement is what is required here, IMHO. What is gifted, is gifted. I don't know how and why GoI can take back some thing which is given, unless we have some very strong (internationally valid) legal provisions in our favour. Perhaps experts here can see if we have a locus standi here

.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 03 Dec 2014 11:56

Sachin wrote:
saravana wrote:Re fishermen issue, the fishing stock is depleted on our side and the traditional fishing grounds for Indian fishermen exceeded the current maritime boundary. Since GoI gifted this away it is GoI's headache to solve this.
And what happens when the fishing stock depletes in the new area as well? TN fishermen would demand that SL and its people be chucked out into the sea, and the entire area becomes an exclusive zone for TN fishermen? Strong enforcement is what is required here, IMHO. What is gifted, is gifted. I don't know how and why GoI can take back some thing which is given, unless we have some very strong (internationally valid) legal provisions in our favour. Perhaps experts here can see if we have a locus standi here .

All this talk on legality and locus standi doesn't mean much and informed people will just laugh at it. At end of the day all that matters is what we are ready to do in diplomacy and power projection. What was gifted to SL, can be made to be gifted back if there is a will.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 03 Dec 2014 12:03

Does anyone have an idea as to who the new SL president can likely be? Looks like Ajit Doval has gone and met Wickramasinghe and also talked with other oppsn leaders quickly. Hehe. Lovely.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/partl ... sis-629202

In the meanwhile. Damn. The Chinese at it again. Reckon we need to start moving closer towards Tibet, SCS, ECS everywhere and claim that all issues have to be discussed in a bilateral manner and get stuff done.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Dec 2014 13:40

schinnas wrote:All this talk on legality and locus standi doesn't mean much and informed people will just laugh at it. At end of the day all that matters is what we are ready to do in diplomacy and power projection. What was gifted to SL, can be made to be gifted back if there is a will.

At the moment what I am seeing is that GoI is not laughing but using every means to beg, borrow or steal these belligerent fishermen from SL. To me, it looks a lot of diplomatic effort going waste. And from what I see in this forum looks like for TN fishermen they have pretty much made up their minds to cross the international boundary when ever they feel like it. Off course, the moment they get caught time to holler at the top of their voice

.

Nothing more to add. But of GoI is planning to take up the case, let it be not in such a way that India as a nation loses, and (only) TN's tantrum throwers wins the game. At the moment Modi and his government working over time on this issue, I don't think would bring in tangible benefits to BJP in TN. At the best they would remain curry leaves (use and throw), where some others bask in the glory.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Dec 2014 14:07

Sachin wrote:
schinnas wrote:All this talk on legality and locus standi doesn't mean much and informed people will just laugh at it. At end of the day all that matters is what we are ready to do in diplomacy and power projection. What was gifted to SL, can be made to be gifted back if there is a will.
At the moment what I am seeing is that GoI is not laughing but using every means to beg, borrow or steal these belligerent fishermen from SL. To me, it looks a lot of diplomatic effort going waste. And from what I see in this forum looks like for TN fishermen they have pretty much made up their minds to cross the international boundary when ever they feel like it. Off course, the moment they get caught time to holler at the top of their voice .

Nothing more to add. But of GoI is planning to take up the case, let it be not in such a way that India as a nation loses, and (only) TN's tantrum throwers wins the game. At the moment Modi and his government working over time on this issue, I don't think would bring in tangible benefits to BJP in TN. At the best they would remain curry leaves (use and throw), where some others bask in the glory.

The local jokers, MDMK and PMK, are reaping the momentary benefits by making the BJP and NaMo do the heavy lifting. This is at best a short term mug's game. There is bound to be a blow back from the BJP. vaiko and ramadoss have realized that there will never be a cabinet/ministerial berth with their name on it. They were really expecting free lunches from the BJP in return for an alliance with their discredited, opportunistic parties.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 07 Dec 2014 10:18

Mahinda Rajapakshe's lead withering per FT. Winds of change?

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 08 Dec 2014 20:08

CBI approaches Interpol in Rajiv Gandhi case, wants to wrap up probe

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Dec 2014 20:18

vaiko the disgraceful, has ditched the NDA. Good riddance onlee

MDMK chief Vaiko walks out of NDA, says PM Modi betrayed Tamils

The MDMK joined the six-party grand alliance led by BJP in Tamil Nadu ahead of May Lok Sabha elections. Though the party contested seven seats out of 39, it could not win any. BJP and PMK, another partner of the NDA alliance, managed to win a seat each.

Vaiko has been critical of the Modi-led government in the last few months and Modi greeting Lankan President Rajapaksa at the SAARC meeting further widened the cracks. There were criticism by BJP leaders against Vaiko, with H Raja saying Vaiko was free to remain or leave the alliance.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 09 Dec 2014 13:40

Good riddance. Any local TN based party who does not want to have a good diplomatic relationship with SL needs to be sidelined. Genuine issues of every state and its people should be addressed. But this "I am more Tamil, than you" kind of outfits in TN have to be leashed in. In the long term they would only bring in more harm to the nation and Tamils themselves.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 09 Dec 2014 13:53

Though it is better that he quit the alliance. He has to realise that backing into shrill maximalist positions with no compromise route wouldn't lead him anywhere.
At the same time it needs to be said that he campaigned for the NDA alliance with heart and soul. He and Vijayakanth may not have won seats but their contributions to fledgling NDA in TN are unquestionable

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Dec 2014 14:22

The defection of two Tamil plantation leaders/Dy. minis to the Opposition is a significant development in the coming pres. election war between Rajapakse & Family,and the combined Opposition. Even though a key functionary of the Opposition has defected the other way,to the Rajapakse clan, Rajapakse is running so scared that he was visiting Tirupati to seek the Lord's blessings ...and this was the result!

It is highly hypocritical of the Lankan pres. to espouse his Sinhala Buddhist identity,sponsor ultra-right wing Buddhist fanatics,responsible for walloping the Muslims recently,and then run to India,who have been treated shabbily vis-a-vis China,seeking divine intervention for victory from India's most popular temple and its diety! I am sure that the Lankan polity will be watching this act closely. Hypocrisy was also evident v. recently by the Maldivian govt.,who were rescued decades ago by Rajiv G ,who squashed the coup by Lankan Tamil militants,only to have the airport contract with GMR dumped unceremoniously in favour of the Chinese. They are now going to build a bridge between the airport and Male mainland.But who was called in desperation when there was an acute water shortage? Why India of course! And so we get suckered time and time again. The GOI should've demanded cancellation of the bridge contract in favour of an Indian co.,and a ban on all visits by Chinese naval/military vessels,aircraft,etc. It's past time for Sushma to play hard ball with some of our neighbours who wish to emulate Brutus,Cassius and co.