Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 05 Apr 2015 03:04

The 8,000-km to 12,000-km range Agni-VI will be a four-stage intercontinental ballistic missile, is currently in the hardware development phase, after its design phase was completed. Agni VI will have Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Warheads as well as Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle (MaRV), which will give Agni VI an extended range. It will be taller than its predecessor Agni V, and is expected to be flight tested by 2017. The government of India is yet to approve the project, although DRDO has completed all calculations and started the engineering work.

And, unlike the bulky Agni-III, the new generation Agni-VI missile will be sleeker, easily transportable and would be readily deployed. It will have the capability to be launched from submarine and from land-based launchers. Salwan said beside the Agni-VI's ground version, the DRDO is simultaneously working on its underground variant.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Apr 2015 05:31

Nothing surprising on Agni VI per se except more details are seen now.

According to The Hindu (Feb. 05, 2013), “We have started working on the multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles [MIRV] version [Agni-VI]. It will carry four or six warheads depending upon their weight,” DRDO missile technologists said. “The constraint is the vehicle’s mass.” Although the Union government is yet to sanction Agni-VI project, the DRDO has done all the enabling studies, finalised the missile’s design and started working on the engineering part. It had also figured out how to anchor four or six warheads in the vehicle, how to disperse them and the pattern of their dispersal

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 05 Apr 2015 08:59

Vipul wrote:More details on Agni VI.

The 8,000-km to 12,000-km range Agni-VI will be a four-stage intercontinental ballistic missile, is currently in the hardware development phase, after its design phase was completed. Agni VI will have Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Warheads as well as Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle (MaRV), which will give Agni VI an extended range. It will be taller than its predecessor Agni V, and is expected to be flight tested by 2017. The government of India is yet to approve the project, although DRDO has completed all calculations and started the engineering work.

^^^India capable of developing ICBM beyond 10,000km range: DRDO

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Salwan said beside the Agni-VI's ground version, the DRDO is simultaneously working out on its underground variant.
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Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Apr 2015 09:03

He must have meant underwater. We have no plans for land silos.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 05 Apr 2015 10:18

Karan M wrote:https://www.ibcworldnews.com/2015/04/04 ... e-covered/

Govt plans Nuclear Shield in Delhi; Mumbai next in line to be covered
Posted on Apr 4 2015 - 1:55pm by IBC News Bureau
Modi Sarkar has taken the first real step in giving India’s capital city, Delhi, a security cover that cities such as Beijing and Washington already have — a nuclear missile shield. Two long-range missile-tracking radars have been placed in the national capital region.

When completed, the shield will be able to intercept missiles fired from as far as 5,000 km away. Senior government officials familiar with the matter told ET placing the radars is the beginning of an accelerated process in creating a missile cover for major Indian cities. The next Indian city to be covered is Mumbai.

Major cities around the world such as Washington, Beijing, Paris, London and Tel Aviv all have missile shields.

India’s missile shield program has fallen behind over the past two years. The program started in real earnest in 2006 and 2009-12 saw many tests. However, say senior officials, 2013 and 2014 were lull years for the program. There was a failed test in April 2014.

Officials said the Modi government had ordered a major acceleration of the missile shield program immediately after coming to power last May. Placing the long-range radars — Swordfish, developed with Israeli assistance, and capable of tracking incoming missiles from a range of 800 km — is a first big step that will be followed by placing missile interceptor units by 2016.

Missile tests will be held regularly, officials said. Next Monday will see an air defence missile test from Wheeler Island, off the Odisha coast. Wheeler Island is India’s main missile testing location.

The missile shield system will require several dozen missiles to be produced annually in the first phase. Missile defence systems in India use both long- and short range interceptors. Officials said India was better prepared in developing short-range interceptor missiles. The long range system will require more tests.

(My note: Gyan on better prepared for short range yada yada is because of Akash, long range more tests will be likely PDV)

Officials say the Modi government’s view is that given the growing sophistication of nuclear arsenal in India’s neighbourhood, the lack of a missile defence system was a major security gap. The missile shield is even more critical for India given its ‘no first use’ policy for nuclear weapons, a doctrine that Pakistan doesn’t follow.

[b]A major project cleared by the Modi government in its first months in power was to approve setting up a $1-billion facility in DRDO to manufacture vital seeker systems. Seeker systems direct missiles in the final phase of targeting. The facility, expected to come up near Hyderabad, is critical for missile shield.[/b]

I wonder which type of sensors? IR or Radar? And how much time will be taken to execute the project?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 05 Apr 2015 10:58

Singha wrote:He must have meant underwater. We have no plans for land silos.

May be they are thinking about silos. Frankly the 100 foot long(?) A5 TEL-trailer that was revealed earlier doesn't inspire much confidence.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 05 Apr 2015 12:51

Singha wrote:He must have meant underwater. We have no plans for land silos.

It is doubtful that such a grave statement having strategical implications would be made lightly..

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 05 Apr 2015 12:57

DRDO exploring possibility of increasing range of Pinaka MBRL

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

COIMBATORE: The Armament and Combat Engineering Cluster wing of DRDO, Pune is exploring the possibility of increasing the range of Pinaka Multi Barrel Rocket Launch System ( MBRL) from 40 km to 60 km, a top official said here today.

"The trials are in the process at the cluster, which will be followed by field based trials," Anil M Datar, the distinguished scientist and ACE Director General told reporters on the sidelines of a graduation day function at the Sri Ramakrishna Engineeri ..

He said ACE was working to get more accuracy to target in guided rockets, even as manual labour is reduced and automation increased.

ACE was also in the process of developing a quick launcher portable bridge that can move along with the equipment, Datar said

kit · Post by **kit** » 05 Apr 2015 18:16

Missile Seeker Microelectronic Components needs dedicated chip fabrication facilities ..probably the billion dollar facility is one

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 05 Apr 2015 18:19

dinesha wrote:DRDO exploring possibility of increasing range of Pinaka MBRL

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst
COIMBATORE: The Armament and Combat Engineering Cluster wing of DRDO, Pune is exploring the possibility of increasing the range of Pinaka Multi Barrel Rocket Launch System ( MBRL) from 40 km to 60 km, a top official said here today.

"The trials are in the process at the cluster, which will be followed by field based trials," Anil M Datar, the distinguished scientist and ACE Director General told reporters on the sidelines of a graduation day function at the Sri Ramakrishna Engineeri ..

He said ACE was working to get more accuracy to target in guided rockets, even as manual labour is reduced and automation increased.

ACE was also in the process of developing a quick launcher portable bridge that can move along with the equipment, Datar said

I thought extended range pinaka-2 already tested!!!

kit · Post by **kit** » 05 Apr 2015 18:20

Vipul wrote:More details on Agni VI.

The 8,000-km to 12,000-km range Agni-VI will be a four-stage intercontinental ballistic missile, is currently in the hardware development phase, after its design phase was completed. Agni VI will have Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Warheads as well as Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle (MaRV), which will give Agni VI an extended range. It will be taller than its predecessor Agni V, and is expected to be flight tested by 2017. The government of India is yet to approve the project, although DRDO has completed all calculations and started the engineering work.

^^^India capable of developing ICBM beyond 10,000km range: DRDO

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Salwan said beside the Agni-VI's ground version, the DRDO is simultaneously working out on its underground variant.
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[/quote]

for deterrence against china Indian nuke boomers might as well be far away from the main land ... the 10k range is quite useful

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 05 Apr 2015 23:25

Frankly,this whole Maitri deal seems like smoke and mirrors to me, from the Indian side that is. Don't think India needs it in any hurry, but allows the GOI to back out of the Rafale without too much R&D from French side. With Maitri + Airbus 330, French get consolation price. MRCA saga might very well be over - the longer it takes to sign the deal, the less likely it is to be signed IMHO - the window for an MRCA requirement keeps getting shorter every day. Especially with both the Pakfa and the Tejas on their way. A quick MKI buy will nail the coffin totally, but it will be the last to come. If the MRCA is not signed soon, and it is unlikely that it will be considering that there is no such plan during Modi's visit, it is dead. In all probability Maitri will go the MRTA way (and worse), right now it is just a carrot that provides some room to maneuver and a chance for smiling photo ops.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Apr 2015 06:32

I have never been able to understand why the members think that it is india duty to prevent r&d in some foreign land.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2015 08:57

silos only make sense for 1st strike and launch on warning.

for a launch on impact or 2nd strike silos are just a waste of money. even the worst TEL is more survivable.

or if you have a outsize missile like SS18 that is not mobile. despite its vast size, the SS18 still had to be transported from storage/repair sites to silos and this vehicle did it
http://lh3.ggpht.com/odegov/SOoJDkYKkPI ... CN7891.JPG

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Apr 2015 09:32

Regarding Silos - only the US and USSR developed them to their fullest extent. I think they are perfectly survivable for exactly the same reasons that makes Pakis and the Chinese build long,deep underground tunnel facilities.

The US and USSR found Silos to be unworkable after a stage because they had enough nukes to cover the entire country more or less and several multimegaton nukes that would create enough overpressure on the ground to damage underground structures. Even then there was no guarantee. Hence SALT.

A mix of silos and mobile launchers - with 100 launch sites and 200 decoys and it is possible to have a system that survives a Chinese or Paki first strike. The naval deterrent is simply icing on the cake.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 06 Apr 2015 09:47

The retaliation will be initiated once the launch of Nuclear ballistic missiles are detected. And when our missiles are launched and in the air the next step will be launching of ABM's to shoot down incombing BM's.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2015 10:00

and where would be acquire the land needed for this?

even for industry its tough to get land. silos would need to be in secure location out of direct sight from outside.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Apr 2015 14:06

Anantha Krishnan M ‏@writetake 12m12 minutes ago

#BreakingNews Unconfirmed reports say that AAD interceptor missile falls down & catches fire soon after take off from Wheeler Island.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 06 Apr 2015 17:08

"The ‘Hyundaization’ of the Global Arms Industry"
A few examples: NATO allies Turkey and Poland didn’t buy their latest self-propelled howitzers from the U.S. or even Germany. Instead they turned to Samsung. South Korea’s Daewoo is building Britain’s next naval supply ships, and Korea Aerospace Industries is exporting TA-50 and FA-50 fighter jets to Iraq, Indonesia and the Philippines. (WSJ pay wall)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-katzman ... hp_opinion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K9_Thunder

Look at what Turkey and Poland are doing.

Meanwhile back at the AKA ranch, we've not acquired a field artillery piece since when?

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 06 Apr 2015 17:23

Interceptor missile test off Odisha coast fails (The Hindu)

The trial of an upgraded interceptor missile conducted by DRDO scientists has failed on Monday. According to DRDO sources, the missile called Advanced Air Defence (AAD), plummeted into the Bay of Bengal a few seconds after the liftoff from Wheeler Island, off the Odisha Coast.

There appeared to be a problem in one of the sub-systems, which malfunctioned, DRDO scientists told The Hindu. The exact cause would be known after analysing the data and it might take 24 hours to come to a preliminary conclusion.

The DRDO planned to conduct the Interceptor missile test against an electronic target missile to validate the missile’s capability to carry a bigger warhead, improved manoeuverability and reduced mis-distance, among other parameters. India plans to deploy a two-tiered Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system to protect important cities and vital installations from external threats.

The first phase envisages to engage and destroy incoming enemy ballistic missile of 2,000-km range, while the second phase seeks to tackle missiles between 2,000-km and 5,000-km range. With Monday’s mission the DRDO has conducted 10 interceptor missile tests and eight out of them have been successful.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 06 Apr 2015 17:25

India's missile interceptor test off Odisha coast fails
http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/i ... 49402.html

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 06 Apr 2015 18:51

Singha wrote:and where would be acquire the land needed for this?

even for industry its tough to get land. silos would need to be in secure location out of direct sight from outside.

If we may recall, as reported, Agni-2 was stored in Mountain cave-tunnel complex in NE.
While TEL types are suitable to mask in populated areas, it become recognizable more in less populated areas. In such cases, such silo type could be useful. More than silos, it could be tunnels where the missile could be transported and launched, a mix between typical silo which offers no mobility and TEL.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 Apr 2015 19:30

Add to the mix the railroad "goods carriage" TEL

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 06 Apr 2015 19:42

Singha wrote:silos only make sense for 1st strike and launch on warning.

And that's how I hope we will be using our nukes, if ever. NFU should only be havabazi.

Singha wrote:and where would be acquire the land needed for this?

I guess one could use existing air/military bases.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2015 20:02

AAD plummeting seconds after liftoff could be a propulsion issue. Its solid fuelled. So most likely the Thrust vector control system had electrical malfunction.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 06 Apr 2015 23:20

This one is most probably an improved version of AAD hence should be taken as first flight of a new prototype.

prashanth wrote:Interceptor missile test off Odisha coast fails (The Hindu)
...........................
The DRDO planned to conduct the Interceptor missile test against an electronic target missile to validate the missile’s capability to carry a bigger warhead, improved maneuverability and reduced mis-distance, among other parameters. India plans to deploy a two-tiered Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system to protect important cities and vital installations from external threats.
-----------------------------------

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 06 Apr 2015 23:56

Star Wars setback as DRDO interceptor missile malfunctions

The missile was launched for the first time from a canister, which went off exactly as planned; and the AAD’s newly developed composite rocket motor functioned “perfectly”. However, seconds into the test, the missile deviated from its planned path and it quickly became clear that it would not hit the target as planned, at an altitude of 20 kilometres above the earth.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Apr 2015 01:43

A Sharma wrote:Star Wars setback as DRDO interceptor missile malfunctions

The missile was launched for the first time from a canister, which went off exactly as planned; and the AAD’s newly developed composite rocket motor functioned “perfectly”. However, seconds into the test, the missile deviated from its planned path and it quickly became clear that it would not hit the target as planned, at an altitude of 20 kilometres above the earth.

Add to the above

to validate the missile’s capability to carry a bigger warhead, improved maneuverability and reduced mis-distance, among other parameters.

So there were quite a few firsts in this launch.
So its a total new vehicle.

Most likely control malfunction.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Apr 2015 01:59

ramana wrote: Most likely control malfunction.

Or, material failure. Quite likely in new systems where the weakest links are quickly exposed.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Apr 2015 09:11

Interesting bit is that 2 LRTRs are in Delhi integrated with the IACCS. One more is in Chandipur or thereabouts. One we know was in Kolar for tests. Point is we have with usual SDRE silence launched production of these radars.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Apr 2015 09:23

enroute to gurgaon on metro rail, there is a section where the pillars are really high, giving a commanding view. there is a vast scrubland upto the edges of urban gurgaon. on a hillock near where the urban buildings ends , I saw a radar (parabolic) of vast size slowly rotating away on its perch atop the delhi ridge (offshoot of aravalis). it must be the big old 1000km range 3D search radar we have covering delhi region.

p.s. when I went, gurgaon looked hot dusty and deserted in middle of day. I saw the line of malls near iffco chowk from the train itself....then without leaving the stn, did a U-turn and returned on another train all the way back to cashmere gate

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Apr 2015 09:31

A Sharma wrote:Star Wars setback as DRDO interceptor missile malfunctions

The missile was launched for the first time from a canister, which went off exactly as planned; and the AAD’s newly developed composite rocket motor functioned “perfectly”. However, seconds into the test, the missile deviated from its planned path and it quickly became clear that it would not hit the target as planned, at an altitude of 20 kilometres above the earth.

So it was self destruct. My guess is that it was a control system failure.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Apr 2015 09:32

Singha wrote:enroute to gurgaon on metro rail, there is a section where the pillars are really high, giving a commanding view. there is a vast scrubland upto the edges of urban gurgaon. on a hillock near where the urban buildings ends , I saw a radar (parabolic) of vast size slowly rotating away on its perch atop the delhi ridge (offshoot of aravalis). it must be the big old 1000km range 3D search radar we have covering delhi region.

p.s. when I went, gurgaon looked hot dusty and deserted in middle of day. I saw the line of malls near iffco chowk from the train itself....then without leaving the stn, did a U-turn and returned on another train all the way back to cashmere gate

This?
THD-1955
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... HD_003.jpg

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Apr 2015 09:33

Karan M wrote:Interesting bit is that 2 LRTRs are in Delhi integrated with the IACCS. One more is in Chandipur or thereabouts. One we know was in Kolar for tests. Point is we have with usual SDRE silence launched production of these radars.

Actually Phase 2 was to have both LRTR Mk2 and UHF radars...we know at this AI that UHF AESA radar modules were displayed. Oh the sneaky guys..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Apr 2015 09:35

^ yes thats the one. big old hound dog that can keep chugging along all day.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Apr 2015 09:44

They were upgraded by Thales/BEL a few years back as well.

morem · Post by **morem** » 07 Apr 2015 10:49

Singha wrote:enroute to gurgaon on metro rail, there is a section where the pillars are really high, giving a commanding view. there is a vast scrubland upto the edges of urban gurgaon. on a hillock near where the urban buildings ends , I saw a radar (parabolic) of vast size slowly rotating away on its perch atop the delhi ridge (offshoot of aravalis). it must be the big old 1000km range 3D search radar we have covering delhi region.

p.s. when I went, gurgaon looked hot dusty and deserted in middle of day. I saw the line of malls near iffco chowk from the train itself....then without leaving the stn, did a U-turn and returned on another train all the way back to cashmere gate

I used to pass by this on my way to office every day , as in on the road right next to the wall with barbed wire.
I recall that cellphones did not work when we were in vicinity of this facility

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Apr 2015 12:42

Are bhai,,at this rate will you guys provide a GPS lat/long also..thoda self censorship..

Singhas was deliberately vague enough.. but above details of which road etc need to be edited.

morem · Post by **morem** » 07 Apr 2015 14:26

Karan M wrote:Are bhai,,at this rate will you guys provide a GPS lat/long also..thoda self censorship..

Singhas was deliberately vague enough.. but above details of which road etc need to be edited.

Apologies , post edited

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Apr 2015 14:34

No need to worry, the facility is visible from miles around. It location is nicely visible on google earth, as well.