Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Aug 2014 06:10

Kiev junta dissolves...! Portents of imminent defeat,thus avoiding a rebellion in parliament?

One has to hand it to Grand Master Putin.He has played his moves on the board brilliantly.Some time ago I speculated that the UKR forces might be moving into a trap,extending their lines of communications and logistics.They were enticed into advancing with apparent easy victories,retreating DPR militias,only to find them selves now encircled on the eve of the meeting between the Chocolate soldier and Pres.Putin in Minsk!
The Kiev pretender will now find himself given "an offer he can't refuse".Surrender of his forces or face annihilation.The deal for their safe return would be a total withdrawal of all UKR mil. forces from the east and constitutional reforms for a federal state,where the east can choose their eco ties with Russia,and the western half their own closer to the EU.No NATO membership of the UKR ,etc.,etc. The UKR would be promised continued supplies of energy at an agreed upon rate ,but the Crimea is a lost cause.That is the price the asinine UKR neo-Nazis have to "pay the piper",Pres.Putin.

Russia has plucked the Crimea (which was always Russian) like a child picking a cherry from the tree.Neutralising the east,turning the UKR into a buffer zone is what Putin wants.Poroshenko is a cretin if he thought he and his crew of thugs could outsmart Putin and Russia.I wonder which oligarch he is taking with him to Belarus.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Aug 2014 06:22

Russia always sends a strong message to these pipspeaks of nations who try to mess with it on the behest of certain world powers.

The russians never withdrew their forces from the russian ethinic areas in Georgia after Georgia's haramigiri at massa's behest
For Ukraine's haramigiri, Crimea was taken over, now Eastern Ukraine will forever be used to control Kiev.

I propose that India use the same policy while dealing with Pakistan. Any transgression should be responded with a sound thappad and loss of Territory in POK. That will continue to show to the mango paki, how truly impotent their fauj really is.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 26 Aug 2014 07:40

Interesting links: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... umiliation

Brookings admitting defeat? Oh, mein gott! http://www.brookings.edu/research/%20ar ... addy-ickes

Whats happening to the world nowadays?

Roberto Orsi's take: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/eurocrisispress/ ... xperiment/

Another cookie: http://en.reseauinternational.net/ukrai ... ts-defeat/

Chocolate meets steel today. Hope he has a towel handy.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Aug 2014 07:50

Several months ago I would have agreed with Phillip's description of Putin's aims. But not after the UkBapZis invaded East Ukraine with tanks and missiles and warplanes, and burned so many people to death. If the East Ukrainis now manage to run the UkBapZis out, they will not be satisfied with anything short of independence, and they are too small, so they will federalize with Russia, not with Ukraine. They have no hope of getting a fair deal in Kiev; they would be crazy to accept Kiev rule now. Surely Comrade Vlad sees that?

So military victory is the way to go - linking up with Crimea in the south would be the first step to liberate the entire southeast, then push up north and complete the liberation.

I think Beige Boyz Convoyz # 2 and 3 will also be 400% HyooMan-Eaterian, but may push increasingly closer to the frontlines/ ambush dangers. The West will cry Wolf each time, and then shut up.

If something happens to Convoy 4, that will be the excuse for Convoy 5 to have a full armored escort, and be led by attack helicopters, jet fighters and paratroopers. The UkBapZis will have no option since they can't get back across the Dneiper, and will have to surrender, leaving Marshal Zhukov and Marshal Koniev at the banks of the Dneiper, looking across and ~~smiling~~ leering at Chicken Kiev.

What does Chokolat mean, most of the Parliament members are Rebels? He is going to replace all Easterners with Right Sector? Even Merkel may not stand for that.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Aug 2014 17:03

Good Interview with Sergei Lavrov

Sergei Lavrov: The truth must be revealed

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Aug 2014 23:45

Video Proof Of Russian Military In ChUkraine Emerges
Chukrutians Challenge

We’ve all known for months that Putin has been support the pro-Russian separtists in Eastern Ukraine, despite his denials. They had weapons, funding and ground support that couldn’t have come from anywhere but Moscow, but there was never obvious and irrefutable evidence.Until now.Today, Ukraine released video footage of what it said were 10 captured Russian soldiers. The men, under interrogation, identified themselves as Russian soldiers captured on Ukrainian territory. They gave their names and military serial numbers and said they had been sent to Ukraine by their superiors after initially being told they were going on a training exercise.“Everything was a lie. There were no drills here,” one of the captured Russians, Sergey A. Smirnov, told a Ukrainian interrogator. According to the New York Times, Smirnov said he and other Russians from an airborne unit in Kostroma, in central Russia, had been sent on what was described initially as a military training exercise but later turned into a mission into Ukraine.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2014 01:12

OK, now that the Putin-cat is out of the bag, why not follow the bag up with a lot of vodka bottles?
Then again, probably these guys are UkBapZi-hired actors.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 27 Aug 2014 07:02

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28940095

The pic says it all. However, what is Chocolate trying to do there?

Putin is doing a typical Russian bear move and sizing up opponent and mocking him?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Aug 2014 07:07

Here is more if you want to analyze body language. Chocolate soldier looks pissed.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 27 Aug 2014 07:39

Following the developments in west Asia dhaaga, its all coming together, as to why Russia is kept busy with Ookrane. Checkmate.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Aug 2014 21:41

Interview with Sergei Glaziev - Advisor to President Putin

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Aug 2014 01:53

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 92342.html
Ukraine crisis: Vladimir Putin threatens trade sanctions over neighbour's EU trade deal

Russian President Vladimir Putin has urged his Ukrainian counterpart not to escalate an offensive against pro-Moscow rebels, and threatened economic retaliation for signing a trade accord with the European Union.

At the leaders’ first meeting since June, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko replied by demanding a halt to arms shipments from Russia to the separatist fighters.

The pair shook hands at the start of talks in the Belarussian capital Minsk, only hours after Kiev said it had captured Russian soldiers engaged in a “special mission” on Ukrainian territory.

A day after announcing that it had detained 10 Russian paratroopers who crossed the border in a column of armed infantry vehicles, Ukraine released video of its captives.

In footage posted on the official Facebook page of the Ukrainian government’s “anti-terrorist operation”, the men were shown dressed in camouflage fatigues. One of them, who identified himself as Ivan Milchakov, listed his personal details, including the name of his paratroop regiment, which he said was based in the Russian town of Kostroma.

“I did not see where we crossed the border. They just told us we were going on a 70km [45 mile] march over three days,” he said in the video. “Everything is different here, not like they show it on television. We’ve come as cannon fodder.”

Another man in the footage, who gave his name as Sergeant Aleksei Generalov, said: “Stop sending in our boys. Why? This is not our war.”

Social media accounts belonging to several of the men showed them in camouflage or paratroop uniform.

Four men who said they were Russian servicemen in stills from a video released by Ukraine
Russian news agencies quoted a Defence Ministry source as confirming that Russian servicemen had crossed into Ukraine but saying they did so inadvertently. “The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained,” the source said.

Ukraine rejected that explanation. “This wasn’t a mistake, but a special mission they were carrying out,” military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said in a televised briefing.

Moscow has long denied charges by Kiev that it has been sending weapons and fighters to help the separatists in eastern Ukraine. The United States and European Union have backed Kiev by imposing sanctions on Moscow in a standoff that has prompted both Russia and Nato to step up military manoeuvres.

Mr Putin said: “We are convinced that today, [the Ukraine crisis] cannot be solved by further escalation of the military scenario without taking into account vital interests of the south-eastern regions of the country and without a peaceful dialogue with its representatives.”
Video: Ukraine and Russia hold peace talks

He said the Russian economy could lose about 100bn roubles (£1.6bn) if European goods reached its markets via Ukraine after Kiev signed the trade deal with the EU in June. Moscow would retaliate with trade measures if that were to happen, Mr Putin added.

Mr Poroshenko responded by defending a peace plan he issued in June, when the rebels in the southeast Donbas region scorned his invitation to lay down their arms and leave by a safe corridor.

“The prime condition for a stabilisation of the situation in Donbas is the establishment of effective control over the Russian-Ukrainian border. It is vital to do everything to stop deliveries of equipment and arms to the fighters,” he said.

More than 2,000 people have been killed since April in the fighting, but the Ukrainian army has now largely pinned the rebels down in two eastern strongholds.

Baroness Ashton, the EU foreign policy chief, and the leaders of Belarus and Kazakhstan were also taking part in the Minsk meeting.

Mr Poroshenko pointedly mentioned the other participants by name in his opening remarks, but not Mr Putin, referring only to “the presence of the leadership of the Russian Federation”.
Reuters

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... peace-plan
Russia accused of new military incursions into Ukrainian territory
Putin denies discussion of 'peace plan', saying Ukraine is 'not our business'; Russians demand to know – are we at war?

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 28 Aug 2014 10:03

It almost looks like a real invasion:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world ... .html?_r=0

...in the small southeast border town of Novoazovsk, where Ukrainian forces beat a nervous retreat on Tuesday, under attack from what fleeing soldiers described as columns of tanks, artillery and combat troops coming across the border.

Exhausted, filthy and dismayed, some Ukrainian soldiers staggering out of Novoazovsk for safer territory said they were cannon fodder for the attacking forces. As they spoke, tank shells whistled in from the east and exploded nearby.

Some of the Ukrainian soldiers appeared unwilling to fight. The commander of their unit, part of the Ninth Brigade from Vinnytsia, in western Ukraine, barked at the men to turn around, to no effect. “All right,” the commander said. “Anybody who refuses to fight, sit apart from the others.” Eleven men did, while the others returned to the city.

Some troops were in full retreat: A city busload of them careened past on the highway headed west, and purple curtains flapped through windows shot out by gunfire.

Reminds me of Georgia 2008. Still, I have to say I'd be surprised if the Russians were fully committing.

But if the Russians really are intervening in force, I wouldn't read too much into reports of Ukrainian troops routing. That's just the initial shock; you can expect forward elements of the Ukrainian forces in the east to wither away in the face of any real Russian assault. However the bulk of Ukraine's combat-capable forces have been kept back in reserve, waiting for just this eventuality. We're talking 80,000 troops and paramilitaries with a heck of a lot of firepower, benefiting from all kinds of covert US support including satellite intel and electronic eavesdropping. When you add up the 50,000 Ukrainian troops already engaged in Donbass plus the additional 80,000 waiting in reserve, it's clear the 80,000-strong Russian force in theatre is inadequate to the task of actually invading. Putin's going to have to get serious and mobilize more forces.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 28 Aug 2014 10:03

Was watching RT today to assess what the Russians are planning. Seems like Putin is going to seize the solution out of the dead frozen hand of the Chocolate Hero. Poroshenko will become phamous as the person who lead Ukr into sure death and no glory. Apparently the Russian winter does not stop at Russian borders and slithers into Ukraine too.

Ukr. GDP is down by 7.5% this year and they are not supplying gas (in summer) in the capital city - saving it for winters. IMF is perhaps the only source of cash and it may not be much.

Napoleon, Hitler... now the Chocolate Hero.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Aug 2014 10:05

Spot on Ravi!
Media reports say that the UKR is now begging NATO for help after suffering severe reverses and the opening up of a new front by the DPR in the south which will give them a direct link to the Crimea and Russian territory,full control over the Sea of Azov.UKR troops are fleeing ragged and shattered ,abandoning their mil eqpt. including armour.UKR troops meanwhile are also fleeing to Russia as "refugees" ,fleeing the field of battle.With such demoralisation in the ranks,the retreat could turn into a rout.

http://rt.com/news/
Over 60 Ukrainian troops cross into Russia seeking refuge
Published time: August 28, 2014

A group of 62 Ukrainian troops have crossed into Russia’s Rostov Region seeking shelter to save their lives amid an intensified counteroffensive recently launched by anti-Kiev militia in southeastern Ukraine.

“Today, 62 servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces turned to Russian border guards asking to let them into the Russian territory near Russia’s settlement of Shramko, Matveyevo-Kurgansky district, with the aim to save their lives,” the spokesman for the FSB's border guard office in the Rostov Region, Nikolai Sinitsyn, told Itar-Tass news agency on Wednesday.

They were allowed to cross and provided with a transit corridor on the principles of humanism, but only after they left their weapons on the Ukrainian side of the border, Sinitsyn added.

This case became the latest in a series of similar incidents where a total of over 500 Ukrainian troops crossed into Russia since July seeking refuge and medical help.

Earlier this week, Ukraine released videos showing alleged Russian paratroopers captured on Ukrainian territory. Russian Defense Ministry sources were saying that they probably crossed the border by mistake during a routine patrol of an area which wasn’t manned. President Putin, when asked about the issue said he hoped it won’t be blown out of proportion, since Ukrainian troops regularly cross into Russian territory, sometimes in armored vehicles and were never charged with anything and always allowed to return to Ukraine freely.

Kiev’s renewed accusations of Russian military’s alleged operations on Ukrainian territory are “nothing new,” says Kremlin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov, adding that Russia regularly refutes such reports. Meanwhile Kiev says it has launched a preliminary investigation into the detained men on suspicion of “aiding terrorist groups.”

This combination of handout pictures released by Ukrainian security service (SBU) press service on August 26, 2014 purportedly shows Russian paratroopers captured by Ukrainian forces near the village of Dzerkalne, Donetsk region (AFP Photo / SBU Press-Service / Str)

This combination of handout pictures released by Ukrainian security service (SBU) press service on August 26, 2014 purportedly shows Russian paratroopers captured by Ukrainian forces near the village of Dzerkalne, Donetsk region (AFP Photo / SBU Press-Service / Str)

Ukraine’s own troops in the meantime are also facing prosecution, with General Prosecutor’s office announcing on Wednesday that 1,083 criminal proceeding had been launched since the beginning of the so-called anti-terrorist operation, with people being charged for “disobedience, unauthorized abandonment of a military unit or place of service, desertion, evasion of military service in another way, and so on.”

Anti-Kiev militia in the meantime announced that almost 90 Ukrainian troops laid down their arms and surrendered on Wednesday alone, following at least 129 the day before, Ria reports.

On Sunday, the main headquarters of the Donetsk People’s Republic announced that it had launched a counteroffensive against Kiev’s “punitive forces” in the region, blocking and surrounding many of the military and paramilitary units.

The military equipment captured from local army depots and those forces surrendering en masse has allowed militia to form 2 tank battalions, 3 multiple launcher rocket system batteries, 2 self-propelled howitzer batteries, 3 cannon battalions of various calibers and 8 mortar batteries, the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Donetsk People’s Republic Aleksander Zakharchenko told the press at the time.

The DPR army will no more act in small groups as instead full-bodied independent military units had been formed, he added, announcing the beginning of a major counter-offensive but at the same time calling on Ukrainian troops to surrender and leave the territory of the republic, promising absolute safety for everyone not involved in war crimes against the civilian population.

Ukraine has been engulfed in a violent internal conflict since April, when Kiev’s military began its crackdown on the southeast parts of the country which refused to recognize the coup-installed government.

According to United Nations’ estimates released Tuesday, over 2,249 people have so far been killed and over 6,033 wounded in the fighting in eastern Ukraine. The number of internally displaced Ukrainians has reached 190,000, with another 207,000 finding refuge in Russia, the UN said.

This is a huge number of refugees in Russia forces appears to be happening.why full scale support to the DPR

Clips on the BBC showed a burning Donetsk Cultural Centre,fired upon by the UKR forces.
http://rt.com/news/183240-ukraine-troops-russia-border/

http://rt.com/news/
Three civilians burnt alive in car as Ukrainian army shells center of Donetsk
Kiev forces have shelled residential areas in the center of the rebel-held town of Donetsk, killing at least three people and damaging several apartment blocks, a kindergarten and a cultural center. 117

This may explain in greater detail Russian strategy in the UKR.
‘Poroshenko wants to internationalize the situation and turn it into a conflict between Ukraine and Russia’
http://rt.com/op-edge/183112-russia-ukr ... tions-gas/
Published time: August 27, 2014

Russia does not consider itself party to the conflict in Ukraine, seeing it as a conflict between the Eastern Ukrainians and the Kiev, while Poroshenko’s analysis of the situation is totally different, legal expert and blogger Alexander Mercouris told RT.

RT: President Poroshenko has used some quite strong words to describe this meeting. Do you expect the fate of the whole world is really being decided in Minsk? And will it play a decisive role in ending the Ukrainian crisis?

Alexander Mercouris: No, I don’t actually. I think this is an exploratory meeting between the Ukrainians and Russians which has happened after a great deal of international pressure and is probably to be explained to some extent by the deteriorating situation in Ukraine itself. The economy there is going very badly wrong, the military situation is not good, and this is having broader repercussions for Europe. So there is a push from various people to try and come to some sort of rearrangement, but I think to talk about this being the solution to a great crisis that is endangering the whole peace in Europe is to overdramatize the importance of this meeting.

RT: Why do you think Vladimir Putin devoted most of his opening speech to economics, unlike his Ukrainian counterpart, who right away spoke about the conflict in Ukraine?

AM: The fundamental difference is that the Russians do not consider themselves to be a party to the conflict in Ukraine. They see the conflict there as a conflict between the people in the Eastern Ukraine and the authorities who came to power in Kiev in February. So their analysis of the situation is totally different from the one of Poroshenko and of the people in Kiev who want to internationalize the question and turn it into a conflict between Ukraine and Russia. That is why you see a totally different approach from the two presidents.

RT: Russia, the EU and Ukraine have a number of economic differences to sort out - gas, for example. Do you think this summit will end that deadlock?

AM: The great problem with the gas issue is that Ukraine is in very heavy arrears on its gas. And I think what the Russians will be looking for is some commitment from Ukraine; I mean hard cash to actually pay off these arrears before they are prepared to compromise further on the gas price issue. The problem is at the moment that Ukraine has very little, if any, money left at all. Partly because it has been using the money it has been getting from the organizations like the IMF to fight the war in the east instead of stabilizing its economy. I am sure that Mr. Putin in private discussions that he is to have with Mr. Poroshenko is going to point that out.

RT: Before the summit, the German Chancellor said that Ukraine has to strike a balance between its European leanings and good relations with Russia. We've heard President Putin say Russia will have to end preferential treatment of Ukraine should it strike a deal with the EU. Can Ukraine really play both sides after that?

AM: The trouble with this is that it might have been possible once, but it is going to be very difficult now because first of all, the EU Association Agreement to which Ukraine has now committed itself frankly closes off this option, it makes Ukraine part of the European single market, and it is very difficult to see how Ukraine can simultaneously continue in the previous trade arrangements that it had with Moscow. Secondly, doing that also totally flies in the face of what the whole Maidan movement in Ukraine had been about, this is to turn away from Moscow and towards Europe. So to say now, after all that has happened over all these months, all the violence that has been in Ukraine, that maybe after all Ukraine needs to find a balance between Russia and the EU, is very late. And probably, in my opinion, too late for that to happen.

In other words,"pay up or else"....Gen.Winter is fast approaching.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Aug 2014 11:31

probably the best Ukr units are held west of the volga. the ones being sent to the east are second string units and volunteer militias to act as cannon fodder if anything bad happens. there are however artillery and rocket units which would need proper armymen to operate effectively so its not all second string.

the donetsk-luhansk-novoazov belt appears to be the only area of ukraine marked green in google maps.
must be plenty of forests there.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 28 Aug 2014 12:42

Washington Post says that formal fighting between Ukrainian and Russian troops have begun.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/rus ... story.html

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Aug 2014 12:54

^^ When ever rebels make any advance NATO cries full scale invasion , when Ukr troops makes advance its victory over terrorist .....same usual tape rewinds.

Expect the decibal level to go up till next week where NATO sumit is going to be help , Ukraine is a good cover story for NATO expansion in East

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Aug 2014 15:00

the rebels need some SP MSTA type artillery to beat back the ukrainians. limited nos of grads or even smerches are not sufficient.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Aug 2014 19:24

War in east Ukraine to end in deadlock — NATO

BRUSSELS, August 28. /ITAR-TASS/. Combat operations in east Ukraine will end up in a complete deadlock and the eastern self-defense forces will keep the territories under their control now, Brigadier General Nico Tak, the director of NATO’s Comprehensive Crisis and Operations Management Center (CCOMC) said at a briefing Thursday.

The briefing was held at the headquarters of NATO’s Allied Command in Europe in the Belgian city of Mons.

Gen. Tak claimed that Russia was reinforcing and supplying the “separatist forces” in what he described as an attempt to change momentum of the fighting, as Russia’s presumable goal was to freeze the conflict.

He repeated NATO’s claims that Russian soldiers furnished with sophisticated combat equipment were operating inside the sovereign territory of Ukraine.

In addition, Gen. Tak said that the equipment was used by combat units that were coherent and well-trained.

He ruled out a possibility that the equipment might be operators by the Ukrainian military, who had changed sides in the dragged-out civil conflict.

“The foothold that has been created will be expanded and secured so that the separatists will not suffer a defeat,” Gen. Tak said.

Earlier in the day, NATO Command released a new batch of vague satellite photos with arrows and comments by NATO experts.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Aug 2014 19:26

I suspect now the goal of Russian/Sepratist makes sense to freeze the conflict for good ..that would make Ukraine impossible to get EU membership like NATO for eg

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 28 Aug 2014 20:27

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... elp-rebels
Poroshenko says that russian troops have invaded Ukraine. That means he now has very little hope of his army beating the rebels.

West has gotten all hyper and has gotits chaddis in a twist. `Ukraine is winning and about to join Nato` narrative has vanished too.
There is an emergency security council meeting.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0828/639813-ukraine/

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 28 Aug 2014 20:31

Austin wrote:I suspect now the goal of Russian/Sepratist makes sense to freeze the conflict for good ..that would make Ukraine impossible to get EU membership like NATO for eg

IMHO , the russian rebels are going to recapture slaviansk and most of the russian speaking region including Slaviansk if not more. Unless NATO intervenes or the Ukrainian army learns to fight, this counteroffensive s likely gonna break the back of an unwilling, unpaid, untrained and zero motivation Ukrainian army.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Aug 2014 20:36

Is General Nato trying to bluff the Russians by saying that the war will be "frozen" at PRESENT LOC?

The earlier assessment was that the UkBapZis had committed essentially all their combat resources in East Ukraine, which means across the Dnieper.

Rivers are still very major obstacles to a quick PA-style downhill (cross-country in this case) skiing exercise. If the bridges are down, and they don't have air superiority, they are dead meat. So the moment the tide really turns and they cannot go forward, and the ~~"rebels"~~Freedom Fighters / Vodka Couriers

get behind their lines (plenty of Cossacks there, remember? and plenty of Su-30-backed Antonovs to bring in paratroopers) the UkBapZi Army is on a Black Diamond slope skiing to doom. Surrender is the only option there.

There is palpable panic that the FF/VCs are reaching the southern coastline. There should be.

Is NATO saying that they will use NATO air power to enforce a ceasefire and LOC?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Aug 2014 21:27

Imo the entire south coast upto crimes could be a legitimate rebel aimpoint to open a land route to crimea from Russia.
This will also restrict Ukraine to a coast near turkey and the major port of Odessa.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Aug 2014 21:45

NATO Releases Satellite Imagery "Proof" That Russia Has Invaded Ukraine

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Aug 2014 22:11

The resolution of photo is just too low to prove the point , it seems we are in 1990 era.

I am sure NATO has 1 m or even sub meter resolution that it can share and its not like its state secret

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Aug 2014 22:25

Russian Defense Ministry Says List of Russian Military Units in Ukraine ‘Hoax’

MOSCOW, August 28 (RIA Novosti) –The list of Russian military units allegedly deployed in the conflict area in east Ukraine was a “hoax,” the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“We noted the release of this hoax information and we have to disappoint its authors overseas… The information in this material is absolutely untrue,” ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

Earlier in the day, Kiev claimed that Russian troops have entered Ukraine.

Russia denied the accusations, saying that “there are no Russian convoys” in Ukraine.

The UN Security Council will convene for an emergency meeting Thursday to discuss the situation in Ukraine.

Kiev authorities launched a special military operation in mid-April against independence supporters in the southeast of Ukraine, who refused to recognize the legitimacy of the country’s coup-imposed government.

Since the beginning of the military conflict, Kiev has been accusing Russia of sending troops and weaponry to independence supporters in the region.

Russia has repeatedly denied any involvement in the Ukrainian crisis, urging Kiev to stop the bloodshed and establish a direct dialogue with representatives of Luhansk and Donetsk regions.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Aug 2014 22:48

The resolution of photo is just too low to prove the point , it seems we are in 1990 era. I am sure NATO has 1 m or even sub meter resolution that it can share and its not like its state secret

How can u doubt NATO/US Intel? It is totally 400% genuine. Can't you recognize the tank tracks? And it is most definitely Ukraine!
(See the panzers and the Soviet tanks crisscrossing.. and the newspaper on the ground saying '1943') Don't tank tracks crisscross when they are all moving ASAP in the same direction on the way to the front? Hain? As opposed to during maneuvers?

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 29 Aug 2014 01:25

Good analysis of the Ukrainian situation. Putin Da Man.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea5e82fa-2e0c ... z3Bihw05qT

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 29 Aug 2014 04:51

UlanBatori wrote:The earlier assessment was that the UkBapZis had committed essentially all their combat resources in East Ukraine, which means across the Dnieper.

Reportedly most of the Ukraine's combat power (mechanized troops, air power, artillery, etc) is being held back in reserve. Supposedly they have about 50,000 troops fighting the separatists and another 80,000 in reserve (which are supposed to be better equipped). A big chunk of the Ukrainian units fighting the separatists aren't soldiers but paramilitary\militia including lots of neo nazi \ fascist and other thuggish types. These are reportedly the ones committing most of the atrocities.

Kiev is holding back their real military for the fight against Russia.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Aug 2014 05:03

Ha!Ha!Ha! Another master move by Grand Master Putin.Instead of exterminating the UKR troops caught in the "kill box",he wants them to be able to return safe and sound to their families.
How that will play to the heartstrings of the worried people of the UKR West,frantic about their loved ones trapped in the east,is utterly predictable.

The Chocolate zero is desperate and calling for "serious support" from his Western "supporters",and his cries of "don't panic,don't panic" to the Ukranian people reminds one of Corporal Jones in that immortal classic WW2 comedy series,Dad's Army!There is a steady groundswell of opposition building up against the Chocolate zero and short odds are on whether he can last out until Christmas! Will we have a coup for Christmas,with Poroshenko as the sacrificial turkey along with his Kiev chicken cronies as stuffing?

http://rt.com/news/183520-ukraine-russia-putin-militia/
Putin calls on Ukraine militia to let blocked Kiev troops to cross into Russia
Published time: August 28, 2014

President Putin has called on the self-defense militias in Ukraine to provide Kiev's military units blocked in the east of the country with a safe humanitarian corridor to cross into Russia.

“It is obvious that the militia has reached a considerable success in curbing Kiev’s military operation, that had been a deadly threat to the population of Donbass and already led to heavy casualties among civilians,” the Russian leader said in a statement.

As a result of militias’ counter-offense, large numbers of Ukrainian troops – many of whom were taking part in Kiev’s so-called anti-terrorist operation “against their will” and “just following orders” – have been surrounded, the President added.

“I urge the militias to open a humanitarian corridor for Ukrainian troops that were surrounded, in order to avoid meaningless victims and provide them with the opportunity to freely withdraw from the battlefield area, to be reunited with their families, to return to their mothers, wives and children,” Putin said.

READ MORE: ‘You abandoned us’: Ukrainian soldiers, their relatives accuse Kiev of neglect

Ukrainian troops have been routinely crossing into Russian territory over the course of the conflict seeking refuge from militia, who were pushing them towards the border, or after negotiating a safe passage from an encirclement. On Wednesday alone over 60 Kiev troops crossed into Russia, bringing the total number of those who fled to safety to over 600 men.

READ MORE: Over 60 Ukrainian troops cross into Russia seeking refuge

After getting medical help, if needed, Kiev’s troops were allowed to freely return to Ukraine. Not all of the did, however, fearing prosecution, as the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s office has launched over 1,000 investigations into those men on charges of disobedience, desertion and evasion of military service.

Russia in the meantime is ready and will provide aid to Ukraine’s regions suffering from a humanitarian disaster, the Russian leader added.

“Once again, I urge the Ukrainian authorities to immediately stop the fighting, stop the fire, sit down at the negotiating table with representatives of the Donbass [Region, Eastern Ukraine], to solve all the accumulated problems peacefully,” Putin said according to the Kremlin’s press service.

Meanwhile on Thursday, hundreds of people gathered in front of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry in Kiev, demanding resignation of President Petro Poroshenko and the defense minister over the poor handling of the military operation in the southeast. The demonstrators, many of whom were mothers and wives of the soldiers involved in the fighting in the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions, were in despair following the encirclement of large groups of Kiev’s troops.

READ MORE: 'Kiev, rise up!' Protesters demand ouster of Ukrainian president, defense minister

The Russian president’s call for a humanitarian corridor comes hours after the UN Security Council blocked a Russia proposed statement on a mutual ceasefire and peace talks in Ukraine – and just minutes after US President Barack Obama blasted at Russia and threatened it with more sanctions over its purportedly “direct role” in the Ukrainian crisis.

NATO's knickers in a twist as Kiev's mil. offensive crumbles.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... sion-claim
Ukraine: emergency UN, Nato, EU meetings after Russian invasion claim
Nato says 1,000 Russian troops fighting in Ukraine as Kiev accuses Moscow of de facto invasion and opening second front.

Shaun Walker in Kiev
The Guardian, Thursday 28 August 2014
A pro-Russian separatist and damaged war memorial at Savur-Mohyla, east of Donetsk. Russia denies it has troops in eastern Ukraine. Photograph: Maxim Shemetov/Reuters

World powers have called a succession of emergency meetings to step up the international response to Russia after Kiev accused Moscow of a de facto invasion and of opening up a second front in the conflict in eastern Europe.

The UN security council was meeting in emergency session, and Nato and EU leaders will consider

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Aug 2014 05:15

http://rt.com/news/183396-kiev-poroshen ... y-protest/

'Kiev, rise up!' Protesters demand ouster of Ukrainian president, defense minister
Published time: August 28, 2014 12:50
People try to burst into the Ukrainian Defense Ministry in Kiev during the rally on August 28, 2014. (AFP Photo / Sergei Supinsky)

Hundreds of people have gathered in front of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry in Kiev, demanding resignation of President Petro Poroshenko and the defense minister over the poor handling of the military operation in the southeast.

The demonstrators, many of whom were mothers and wives of the soldiers involved in the fighting in the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions, have blocked traffic at one of the capital’s arterial roads, the Vozdukhoflotsky Boulevard.

They called on the army to urgently send reinforcements, including tanks and other heavy military vehicles, to the city of Ilovaysk in the Donetsk Region.

This strategic town was retaken by the self-defense forces after several days of fighting on Wednesday, which led to the encirclement of a large group of Kiev’s troops.

READ MORE: Ukraine president blames military failure on deserting commanders

The protesters also insisted on the resignation of defense minister Valery Geletey and all other top commanders of Kiev’s so-called “anti-terrorist operation” in southeast Ukraine.

A man holds a placard " General Staff save Ukraine but not your asses!" during the rally in front of the Ukrainian Defence Ministery in Kiev on August 28, 2014.(AFP Photo / Sergei Supinsky)

A group of youths tried to hustle away the soldiers guarding the entrance to the building and make their way into the Defense Ministry, RIA-Novosti news agency reports.

But they were asked to stand down by other rally participants, who didn’t want their action to be discredited.

The commander of the Donbass battalion, fighting against the militia in southeast Ukraine, Semyon Semyontchenko, has talked to the crowd via a bullhorn, asking the protesters to “show unity.”

After several hours outside the Defense Ministry, the demonstrators moved toward the presidential administration building.

A police officer tries to prevent activists and relatives of soldiers who say that the soldiers are surrounded by self-defense forces in eastern Ukraine, from getting into the defence ministry building during a protest in Kiev August 28, 2014.(Reuters / Valentyn Ogirenko)

The protesters said that they would remain on the streets until their demands were met by the authorities.

Several hours later, the traffic on the Ukrainian capital’s main street, Khreshchatyk, was also paralyzed by demonstrators chanting: “Kiev, rise up!”

According to the Itar-Tass news agency, they urged all Kiev residents to join their protest, including recently elected mayor and former boxing world champion Vitaly Klitschko.

The demands at Khreshchatyk were similar – to impeach President Poroshenko and calling for the resignation of the country’s top military officials.

The mothers and wives of Ukrainian soldiers also blocked an inter-city highway in the town of Krivoy Rog.

The women said they were in despair as the situation within the Ukrainian military units fighting in the southeast is critical, Channel One reports.

“There’s no food, no water, no weapons. There’s lack of personnel,” said a female demonstrator, who was holding a banner that read, “Save our husbands!”

Ukraine has been engulfed in violent internal conflict since April, when Kiev’s military began its crackdown on southeastern regions of the country.

The Donetsk and Lugansk regions refused to recognize the new coup-imposed authorities and demanded federalization of the country.

According to United Nations’ estimates released Tuesday, over 2,249 people have so far been killed and over 6,033 wounded in the fighting in eastern Ukraine.

The number of internally displaced Ukrainians has reached 190,000, with another 207,000 finding refuge in Russia, the UN said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 97990.html

Xcpts:

At the UN meeting, Samantha Power, the US Ambassador to the UN, reminded her fellow ambassadors that this was “the 24th session to try to rein in Russia’s aggressive acts in the Ukraine”. She said Russia’s force along the border is the largest it has been since the Kremlin started deploying troops in late May.

The Russian Ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, hit back, saying Ukraine was “waging war against its own people”, but did not deny that his country’s soldiers were in Ukraine.

“There are Russian volunteers in eastern parts of Ukraine. No one is hiding that,” he said. But he questioned the presence of Western advisers and asked where Ukrainian troops were getting weapons.

Mr Churkin said he wanted to “send a message to Washington: stop interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign states”.

A Nato officer told reporters at its headquarters in Mons in Belgium: “Well over 1,000 Russian troops are now operating inside Ukraine. They are supporting separatists [and] fighting with them.” The officer showed reporters a satellite picture, dated 23 August, of Russian self-propelled artillery lined up inside eastern Ukraine.

“This is highly sophisticated equipment which requires a well-trained crew. It takes months to train crews like that. It’s extremely unlikely these sorts of units are manned by separatists,” he said.

“Russia is trying to prevent a defeat of the separatists and wants to hold on to this area. The recent upsurge and now direct involvement of Russian troops inside Ukraine is aimed at this.”

Alexander Zakharchenko, Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, told Reuters that about 3,000 Russian volunteers were serving in the rebel ranks.

“Today we reached the Sea of Azov, the shore, and the process of liberating our land, which is temporarily occupied by the Ukrainian authorities, will keep going further and further,” Mr Zakharchenko said in Donetsk, the main rebel stronghold in eastern Ukraine. “Taking [the port city of] Mariupol, the second-biggest town in Donetsk region, will allow us to expand our units by another five or seven thousand.”

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Aug 2014 10:48

Summarizing The West's Russia-Ukraine Propaganda

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Aug 2014 10:50

Obama threatens Russia with new sanctions over Ukraine

President Barack Obama acknowledged during an impromptu press conference on Thursday afternoon that the United States is considering new sanctions to impose against Russia over the escalating crisis in Ukraine.

From the White House, Pres. Obama told reporters that he’s certain Russia is playing a direct role in the ongoing fighting in eastern Ukraine between anti-Kiev separatists and the country’s military, and that the US is weighing further sanctions to intensify the restrictions previously waged against Moscow.

“As a result of the action Russia has already taken and the major sanctions we’ve imposed,” Obama said, “Russia is already more isolated than any time since the end of the cold war.”

“The separatists are backed, trained, armed, financed by Russia. Throughout this process we’ve seen deep Russian involvement in everything that they’ve done,” Obama added.

That behavior, he added, “will only bring more cost and consequences to Russia.” After speaking with allies, Obama continued, he expects a new wave of sanctions to come soon. The president is expected to meet with NATO partners next week, and said the US “will continue to stand firm with our allies and partners” to protect Ukraine from further encroachment.

“In our consultation with our European allies,” Obama said, “…my expectation is we will take additional steps, primary because we have not seen any meaningful action on the part of Russia to try and actually resolve this in a diplomatic fashion.”

Earlier Thursday, US State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said during a press conference that there are “additional tools and sanctions” being considered against Russia.

Psaki and the president’s remarks sandwiched a meeting of the United Nations Security Council in New York City, during which representatives from the US, United Kingdom, Australia and others all urged Russia to refrain from further escalating the situation near its border with eastern Ukraine.

“In the face of this threat, the cost of inaction is unacceptable," Samantha Power, the US ambassador to the UN, said during the meeting.

Vitaly Churkin, Power's Russian counterpart, deflected blame and warned the US: "Stop interfering in the affairs of sovereign states."

On his part, Pres. Obama added that the US has ruled out the possibility of a military response.

“We are not taking military action to solve the Ukrainian problem. What we’re doing is to mobilize the international community to apply pressure on Russia. But I think it is very important to recognize that a military solution for this problem is not going to be forthcoming,” he said.

“Ukraine is not a member of NATO, but a number of those states who are close by are,” he added, “and we take our Article Five commitments to defend each other very seriously — and that includes the smallest NATO member as well as the largest.”

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Aug 2014 11:00

Russia’s Defense Ministry ridicules NATO’s photo-proof of invasion in Ukraine

It makes no sense to comment in detail on the satellite imagery released by NATO as “proof” of Russia’s military involvement in Ukraine, Defense Ministry’s spokesman said, pointing out that even high NATO officials were hesitant to put their names on it.

Referring to NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Supreme Allied Commander Europe Philip Breedlove, and NATO Spokesperson Oana Lungescu, Russia’s Defense Ministry spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov ridiculed the so-called NATO proof.

“You know, it has become ridiculous… If earlier, someone would at least put their names on those images, be it Breedlove, Rasmussen, or even Lungescu, now, they are hesitant,” Konashenkov said as cited by RIA Novosti. “It makes no sense to seriously comment on this.”

The General also criticized western media outlets for accepting such images and anti-Russian stance at face value.

“The phrase ‘NATO published satellite shots of Russian troops' presence in Ukraine’ has become as common in recent months as the famous ‘British scientists have discovered…" Konashenkov said, referring to a media cliché often ridiculed in Russia. “Usually those words are followed by the results of some new crazy research that has no practical sense whatsoever.”

“Apparently, the new Secretary General of NATO in the near future will have to exert much effort in order to restore the severely tainted image of the alliance as a high-status international organization,” Konashenkov added.

A handout photo provided on August 28, 2014 by DigitalGlobe via NATO allegedly shows Russian self-propelled artillery units set up in firing positions, near Krasnodon, Ukraine (AFP Photo / HO / DigitalGlobe)

A handout photo provided on August 28, 2014 by DigitalGlobe via NATO allegedly shows Russian self-propelled artillery units set up in firing positions, near Krasnodon, Ukraine (AFP Photo / HO / DigitalGlobe)

The Defense Ministry statement follows a war-mongering media rhetoric blaming Russia for invading Ukraine, after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on Thursday, accused Russia for violating its sovereignty and called on the UN Security Council to assess the situation.

Simultaneous to Kiev's accusations, NATO made public satellite images that were offered as “proof” that Russian self-propelled artillery was on the Ukrainian territory, as well as about 1,000 Russian troops taking part in special operations in eastern Ukraine. The images, as usual, were provided by a commercial company DigitalGlobe operating civilian satellites. The images were not altered or edited with NATO experts only adding extra information for the general public to understand what they are looking for.

The US as always sided with Poroshenko's statements and NATO-offered evidence, with US Department of State spokesperson Jen Psaki saying that Washington has “no reason to doubt their [NATO's] assessment.”

Meanwhile both the head of OSCE’s Ukrainian monitoring team and Russia's representative said there was no Russian presence spotted across the Ukraine border, refuting claims that a full-scale invasion was underway.

On Thursday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Russian troops had entered Ukraine. The statement came as NATO released satellite images that it claimed showed Russian self-propelled artillery on Ukrainian territory. The alliance said about 1,000 Russian servicemen were taking part in hostilities in eastern Ukraine.

Russia's permanent representative to the EU Vladimir Chizhov also said neither NATO, the United States or the European Union have presented any evidence of Russian troop presence in the east of Ukraine.

According to him, the “stuffing of misinformation through the media and directly from Kiev” each time is carried out on the eve of important meetings at the EU level, this time ahead of the summit on August 30 in Brussels, “probably in anticipation of some critical language and even sanctions from the EU,” Itar-Tass quotes.

And indeed, US President Barack Obama joined the chorus of anti-Russian rhetoric on Thursday, warning Moscow that more sanctions are in the works as the US is currently in consultation with its “European allies” ahead of a NATO meeting next week.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Aug 2014 18:26

Putin likens Ukraine's forces to Nazis and threatens standoff in the Arctic
Russian president hits back at invasion accusations as Nato accuses Kremlin of 'blatant violation' of Ukraine's sovereignty
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... zis-arctic

Shaun Walker in Mariupol, Leonid Ragozin in Moscow, Matthew Weaver and agencies
theguardian.com, Friday 29 August 2014
The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has hit back at accusations that he has effectively invaded Ukraine, accusing Ukrainian forces of behaving like Nazis in the conflict in the east and ominously threatening to take his standoff with the west into the disputed Arctic.

Hours after Barack Obama accused Russia of sending troops into Ukraine and fuelling an upsurge in the separatist war, Putin retorted that the Ukrainian army was the villain of the piece, targeting residential areas of towns and cities like German troops did in the former Soviet Union.

He added that Russians and Ukrainians "are practically one people", reprising a theme of an earlier statement in which he referred to the disputed areas of south-eastern Ukraine as Novorossiya – a throwback to tsarist times when the area was ruled from Moscow.

And he made a pointed reference to the Arctic, which with its bounteous energy reserves and thawing waterways is emerging as a new potential conflict between Russia and its western rivals. "Our interests are concentrated in the Arctic. And of course we should pay more attention to issues of development of the Arctic and the strengthening of our position," Putin told a youth camp outside Moscow.

Russia's latest alleged interventions in Ukraine, in which it stands accused of sending as many as 1,000 soldiers and military hardware across the border to bolster the flagging separatist insurrection, has prompted a flurry of emergency meetings.

Nato ambassadors emerged from a meeting on Friday morning to accuse Russia of a "blatant violation" of Ukraine's sovereignty. "Despite Moscow's hollow denials, it is now clear that Russian troops and equipment have illegally crossed the border into eastern and south-eastern Ukraine," its secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen said.

Barack Obama convened his national security council on Thursday, and emerged to say that Moscow was responsible for the recent upsurge in violence, in which a new front has opened up in Ukraine's far south-east close to the city of Mariupol.

Speaking at a news conference in Washington, the US president said Russia was encouraging, training, arming and funding separatists in the region and warned Moscow that it faced further isolation.

He said: "Russia has deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine and the new images of Russian forces inside Ukraine make that plain for the world to see. This comes as Ukrainian forces are making progress against the separatists."
Obama Barack Obama: 'Russia has deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine'. Photograph: Manuel Balce Ceneta/AP

Obama again ruled out US military action, but threatened a further tightening of sanctions.

"As a result of the actions Russia has already taken, and the major sanctions we've imposed with our European and international partners, Russia is already more isolated that at any time since the end of the cold war," he said. "Capital is fleeing. Investors are increasingly staying out. Its economy is in decline." Financial markets echoed his words, and the ruble fell to an all-time low against the dollar on Friday morning.

Putin hit back by saying it was the Ukrainians who had failed to make peace happen. "It is necessary to force the Ukrainian authorities to substantively begin these talks – not on technical issues … the talks must be substantive," Putin said. "Small villages and large cities [are] surrounded by the Ukrainian army, which is directly hitting residential areas with the aim of destroying the infrastructure … It sadly reminds me the events of the second world war, when German fascist … occupants surrounded our cities."

For its part, Ukraine raised the stakes further on Friday morning when the prime minister, Arseny Yatseniuk, said he would try to take the country into Nato. Ukraine has formally maintained a position of non-alignment since its independence in 1991; the current crisis started over deep divisions in the country over whether to align itself more closely with the EU or turn towards the Russian camp.

The UN security council met on Thursday night, where the British ambassador, Mark Lyall Grant, repeated Nato assertions that Russia had deployed more than 1,000 troops in Ukraine. "Formed units of the armed forces of the Russian federation are now directly engaged in fighting inside Ukraine against the armed forces of Ukraine. These units consist of well over 1,000 regular Russian troops equipped with armoured vehicles, artillery and air defence systems," he said.

State department spokeswoman Jen Psaki amplified Obama's comments with details of Russia's involvement in Ukraine.

"Russia has … stepped up its presence in eastern Ukraine and intervened directly with combat forces, armoured vehicles, artillery, and surface-to-air systems, and is actively fighting Ukrainian forces as well as playing a direct supporting role to the separatists' proxies and mercenaries," she told a media briefing.

Samantha Power, US ambassador to the UN, accused Russia of lying about its involvement in Ukraine. "It has manipulated. It has obfuscated. It has outright lied," she said.

"The mask is coming off. In these acts, these recent acts, we see Russia's actions for what they are: a deliberate effort to support, and now fight alongside, illegal separatists in another sovereign country."

Russia's UN ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, responded: "There are Russian volunteers in eastern parts of Ukraine. No one is hiding that." Russia has denied that its troops are in Ukraine helping separatists fight the Ukrainian army.

The stakes are rising.Should Arsenic asininely try and take Ukraine into NATO,it would invite severe repercussions from Russia,which would view the act as direct aggression by NATO against Russia and could result in an open military intervention in the UKR.It is most interesting that the current greatest danger to world peace is the emergence of the utterly barbaric ISIS,threatening to take over much of the Middle East and its oil,and the US and its Arab allies strangely most reluctant to strike at it! It beggars the Q whether ISIS has all along a covert godfather or rich "Uncle",while instead the US and Euro-peons (reluctantly) rant and rave against Russia for their illegal overthrow of the democratically elected president of Ukr,Yanukovych,to absorb the UKR into the EU and NATO,which launched the UKR crisis in the first place.

Ever since the BRICS group was formed,there has been a distinct concerted pressure to discredit Pres.Putin and Russia,the driving force behind BRICS along with the other member nations.The establishment of the BRICS bank has only seen accelerated moves to counter Russia's growing economic and military strength as the only other superpower ,along with the superpower-in-the making,China,able to counter the US attempts at global hegemony.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Aug 2014 20:25

But which UK or US political leader is listening to the sound advice from their military?
Since this piece was written,the situ has dramatically worsened with ISIS's wave of military successes and barabaric acts.It is tragic that NATO is behaving just like the Paki ISI,in raising the bogey of Putin in order to justify its existence.As in another post on the official acknowledgement of the failute of UK and US intel in Iraq,Libya,Syria,etc, both "intelligence as well as Intelligence" are sorely required!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/defenc ... putin-nato

Islamist extremism, not Putin, is threat to west's security, say defence chiefs
• Nato has no role in Iraq, or Ukraine
• But Nato leader uses Putin in attempt to shake up western alliance

The greatest security threat to Britain, and other western countries, comes from militant Islamists in Iraq and Syria, according to governments in the west. Yet the world's most powerful military alliance can do nothing about it.

That truth is becoming increasingly evident every day. Thursday was no exception, as Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Nato's general secretary, made clear just how desperate a state the 28-nation western alliance is in. He stressed the danger posed by Vladimir Putin rather than the brutal groups fighting in the Middle East.

Two former British chiefs of defence, made it quite clear what they thought in evidence to the House of Commons defence committee on Wednesday.

Asked what he thought were the biggest threats facing the UK and its allies, Lord Stirrup described the danger of Middle East boundaries drawn up during the first world war unravelling, and the rise of China, as "major strategic shifts". What was happening in Ukraine was less significant, he said.

Lord Richards, who retired as Britain's defence chief last year, was more forthright. When MPs on the Commons defence committee,asked him about the greatest threat facing Britain's security, Richards replied: " What I've been saying for years - militant jihadism and non-state actors".

It was a "massive problem", he continued, that needed a "global response".

Asked about Ukraine, Richards replied: "What drives Russia is the protection of her vital national interest. Crimea was always going to remain Russian, he went on, saying it was gifted to Ukraine by "sleight of hand" - a reference to the decision in 1954 by the Ukrainian-born Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, to transfer Crimea to Ukraine as a "symbolic gesture".

Putin's action on Crimea was "entirely predictable", said Richards.

He said what was needed now was Russia to join in the fight against jihadists.

Rasmussen's emphasis, unsurprisingly, was rather different. He dwelt at length, in a speech top the Chatham House thinktank, entitled The Future of Nato: A Strong Alliance in an Unpredictable World, on what he called Russia's attempt to "re-write international rules", and "illegal military actions" in Ukraine and Crimea.

Asked whether Nato would intervene in Iraq, Rasmussen could only say he strongly condemned the violence there. If Russia intervened further in Ukraine (not a member of Nato) then that would be a "very regrettable step backwards", replied the Nato secretary general.

What he called the "international community" would have to respond "in a strong manner". He mentioned "deeper economic sanctions, to isolate Russian internationally".

• David Cameron, meanwhile, says the west must adopt a policy of "intelligent" intervention in Iraq. Sadly, he appears to have decided to go for broke in his intervention over who should be the next head of the European commission, going down fighting in his bid to stop the candidature of Jean-Claude Juncker, the former Luxembourg premier, who is backed, among others, by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel.

The row is scheduled to be on the agenda of an EU summit on Friday, in of all places in this centenary year of the start of the first world war, Ypres.

Interesting western take on Putin and Russia.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... ns-ukraine
Russian nationalism and the logic of the Kremlin's actions on Ukraine
Analysis: Putin’s motivations are best understood by looking at the political pressures he faces at home, writes Henry E Hale

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Aug 2014 21:51

Putin Says Everything U.S. Touches Turns Out Like Libya Or Iraq

Having been quiet for a few days, comfortable sitting back and watching NATO, Europe, and the US escalate each other's talking points to a frenzy of populist revolt, Russia's Vladimir Putin has come out swinging this morning:

*PUTIN: NO MATTER WHAT U.S. DOES, IT TURNS OUT LIKE LIBYA, IRAQ
*PUTIN SAYS UN CAN'T BE FOREIGN POLICY TOOL FOR U.S., ALLIES
*PUTIN: EUROPEAN LEADERS FAR FROM SHOWING INDEPENDENT THINKING
*PUTIN SAYS RUSSIA IS COUNTRY THAT DOESN'T FEAR ANYTHING

In addition to discussions of The Bolsheviks, agreeing Stalin was a tyrant, and slamming liberal economic models for creating crises, Putin notes his approval rating is high because "he is confident he's right."

Some more fun soundbites:

*PUTIN SAYS BOLSHEVIKS BETRAYED NATIONAL INTERESTS IN WWI
*PUTIN SAYS UNFORTUNATELY SUCH PEOPLE IN RUSSIA TODAY
*PUTIN SAYS LIBERAL ECONOMIC MODEL LEADS TO BUILDUP OF CRISES
*PUTIN SAYS NOBODY DENIES STALIN WAS A TYRANT
*PUTIN SAYS LEADERS WIN SUPPORT BY BEING CONFIDENT THEY'RE RIGHT
*PUTIN: FIGHTS AT UN SOMETIMES FIERCER THAN DURING COLD WAR
*PUTIN SAYS UNITED NATIONS NOT ALWAYS EFFECTIVE

And perhaps of most note... just as Obama pronounced yesterday that US would not engage militarily:

*PUTIN: RUSSIA FAR AWAY FROM BEING SUCKED IN GLOBAL CONFLICT

But...

*PUTIN SAYS RUSSIA IS NUCLEAR POWER, STRENGTHENING CAPABILITIES
*PUTIN: RUSSIA STRENGTHENS ARSENAL TO FEEL SAFE, NOT THREATEN
*PUTIN: DON'T THINK ANYONE SEEKS LARGE-SCALE CONFLICT W/ RUSSIA

* * *

So - just like the Cold War - military build-up on either side and constant escalation in tensions...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Aug 2014 22:08

Happy Times Are Here Again... (4 da Military-Industrial Complex)

Seriously, I wonder. Here we are, typing out nonsense on laptop kbds, and the world is burning. In Iraq, innocents are either desperately staggering in 120 degree heat with not even water for the crying babies they are carrying, still trying to escape from the brutality of the ISIS..

In Syria people are being mutilated, women raped and "sold" into slavery, torture, before merciful early death..

In East Ukraine, home are being blown up, people huddling terrified in shelters as the Baptist/Nazis come every closer to torture, enslave and kill them.

In Gaza people are starving, trying to pick their way through concrete and rubble of what was once their homes and neighborhoods..

Are we living in Interesting Times? How far is the wolf from the door?