Indo-UK: News & Discussion

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Aug 2010 14:57

Commonwealth is useful for India not because UQ is in it, but rather because natural resources rich African countries, Canada and Australia are in it.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Aug 2010 15:19

and china is not. the grouping is very important for those reasons, UK is a sideshow.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Aug 2010 15:25

^^^ the queen is helpful to provide entertainment for some of the pacific islanders and promote their tourism industries, whilst everyone else gets on with doing business

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Aug 2010 15:43

Rahul M wrote:and china is not. the grouping is very important for those reasons, UK is a sideshow.

saar, things are dynamic, not static only.

If and when (and thats a huge IF) the c'wealth starts to begin to get somewhat relevant in circles that matter, all cheen need do is push HK into the c'wealth. You think UQ or any of the others, or even Dilli for that matter will dare object?

HK in, with a ccp rep attending, networking, propah-ganduing and voting in CW meetings afterwards can put pay to any leverage notions Dilli may have. Still, its worth a try. Why not after all.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Aug 2010 15:57

Well right now, Hong Kong is not in the Commonwealth, and some members can insist that only sovereign countries can apply for membership.

I don't know if there is any such constraint of sovereignty right now in the charter.

Pakistan should be included only as an observer (some H&D pain, some jalan).

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 11 Aug 2010 19:13

Any comments about this 'superbug' that UK researchers have discovered occurs in India, and is being transmitted to the UK, via medical tourists?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Aug 2010 19:41

BBC is running a story on it, but labels it from India and Pakistan

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 11 Aug 2010 19:49

There were reports of antibiotic resistant superbugs in years gone by, though not from India. It will be interesting to see the way this story develops in the days and weeks ahead, and also of course the effect on 'medical tourism'.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Aug 2010 19:54

^^^ Bah, kuch nahi - this seems like yet another ploy by the UQ establissment types to create another lever of pressure against the inevitable - NIH running headlong into budgetary troubles and needing to outsource patient care for a whole host of med ops all over the globus.

And the cunning banias, already adept at low cost global delivery super-quality service model could endup with a threatening share of new business. No?

So, create another bureaucrazy that will pass 'med travel advisories', judge 'safety', certify 'quality' and all so that part of the cash outgo can be brought back in for doing nothing.

OK, thats just my 2 centi thought only. Now, beeb could be referring to tsp because of the 'jihadi viral superbug' spawned in UQ's most notorious and costly lab experiment dating back decades.

Jai ho and all that.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 11 Aug 2010 21:51

.

Hostile psy-ops against reputed Indian hospitals

New 'superbug' found in UK hospitals

They say bacteria that make an enzyme called NDM-1 have travelled back with NHS patients who went abroad to countries like India and Pakistan for treatments such as cosmetic surgery.

A few things here:
1. The NDM folks usually come to the best hospitals in India, most of them have platinum grade facilities and processes.

2. Cosmetic surgery in Pakistan? Maybe "mijjile snippy tachnique" will improve the face of a Milliband, but did not know there are a lot of "tourists with issues" like him. Or is it that going to Pakistan after growing a beard, training with LeT and carrying a gun to compensate for manhood is considered Pakistani cosmetic surgery in British circles?

3. "They say"? Nice Beeb.

All in all an article that drips of corn-syrup and artificial sweeteners from a victorian era - dirty country with unknown diseases, equal-equal, "ye olde country being contaminated by contact with brown-skins" etc

Anyone remember how the Ganjeeeeesss floaters caused the Mad Cow disease amongst UK's dead animal devouring citizens? Of course, the begging for alms faithfools (not posting the URL, but there is a discussion around this in def-dum forums) had their lick at that gora lollipop.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Aug 2010 22:49

Notice that ND in NDM-1 stands for New Delhi. Its quite interesting that Anglo Saxon gora log always name bad things from other than their own areas e.g. Asian Flu, German Measles, und so weiter.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Aug 2010 22:57

hnair wrote:.

Of course, the begging for alms faithfools (not posting the URL, but there is a discussion around this in def-dum forums) had their lick at that gora lollipop.

What exactly were they celebrating about? There was nothing flattering about Pakihabis in this. Was it the equal equal that they were thrilled about?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 12 Aug 2010 00:04

^^^ No, not this news, I was talking about the circa 2005 "Gangees floaters" allegation that an allegedly "reputed medical journal" like Lancet has published. Faithfools were discussing this rather too obvious gora-planted story with some rather naive AK phyrings etc, you know, doing the usual "SDRE << TFTA".

Google for "'Human remains link' to BSE cases" and you will see a link or two come up with def 'n dumb discussions.

Btw, the worst forms of superbugs found amongst the West Coast Surfers in US are the MRSA type of Staph. Usually these are caused and spread by local factors and fortunately, the lawyers ensure that the US media does not distort this bad.

I guess if it was left to BBC, MRSA came in to west because some hippie surfer came to India to get stoned at the Kumbh mela. Nothing to do with US Pacific coast hospital runoffs and other urban/industrial effluents. This news is at the top of yahoo's most read stories, along with lead in panda toys etc.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 12 Aug 2010 00:45

pakistans/islams best friend in Britain speaks up for kashmir, it is all India's fault!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... comment-51

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Aug 2010 00:51

X-posted....

James B wrote:
ramana wrote:
"ManjaM"
-------------------------
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100811/ap_ ... n_superbug

UK doctors: New superbug gene could spread widely

Though already widespread in India, the new superbug gene is being increasingly spotted in Britain and elsewhere. Experts warn the booming medical tourism industries in India and Pakistan could fuel a surge in antibiotic resistance, as patients import dangerous bugs to their home countries.

The superbug gene, which can be swapped between different bacteria to make them resistant to most drugs, has so far been identified in 37 people who returned to the U.K. after undergoing surgery in India or Pakistan.
------------------------

Psy-ops against medical tourism in India?

I just read the original 'lancet infectious disease' article in which they mention about this NDM-1 superbug. I'm baffled that being a scientific paper they made a very general comment - "Several of the UK source patients had undergone elective, including cosmetic, surgery while visiting India or Pakistan". Instead of showing statistics of how many patients who visited India has contracted this superbug, they have made this vague and general comment. If they were honest and didn't want to malign Indian hospitals, they would have given out the figures, but they didn't do that indicating that they wanted to scare people away from India to go for treatment and discourage medical tourism. Their ulterior motives can be seen in this statement of article "India also provides cosmetic surgery for other Europeans and Americans, and blaNDM-1 will likely spread worldwide. It is disturbing, in context, to read calls in the popular press for UK patients to opt for corrective surgery in India with the aim of saving the NHS money.29 As our data show, such a proposal might ultimately cost the NHS substantially more than the short-term saving and we would strongly advise against such proposals." Its very disgusting of these scientists and their backers.

Its there for everyone to see what is the motive. They wanted to save their western health care systems from medical tourism to India.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 12 Aug 2010 00:59

Haresh wrote:pakistans/islams best friend in Britain speaks up for kashmir, it is all India's fault!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... comment-51

I am not sure I might be wrong but I guess that these people are getting more frustrated day by day especially after the floods.They really seem to have gone off their rocker and appears that its just banging on the wall that they can do.The comments are interesting.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Aug 2010 03:01

^^^^
with CWG round the corner, expect if any health issue happens- ex diarrhea or fever or cold symptoms, expect the media to create rumour/scaremongering to the hilt.
what an opportune time to hit!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 12 Aug 2010 10:48

I guess, all this BS about infection in India is to discourage Medical tourism - which as per a latest study by a reputed consultancy firm is expected to grow into multi-billion $$$ industry.

I'm personally aware of some of the projects planned - and the scale is huge. The present facilities being marketed are 5 Star - the kind of treatment foreigners receive will put Taj and Leela to shame. And most of these hospitals are certified by a US based body - which is some sort of private watchdog and gives certifications. So, while bad press may cause some scare, to a person looking at life saving surgery, it is immaterial.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Aug 2010 11:47

the superbug problem has been around the Uk for several years now. in my simple medical knowledge - bacteria are evolving past the basic disinfectants used in hospitals to become super resistant. its a function of being 'clean' and not 'dirty'. the UK version has already killed people and its a tabloid favourite - "Superbug ate my leg" was a headline from not so long ago. this particular 'bug' is not a bug but an enzyme that makes regular bugs resistant to normal cleaning agents and antibiotics. there are only 37 cases. uk hospitals over the past few years have introduced extra clean up and hand washing/disinfecting points that have brought the problem of normal superbugs under control. the alarm is being caused not by being indian in nature but that once infected there is little that doctors can do (at the moment) - atleast from what i saw on the tv there was no negative aspersion being cast on its indian origin, although that is not to say that the tabloids will not do so this morning...

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 12 Aug 2010 16:48

hnair wrote:.

Hostile psy-ops against reputed Indian hospitals

New 'superbug' found in UK hospitals
They say bacteria that make an enzyme called NDM-1 have travelled back with NHS patients who went abroad to countries like India and Pakistan for treatments such as cosmetic surgery.
A few things here:
1. The NDM folks usually come to the best hospitals in India, most of them have platinum grade facilities and processes.

2. Cosmetic surgery in Pakistan? Maybe "mijjile snippy tachnique" will improve the face of a Milliband, but did not know there are a lot of "tourists with issues" like him. Or is it that going to Pakistan after growing a beard, training with LeT and carrying a gun to compensate for manhood is considered Pakistani cosmetic surgery in British circles?

3. "They say"? Nice Beeb.

All in all an article that drips of corn-syrup and artificial sweeteners from a victorian era - dirty country with unknown diseases, equal-equal, "ye olde country being contaminated by contact with brown-skins" etc

Anyone remember how the Ganjeeeeesss floaters caused the Mad Cow disease amongst UK's dead animal devouring citizens? Of course, the begging for alms faithfools (not posting the URL, but there is a discussion around this in def-dum forums) had their lick at that gora lollipop.

"Linking superbug to India irrational" http://www.thehindu.com/health/medicine ... 566384.ece

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Aug 2010 18:54

gora pandus give danda to abdul

abdul received £60k out of court from commissioner sahib, but is now getting pandus in court charged with attempted GUBO

Ahmad said police beat him, grabbed him around the neck, pulled his testicles and mocked his Islamic faith. At one point he said they forced him into a praying position as an officer shouted: "Where is your God now? Pray to him."

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 12 Aug 2010 19:23

Brihaspati,

Hard Rock Cafe eh? Touched really.

But no thanks, don't agree with you nope.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Aug 2010 20:04

As I mentioned in other dhaagas, look at who funded the Lancet study it is EU, Wellcome Trust and Wyeth. Case closed.

jambudvipa · Post by **jambudvipa** » 12 Aug 2010 23:45

Brihaspatiji,
can you direct me to good books which detail the british atrocities in India? need to bang these on the head of an odbdurate aglo-saxon empire fantsist.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 13 Aug 2010 00:14

I have been curious to get hold of a one-stop book giving all the details. If such a book does not exist, shame on us.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 13 Aug 2010 01:03

India trashes 'superbug' report, says it's doctored

While the Union health ministry issued a statement on Thursday which also takes offence to the naming of the bug after the national capital, the paper's Chennai-based lead author Karthikeyan Kumarasamy dissociated himself from parts of the report.

India rejects UK scientists' 'superbug' claim

"We strongly refute the naming of this enzyme as New Delhi metallo beta lactamase," the ministry said.

"We also refute that hospitals in India are not safe for treatment, including medical tourism," it added.

The issue was also raised in India's parliament, with angry MPs questioning the Lancet study, saying it was funded by pharmaceutical multi-national companies.

"When India is emerging as a medical tourism destination, this type of news is unfortunate and may be a sinister design of multi-national companies," MP SS Ahluwalia of the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party said.

Congress party's Jayanthi Natarajan said the report of the superbug was a "wrong propaganda against the country".

Indian medical tourism industry is growing rapidly and is estimated to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Karthikeyan Kumarasamy likely taken for granted as he is just a research scholar.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Aug 2010 01:14

jambudvipa ji and surinder,
there is still no single collection of Brit atrocities on Indians. A start has been made from within a section of "womens studies" researching Victorian and colonial issues about sex and sexual interactions under colonial power structure between Brits and "natives". Some evidence has come to light about sexual abuse, sex-slavery and other examples of nice behaviour from the BA's non-native officers.

The Brit Planters (tea, neel, etc) name appear frequently for such illustrious activities. But apart from this there are scattered narratives of various other forms of abuse and atrocities. But not collected in a single series.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 13 Aug 2010 01:39

^^^ It is indeed shameful that there are 1000's of universities in India with History departments. None of them have produced a volume solely dedicated to British atrocities. Just as economic historians collect evidence to reconstruct past GDP's, it can be an interesting experiment to collect evidence to collate and anser simple questions like "How many Indians were killed by British?".

This is not a trivial question, but even approximate numbers can be collected with relative ease. For instance, One can take add up all the wars that the British waged to conquer India. (How many did they wage?) Add up all the casualties figures. Use both realistic max and min numbers. Do this for all the wars and some idea emerges. Also, it is not impossible to know how many were kala-panied, how many hung during the peaceful rule-of-law time also. Then one can add casualties in all famines. At least a zeroth order number can be arrived at.

Historian Pankaj Misra did research on 1857 and concluded that 10's of millions were killed by British in retribution. It was a recently published book. He used evidence from revenue and population figures. A few dozen such researchers on other eras of British occupation can bring the number to a more accurate level. One can add partition deaths to it as well.

For the Mau-Mau rebellian, the Harvard historian an authorotative account of British atrocities. The British hated that book. Just a few committed individuals can do the trick.

Also, Wikipedia has a page on World War I & II casualties figures. A similar page on Indian killed by British can be made. One can use public domain information and take both the upper limit and the lower limit of the estimate to arrive at total upper limit and lower limit. Not undoable with some knowledgeable people. Such pages will go a long way and provide numbes that are solely needed.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 13 Aug 2010 01:40

Breaking News:
UK visas to Indians may get quicker and cheaper
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 302017.cms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Aug 2010 02:03

Bji, Am going to transfer the Islam related posts to new thread in GDF.

Historicity of Islam

jambudvipa · Post by **jambudvipa** » 13 Aug 2010 02:03

Brihaspatiji, any pointers would be appreciated.I can get started on compiling in a series of articles.The brain tends to start burning just thinking about all this.

Surinderji: perhaps a group could be formed to collate the stats,creating blogs and "battling" over the Wiki pages.
Lot of the wiki pages related to the British period seem to be maipulated by Anglo-saxons or their brown sahibs.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 13 Aug 2010 02:06

Jambudvipa, one can create pages in an india-centric wiki or even blog pages. Wiki will give higher readership. It can be a collection of wellknown and well accepted data, that is all at the zeroth level.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 13 Aug 2010 15:14

"Historian Pankaj Misra did research on 1857 and concluded that 10's of millions were killed by British in retribution"

Surinder, that's stupefying. Does this figure include people shot, hanged etc, or also those dead from the privations of the conflict? Just shooting or executing 10, 20 or 30 million people is mind boggling. I wonder if the NY Times, BBC, Washington Post or CNN will publicise this 'news' .

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Aug 2010 18:39

The official figures gleaned from BA records could very well be underreported. One of my ancestors was involved on the BA side and was posted in Meerut as a 17 year old at the time of the uprising. Later he was put in admin charge around Gaya. Relationships soured later over his penalizing a Brit for some atrocity on a "native" and a long running legal and admin struggle ensued. From his family narratives, these are my gleanings:

(1) the BA soldiers indulged in extra-judicial killings often, more so in the cleanup operations following a battle
(2) sometimes entire villages were enclosed and torched - either on suspicion of sheltering fugitive rebels or some native rivalries making false accusations against another clan or village, and the Brits even if sensing the reality would still go forth and erase the village - just to prove a point
(3) rape of the women of a settlement was common, sometimes enforced prostitution took place after killing off of the menfolk
(4) not all executions were recorded - only those that the BA wanted to make an example of would be highlighted and neighbouring villages or towns forced to watch
(5) after the war, and towards the close of the war, the BA systematically began "cleaning" up of settlements they deemed were from hostile, and in their language "criminal" ethnicities. Santhals were especially targets, being one of the larger and better organized tribes. This ancestor also earned a lot of ill-will because he managed to ship off a large number of Santhals to his won domains for settlement instead of eliminating them as instructed.

I have personally talked and interacted with some of the more elderly descendants of those moved. They confirmed more or less the same narrative.

One result of this experience was a ban issued by this ancestor on our family against any recruitment into the army in the future. In his words, as long as the army continues to acknowledge its Brit identity, origin and legacy - anyone joining it shares in the tears and shame of millions of Indians. This was on the basis of what he had seen and witnessed. I guess for the next decades he spent trying to expiate his personal sense of guilt.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Aug 2010 19:08

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"Historian Pankaj Misra did research on 1857 and concluded that 10's of millions were killed by British in retribution"

Surinder, that's stupefying. Does this figure include people shot, hanged etc, or also those dead from the privations of the conflict? Just shooting or executing 10, 20 or 30 million people is mind boggling. I wonder if the NY Times, BBC, Washington Post or CNN will publicise this 'news' .

Guys, stop spreading true rumors.

None other than our very own MMS has appreciated the british rule in India as beneficial, uplifting and helped in the building of the Indian nationhood.

He should well know as he seems to have the same well admired british mentality from those days.

They were peaceful people onlee, who came for business and stayed on out of sheer goodwill to help build a modern India, enduring many hardships like manfully carrying away the heavy kohinoor, to prevent unpad natives from needlessly squabbling over it and wasting their valuable time.

Our very own babu par excellence MMS cannot be wrong.

Drown your sorrows in some mulligatawny.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 14 Aug 2010 06:20

East India Company returns after 135-year absence (BBC)

An Indian entrepreneur is relaunching the famous East India Company with the opening of a luxury food store in London on Saturday.

Sanjiv Mehta at the store of the East India Company in London Mr Mehta hopes the company will once again be a worldwide business force

more:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/08/13/ ... .relaunch/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Aug 2010 06:23

Khoda Pahar, Nikla Paki
Fears of a new superbug from Asia may be overblown, experts say

However, experts said there is no evidence that the new resistant organisms, powered by a mutant gene called NDM-1 that confers resistance, is any more dangerous that the methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) that has become widespread in the United States or any of a number of other carbapenam-resistant organisms that have been observed previously. The new organism is simply "one of a number of very serious bugs we're tracking," Dr. Alexander J. Kallen of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention told the New York Times. He said the CDC has observed no more new cases in this country since its initial warning in June

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostersh ... Stories%29

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Aug 2010 07:08

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 301982.cms

"The study was funded by the European Union and two pharmaceutical companies, Wellcome Trust and Wyeth, which produce antibiotics for treatment of such cases. It also needs to be highlighted that several of the authors have declared conflict of interest in the publication," the health ministry said.

I said the same thing.

Kumarasamy said he had not written many of the interpretations in the report; they were added later without his permission or knowledge. "I do not agree with the last paragraph which advises people to avoid elective surgeries in India. While I did the scientific work, correspondence author Timothy R Walsh of Cardiff University was assigned to edit the report," Kumarasamy told TOI.

It is the same old same old, the British use Indians to do their job. Good that Kumarasamy spoke out. But I am sure this is not being circulated in the Western media.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Aug 2010 07:24

This is really ****** crazy. Pfizer manufactures an antibiotic that can be used to treat this "super bug". Wyeth was one of the entities that funded the study, and guess what Wyeth is part of Pfizer.

If anybody does not see conflict of interest or connection, then I hope Pfizer saves you.

Experts also said that there are at least two older antibiotics that can attack carbapenam-resistant organisms: colistin, which may have some side effects, and Tygacil, manufactured by Pfizer. Pharmaceutical companies are also developing a number of other new antibiotics, a market that is currently viewed as potentially lucrative.

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostersh ... 0404.story

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Aug 2010 15:39

^^^ good find on the big-pharma connection
the story seems to have died out now