India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

[Amber G.]

Tamil Nadu nuclear protesters seek Rahul's help

The People's Movement Against Nuclear Energy (PMANE) has written to Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi exhorting him to intervene and urge the government to order a moratorium on other nuclear power projects

PMANE is the key organization mobilizing the local community against the nuclear power project in Tamil Nadu.

They have requested Gandhi to make Congress announce a moratorium on nuclear energy plans and projects until the next general elections and also make it a poll issue in the affected states.

Slamming the government's pro-nuclear stance, the PMANE leaders have said, "Manmohan Singh government is trying to thrust a pro-nuclear energy policy down the throats of Indians despite stiff resistance all over the country. In a highly and densely populated country like India, nuclear energy with deadly wastes would pose serious dangers and threats to the common people."

[chaanakya]

Nuclear plant concerns must be addressed: Nobel laureate

Brief Bio about the Nobel American

In addition to his work with IPCC, Byrne is coexecutive director of the Joint Institute for a Sustainable Energy and Environmental Future, cofounder of the International Solar Cities Initiative, policy adviser to the Environmental Forum of the Korea National Assembly and a member of the board of directors of the Urban Environmental Center. He was instrumental in obtaining United Nations observer status for CEEP related to the Framework Convention on Climate Change.

Byrne received his bachelor's degree in economics and his master's and doctoral degrees in urban affairs and public policy from UD. He was named director of UD's Energy Policy Research Group in 1981 and was appointed an assistant professor in urban affairs and public policy in 1982. He has received UD's Excellence in Teaching Award.

Byrne also created UD's graduate program in energy and environmental policy, the first such doctoral degree offered in the U.S. He was a Fulbright senior lecturer/researcher in 1995, jointly affiliated with Seoul National University and the Korea Energy Economics Institute.

Byrne has published extensively in his field and is coeditor of the Bulletin of Science, Technology and Society and general editor of Energy and Environmental Policy book series. His most recent books are Energy Revolution and Environmental Justice.

Who is hell bent on speaking out of turn on Jaitapur NPP which would be powered by Areva EPR while Americans are also trying hard elsewhere. Incidentally he says US is hardly having any new uranium based NPP because of cost issues. Are they really trying New NPPs in their own backyard or simply trying to palm off their tech to gullible and corrupt decision makers here.

MUMBAI: On Wednesday, residents of Jaitapur in Ratnagiri district, who are opposing the proposed French-aided nuclear power plant, found a sympathetic voice in none other than Nobel laureate John Byrne. He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007.

At a meeting held at the Mumbai Marathi Patrakar Sangh, the residents expressed apprehensions about the nuclear plant plan as "it would affect their livelihood".

After interacting with them, Byrne emphasized that the authorities need to address the residents' concerns in a transparent manner. The discussions convinced him that the people of Jaitapur know more about atomic energy than US citizens.

In the past, PM Manmohan Singh, in an interview to the American Science magazine, had blamed foreign NGOs, especially Americans, for backing the agitation against the Russian-aided Kudankulam atomic power plant in Tamil Nadu.

Later, at a meeting organized by the Nehru Science Centre on "New Energy For New Climate", Byrne , while speaking at a Q-&-A session, said India had a range of energy choices before opting for nuclear energy.

He said the use of uranium for generating power has created problems, and that is why there were hardly any new nuclear power plants in the US. "The investment on uranium-based energy is heavy, and in the US it costs as much as $ 4 billion. It is hard to convince investors and hence, there may not be many nuclear plants in the US," he said.

According to him, plans to set up nuclear power plants in South Africa have not materialized, and in France, having the highest consumption of nuclear power globally, the problem of carbon emission has not been resolved.

[chaanakya]

Bangalore: Bird life takes wings around nuclear plant site

Scientists Timothy Mousseau and Ander Pape Moeller, who are studying the impact of Fukushima nuclear disaster on birds say that the bird population in Japan has declined by 30% due to radiation, and posit the figure as the damage that nuclear plants cause on biodiversity. Closer home at Kaiga, it is the other way round.

Birders who participated in a ‘bird sighting expedition’ organised by the nuclear power corporation of India limited (NPCIL) have found that the bird diversity was intact around Kaiga and it was in fact getting better in bird population.

Perhaps the outcry against nuclear energy has put the authorities at Kaiga Generating Station (KGS) on their guard, because they have taken up several environmental protection measures that has regenerated the flora, with the forests thicker than before. As a result, the catchment area of KGS is attracting birds, in stark contradiction to the general notion that radiation several kilometres around the nuclear power station affected bird diversity first.

Why organise this expedition?
“There is lot of interest generated the environment protection vis-a-vis nuclear power, and there is an argument that the bird species get affected very badly if there were leaks in radiation, the increase in the numbers of birds and bird diversity goes to prove that Kaiga was a safe area for all living beings,” say officials of KGS.

The birding expedition was a marathon extending up to 42 kilometres around Kaiga and birders walked in various terrains that hosts birds like aquatic, wetland, grassland, raptor and land birds them.

A total of 213 species of birds have been identified so far in the Region around KGS and Kaiga Township at Mallapuram, about 17 kilometres from KGS.

This year’s bird marathon alone identified 162 species of birds. I got to identify Ashy Drongo and my friends in my circuit have recorded a number of migrants,” Samad Kottur, president of the North Karnataka Birder’s Network (NKBN) told DNA.

Twenty species, which had not been seen in the area so far, were observed and documented. These include Nilgiri Flowerpecker (dicaeum concolor), Crested Goshawk (accipiter bivirgatus), Rufus-bellied Eagle (Iophotriorchis kienerii), Brown Fish Owl (ketupa zeylonensis), Blyth’s Starling (sturnia malabarica blythi), Crested Treeswift (hemiprocne coronate), Clamorous Reed warbler (acrocephalus stemtoreus), Peregrine Falcon (falco peregrinus), Besra (accipiter virgatus), Oriental Honey Buzzard (pernis ptilorhynchus), Scaly Breasted Munia (lonchura punctulata) and Changeable Hawk Eagle (nisaetus cirrhatus limaeets).

Besides, the birders observed all three Hornbills - Malabar Pied Hornbill (anthracoceros coronatus), Indian Gray Hornbill (ocyceros birostris) and Malabar Grey Hornbill (ocyceros griseus) resident to the area.

They also observed migrants like Grey Wagtail (motacilla cinerea), Brown Shrike (lanius cristatus), Ashy Drongo (dicrurus leucophaeus), Verditer Flycatcher (eumyias thalassinus), Blue-capped Rock-Thrush (monticola cinclorhynchus), Eurasian Golden Oriole (oriolus oriolus), Osprey(pandion haliaetu), Barn Swallow (hirundo rustica) and Red-rumped Swallow (cecropis daurica).

What does this mean?
“Bird diversity and population was definitely an indicator of the health of the environment, I would base my argument on the endemic bird diversity -those which are commonly found in a certain area, migrants do come and go and wetlands birds also go wherever there are wetlands, it was heartening to know that the bird diversity was found to be at its peak at Kaiga,” said well-known ornithologist Dr NA Madhyastha.

[chaanakya]

Kudankulam could be commissioned in "few days": Official

New Delhi: The first 1,000 MW unit of the much-delayed Kudankulam nuclear power project (KNPP) could be commissioned in the next few days and every step is being taken to ensure safety, a senior official said.

"We are reaching there. It is a matter of days now," Ravi Bhushan Grover, Principal Adviser, Department of Atomic Energy, told reporters on the sidelines of the India Energy Congress here when asked about the commissioning of KNPP.

He said nuclear engineers were carrying out a thorough check of the first unit of the project, being built with Russian collaboration.

"We have to check at every stage. Whenever we find something, we correct it and move forward. We cannot take any chances. Safety has to be guaranteed," said Grover, who played a crucial role in negotiating the Indo-US civil nuclear cooperation agreement.

He said the engineers were now gradually heating up the reactor systems to the maximum after which the plant would again be put through a series of tests.

Last month, the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) had granted permission to the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited to repeat the 'hydro-tests' on the first unit.

In December, AERB had given its nod for the 'second heat up', under which all systems of the entire nuclear power plant will be put to test to demonstrate its operability and safety.

It was during these tests that engineers found certain deviations in some plant equipment and it was felt that some maintenance operations needed to be carried out.

AERB had granted permission to load fuel in the first unit of the nuclear power project on August 10 after NPCIL complied with all the conditions laid by it.

A specially-designed robotic arm then began loading 163 bundles of enriched uranium fuel on September 18 and the process was completed on October 2.

Commissioning of the first unit was originally scheduled for December 2011 but had to be put off due to protests.

PTI

[Sanku]

A tweet from BC

IRSN study says a French nuclear accident would cost $580 billion. But to sell reactors, Paris asks Indian public to bear accident liability

The blatant hypocrisy is amazing.

[chaanakya]

India's power generation grew by 5.2% in December 2012

Sushma U N, TNN | Feb 1, 2013, 03.36PM IST


CHENNAI: India's power generation grew by 5.2 from 73.3 billion units in December 2011 to 77.1 billion units in December 2012, according to the data released by Central Electricity Authority (CEA).

The growth in power generation was mainly driven by higher generation from thermal power plants, which contribute over 80% to the country's power generation.

In December 2012, thermal power generation increased by 7.3% over the previous year to 67.8 billion units. During the month, coal-based power generation rose by 13.1%.

Gas-based generation, however, fell by 36.6, the thirteenth month in a row in which the gas-based generation fell. Shortage of natural gas impacted the performance of gas-based power plants.

Hydel power generation continued its downward trend, falling by 10.1 to 6.6 billion units in December 2012.

During the month, major hydel power generating states namely, Jammu & Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh and Uttarakhand reported around 3% growth in hydel power generation.

However, this was not sufficient to offset the steep fall in generation reported by Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu.

In December, hydel power generation in Karnataka fell by 28.2%, whereas that in Tamil Nadu and Kerala declined by 50-60%.

Nuclear power stations in India generated 2.7 billion units of power in December 2012, a mere 0.7% higher compared to a year ago, the report said.

Lower output from Rajasthan Atomic power station (RAPS) and delay in commissioning of Kudankulam nuclear power project resulted in a slower growth in nuclear power generation.

According to the report, growth in power generation is expected to pick-up in the March 2013 quarter. Higher availability of coal, improvement in hydel power generation and completion of unit 1 of Kudankulam power plant will push total power generation upwards.

In 2012-13 as a whole, total power generation is expected to grow by 6%, the report said.

[Mort Walker]

^^^Demonstrates why articles like that are crappy.

1 unit = 1 KWhr : A unit of energy not power.
Power is production is expressed in Millions of Watts (MW).

It is better to see this report that states about 210,951 MW installed capacity as of Dec. 2012.
http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... ec12/8.pdf

[chaanakya]

Perhaps you wanted to say
1 Unit = 1 KWhr or Kwh as is simply known. i.e. one unit of electricity generated one Kw power generated for one hour. That is how it is commercially measured.

[chaanakya]

Actually upi should have looked at this report. It talks of electricity generation and causes of concerns. few months old,
http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... /sep12.pdf


or perhaps this one


http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... ec12/6.pdf

[Amber G.]

^^^Demonstrates why articles like that are crappy.

1 unit = 1 KWhr : A unit of energy not power.
Power is production is expressed in Millions of Watts (MW).

It is better to see this report that states about 210,951 MW installed capacity as of Dec. 2012.
http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... ec12/8.pdf

Thanks for pointing that out. Unfortunately this kind of pure nonsense, where the author/editor can't even get the "unit" right is quite prevalent in lot of articles one sees.

Close to home, one sees this kind of "math" even brf posts.. For example, I have even seen, (no I am not making it up) where some one was using 'Watt per hour ' as unit of energy.

Again thanks for pointing it out.

[Sanku]

There are people here when told, "the sky is fallin" -- will sit around for 3 years congratulating each other in understanding that falling was misspelt

[chaanakya]

There are people here when told, "the sky is fallin" -- will sit around for 3 years congratulating each other in understanding that falling was misspelt

Have belief in three stooges of Nuclear power.

[pentaiah]

Close to home, one sees this kind of "math" even brf posts.. For example, I have even seen, (no I am not making it up) where some one was using 'Watt per hour ' as unit of energy.

That was miss spellin. it should have been "what per hour"

[Theo_Fidel]

Come now should we bring up the 'exploding' solar panels claim by certain folks.... ..I'm not making this up either....

BTW what happened to the implied claim of 1 kg of Uranium being the same radiation wise as 1 kg of brazil nuts. Whyfor we have all these 'crazy' IAEA regulations on every gram of Uranium. All international agency moorakh's onlee...
-------------------------------------

Meanwhile the main point of the articles posted is being missed.

6 AREVA plants are being sold for Rs 3,50,000 Crore. Think about that for a moment folks. This is /Rs53 ~ $66 Billion. Roughly equal to our entire defence budget. All funneled through an agency that is renown for no performance and inability to adequately manage projects. The Kaiga dome collapse report in particular was stinging. AFAIK no real managment improvements have been made, witness the continuing delays and spiraling costs in say the PFBR.

So 6x1,650= 9,900 MWe of installed capacity. Let me round it off to 10,000MWe of capacity. So rough overnight cost at present is $6.6 Million per MWe of capacity which is ~ Rs 35 crore per MWe of capacity. Some were earlier making the optimistic claim that these reactors will 'onlee' cost Rs 20 crore per MWe of capacity. I hope they are roundly disabused of this.

A quick run through an IRR calculator says that at 10% Interest rate cost and assuming some conservative values, the Minimum tariff for break even, not profits mind you, break even is = Rs 7.5 per kw. This is assuming zero T&D loses and zero parasitic loads.

So what now babu-log. You can see why there is the desperate push to drop it by 20%. This is the only way to get the euphemistic estimated cost tariffs below the cost of say recent Solar bids. Folks we are being had and taken for a ride with sums far far larger than 2G at stake. Hence the desperate spinning on Why Poo Here...

[Prem]

Obama to push for nuclear treaty
Haath Na pahunche thoo Kaurri. Lomri Smelling Again

[Mort Walker]

BTW what happened to the implied claim of 1 kg of Uranium being the same radiation wise as 1 kg of brazil nuts. Whyfor we have all these 'crazy' IAEA regulations on every gram of Uranium. All international agency moorakh's onlee...

This is more about power politics from the NSG. As former BRF poster AlokN pointed out, any dual use technology capable of handling materials with an atomic weight of 85 or greater was subject to the sanctions regime. This could have been from oscilloscopes and computer chips to heavy machinery.

[chaanakya]

I don’t mean to suggest that radioactive materials are harmless. Indeed, consider the story of scavengers in Goiania, Brazil, who found and dismantled an abandoned radiotherapy machine in 1987. The machine contained 1,400 curies of cesium-137. (A curie is the radioactivity of one gram of radium.) Two men, one woman, and one child died from acute radiation poisoning; 250 additional people were contaminated. Several of the 41 houses evacuated could not be cleaned adequately and were demolished.

A case of selective reading and highlighting.
However some recent study suggests different effect, not so benign, of radiation, especially ionizing type.

Quite recent study on Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors

Study of Atomic-Bomb Survivors: Even lower levels of ionizing radiation exposure may lead to soft tissue cancers

[arnab]

Actually upi should have looked at this report. It talks of electricity generation and causes of concerns. few months old,
http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... /sep12.pdf


or perhaps this one


http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... ec12/6.pdf

Interesting how the report shows that the PLF of the coal power plants (67%) were significantly lower (and declining) than the nuclear plants' PLF (78% and increasing). Nuclear would have been even higher (closer to 90%) except for the one outlier - Narora achieving a PLF of 49% due to maintenence, which skewed the nuclear PLF statistics.

It also states that the estimated coal shortages for the existing coal plants in 2012-13 was 79 million tonnes. Of this around 47 million tonnes would be met through imports.

[chaanakya]

Yes that is correct. One can draw many conclusions from it.One could be as plf relates to existing plant it makes sense to improve plf of thermal plants where investment would be significantly less than the cost of setting up new thermal or even nuclear plant and would take considerable time to come online. In fact due to major share in the total electricity generation even one percent increase would amount to more electricity by marginal investment.

Difference in electricity generated between thermal and nuclear is of 9 or ten times . One percent improvement in plf of thermal power plants amounts to 5600 MU which would be 20% of total electricity generation by Nuclear which is already at 78-90 % plf and one percent improvement in plf in their case amounts to 247 MU.

However this is not an argument against setting up of new plants in either sector. other factors are needed to be considered as well.

If you see the new capacity addition against the targets
15 GW for thermal and achieved 9.5 Gw (62%)
2GW for Nuclear and achieved 0 GW ( 0%) ( of course there are other extraneous factors but then setting up of nuclear power plants take anywhere between 10-20 years by IST so we are going to pay lip service and cross no more that 5-7% of total installed capacity on any give date which might imply setting up of 10-20 GW in 30 years time if everything goes as planned by optimistic scenario. That should keep everyone interested and engaged. Meanwhile AERB would be working feverishly to draw up a plan to store radioactive wastes somewhere on a or the planet)

http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... 12/1-2.pdf

[Theo_Fidel]

Lets also not forget that several plants have been notably 'derated' from their nameplate capacity. Narora and Kalpakkam in particular. Also not included is the parasitic load which has been rising. This PLF is partly a creation of statisticians and partly access to foreign uranium. This causes the odd situation of plf rising but nuclear contribution to total generation still declining. Even Kudankulam will not prevent this continuing decline.

Also plant maintenance is not an 'outlier', it is a required item.

[nelson]

Theo
Why are you stating information without any quote or link. When someone pointedly asked you for source, you switch forum or thread? And to appear credible you give the guesstimate in '000 crore rupees and convert it 'billion $ before 'calculating' LCOE in rupees again.

Extrapolating cost from Flamonville project or any project in the US, may not be good practice. You can expect us to believe your numbers if your source is reliable, at the least.

[SSridhar]

BARC technologies for rural areas - The Hindu

The Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Mumbai, is launching a technology transfer initiative to boost rural development in and around Madurai. The thrust areas will be water, agriculture, food processing, storage and preservation and solid waste management.

A high-level team comprising scientists from the Technology Transfer and Collaboration Division of BARC is visiting Madurai from February 18 to 20 to demonstrate affordable technologies to farmers, entrepreneurs, officials, students, women self-help groups and non-governmental organisations.

The technology transfer campaign is being spearheaded through AKRUTI (Advanced Knowledge and Rural Technology Implementation Initiative) of BARC and Department of Atomic Energy. J. Daniel Chellappa, Senior Scientist and Technical Coordinator, BARC, told The Hindu on Thursday that the nuclear power plant had several “spin-off” technologies which could trigger rural development and make villages self-reliant. “We have a technology package which helps in revenue generation and livelihood opportunities for rural people. It is affordable and facilitates production in the rural areas itself,” he said.

According to Mr. Chellappa, the basic principle of technology transfer is that all sections would benefit from it. Foldable solar driers for farmers, shelf-life increasing technology for onions and preservation models are available. “Our scientists will identify the local needs and give orientation to officials in the rural development wing.”

[arnab]

2GW for Nuclear and achieved 0 GW ( 0%) ( of course there are other extraneous factors but then setting up of nuclear power plants take anywhere between 10-20 years by IST so we are going to pay lip service and cross no more that 5-7% of total installed capacity on any give date which might imply setting up of 10-20 GW in 30 years time if everything goes as planned by optimistic scenario. That should keep everyone interested and engaged. Meanwhile AERB would be working feverishly to draw up a plan to store radioactive wastes somewhere on a or the planet)

http://www.cea.nic.in/reports/monthly/e ... 12/1-2.pdf

Doesn't Bhabha's 3-stage vision take care of the waste-storage issue? Nobody is talking about replacing coal with nuke overnight (not even Kakodkar's presentation suggests that). The point is simple - coal costs are going to rise as will our dependence on external supplies. Add to this the logistics of transporting these from ports to the power stations and their general impact on the environment.

The fact is that Nuke will have to be a part of india's energy mix. An an analogy - when the steam engine was invented, horse drawn carts were a perfectly acceptable and safe method of moving people from place A to B. The cart technology was also known and had matured. People feared the concept of a steam engine. However, govenments persisted with it and it did revolutionise transportation of goods and people. Same for nuke energy - despite the manufactured fears

[Theo_Fidel]

Theo
Why are you stating information without any quote or link. When someone pointedly asked you for source, you switch forum or thread? And to appear credible you give the guesstimate in '000 crore rupees and convert it 'billion $ before 'calculating' LCOE in rupees again.

Extrapolating cost from Flamonville project or any project in the US, may not be good practice. You can expect us to believe your numbers if your source is reliable, at the least.

nelson, huh, what info.....
This is all public domain information. If you don't even know that much it is hard to have a conversation.....

Please follow the thread properly to see where I got the info. Its all right here in this thread itself. Unfortunately there is not enough time to respond to every request for info. Might be judicious in responding...

[disha]

nelson, huh, what info.....
This is all public domain information. If you don't even know that much it is hard to have a conversation.....

Please follow the thread properly to see where I got the info. Unfortunately there is not enough time to respond to every request for info. Might be judicious in responding...

I think Nelson is refering to the renewable energy thread.

theo, you posted numbers in the renewable energy thread without a single citation. You have been ducking requests to cite the numbers (several requests as such) in that thread.

Now if the above information is "public domain" it should be easy for you to cite it? Right? Can you do that? Cite proof for your own numbers? Do some research on "public domain" and try to back up your numbers. Otherwise what you say is pure windbagging.

Anyway, you have not even expressed regret of the death of an Indian due to turds like udhay kumar. Why? You have nothing critical to say about mao'ist goons like udhay kumar?

[VinodTK]

Canada keen to start uranium supplies to India: Envoy

[chetak]

Canada keen to start uranium supplies to India: Envoy

aaaaaaaaah!

Nothing like the smell of freshly minted money to get the canadians going. So much for their ideology. Ditto australia. Bloody creeps.

[Austin]

Cable thickness, personnel activity 'gave away' India's 1995 n-test plan to US

[Bade]

http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/104/04/0414.pdf

Mountain tunnelling, aquifer and tectonics – a case study of Gran Sasso and its implications for the India-based Neutrino Observatory
— Padmanabhan, V. T. ; Makkolil, Joseph

Not nuclear related as it relates to the INO project, but there is a pattern here. check the affiliation of the leading author. Someone wants to shut down the INO project.

[RoyG]

http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/104/04/0414.pdf

Mountain tunnelling, aquifer and tectonics – a case study of Gran Sasso and its implications for the India-based Neutrino Observatory
— Padmanabhan, V. T. ; Makkolil, Joseph

Not nuclear related as it relates to the INO project, but there is a pattern here. check the affiliation of the leading author. Someone wants to shut down the INO project.

You're right. The same folks who want to put an end to our nuclear industry are probably at work to shut down our advances in particle physics.

Dr Joseph Makkolil, scientist with the Inter University Centre for Nanomaterials and Devices, Cusat and Gandhian and environmentalist K. Sahadevan, IT man Santhosh Kumar and farmers Nipun Varghese and Paulose are the members of the five-member brigade that has set out on this green mission.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130118/n ... ds-farming

[Bade]

A while ago it was tigers of Mudumalai, when tourists were flocking the region in droves, blaring horns and right in the elephant corridor. Still they got INO shunted out of there, and now they want it out of Theni too. Darjeeling has political turmoil, Himalayas other issues related to logistics. Nilgiris area would have been ideal, tifr already operates there. Good infra close to Coimbatore, Mysore and Ooty.

[NRao]

Indian nuclear power capacity to shoot up

New Delhi, Feb 27: India's nuclear power capacity will rise from 4,780 MW now to 10,080 MW by 2017, parliament was informed on Wednesday.

Minister of State in the Prime Minister's office V. Narayanasamy said this in the Lok Sabha.

He said in 2011, the share of nuclear power generation was three percent of the total electricity production in India.

He said the 2017 target would be met with the progressive completion of four ongoing projects of 5,300 MW capacity.

He said the 12th Five Year Plan proposals envisaged start of work on 19 new nuclear power reactors with a total capacity of 17,400 MW.

[merlin]

A while ago it was tigers of Mudumalai, when tourists were flocking the region in droves, blaring horns and right in the elephant corridor. Still they got INO shunted out of there, and now they want it out of Theni too. Darjeeling has political turmoil, Himalayas other issues related to logistics. Nilgiris area would have been ideal, tifr already operates there. Good infra close to Coimbatore, Mysore and Ooty.

Personally I'm extremely happy that INO got booted out of Mudumalai.

[Bade]

Can you explain why ? It is not like the INO's foot print is going to be bigger than that of all those revelers from B'lr with family in tow.

[merlin]

Can you explain why ? It is not like the INO's foot print is going to be bigger than that of all those revelers from B'lr with family in tow.

Revelers can be banned whenever necessary but once INO is there you can't remove it. And you severely overestimate the impact of revellers who are mostly seasonal and the massive increase in rates for everything from hotels/safaris etc. has reduced the revellers count.

The massive amount of disturbance building the INO will cause is also detrimental to wildlife and the forests.

For me bottom line is that India has less than 5% protected area and that should not be used for *anything* except forests and wildlife unless Indian civilization faces an existential crisis which cannot be resolved without using those areas.

[Aditya_V]

Theni is fine, but Wayanad, Mudumalai, Bandipur, Bramhagiri, Nagarhole, Silent Valley, Mukurthi, Talmalai(sathyamangalam), BRT, Cauvery, Erode forest division, Melagiri hills - 5000 KM Niligiri is one of the Few critical Biosphere reserves with the Largest single Tiger and Elephant sanctuary in this country.

Building Neutreno Observatories, Railway lines is not sensible. for comparison it is like US doing similar work in Yellow stone of South Africa doing it in Kruger Or Kenya in Masai Mara.

Theni is much more suitable for this

[Bade]

Merlin, the lab will house less than a 100 people at the site underground. That place in Masinagudi already had a power generation project in situ. So it would have been co-located. It is a one time construction under the massif. The roads are already built by the TN govt. Nothing new would have been necessary. No one was asking for a 3+3 lane road access to destroy the ecosystem. When you have a Hydel project in place already for the last two decades, what more damage can a small cavern do.

By making such arguments, you are giving more credence to the arguments made by Kudankulam protestors, ironically.

Aditya, Theni is ok too but the earlier site selection was done for the right overhang to filter out unwanted background and keeping logistics need in mind, power, road, water etc.

Like you cannot do radio astronomy sitting in Blr, you need to go to a radio-free area.

[merlin]

There is something seriously wrong with us as a country if we cannot even leave the less than 5% PAs alone.

[Sanku]

By making such arguments, you are giving more credence to the arguments made by Kudankulam protestors, ironically.
.

Actually, many of the "arguments" that the protesters have put forth are not wrong, neither are the concerns. The issues in KKNPP have been the "methods" and the "intent" --> where clearly the protesters have not bothered to really find a common ground and the idea is to disrupt rather than collaborate.

However that does not mean that all those who raise similar issues become protesters or they become justified.

[Bade]

^^ That sounds a selective choice of approved methods based on personal whims.

If one is serious about human footprint, the first place to look at is controlling the population. Say for the Nilgiris the Ooty area, bring the forests back instead of the plantations all along the ghats. It looks nice and feels nice to see the green carpets of ghat plantations, they were all part of the elephant and tiger corridors.

Here we are talking of a small cavern and a 100 people at most working in rotation. Most of the students and researchers will be hardly visiting the site regularly.