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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 09:42
by abhishek_sharma
Why is al Qaeda keeping quiet about the Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions?

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... _for_words

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 10:07
by abhishek_sharma
Obama shuns the Security Council over Israel's settlements policy

http://bosco.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... ty_council

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 10:15
by abhishek_sharma
The future of the (de)stabilizing Israel-Egypt peace treaty

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... ace_treaty

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 10:50
by Karna_A
pandyan wrote:Bahrain protesters camp overnight to demand change
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_bahrain

Looks like Bahrain/UAE is in the queue
Bahrain is the most watched for in all this
(a) Its majority Shiite like Iran/Iraq, but Shiites are kept in poverty. Indian shiites travelling to Bahrain are not granted visas.
(b) Its ruled by Sunnis
(c) It has a land-sea bridge to KSA. KSA sheikhs drive to Bahrain on weekends for recreation not available in KSA.
(d) Most of eastern KSA oil fields have Shia majority or significant shia population
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi'a_Isla ... udi_Arabia
(e) US Fifth fleet anchors at Bahrain.

Shiite revolt in Bahrain could lead to a wider Shia Sunni conflict all over ME.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 11:16
by Philip
Bahrain was meant to be the "escape" destination for Saudis whose licentious and debauched ways could not take place within the boundaries of the kingdom.Thus a highway in the sea was built by a well-known Dutch construction company called Ballast Nedam.The super-perfect highway was meant for the Saudis to drive their sports cars at high speed into the equivalent of a wild west boom town where booze and broads and other dubious activities could be enjoyed to their hearts content.The Dutch company's relations were so good with the Saudis that British Aerospace bought them out mainly for their contacts with the Saudi monarchy,in order to win an infamous mega defence deal including sales of Tornado multi-role aircraft ,etc.,allegedlyinvolving Mark Thatcher.

Bahrain is actually a famous historic site archaeologically speaking,which includes vast graveyards covering a large part of the nation,of a civilisation of which little is known,but appears to be very ancient with links to the Sumerians and Mesopotamians.Building upon ancient graveyards is considered in our country at least and in many other parts of the world by the superstitious a clear "no-no" and a recipe for disaster! Will modern Bahrain thus return to its former status and become a 21st century "graveyard" for despotic Islamic monarchies? Wath this space!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html

Bahrain: protesters threaten Egypt-style permanent demonstration
Protesters in the key Gulf state of Bahrain last night threatened to keep up a permanent Egypt-style demonstration in the capital until demands for the government to be sacked were met.
By Richard Spencer, and Alex Spillius in Washington 8:00PM GMT 15 Feb 2011
As calls for democracy continued to spill across the Middle East from Tunisia and Egypt, the King of Bahrain was forced to make a rare implicit apology for the behaviour of his security forces.

Two young protesters have been killed by police in the last two days - the second yesterday outside the hospital where 10,000 people gathered as the body of the first was being taken away for his funeral.

"We extend our condolences to the parents of the dear sons who died yesterday and today," King Hamad said in a broadcast address. He promised an investigation headed by the deputy prime minister and said democratic reforms would continue.

But his words failed to assuage the protesters, who gathered on Pearl Square, a vast traffic concourse in the capital, Manama, renaming it "Bahrain's Tahrir Square" after the epicentre of protests in Egypt.

Mohammed al-Maskati, head of the Bahrain Youth Centre for Human Rights, said the demonstrators were demanding the replacement of the prime minister, Sheikh Khalifa bin Salman Al Khalifa, an uncle of the king who has held the post for 40 years, with an elected politician.

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Bahrain: protesters killed in clashes with police 15 Feb 2011
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They also wanted a new constitution, improved living conditions, and an end to human rights violations.

"The leaders of these protests are the youth – they are not connected to any political parties," he said. "We will press on until the government makes concessions."

Bahrain has introduced elections in the last 15 years but Shia parties have never gained an absolute majority in the lower house despite making up the large majority of the population. In any case, power lies with the government, appointed by the royal family, which is Sunni.

The United States will be watching events nervously – Bahrain is a key ally and home to the US Fifth Fleet. On the other hand, US and other western diplomats say there is little to support claims by the royal family that opposition is stirred up by Iran's Shia Islamic Republic.

In Iran itself, the authorities hit back yesterday at opposition leaders who backed Monday's protests in Tehran and other major cities which were broken up by police with two deaths.

The government claimed that the deaths were caused by the protesters, which was strongly denied by opposition websites.

But members of the country's parliament held an extraordinary demonstration of their own inside the chamber, demanding the execution of Mirhossein Moussavi and Mehdi Karroubi, the two defeated candidates in 2009's disputed presidential election.

"The parliament condemns the Zionists, American, antirevolutionary and antinational action of the misled seditionists," Ali Larijani, the conservative parliamentary speaker said as MPs shook their fists in unison and chanted 'Death to Moussavi and Karroubi'.

"How did these gentlemen fall into the orchestrated trap of America?" he said.

In Washington, President Barack Obama urged Middle Eastern regimes facing protests to refrain from using "violence and coercion".

At a news conference, he referred obliquely to events in both Bahrain and Iran, condemning the latter directly for its treatment of the protesters.

"We have sent a strong message to our allies to look at Egypt's example rather than Iran's example," he said. "You can't maintain power through coercion. At some level in any society there has to be consent."

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 11:42
by shyamd
Bahrain situation is being exaggerated a bit. Mainly shia protesting and most work in the govt. Yesterday was actually a holiday, so it will be interesting if they come out in force today. Friday will be more interesting.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 13:04
by RajeshA
Bahrain seems to be a warning shot by the Iranians across the bow of the Americans. They seem to be telling the Americans to desist from instigating an Egypt-style revolution in Iran, otherwise America's 5th Fleet would feel very uncomfortable, should the Sunni ruler be deposed!

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 14:00
by abhischekcc


Egypt: The Distance Between Enthusiasm and Reality</a> is republished with permission of STRATFOR.


By George Friedman

On Feb. 11, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak resigned. A military council was named to govern in his place. On Feb. 11-12, the crowds that had gathered in Tahrir Square celebrated Mubarak’s fall and the triumph of democracy in Egypt. On Feb. 13, the military council abolished the constitution and dissolved parliament, promising a new constitution to be ratified by a referendum and stating that the military would rule for six months, or until the military decides it’s ready to hold parliamentary and presidential elections.

What we see is that while Mubarak is gone, the military regime in which he served has dramatically increased its power. This isn’t incompatible with democratic reform. Organizing elections, political parties and candidates is not something that can be done quickly. If the military is sincere in its intentions, it will have to do these things. The problem is that if the military is insincere it will do exactly the same things. Six months is a long time, passions can subside and promises can be forgotten.

At this point, we simply don’t know what will happen. We do know what has happened. Mubarak is out of office, the military regime remains intact and it is stronger than ever. This is not surprising, given what STRATFOR has said about recent events in Egypt, but the reality of what has happened in the last 72 hours and the interpretation that much of the world has placed on it are startlingly different. Power rests with the regime, not with the crowds. In our view, the crowds never had nearly as much power as many have claimed.

Certainly, there was a large crowd concentrated in a square in Cairo, and there were demonstrations in other cities. But the crowd was limited. It never got to be more than 300,000 people or so in Tahrir Square, and while that’s a lot of people, it is nothing like the crowds that turned out during the 1989 risings in Eastern Europe or the 1979 revolution in Iran. Those were massive social convulsions in which millions came out onto the streets. The crowd in Cairo never swelled to the point that it involved a substantial portion of the city.

In a genuine revolution, the police and military cannot contain the crowds. In Egypt, the military chose not to confront the demonstrators, not because the military itself was split, but because it agreed with the demonstrators’ core demand: getting rid of Mubarak. And since the military was the essence of the Egyptian regime, it is odd to consider this a revolution.


Mubarak and the Regime

The crowd in Cairo, as telegenic as it was, was the backdrop to the drama, not the main feature. The main drama began months ago when it became apparent that Mubarak intended to make his reform-minded 47-year-old son, Gamal, lacking in military service, president of Egypt. This represented a direct challenge to the regime. In a way, Mubarak was the one trying to overthrow the regime.

The Egyptian regime was founded in a coup led by Col. Gamal Abdel Nasser and modeled after that of Kemal Ataturk of Turkey, basing it on the military. It was intended to be a secular regime with democratic elements, but it would be guaranteed and ultimately controlled by the military. Nasser believed that the military was the most modern and progressive element of Egyptian society and that it had to be given the responsibility and power to modernize Egypt.

While Nasser took off his uniform, the military remained the bulwark of the regime. Each successive president of Egypt, Anwar Sadat and Hosni Mubarak, while formally elected in elections of varying dubiousness, was an officer in the Egyptian military who had removed his uniform when he entered political life.

Mubarak’s decision to name his son represented a direct challenge to the Egyptian regime. Gamal Mubarak was not a career military officer, nor was he linked to the military’s high command, which had been the real power in the regime. Mubarak’s desire to have his son succeed him appalled and enraged the Egyptian military, the defender of the regime. If he were to be appointed, then the military regime would be replaced by, in essence, a hereditary monarchy — what had ruled Egypt before the military. Large segments of the military had been maneuvering to block Mubarak’s ambitions and, with increasing intensity, wanted to see Mubarak step down in order to pave the way for an orderly succession using the elections scheduled for September, elections designed to affirm the regime by selecting a figure acceptable to the senior military men. Mubarak’s insistence on Gamal and his unwillingness to step down created a crisis for the regime. The military feared the regime could not survive Mubarak’s ambitions.

This is the key point to understand. There is a critical distinction between the regime and Hosni Mubarak. The regime consisted — and consists — of complex institutions centered on the military but also including the civilian bureaucracy controlled by the military. Hosni Mubarak was the leader of the regime, successor to Nasser and Sadat, who over time came to distinguish his interests from those of the regime. He was increasingly seen as a threat to the regime, and the regime turned on him.

The demonstrators never called for the downfall of the regime. They demanded that Mubarak step aside. This was the same demand that was being made by many if not most officers in the military months before the crowds gathered in the streets. The military did not like the spectacle of the crowds, which is not the way the military likes to handle political matters. At the same time, paradoxically, the military welcomed the demonstrations, since they created a crisis that put the question of Mubarak’s future on the table. They gave the military an opportunity to save the regime and preserve its own interests.

The Egyptian military is opaque. It isn’t clear who was reluctant to act and who was eager. We would guess that the people who now make up the ruling military council were reluctant to act. They were of the same generation as Hosni Mubarak, owed their careers to him and were his friends. Younger officers, who had joined the military after 1973 and had trained with the Americans rather than the Soviets, were the likely agitators for blocking Mubarak’s selection of Gamal as his heir, but there were also senior officers publicly expressing reservations. Who was on what side is a guess. What is known is that many in the military opposed Gamal, would not push the issue to a coup, and then staged a coup designed to save the regime after the demonstrations in Cairo were under way.

That is the point. What happened was not a revolution. The demonstrators never brought down Mubarak, let alone the regime. What happened was a military coup that used the cover of protests to force Mubarak out of office in order to preserve the regime. When it became clear Feb. 10 that Mubarak would not voluntarily step down, the military staged what amounted to a coup to force his resignation. Once he was forced out of office, the military took over the existing regime by creating a military council and taking control of critical ministries. The regime was always centered on the military. What happened on Feb. 11 was that the military took direct control.

Again, as a guess, the older officers, friends of Mubarak, found themselves under pressure from other officers and the United States to act. They finally did, taking the major positions for themselves. The demonstrations were the backdrop for this drama and the justification for the military’s actions, but they were not a revolution in the streets. It was a military coup designed to preserve a military-dominated regime. And that was what the crowds were demanding as well.


Coup and Revolution

We now face the question of whether the coup will turn into a revolution. The demonstrators demanded — and the military has agreed to hold — genuinely democratic elections and to stop repression. It is not clear that the new leaders mean what they have said or were simply saying it to get the crowds to go home. But there are deeper problems in the democratization of Egypt. First, Mubarak’s repression had wrecked civil society. The formation of coherent political parties able to find and run candidates will take a while. Second, the military is deeply enmeshed in running the country. Backing them out of that position, with the best will in the world, will require time. The military bought time Feb. 13, but it is not clear that six months is enough time, and it is not clear that, in the end, the military will want to leave the position it has held for more than half a century.

Of course, there is the feeling, as there was in 2009 with the Tehran demonstrations, that something unheard of has taken place, as U.S. President Barack Obama has implied. It is said to have something to do with Twitter and Facebook. We should recall that, in our time, genuine revolutions that destroyed regimes took place in 1989 and 1979, the latter even before there were PCs. Indeed, such revolutions go back to the 18th century. None of them required smartphones, and all of them were more thorough and profound than what has happened in Egypt so far. This revolution will not be “Twitterized.” The largest number of protesters arrived in Tahrir Square after the Internet was completely shut down.

The new government has promised to honor all foreign commitments, which obviously include the most controversial one in Egypt, the treaty with Israel. During the celebrations the evening of Feb. 11 and morning of Feb. 12, the two chants were about democracy and Palestine. While the regime committed itself to maintaining the treaty with Israel, the crowds in the square seemed to have other thoughts, not yet clearly defined. But then, it is not clear that the demonstrators in the square represent the wishes of 80 million Egyptians. For all the chatter about the Egyptian people demanding democracy, the fact is that hardly anyone participated in the demonstrations, relative to the number of Egyptians there are, and no one really knows how the Egyptian people would vote on this issue.

The Egyptian government is hardly in a position to confront Israel, even if it wanted to. The Egyptian army has mostly American equipment and cannot function if the Americans don’t provide spare parts or contractors to maintain that equipment. There is no Soviet Union vying to replace the United States today. Re-equipping and training a military the size of Egypt’s is measured in decades, not weeks. Egypt is not going to war any time soon. But then the new rulers have declared that all prior treaties — such as with Israel — will remain in effect.


What Was Achieved?

Therefore, we face this reality. The Egyptian regime is still there, still controlled by old generals. They are committed to the same foreign policy as the man they forced out of office. They have promised democracy, but it is not clear that they mean it. If they mean it, it is not clear how they would do it, certainly not in a timeframe of a few months. Indeed, this means that the crowds may re-emerge demanding more rapid democratization, depending on who organized the crowds in the first place and what their intentions are now.

It is not that nothing happened in Egypt, and it is not that it isn’t important. It is simply that what happened was not what the media portrayed but a much more complex process, most of it not viewable on TV. Certainly, there was nothing unprecedented in what was achieved or how it was achieved. It is not even clear what was achieved. Nor is it clear that anything that has happened changes Egyptian foreign or domestic policy. It is not even clear that those policies could be changed in practical terms regardless of intent.

The week began with an old soldier running Egypt. It ended with different old soldiers running Egypt with even more formal power than Mubarak had. This has caused worldwide shock and awe. We were killjoys in 2009, when we said the Iranian revolution wasn’t going anywhere. We do not want to be killjoys now, since everyone is so excited and happy. But we should point out that, in spite of the crowds, nothing much has really happened yet in Egypt. It doesn’t mean that it won’t, but it hasn’t yet.

An 82-year-old man has been thrown out of office, and his son will not be president. The constitution and parliament are gone and a military junta is in charge. The rest is speculation.


Read more: Egypt: The Distance Between Enthusiasm and Reality | STRATFOR

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 15:05
by shyamd
IOL Says, Mossad and AMAN (israeli mili intel) totally failed to predict situation.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 22:36
by SwamyG
Image
Newsweek has good stories/opinion on Egypt. Here is one, find the others :-)

The Facebook Freedom Fighter. This one reads like a political thrillers. Seriously. Lot of things can be learned by people who want to influence and create social changes :-) For example
Ghonim’s interactive style, combined with the page’s carefully calibrated posts—emotional, apolitical, and broad in their appeal—quickly turned it into one of Egypt’s largest activist sites.
Those 3 are very important to capture the imagination of young people in any part of the World. Ahem ahem political party, are you reading ?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 22:56
by ramana
SwamyG, The Romanian revolution also had US based expatriates fuelling it. I see a redux here.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 23:07
by Rony
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=263369

Hamas chief declares: U.S. empire will fall
Hails Middle East revolution, predicts rise of China, India
The U.S. empire is in decline and will fall because of the country's "immorality," promotion of "open sexuality" and political "injustice," argued Mahmoud al-Zahar, the chief of Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

He also predicted the rise of China and India as new superpowers, while hailing the revolution in Egypt that led to the resignation of President Hosni Mubarak, a staunch U.S. ally.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 16 Feb 2011 23:12
by SwamyG
^^^
Political injustice? And then he says China will rise, huh? Stupid guy. If Ameereeca falls it will be because of economics and military strength.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 00:27
by shyamd
All action in Bahrain. lking Hamad says he'll deal with anti govt protestors without violence.

Meanwhile a pro govt rally kicked off at the national stadium with 15,000 attending. Shia people attended here too.

While Mohammed bin fahd (eastern province) governor in KSA is watching closely, KSA has forces on alert on their side.

Source says worst comes to worst they will mobilise National Guard, BDF and NSA, police etc who are 99% sunni. Shia's were kicked out after an attempted coup.
But they are strong in other ministries.

Bahrain will stay under control, its too difficult for them. Friday will have both pro and anti govt protestors having big show as its also a public holiday after friday prayers.

I feel there will be some clashes amongst protestors and things gettin outta hand.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 00:40
by ramana
Bahrain seems ot be an eiltemen protest. Its not sectarian unless its made out to be. The King is wise to treat it as a civil call for reforms.

Interesting Fahd is on alert. For that is the area to watch. Again if they deal with it matruely by opening up it will diffuse in KSA too.

Iran -Iraq war showed that there is a nascent nationalism and identification with the state which transended sectarian pulls.

The latter mainfested after US got Iraq de-Baathified.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 00:52
by shyamd
Ramanaji, KSA is quite different. High unemployment, cost of living up, rents sky high, women can't really work so can't contribute. Men actually want their wives to work but are shackled.
KSA now have access to more media and frequently travel to other states like UAE and Bahrain and they see the rights, life they have in the other GCC states. They calculated that they need to generate 4 million jobs.

Due to high youth unemployment they are worried these kids can't get married as its very very expensive, they can't get jobs, so what's gonna happen? Its gonna result in riots etc.

These guys have an enormous task on their hands. So reforms is the only way, King A has to tell his scholars all of a sudden that its okay for men and women to work together freely.

Expect some instability here. If the Saudi's don't get their acts together there is gonna be serious trouble. You know King abdullah sent their youths abroad to get uni education, most don't want to stay abroad for many reasons. There are a million orso students getting educated in King A's education program, when they come back imagine what's gonna happen if they can't get a job.

So saudi's are accelerating the saudisation drive, the govt encourages higher wages, but firms can't pay for this and have low productivity.

Bahrain is different because they have low unemployment. Even shia are employed. Small country, easy to distribute resources.
Yes, the King is dealing with this as a law and order issue, he's smart he told the saudi's he doesn't want force to be used. Shows you attitude differences as well on how to deal with a situation.

The royals are not stupid, see how they handle issues. Take Mabhouh murder issue, MbR and Al Nahyans handled that with skill.

Watch CP of Bahrain, he's smart too.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 01:06
by ramana
Yeah a key factor is educated unemployed male youth. This was the common factor in Tunisia (free education till graduation if you pass the govt entrance exam), Egypt, Algeria et al.

Twitter/Witter are all US taking credit for riding the surf wave.

Its the wave stupid not the surfer!

I only hope the ulema don't pass any silly fatwas as *feeding etc like they did in Egypt.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 10:25
by abhishek_sharma
Israeli FM says Iran sending 2 warships to Suez Canal; Egypt denies claim

http://www.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... Canal.html

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 10:48
by abhishek_sharma
What Egypt learned from students who overthrew Milosevic

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... volution_u

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 12:01
by abhishek_sharma
Egypt’s revolution: The 5 big takeaways

By David Rothkopf (Foreign Policy Magazine)

http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... _takeaways
While it is too early to assess the long-term outcomes of the uprising in Egypt, there are nonetheless a number of important conclusions to which we can reasonably come.

First, something profound has changed. It did not change because of the uprising in Tahrir Square. It changed and the uprising was the result; the power has shifted in the region. We have passed a generational and technological tipping point. While the dinosaurs cling to the levers of power in virtually every country in the greater Middle East, the under 30 majority is now the great force to be reckoned with.

...


That is the second inescapable conclusion we need to consider. The great challenges before this under-30 majority are economic, they are about opportunity. They are not about Israel or battles between Shiites and Sunnis or tribal divisions.

...

A third conclusion is related to the second, however. The role for the U.S. government in all this is very, very limited.

...

A fourth conclusion is that the hardest part is clearly still ahead of us. Egypt must make the transition to democracy and that means the military must really step aside after six months. Friends of mine who have met with them believe they understand the implications of the political earthquake that has taken place during the past month and that they will do so.

...

Finally, my fifth conclusion is that of all the big challenges ahead for U.S. foreign policy associated with this period of upheaval, the greatest by far lies with Israel and the Palestinians. Personally, I am not sure why the Palestinians have not yet unilaterally declared independence. The world would surely support them. But imagine what would happen if, perhaps on the road to such a declaration perhaps following it, a hundred thousand Palestinians took to the streets peacefully demanding real self-determination. With memories of Tahrir Square fresh in the minds of the world, how could the Israelis respond as they might have in the past? On what side of history would they appear to be as President Obama might put it? And in that vein, on what side of that history would President Obama and the United States want to be?

Until now, the fact that Israel was the region's only democracy was its "get out of jail free" card. It was used to excuse ... or attempt to excuse ... a multitude of sins. For this reason, no Arab military offensive could be as effective in undermining Israel's strategic advantages as real democracy taking root elsewhere in the region. The Netanyahu administration would be flummoxed if people power came to the West Bank and Gaza. They would be cast involuntarily with the dinosaurs. They would have no pages in their playbook indicating how to handle this. They would have very few good choices.

...

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 13:33
by shyamd
Bahrain kicked off. 3 more people died last night. The anti govt protestors had camped on the famous pearl roundabout.
At about 3am, police showed up with tear gas and cleared them out. Cars were towed as they had parked illegally and were causing huge traffic jams.
3 fatalities confirmed. The reason why the govt are doing this is because these is a protest taking place without clearance from the relevant ministries.

So King Hamad is dealing with this issue as a law and order issue. The pro govt protestors were largely sunni and elite shi'ite families.

Anyway, some people said BDF was deployed, but source confirms to me that BDF army is not deployed, the national guard would be deployed first. 4 tanks were seen by witnesses, I can specuate that this was national guard.

The shia protestors are being led by a person who is wanted by interpol. These 3 deaths are going to cause more problems now. Tomorrow will be big.

These NSA has long said that many of the shia people received training from hezbollah in lebanon, iraq and iran. The MoIS of iran has trained these guys in civil disobedience movements. The shia side is pretty well organised and they even have their own makeshift media centre.
Anyone interested in iranian intel activity can read my past posts on the subject.

Added later: apparently a report will be released that wil state that last night raid by police was pre-emption. Apparently source says that intel came in that somethin big was planned. Just a tiny force of the BDF has been deployed with humvees and guns in a show of force.

Update: confirmation of tanks, APC's and trucks full of troops sighted. I presume this is from the BDF and in preparation for tomorrow. Its probably to prevent any major clashes breaking out between pro and anti govt protestors.
If I was Iran, I would try and cause some trouble tomorrow, some clashes. Increases hatred. Just like ISI designs in desh.

Update: another source confirms National Guard is deployed to guard national infrastructure. He says BDF is not deployed.
The deployment of national guard in anticipation of any iranian backed activity to damage critical national infrastructure. There are youth who have received this training.
Bahrain has been preparing for this for a while so I expect them to deal with this effectively. Some level of prudence also.

Folks please read: http://www.debka.com/article/20677/

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 16:06
by shyamd
As expected leaders are worried that the shia groups are trying to take advantage of situation. So National Guard is deployed to prevent clashes breaking out tomorrow. Tomorrows pro-govt protests are called off by the leaders, to prevent any clashes.

Update: Source says the anti govt protestors were divided into 2. One's that are iranian backed and have been planning for a while, but the other half were interested in doing major civil disobedience movement NOW, as supposed to long term planners who would rather do this when there is an Iranian-US conflict.

Ministry of Interior is giving a briefing. Foreign minister will speak shortly.

Update: GCC foreign ministers have landed in Bahrain for emergency meeting on the situation in Bahrain.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 20:49
by Christopher Sidor
The Egyptian situation is still in a flux. But to see a truly Egyptian democracy would still be a pipe dream. In fact the most close analogy would be the Paki situation, where the Egyptian Army still calling the shots from behind with a fig leaf of democracy masking its true power. So what Egyptian protesters would have managed to do is to exchange one despot for a cabal of despotic generals. The more the things appear to change the more they remain the same.

Just as Musharaaf became a liability for the yanks, once he was no longer in command of the situation, Mubarak also became less appealing to the yanks once he lost the command of the Egyptian bazaar. Musharaafs loss of power did not coincide with the loss of american influence in Pakistan. In fact barring a lurch to an Islamic theocracy we can be sure of one fact, the core US interests in Egypt will be protected.

So the million dollar question is will Egypt go the Iranian way or not?
Let me digress a bit and go back into history. The Russia Tsar abdicated in March-1917. On 14-Sept-1917 the State Duma of the Russian empire was dissolved and Russian republic proclaimed in its place. Please note that the empire was dissolved and a republic took its place.
It was this Russian republic which was overthrown in the October-1917 revolution by the Bolsheviks. So strictly speaking the Bolsheviks actually overthrew the Russian Republic and not the imperial Russian empire. The empire had been dead for about 8 months already prior to the red revolution or the October revolution. It was this overthrow of the republic using force which would set the stage for the Russian civil war and the invasion of Russia by British-French-Japanese and others.

In Iran something similar happened. The shah abdicated on 16-Jan-1979. The then PM of Iran called for fresh elections and invited Khomeini back to Iran. Khomeini returned back to Iran on 1-Feb-1979, Approximately two weeks after the Iran had ceased to be a monarchy and the despotic Shah had left Iran. On 11-Feb-1979, 4 weeks after Shahs Abdication, Khomeini appointed his own government, which would eventually overthrow the provisional government of Iran. So here also Khomeini did not overthrow the Shah, strictly speaking, rather he overthrew the post-shah government. It is instructive to note that Khomeini did not return to Iran till Shah had left Iran for a "vacation" after his abdication. And Shah was forced to abdicate because of Khomeini and other leftist voices of Iran protested his callous attitude. But the popular narrative is that the islamist overthrew the Shah. Rather it was a wide spectrum of Iranian society, including and not limited to Islamist, which overthrew the shah.

Coming back to the present, mubarak is out. A provisional government has been installed in its place. So will this provisional government be able to usher in true democracy or will it see itself being hijacked by better organized Islamic forces is going to be the next question.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 21:24
by ramana
ShyamD, Its typical for Sunni ruling elite to claim Shia protestors in order to mute Western supporters for reforms. The core issue is politicial reform. In modern world 25% Sunni ruling elite over 75% Shia is unsustainable without a feeling of just representation. The demographic wave is asserting itself. Lets see.

BTW about the Rothkopf article if the Egyptian Amry steps aside then there will be a funadamental shift in Islamic states akin to the Reformation in Europe.

The military is a key component for an Islamic state.

An Egyptian intellectual was on radio saying that the six member reform committee is packed with MB or former MBs and he would rather die than allow Egypt to become a MB domain.

So there is a strong undercurrent for real change.

What Egypt society needs is support without an agenda to let them change themselves.

Oh another thing. Rothkopf et al think that US has a role and how all these changes will effect US policy.

What is really at stake is bigger than US and Israel and other nation states.
What we can see is total sea change in Islamic society and that can trigger real global change.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 17 Feb 2011 22:14
by shyamd
Of course, the protests were about reform, political reforms. However, there are 2 sides, some genuine grievances and want for reform. Then you have the destabilizers who have been trained by Iran. The show of force today and guarding national infrastructure was about that. And in fact within the destabilizers, it was split, you had people saying we'll only civil disobedience in the event of war with Iran and others saying lets do it NOW!

The opposition withdrew from parliament in order to extract concessions. Both sides won't back down I dont think. Now news is that pro govt protest will take place tomorrow.

Most important thing now was to prevent clashes between pro and anti govt protestors. Lots of propaganda which I saw first hand by NYT journalists. Bahrain faced a semi propaganda war today, almost caused a civil war. It could have been worse.

Listening to GCC ministers press conference, lots of ordinary citizens have turned up to ask questions as well as journalists.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 00:14
by Johann
Shyam D,

My comment on Yemen being caught in the Saudi-Iranian battle for mantle of mujahed and mujtahid is only partially about the Houthis.

Some of the tributaries of Iranian arms pipeline to Hamas passes through Yemen. This is one of the reasons that the Saudis in their usual paranoid fashion believe that Iran is backing the Houthis. Iran has the contacts to expand the conflict.

Najran in Saudi Arabia *used* to be a Zaydi city and the Houthi revival of traditional Zaydism is in part a reaction to Saudi support to Wahhabi attempts over 30-40 years to coopt Zaydis in to the fold.

This is not unlike Saudi support to the Deobandis since 1979 to check the rise of Shia influence and activism in Pakistan after the Iranian revolution.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 00:23
by ramana
Johann and ShyamD, Good time to ask this question:

My reading of obscure texts says that Yemen is the key to undestanding Saudi Arabia. And it will lead to unravelling. What do they mean and whats the antiquity of Yemen and its realtionship to the Arabian peninsula?
Thanks,

ramana

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 00:23
by Johann
What Egypt society needs is support without an agenda to let them change themselves.
Well said, and that applies to the whole of the Middle East and the Islamic world.

Turkey and Indonesia have both moved away from military control. Indonesia has moved farther towards parliamentary control. Both incidentally were US allies, and still are although they are more independent about it.

However I don't think this will be quick change. The social consensus across classes for liberal democracy takes time to emerge.

Consider how many upheavals France went through between the storming of the Bastille in 1792 and the emergence of a democratic republic in 1870 - three quarters of a century.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 00:54
by AKalam
Any ideas on trajectories for the Muslim dynamics in the subcontinent, how it will be affected by this democratizing wave in the Mid-east. If anything it will probably further weaken the role of military in Bangladesh politics and economy, but will it happen for Pakistan? May be overt coup's will become history? Will Military's control of economy also reduce with this loss of power at the top as politicians and bureaucrats become more assertive?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 02:07
by brihaspati
A collection of responses to the questions raised :

(1) Yemen and SA - Yemen was the first successful territorial expansion/tribute seeking venture that the founding fathers of Islam undertook, outside their base [and captured areas after genocide of the Jews around Yathrib]. There appears to have been some attempt at resistance from Yemeni's, but Yemen would have been important then as a source of sea-trade and piracy derived profits. Yemen would be one of the older trading networks of the Sabateans and crucial for the Arabs among the Islamists. Capture of Yemen gave them the access to the sea-trade across the Gulf at a stage they were not yet in control of the other side. The old north/south divide in the peninsular politics - the coastal and the interior - has always been problematic.

(2) Yemen also had this "Marxist" interlude, and a interior-coastal divide too, which is also a kind of complication and departire from the rest of ME except Iran. Iran and Yemen are the two places where Leftists made some significant inroads among elite/urbanite youth.

Might be that the Shia are parallel to Protestants - once you split you are open to further suggestions and even more splits, and new radicalizations.

(3) Khomeini could have been part of the game planned by the USA to remove the Shah. There have alwasy been allegations of this. Part of the top army command was executed, after forced by the US connections to remain inactive while the public mobilization was carried out in two stages. The first stage was the Marxists and the liberal reformists. Using them as casualties of the first phase served to both discredit the Shah as being "unpopular" and also severly mauling the Marxists and the liberals. In this situation they could bring the Islamist Khomeini and use the remainder of the army [after removing those commanders whoi could have been a psychological problem for the rank and file to fall in line as long asthe officers lived] to establish Khomeini's rule. Note how easily Reagan could negotiate the Contra deal with Khomeini.

(4) There is little to cause similar ME type waves in the subcontinent. One spot to watch out for will be Maldives. But unlikely. A surprise would be Malaysia if it moves in that direction. But things may unfold in Malaysia along a completely different track, and unexpectedly both in time and shape of things.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 04:05
by AKalam
The common thread in the ME wave is the empowerment of people with new technologies that help them organize and make it difficult for non-representative regimes to continue their hold on power. Whether it is about the Western supported Tin Pots, or about Basij supported Mullah's provided a life line by PRC and Russia, the trend is worldwide and it is just the beginning.

If anything, it makes the future harder to predict and may require major rethink and shift in policies on the ground in all corridors of powers of the world, to adjust to this emerging new reality.

The time lines and tipping points might be different in the subcontinent, PRC, North Korea or Burma, than in the ME, but no part of humanity is excluded from this trend.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 04:16
by ramana
Ak, I think the underlaying causes are educated unemployed youth and rising cost of living. I agree it will impact all people for at the baseline all have similar aspirations.

BTW, there could be similar protests in DC.

Twitter/Witter are being given credit.

Its the underlaying cause that enables the use of technology. Earlier they could have used tom-toms!

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 07:00
by Atri
1. internet cannot be completely relied upon for bringing in the changes in the system that people in ME are hoping. Hence, the influence of twitter et al should be taken for what its worth..

2. Hindus will shield Indian Muslims. Hindu fixation will shield Paki-Muslims and to certain extent BD muslims. Furthermore, people are happy with govt in Pakiland (well, they are used to having kanedian vijja stamped on their mushy-tushy as vaccination against evil Yindu). IM too has no reasons to shout, their demands are fulfilled and they do not demand for development, so that keeps sickular politicos happy and content..

In fact, I don't know how to grade this ME farce which is being played out. Muslim world does not have a system which is non-religious and non-western, not even Turkey. There is nothing truly secular in any Muslim country (Indonesia is exception, if they wish to exercise that freedom). So, Mubarak (who is friendly to west) will be replaced by army general (friendly to west) and people will have their success and everyone is happy.. The control over Suez is too precious to be jeopardized. The only system which Islamic world has and which is non-western is Islamic system and once that is chose, Taliban and Al Qaida aren't far behind with kind of money that KSA pays wahabi mullahs. So, west won't allow this to happen. Its just a controlled and premature explosion that is near avalanche site for its preventive intervention while the avalanche is small.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 07:21
by brihaspati
No, this one has pockets that are trying to be independent. We should not think of the "west" as more powerful than it really is. The first round will not be won by the "new line". The armies are waiting until they can restart their abuse behind shelters from world media attention. It is the second round after the first frontal line is crushed/absorbed/bought off - that may actually shake up the foundations. It is the remnants of the first defeated phase in Iran that is shaking now as second phase.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 08:04
by SwamyG
ramana wrote:Ak, I think the underlaying causes are educated unemployed youth and rising cost of living. I agree it will impact all people for at the baseline all have similar aspirations.

BTW, there could be similar protests in DC.
I said it earlier, rising China and India will cause takleef to so many people out in the World. We have all become highly materialistic, and there is no looking back now. If China and India's standard of living continues to increase it is just more takleef for people. Shale rocks oil ko goli maaru.

Meanwhile, in the West, West of Asia, there are protests in Wisconsin and Ohio too. All this hungama around the globe has removed the spotlight from America.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 10:31
by Samudragupta
So is Marx finally trumping Muhammad in Arab Lands? :P

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 10:45
by abhishek_sharma
Why Egypt says nothing about Obama and 5 other thoughts about the revolution

Foreign Policy Magazine

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2 ... revolution
1. Egypt says nothing about Obama. The United States had no control over events in Egypt.

...

2. If Obama gets any credit, so does Bush.

...

3. Despite the basic goodness of people rallying against autocracy and corruption, their movement won't seamlessly usher in a golden age of good governance.

...
4. Be careful what you ask for. ...

5. No one knows how the Muslim Brotherhood will react, including the Muslim Brotherhood. ...

6. James Clapper should resign.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 10:46
by abhishek_sharma
Cables illuminate U.S. relations with Bahrain, potential for unrest

http://wikileaks.foreignpolicy.com/post ... on_bahrain

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 10:57
by abhishek_sharma
The struggle to define the Egyptian revolution

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... revolution

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Feb 2011 11:50
by kmkraoind
Question to ShyamD, et al and other gurus. There are less migrants in Egypt. But Baharian has more than 50% migrants. What will be the composition of gatherings, what will be the impact of migrants in smooth running of organizations (both foreground/back offices), how the migrants react to the uprising/suppression, what will be the critical mass to make a successful revolution in case of Bahrain. Because the populace structure is quite different in Egypt and in Arabian peninsula. TIA.