The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 01 Aug 2011 07:49

chetak wrote: Not holding a candle for yeddy, who has successfully buried the BJP in the south for ever.

I found the following interesting!!

per Kalyan Singh:

The veteran leader said the BJP is as corrupt as the Congress and made a special mention of the Rs 13,000 crore mining scam in Karnataka. "BS Yeddyurappa is not the only one found guilty, if the probe goes deeper, it would reveal that a large part of the loot went to the bank accounts of BJP leaders sitting in Delhi," Kalyan charged.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 426541.cms

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Aug 2011 12:26

Ram Jethmalani in full cry!!

What a laughing stock we must be before the world. It is almost as if India is determined that it shall not combat terrorism, shall not have enabling legislation as enacted by the US, such as the Homeland Security Act 2002, and the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 of UK and similar legislations in European governments. India is determined not to have an effective national agency on the lines of the Homeland Security Department of the US. The ramshackle National Investigation Agency showed itself as a complete failure during the recent Mumbai attacks. Understandable, because its only mandate appears to be to investigate "Hindu terror", the last refuge for failed and hopeless Congressmen like Chidambaram. The CCTNS, JIC, ARC, NTRO (presently in another scam), and NCTC remain effete, scattered and unmonitorable, even by the Home Ministry. With such an unequivocal determination by the UPA government not to address terrorism effectively, I can only grieve for my country.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Aug 2011 13:02

Duragraha, not Satyagraha

By Alok Bajpai, a fellow, Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, New Delhi. The views expressed by the author are personal.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Aug 2011 13:13

Too many skeletons in oppn cupboard: PM

Deleberately not manking any comments.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Aug 2011 17:37

devaraj_d wrote: All I want is a presidential form of government which is better IMO compared to the parliamentary form of the government. This will solve many issues that we are facing right now and will help us achieve our goals quicker.

A strong Lokpal bill + presidential form of government will be a good combination.

Check the problems of Presidential form of government as well: Abject surrender of Obama. Shameless politician. He has done zilch of what he promised. During the race, he showed promise of being better than McCain. But he surrendered meekly to Corporations and Republicans. Corporations run America, and probably the World.

In the long run, however, Democrats won’t be the only losers. What Republicans have just gotten away with calls our whole system of government into question. After all, how can American democracy work if whichever party is most prepared to be ruthless, to threaten the nation’s economic security, gets to dictate policy? And the answer is, maybe it can’t.

Our coalition politics seems to have better checks and balances; and offers more robust and interesting dynamics, than a stupid two-party system headed by one President. In theory America has all the checks-balances, but in reality it suffers just like India.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 01 Aug 2011 17:55

Senator John Kerry was a far better choice than Obama. The american electorate put a legal man like Obama to command the American Armed Forces, and they are now wallowing in legal problems on many fronts.Even Pakistan threatens them now. Kerry would have not let this happen.He is adecorated war veteran, and would have managed better than Obama. This is OT, though.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 01 Aug 2011 18:27

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 443796.cms

Addressing a press conference here, the noted civil rights activist reacted strongly to the Prime Minister's justification of keeping his post out of the ambit of Lokpal.

"This statement is unfortunate. Till now, the people of the country and me too felt that we have an honest and non-corrupt Prime Minister," Hazare said.

"..our fight is not against Parliament but against the government. I have written a letter to him (PM) and even after that if he is saying this, it is unfortunate. Many people in the government are telling lies. The Prime Minister was a good person and even if he is telling lies then what will happen," he said but did not elaborate.

Singh yesterday said bringing the office of Prime Minister under the ambit of Lokpal would "not be advisable" and government has taken the decision after "taking all factors into account". He had earlier favoured inclusion of the office of Prime Minister under Lokpal.

Asked what he would do if the police denies him permission to stage protest in Jantar Mantar, Hazare said he would not insist on sitting at the site. "If they can provide a place where people can reach, where all amenities are provided, then we can go there.

"I don't want people to say that Anna is stubborn on this. Our issue is not Jantar Mantar, our issue is Lokpal," he said.

Rubbishing suggestions that he was trying to blackmail the government, he said, "It is not that I am very happy to go to fast. Government is forcing us to sit on fast. Why doesn't the government bring a strong Lokpal Bill."

Hazare, who addressed the press to give out results of "referendum" conducted by the civil activists in Chandni Chowk constituency of HRD Minister Kapil Sibal, said overwhelming 85 per cent of people favoured (their version) Jan Lokpal Bill.

He attacked Sibal for alleging that the "referendum" was carried out by Sangh Parivar.

"They sometimes link me with RSS, sometimes with BJP. Never in my life have I linked myself with anyone. We have leaders who have hump. I am a self-made person," said the activist who hails from Maharashtra.

On the referendum conducted in Chandni Chowk, Hazare said government will have to listen to the voices of people.

Kejriwal said, "Seeing these results the question arises, does Kapil Sibal still represent the people of his constituency?"

Team Anna claimed that the referendum revealed that the elected representatives were not voicing their electorate's wishes. "85 percent of the people surveyed in Sibal's constituency have opted in favour of the provisions proposed by team Anna," Kejriwal said.

"Four lakh referendum forms were distributed in the constituency, of which 86,000 forms have been collected till now. The referendum forms constituted a questionnaire of 8 questions on components of the bill. The result of 72,000 forms has been compiled, rest 14,000 could not scanned as they got wet due to rains and will be done manually," he said.

Kejriwal also alleged that there were attempts to derail their exercise. "There were 30 forms from an area which was fully in favour of government provisions. We approached the respondents through the phone number given in these forms and we were told by them that the RWA president collected the forms from them and he filled it," he said.

However, he said, they did not exclude these forms from the counting.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 01 Aug 2011 18:44

http://nriac.org/?page_id=167

Arvind Kejriwal speech @ IIT Chennai on July 30. Feel free to forward above link...

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 01 Aug 2011 19:35

^^^ brilliant speech, heard it all. Very clear thinking individual. Burning of the Govt.Lokpal Bill is a great idea.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 01 Aug 2011 19:35

SwamyG wrote: Our coalition politics seems to have better checks and balances; and offers more robust and interesting dynamics, than a stupid two-party system headed by one President. In theory America has all the checks-balances, but in reality it suffers just like India.

SwamyG: This budget deal is a result of the American institutionalized system of checks and balances, which in India's case is extremely weak. You or Paul Krugman may not like the actual policy choices made by one side but the fact remains that a decision was forced/compromised due to the institutionalized system. It is this institutionalized system (maybe not an exact replica) that is the need of the hour. Actual policy choices and opposition to them will be a never ending debate and should be.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 01 Aug 2011 19:54

Congress is now challenging Anna to contest in the elections from Chandni Chowk in 2014.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Aug 2011 20:30

Shaurya: We have our babudom, that is as institutionalized as any other. They might not work and please us all the time. But they are better than one party blackmailing the entire country.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 01 Aug 2011 23:17

SwamyG wrote:Shaurya: We have our babudom, that is as institutionalized as any other. They might not work and please us all the time. But they are better than one party blackmailing the entire country.

Atleast the party represents the people, even if not to your liking and can be changed by the people. In a non fractured polity this is normal and healthy.

The question is what is the right balance for a fractured polity, such as India. What I mean by a fractured polity is fundamental differences on vision and ideas of what constitutes Indian interests or a sufficient understanding of it.

In our case, the babudom is in collusion with the political executive that presides over it and this political executive is in turn part of the legislature, which in turn is controlled by a party. In our case, now it is a party that is headed by a dynasty. The entire concept of checks and balances breaks down because of this collusion and no systemic set of rules and procedures that codify this separation. It gets all the more challenging, when the original rules with colonial origins and were never designed for the welfare of the people in mind. It was designed to ensure political control. Political control was the design intent of our system and that is exactly what our system excels at.

What is codified into rules is the idea that this babudom shall be controlled by this political executive.

What is needed here is to separate this executive head at the three levels of government (District/City, State, National) and make them accountable to both the people directly and indirectly through elected representatives at these three levels (Nagarpalikas, State Sansad and Parliament).

There is a measure of separation between the courts and the executive and hence it works somewhat better than the other two branches, however, serious reform is needed here to make the courts work at lower levels, where accountability is seriously missing. (example: let a district court judge stand for elections?).

The Jan Lok Pal is a dire measure for dire times but more normal mode of operations, would be best accomplished through institutional restructuring and reforms.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 01 Aug 2011 23:27

Pranay wrote:http://nriac.org/?page_id=167

Arvind Kejriwal speech @ IIT Chennai on July 30. Feel free to forward above link...

Beautiful.

Thanks for posting this. Need to disseminate it wide and far

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 02 Aug 2011 02:05

SwamyG wrote:Shaurya: We have our babudom, that is as institutionalized as any other. They might not work and please us all the time. But they are better than one party blackmailing the entire country.

fwiw, US has a system that has "worked" till now. and the recent debt talks were a demonstration of a "determined" minority bringing the whole issue of uncontrolled spending into public light. I am glad for it. it had to happen at some point. regardless of their religious "born again" mentality, the Tea Party essentially did what the "mainstream" politicians could never hope to achieve. their pressure tactics worked. why are you having unnecessary headaches about this? this is the first step in controlling US imperial ambitions, and bringing some perspective to US spending habits.

the "left" in US is also waking up to the new reality, so wait and watch as they regroup their energies and focus on their projects. they will develop their own version of fanatically defending their spending programs, and ultimately both sides will reach a "plan" which will drastically increase taxes on Millionaires and cutting spending on both sides' projects.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 02 Aug 2011 04:37

Constitution vs institutions. Left vs Right.Corrupt vs Honest.Rich vs Poor.We have many fronts, on which conflicts are going on.Interesting thing is that all Indians are thinking of change.A change which will usher a new era.Few are clear about the coming change, but many feel it.The eye of the storm is Anna Hazare.Much hope is being pinned on his success.The nation needs to carefully analyse this new change that is coming.Anna Team sees the Lokpal bill as the only valid instrument of change.Perhaps this is 100% true.All problems of suffering do stem out of corruption and a Lokpal bill that is in accordance with the AH team, is definitely going to work,if and only if the entire nation with one heart pits itself in favour of this bill.Then the 1.25 crore Babus also will not come in the way of such a bill, but as things stand,these 1.25 crore Babus are being masterminded by five or six politicians at the centre, under the aegis of Sonia mata, who imagines she has replaced Bharat Mata.She scuttles every plan deftly, ensuring that her son comes to power.Dynasty Raj will make an all out effort to remain seated in power.Finally,it is people vs dynasty, a conflict which can deliver results. If the people win,dynasty is forced down and people will rule.If dynasty wins,people continue to suffer.

Before independence, India fought dynasties of the Moghuls and then the British congolmerate. British withdrew,only apparently,leaving behind India and Pakistan to ensure they can meddle later on.They always knew this weakness our people had,and exploited it.India has to get its act together again,somehow.We cannot turn back time,make changes and proceed further.We can perhaps stop time,make changes,then proceed further.I don't know more than this, at this point of time.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Aug 2011 06:32

Shaurya:
You can say the same thing about India too. After all the political parties making the coalition represent the people, no? The coalition politics of India might not please all sundry; but it is still representative.

I am not batting for INC, I have no love for 2G or its current crop of leaders. I bring points to show why one cannot just swoon at the forms of government in USA and cry "We need USA form of government onlee". Even in USA, there are career politicians in both parties and some people are in power because of their connections and family.

I am also not arguing for or against the Bill; my post is to just point out that USA's Presidential form of government is not all that rosy and the best.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 03 Aug 2011 01:25

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 458587.cms

Delhi Police have made it clear that Jantar Mantar is out of bounds for Anna Hazare's fast for a "strong" Lokpal Bill later this month, saying the venue has "little capacity" and no single organisation can be allowed to "usurp or lay exclusive claim" to it.

The Hazare team, in turn, suggested four other places where they could sit in for protest from August 16, including Boat Club, Rajghat, Ramlila Maidan and Shaheed Park near ITO.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 03 Aug 2011 02:09

SwamyG wrote:Shaurya:
You can say the same thing about India too. After all the political parties making the coalition represent the people, no? The coalition politics of India might not please all sundry; but it is still representative.

I am not batting for INC, I have no love for 2G or its current crop of leaders. I bring points to show why one cannot just swoon at the forms of government in USA and cry "We need USA form of government onlee". Even in USA, there are career politicians in both parties and some people are in power because of their connections and family.

I am also not arguing for or against the Bill; my post is to just point out that USA's Presidential form of government is not all that rosy and the best.

Forget the Presidential form, INC/Sonia and party politics. Think separation of constitutional bodies and devolution of powers to second, third and even fourth tiers. Accountability works best, when it is as close to by the people being governed. The more removed these processes are from the locals the more the issues.

A well structured system would have such accountabilities built in, at the various levels, negating the need for an external body such as the Lok Pal. What it would translate to is an ability to manage local affairs to the maximum degree possible without much concern for what the higher levels of government may think. This scenario may pose some other challenges for standardization and planning but is infinitely better than the top down approaches we have today. It would also be far more in tune of Indian ways of self governance than these top down colonial approaches imposed on us.

An ability to manage local affairs of cleanliness, local laws, local roads, garbage management, crime, justice, education are far more important to the people. An ability for this local electorate to self manage their Nagarpalikas/municipal councils with minimum state intervention, elect their executive(s) and judiciary with clear separation of roles and responsibilities can do wonders to transform local governance. Economic self sufficiency at the local levels is a pre condition to such a structure. This may create islands of prosperity and unequal growth in a state/province but it is a far better problem to have than no governance. Will not go into these issues here.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 04 Aug 2011 08:32

From the Pioneer (mouthpiece of BJP Advani coterie) -

At the end of the day, Anna Hazare and his team are not the elected representatives of the people and they should not try to run a parallel Government with reckless power. Only the legislature comprising elected representatives has the right to formulate laws and it is best if other factions of society do not interfere. Moreover, such instances also set bad precedents. If the country’s lawmakers are constantly held hostage by activists, civil or otherwise, then India will soon degenerate into an anarchic mobocracy. This should not be allowed.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/358181/Unwa ... otest.html

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 04 Aug 2011 11:51

SwamyG wrote:Our coalition politics seems to have better checks and balances; and offers more robust and interesting dynamics, than a stupid two-party system headed by one President. In theory America has all the checks-balances, but in reality it suffers just like India.

Thinking about this, the difference between the two models is that the Indian system can only function in the presence of a weak opposition. So most of the governments efforts tend to be directed toward how to weaken the opposition parties by hook or crook - dismissing state governments, tapping phones and probably worse is par for the course.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Aug 2011 12:55

Pranav wrote:From the Pioneer (mouthpiece of BJP Advani coterie) -

At the end of the day, Anna Hazare and his team are not the elected representatives of the people and they should not try to run a parallel Government with reckless power. Only the legislature comprising elected representatives has the right to formulate laws and it is best if other factions of society do not interfere. Moreover, such instances also set bad precedents. If the country’s lawmakers are constantly held hostage by activists, civil or otherwise, then India will soon degenerate into an anarchic mobocracy. This should not be allowed.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/358181/Unwa ... otest.html

Just look at what hegde did in his last days as lokayukta karnataka.

He showboated and left yeddy in limbo, guilty until proven innocent.

He skillfully used the press to project himself.

This is exactly how the anna sponsored lok pal or anyone else sponsored lok pal is going to behave. Have no doubts about it.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 04 Aug 2011 14:58

chetak wrote: Just look at what hegde did in his last days as lokayukta karnataka.

He showboated and left yeddy in limbo, guilty until proven innocent.

He skillfully used the press to project himself.

This is exactly how the anna sponsored lok pal or anyone else sponsored lok pal is going to behave. Have no doubts about it.

Rather than weeping for Yeddy and his sons, we should be concerned about the 16,000 crore looted from poor people in the Karnataka mining scam. I grant though that Yeddy is not the prime culprit, BJP central leaders are said to have made a killing. Yeddy should turn approver and spill the beans.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 04 Aug 2011 18:33

the mining cartel is a huge one with deep relations across several states. I would say that INC probably made a good amount of money from this scam. don't forget the Reddy brothers who are very close with YS Jagan in AP. this alliance was facilitated by INC's commercial interests and is therefore still active in those circles. if one wants to really did deep, this has all the hallmarks of Congress using its commercial interests to entice a select few on the BJP camp and then blame it on a man they hate and fear. possibly covertly supported by international business interests with links to their govts. the Mining cartel is a huge web. to pin it on BJP is to appropriate God-like powers to the BJP.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 04 Aug 2011 18:49

devesh wrote:the mining cartel is a huge one with deep relations across several states. I would say that INC probably made a good amount of money from this scam. don't forget the Reddy brothers who are very close with YS Jagan in AP. this alliance was facilitated by INC's commercial interests and is therefore still active in those circles. if one wants to really did deep, this has all the hallmarks of Congress using its commercial interests to entice a select few on the BJP camp and then blame it on a man they hate and fear. possibly covertly supported by international business interests with links to their govts. the Mining cartel is a huge web. to pin it on BJP is to appropriate God-like powers to the BJP.

Absolutely, the Congressis have probably made many times more. The sordid story needs to thoroughly come out before the people. Yeddy is a very small player and relatively well-intentioned. Far better to have Yeddy's man the next CM rather than a buddy of Mr Nira Radia aka Ananthkumar. All said and done, Hegde's activities have produced a net societal benefit.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 04 Aug 2011 19:01

Burning Lokpal Bill an insult to Parliament: Kapil Sibal.

NEW DELHI: The government on Thursday slammed the burning of copies of the Lokpal Bill by Anna Hazare and his team members as "an affront to Parliament".
"It's an insult and an affront to Parliament," human resource development Kapil Sibal told reporters here.
Sibal added that if Hazare had differing views on the Lokpal Bill, he should present these before the standing committee of Parliament which will look into it.

Source:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 483141.cms

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 05 Aug 2011 02:27

'Lokpal Bill tilted in favour of the corrupt’

Section 56 of the Lokpal bill says, "The Lokpal shall provide every person against whom a complaint has been made, before it, under this Act, legal assistance to defend his case before the Lokpal, if such assistance is requested for."

It adds that "notwithstanding anything in this Act, whoever makes any false and frivolous or vexatious complaint under this Act, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than two years but which may extend to five years and with fine which shall not be less than Rs 25,000 but which may extend to Rs 2 lakh."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 486791.cms

ha! this is what the congress ministers are upto! A Bunch of intellectuals both among ministers and GOI officials can twist the whole bill in their favour.

noway Congress and the corrupt regime is going to give up their money nor corrupt practices easily. they will continue to support the terror and divisions in India.

Congress is happy because there is no opposition party nor any other party is ready to challenge them. they will send IT officials to check on Ramdev and arrest Anna. They will threaten DMK, Mulayam Singh or any other party with corruption charges and so on.

Filing complaint against top brass won’t be easy
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Filing-co ... 29446.aspx

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 06 Aug 2011 02:38

Time Line of the Lokpal Bill

devaraj_d · Post by **devaraj_d** » 06 Aug 2011 11:56

SwamyG wrote:
devaraj_d wrote: All I want is a presidential form of government which is better IMO compared to the parliamentary form of the government. This will solve many issues that we are facing right now and will help us achieve our goals quicker.

A strong Lokpal bill + presidential form of government will be a good combination.
Check the problems of Presidential form of government as well: Abject surrender of Obama. Shameless politician. He has done zilch of what he promised. During the race, he showed promise of being better than McCain. But he surrendered meekly to Corporations and Republicans. Corporations run America, and probably the World.
In the long run, however, Democrats won’t be the only losers. What Republicans have just gotten away with calls our whole system of government into question. After all, how can American democracy work if whichever party is most prepared to be ruthless, to threaten the nation’s economic security, gets to dictate policy? And the answer is, maybe it can’t.
Our coalition politics seems to have better checks and balances; and offers more robust and interesting dynamics, than a stupid two-party system headed by one President. In theory America has all the checks-balances, but in reality it suffers just like India.

SwamyG:

US of course has problems which I acknowledged it earlier. However, I still believe that the presidential form of government is better than our parliamentary form of government. Whatever happened in the US can happen in a parliamentary form of government as well. I am supporting Presidential form of government because I do not see a better democratic alternative.

Quoting Krugman "What Republicans have just gotten away with calls our whole system of government into question. After all, how can American democracy work if whichever party is most prepared to be ruthless, to threaten the nation’s economic security, gets to dictate policy? And the answer is, maybe it can’t." In the above quote, I will replace Republicans with INC and America with India. The republicans at least did just what their tea party wanted to do.

ShauryaT's post on 01 Aug 2011 23:17 says it far better than what I was planning to do.

I do not agree to your view that we have far better checks and balances in our system. We have politicians openly saying that they need not follow the wishes of the people. I do not understand how the heck they can still continue. IMO we wouldn't be talking about Lokpal bill after 60 years if we had better checks and balances earlier.

We have only nepotism and favoritism in Indian politics. In TN we had a CM, a deputy CM, a Cabinet Minister, a Rajya Sabha MP all linked to one family. It is worse than a dynasty. A presidential form of government with primaries will solve this issue. Of course there such issues in the US as well but not to this level.

The president who is supposed to act as a check is carefully chosen so that this does not happen.

devaraj_d · Post by **devaraj_d** » 06 Aug 2011 12:00

devesh wrote:the mining cartel is a huge one with deep relations across several states. I would say that INC probably made a good amount of money from this scam. don't forget the Reddy brothers who are very close with YS Jagan in AP. this alliance was facilitated by INC's commercial interests and is therefore still active in those circles. if one wants to really did deep, this has all the hallmarks of Congress using its commercial interests to entice a select few on the BJP camp and then blame it on a man they hate and fear. possibly covertly supported by international business interests with links to their govts. the Mining cartel is a huge web. to pin it on BJP is to appropriate God-like powers to the BJP.

As someone who extensively specifies iron and steel it pains to see me our resources getting plundered. There can be no modern civilization without iron / steel. No material can replace it. I hope it is stopped soon.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Aug 2011 12:17

Pranav wrote:
chetak wrote: Just look at what hegde did in his last days as lokayukta karnataka.

He showboated and left yeddy in limbo, guilty until proven innocent.

He skillfully used the press to project himself.

This is exactly how the anna sponsored lok pal or anyone else sponsored lok pal is going to behave. Have no doubts about it.
Rather than weeping for Yeddy and his sons, we should be concerned about the 16,000 crore looted from poor people in the Karnataka mining scam. I grant though that Yeddy is not the prime culprit, BJP central leaders are said to have made a killing. Yeddy should turn approver and spill the beans.

yeddy is a mediocre small timer, more of a symptom rather than the disease itself.

He and his extended family have just had a taste of power, ambrosia that is very difficult to

give up. His supporters are a gaggle of even more mediocre losers. He is their only hope of

survival and the real chance to up their market values when the money bags come calling.

Most of them will not even get tickets for the next muncipal dog catcher's election.

The kangress lost the plot when jagan walked away with everything including the kitchen sink.

They fatally delayed action against jagan hoping to garner a major part of the YSR spoils,

which is why the andhra ports route was left open to the reddy brothers and jagan to continue

their iron ore export scam.

Shutting down yeddy also shut down jagan and gang.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 06 Aug 2011 14:05

SwamyG wrote:Shaurya:
You can say the same thing about India too. After all the political parties making the coalition represent the people, no? The coalition politics of India might not please all sundry; but it is still representative.

I am not batting for INC, I have no love for 2G or its current crop of leaders. I bring points to show why one cannot just swoon at the forms of government in USA and cry "We need USA form of government onlee". Even in USA, there are career politicians in both parties and some people are in power because of their connections and family.

I am also not arguing for or against the Bill; my post is to just point out that USA's Presidential form of government is not all that rosy and the best.

US system might not be perfect but still is much better than Indian system.The Parliamentary system in India is no longer suitable(if it ever was) for it anymore.It is just a scam being played over and over again at the end of every five years.And by the way it is not even Indian.Instead of doing the hard work in forming its own political framework India just copied the British system.So I am definitely not surprised that this system doesn't work for India.Because it was never meant too.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 06 Aug 2011 14:27

The Indian youth today are well focussed in supporting Anna Hazare.This change must come, at all costs.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 07 Aug 2011 23:10

Subra Swamy's house attacked

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unide ... me/828436/

it is interesting to read comments on ToI about Sonia Gandhi's treatment in US where comments like following got maximum recommendation

'operation is success-patient is dead,

'Sonia you were the cancer of India and thanks for leaving please dont come back'

'From Ajmal Kasab-Dear mam sonia pls come back as we feel safe only in your presence, pls get well soon- from all pakis'

some other comments were in full unparliamentary language and unmentionable but high recommendation..!

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 08 Aug 2011 00:40

Ive been monitoring AH's fb page and i realize how over the past 2 weeks people have popped up with completely BS comments on why anna doesent take up other issues.... For a while, it amounted to healthy criticism till these people start showing their true colors and asking anna to demand arrest of bjp leaders as they are corrupt as well and asking everyone on the page why anna doesent fight against rss sponsored terrorism.... heres an example i took care of

I gotta give it to the congress, they are pretty good at fighting psychological campaigns......

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 08 Aug 2011 00:40

Ive been monitoring AH's fb page and i realize how over the past 2 weeks people have popped up with completely BS comments on why anna doesent take up other issues.... For a while, it amounted to healthy criticism till these people start showing their true colors and asking anna to demand arrest of bjp leaders as they are corrupt as well and asking everyone on the page why anna doesent fight against rss sponsored terrorism.... heres an example i took care of

I gotta give it to the congress, they are pretty good at fighting psychological campaigns......

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 Aug 2011 15:22

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ramdevs-supp ... 772-3.html

Ramdev's supporters organise yagna for Rajbala

"What was the fault of my mother? She was there to protest against the cancer of corruption that has engulfed our country and this was her constitutional right.... We want probe by an independent agency, if there is any, because we don't trust the Delhi Police anymore," said Rakesh, Rajbala's daughter.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 08 Aug 2011 18:07

For those interested in/around Bombay/Mumbai...

Msg from IAC (India Against Corruption) - Anna Hazare in Mumbai with Arvind Kejriwal. Come in Thousands @ Azad Maidan-Tue, 9th Aug @ 4pm. Call for Second Freedom Struggle from Mumbai again.Ph7303150500.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 09 Aug 2011 20:26

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 543280.cms

Some powerful people in the government are indeed very insecure...

Anna Hazare on Tuesday alleged he is being targeted by the government, claiming his records in the Army were being checked and people sent to his village in Maharashtra to check on his organisation.

"I have not done anything wrong throughout my life," Hazare said.

The 74-year-old Gandhian said he was firm on his decision to go on an indefinite fast in Delhi from August 16 for a strong Lokpal Bill to tackle corruption.

The anti-corruption crusader was talking to newsmen at two separate events organised by the Mumbai Press Club and Mumbai Marathi Patrakar Sangh.

"They( government) have sent people to check my records in the Army. They want to see if they can find something during my service years. I have not done anything wrong throughout my life," he said. Hazare served as a jawan in the Army for 15 years.

The social activist alleged that the government's intentions are not right and that was why they are trying to defame the civil society spearheading the anti-graft campaign.

"They have put people after me. They have sent people to my village to check on my organisation. I have no bank balance, so what will you find?. I live in a temple in a eight feet by ten feet room. I just have a plate to eat and a bed to sleep on. What will you find?," he said. Hazare hails from Ralegan Sidhi village in Ahmednagar district.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Aug 2011 20:27

Rahul Mehta says he got an e-mail from an Anna Hazare supporter that AH supports the right to recall(RTR). However RM muses how come such a right is not in the proposed Lokpal draft?