2xR-77 (and GSh-23 cannon under fuselage).eklavya wrote:^^^^
Nice pictures. What’s the munition under the outer pylons?
Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
there you go folks. Told you an eagle eyed one poster could pick up Gasha from a distance.basant wrote:2xR-77 (and GSh-23 cannon under fuselage).eklavya wrote:^^^^
Nice pictures. What’s the munition under the outer pylons?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
All along on BRF, the outer wing pylons were rated for CCM, and when has R-77 been integrated with Tejas? Was it meant to be R-73
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
In both pics, there seem to be canards near the nose. Looks like they both are R-73s. What am I missing ?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
R-73 makes sense. Many thanks.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
It was a typo that'll nevertheless embarrass me for a long time.srin wrote:In both pics, there seem to be canards near the nose. Looks like they both are R-73s. What am I missing ?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I think the leading edge flap/slats are extended appearing as a separate control surface in the ventral photograph.srin wrote:In both pics, there seem to be canards near the nose. Looks like they both are R-73s. What am I missing ?
Those are R-73 and GSh-23 cannon. The golden color appears to be from the Lightening pylon with no pod attached.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Till now we have only seen the SU-30MKI and the Mirage-2000 land on highways. Both these aircraft are big & expensive and produced in limited quantities in our country (it'll be a big loss if any of them suffer bird hits/FOD damage during highway landing) and both have long range with/without air refueling. So why bother deploying them from highways?? It makes better sense to have the LCA deployable from highways, because it has the opposite qualities of the aforementioned two aircraft. Some of the new roads being built in the Ladakh and northeast should definitely have small stretches for operating the LCA. It also makes sense to harden some over bridges on these routes -- so that they can double up as hardened air shelters. During a conflict when runways have been bombed out, an LCA taking off from a highway with it's special 'Zoom climb mode', can quickly turn tables IMHO.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
From the position of the pod, is it reasonable to conclude that this a/c executed a counter-clockwise sortie starting from Leh, heading south-westerly towards Demchok, then along the LAC till Karakoram pass, then back to Leh?M_Joshi wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Maverick_bha ... 2813731840
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
If 2 months of Lockdown at the Tejas production facility were not enough to derail the schedule of the production of the FOC configured Tejas Mk1, poor mngement of the Tejas supply chain hs come as an additional headache for HAL wch is in charge of the production of the Tejas Mk1
+
is now also facing issues with the first two FOC configured aircraft which already has been assembled. The IAF is facing some Quality issues and but majorly teething issues with the new FOC configured Tejas Mk1 which are equipped with new equipment due to which delivery
+
of further aircraft has been put on hold till these technical issues are resolved along with supply chain issues which due to pandemic has affected the supply chain mostly coming from the MSME sector which is severely affected due to shortage of manpower. HAL claims
+
it has enough components to assemble 5 more Tejas Mk1, it will still require to identify and see alternatives to a few of the supply vendors if they are not able to resume supply of components soon. some imported parts and equipment which were stuck due to International
+
lockdown will resume soon as International partners have resumed work. the teething issues were expected as the aircraft are new and are way different when it comes to onboard equipment than the 16 IOC configured Tejas Mk1 which were manufactured earlier and HAL is confident
+
it will be resolved to the satisfaction of the end-user (IAF) soon but time lost will not be recovered in the process which will make it very difficult for HAL to deliver 8 Tejas Mk1 for FY 2020-21 as per original delivery schedule.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 65344?s=19
+
is now also facing issues with the first two FOC configured aircraft which already has been assembled. The IAF is facing some Quality issues and but majorly teething issues with the new FOC configured Tejas Mk1 which are equipped with new equipment due to which delivery
+
of further aircraft has been put on hold till these technical issues are resolved along with supply chain issues which due to pandemic has affected the supply chain mostly coming from the MSME sector which is severely affected due to shortage of manpower. HAL claims
+
it has enough components to assemble 5 more Tejas Mk1, it will still require to identify and see alternatives to a few of the supply vendors if they are not able to resume supply of components soon. some imported parts and equipment which were stuck due to International
+
lockdown will resume soon as International partners have resumed work. the teething issues were expected as the aircraft are new and are way different when it comes to onboard equipment than the 16 IOC configured Tejas Mk1 which were manufactured earlier and HAL is confident
+
it will be resolved to the satisfaction of the end-user (IAF) soon but time lost will not be recovered in the process which will make it very difficult for HAL to deliver 8 Tejas Mk1 for FY 2020-21 as per original delivery schedule.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 65344?s=19
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
^^^
Finally, some updates on FOCs! Thank you.
See this pic from Twitter
I think it is SP18 that has finally flown. Probably the first pic?
Finally, some updates on FOCs! Thank you.
See this pic from Twitter
I think it is SP18 that has finally flown. Probably the first pic?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
More likely to be LSP-8, KH-2018.basant wrote:^^^
Finally, some updates on FOCs! Thank you.
See this pic from Twitter
I think it is SP18 that has finally flown. Probably the first pic?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
^^^
LSP-8 flew with gun?
LSP-8 flew with gun?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Where is the source for this? Please post sourced information only.ashishvikas wrote:If 2 months of Lockdown at the Tejas production facility were not enough to derail the schedule of the production of the FOC configured Tejas Mk1, poor mngement of the Tejas supply chain hs come as an additional headache for HAL wch is in charge of the production of the Tejas Mk1
+
is now also facing issues with the first two FOC configured aircraft which already has been assembled. The IAF is facing some Quality issues and but majorly teething issues with the new FOC configured Tejas Mk1 which are equipped with new equipment due to which delivery
+
of further aircraft has been put on hold till these technical issues are resolved along with supply chain issues which due to pandemic has affected the supply chain mostly coming from the MSME sector which is severely affected due to shortage of manpower. HAL claims
+
it has enough components to assemble 5 more Tejas Mk1, it will still require to identify and see alternatives to a few of the supply vendors if they are not able to resume supply of components soon. some imported parts and equipment which were stuck due to International
+
lockdown will resume soon as International partners have resumed work. the teething issues were expected as the aircraft are new and are way different when it comes to onboard equipment than the 16 IOC configured Tejas Mk1 which were manufactured earlier and HAL is confident
+
it will be resolved to the satisfaction of the end-user (IAF) soon but time lost will not be recovered in the process which will make it very difficult for HAL to deliver 8 Tejas Mk1 for FY 2020-21 as per original delivery schedule.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 65344?s=19
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Question is what is his source? A twitter opinion thread is different from one claiming inside knowledge.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
This handle is the proxy for idrw IIRC, how i remember is they copied "vymaniki" handle
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
KaranM, Should ask him no? The member posted the source from Twitter.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Pure Bakwaas. What is the source for this huzoor? This looks like a pure lifafa piece.ashishvikas wrote: it will be resolved to the satisfaction of the end-user (IAF) soon but time lost will not be recovered in the process which will make it very difficult for HAL to deliver 8 Tejas Mk1 for FY 2020-21 as per original delivery schedule.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 65344?s=19
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Jay/KaranM/ramana/Suryag - I Acknowledge, wouldn't post anything from twitter handler Aerodynamic111.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
FYI, all 83 of MK1A are for the IAF Sq service. Not for TACDE or any other purpose.
18 per Sq and 15% as reserves.
It seems 18 per Sq is the norm now for IAF and if you consider varying % of reserves depending on situation, aircraft type, types of reserves (war attrition, write off etc) and so on, numbers like 83, 36, 126, 114, 63 etc can be explained.
18 per Sq and 15% as reserves.
It seems 18 per Sq is the norm now for IAF and if you consider varying % of reserves depending on situation, aircraft type, types of reserves (war attrition, write off etc) and so on, numbers like 83, 36, 126, 114, 63 etc can be explained.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
That person copy pastes stuff from IDRW verbatim, as a revenge for IDRW's alleged copying his article long time back (his words). If you Google this text, it probably will lead to an IDRW article (which itself might have been lifted from elsewhere). All such tweets should be taken with a pinch of salt.suryag wrote:This handle is the proxy for idrw IIRC, how i remember is they copied "vymaniki" handle
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
100% lifted from IDRW:Jay wrote:Pure Bakwaas. What is the source for this huzoor? This looks like a pure lifafa piece.ashishvikas wrote: it will be resolved to the satisfaction of the end-user (IAF) soon but time lost will not be recovered in the process which will make it very difficult for HAL to deliver 8 Tejas Mk1 for FY 2020-21 as per original delivery schedule.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 65344?s=19
http://idrw.org/lca-tejas-production-sl ... ng-issues/
Anyway it would not surprise me if this was true. We haven’t seen SP-17/18 handed over even though they flew months back.
There were similar issues for the first IOC jets from Line 2 if we can think back so it’s to be expected and this should also highlight the problem with creating so many different tranches with low numbers in each tranche. They stabilised IOC then after just 16 had to switch to FOC and then they’ll have to switch to MK1A after a further 16. All other OEMs plan tranches in the 100s of airframes.
HAL will take care of any issues, their internal QC picked this up and not the customer so the system worked as it is meant to. They are halting hand overs not production so they can keep up production. Thanks to COVID production targets will slip, if they can get 10 out this FY it will be a hugely successful year. 2 already made so 8 more in 8 months should be doable.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/07 ... ember.html
Ready In All Respects, $5.2 Billion Order For 83 LCAs By December
2. Tejas Mk.1A ~62 million a pop.
3. 18 LCA trainer order under review to keep the production line warm for Mk.1A.
Ready In All Respects, $5.2 Billion Order For 83 LCAs By December
1. Contract negotiated. Final financial clearance awaited.A long awaited $5.2 billion contract for 83 indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk.1A jets is ready in all respects and is likely to be awarded to HAL in or before December this year. Livefist can confirm that completed paperwork is now awaiting a final clearance from India’s Finance Ministry before contract signature with manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
Clearance to manufacture 18 LCA Mk.1 FOC trainer aircraft to expand numbers and keep the production line warm before the Mk.1A comes online is also under final review before expected clearance. The 83 Mk.1A jets will be higher performance jets both in terms of performance, weapons and avionics capability as well as crucial maintainability. Livefist had this detailed report on what goes into the LCA Mk.1A, the jet regarded by the IAF as the ‘true’ Tejas.
2. Tejas Mk.1A ~62 million a pop.
3. 18 LCA trainer order under review to keep the production line warm for Mk.1A.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
4 years to fix a price between departments in the same government!pankajs wrote:https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/07 ... ember.html
Ready In All Respects, $5.2 Billion Order For 83 LCAs By December1. Contract negotiated. Final financial clearance awaited.A long awaited $5.2 billion contract for 83 indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk.1A jets is ready in all respects and is likely to be awarded to HAL in or before December this year. Livefist can confirm that completed paperwork is now awaiting a final clearance from India’s Finance Ministry before contract signature with manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
Clearance to manufacture 18 LCA Mk.1 FOC trainer aircraft to expand numbers and keep the production line warm before the Mk.1A comes online is also under final review before expected clearance. The 83 Mk.1A jets will be higher performance jets both in terms of performance, weapons and avionics capability as well as crucial maintainability. Livefist had this detailed report on what goes into the LCA Mk.1A, the jet regarded by the IAF as the ‘true’ Tejas.
2. Tejas Mk.1A ~62 million a pop.
3. 18 LCA trainer order under review to keep the production line warm for Mk.1A.
Anyway let’s hope this deadline is adhered to, this means there’s a strong chance the first MK1A will be coming in 2023
If they ordered additional trainers this would be great news and would address the production gap IAF has now ensured by their delays in ordering but for this very reason I have less than 10% hope that is becomes a reality. This is far too logical and getting commitments out of the indian services for indian equipment is harder than getting blood out of a stone but would be happy to be proven wrong.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I have said this before - the clearance merely indicates there is no money. Lets give a rest to all the claims of incompetence, this, that. The IAF wants proven platforms asap so they have prioritized the Rafale and S-400 (both in service w/their respective countries) and additional MiG-29s, Su-30s but the Tejas will arrive as soon as some room appears in the Capex.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
December is too close to March. And we'll be looking at the economy after 2/3rds of the COVID-damaged financial year. There is a very real chance of actual signing getting pushed into the next financial year.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Tejas 16 mk1 IOC+ 16 mk1 FOC + 18 mk1 FOC trainers+ 83 mk1a = 133 nos will form 7 operational squadrons. @19 fighter/ sq. All 83 mk1a should be single seater.
2023-24 to 2026-27 mk1a over 4 years @ 20/year.
2023-24 to 2026-27 mk1a over 4 years @ 20/year.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Does 18 trainers mean that eventually we are going to see 9 squadrons? I hope so!!
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
7 sq tallies with IAF initial requirement of max 7 Tejas mk 1 sq. 14 trainers + 4 attrition reserve.
Each sq will have 16 to 17 single seater + 2 to 3 trainers for total of 19 fighters.
83 mk1a will form 5 sq with 16 single seater each + 2 mk1 FOC trainers.
Each sq will have 16 to 17 single seater + 2 to 3 trainers for total of 19 fighters.
83 mk1a will form 5 sq with 16 single seater each + 2 mk1 FOC trainers.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I think 83 Mk1A is actually 73 Mk1A + 10 FOC Trainers...sankum wrote:Tejas 16 mk1 IOC+ 16 mk1 FOC + 18 mk1 FOC trainers+ 83 mk1a = 133 nos will form 7 operational squadrons. @19 fighter/ sq. All 83 mk1a should be single seater.
2023-24 to 2026-27 mk1a over 4 years @ 20/year.
In the original 40 Mk1 orders, there are originally 4 IOC and 4 FOC Trainers and all of them will now be FOC... So, 8 FOC Trainers here...
What we have is 16 IOC + 16 FOC + 73 Mk1A + 18 FOC Trainers...
That will be 6 squadrons (16 Single seaters + 3 Trainers per squadron) with 9 extra single seaters...
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
noob pooch:
What will be the status of the MK1/1A lines post delivery of the 123+ aircraft? Specifically, is there a plan to introduce SPORT by 2027, or secure foreign orders (too optimistic) by then to keep the line going o?. IMO, it would be a gross under-utilization of resources, seeing how LM et al are trying to keep the Falcon lines active.
noob pooch 2:
Will Tejas MK1 airframes be suitable for a loyal wingman type a/c, or would it be unwise given the powerplant is going to be foreign for the foreseeable future, or other reasons?
What will be the status of the MK1/1A lines post delivery of the 123+ aircraft? Specifically, is there a plan to introduce SPORT by 2027, or secure foreign orders (too optimistic) by then to keep the line going o?. IMO, it would be a gross under-utilization of resources, seeing how LM et al are trying to keep the Falcon lines active.
noob pooch 2:
Will Tejas MK1 airframes be suitable for a loyal wingman type a/c, or would it be unwise given the powerplant is going to be foreign for the foreseeable future, or other reasons?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
But where is Mk1A? No working aircraft yet? What is rationale for any contract if there is no flying aircraft?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Let clarity emerge.LakshmanPST wrote:I think 83 Mk1A is actually 73 Mk1A + 10 FOC Trainers...sankum wrote:Tejas 16 mk1 IOC+ 16 mk1 FOC + 18 mk1 FOC trainers+ 83 mk1a = 133 nos will form 7 operational squadrons. @19 fighter/ sq. All 83 mk1a should be single seater.
2023-24 to 2026-27 mk1a over 4 years @ 20/year.
In the original 40 Mk1 orders, there are originally 4 IOC and 4 FOC Trainers and all of them will now be FOC... So, 8 FOC Trainers here...
What we have is 16 IOC + 16 FOC + 73 Mk1A + 18 FOC Trainers...
That will be 6 squadrons (16 Single seaters + 3 Trainers per squadron) with 9 extra single seaters...
Livefist article states that 8 Trainer FOC order is expanded to 18 so that manufacturing line is not idle + 83 mk1a.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
First flight of Mk1A is due by next year or the latest by 2022.V_Raman wrote:But where is Mk1A? No working aircraft yet? What is rationale for any contract if there is no flying aircraft?
First deliveries of Mk1A will happen only in 2023, assuming a contract is signed in Dec 2020. It takes three years for delivery and that is the industry standard.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Frankly I don't understand why HAL needs to wait for MoD to sign the order and delay the delivery.
They could easily get a loan from a PSU, under written by MoD, pay off suppliers to start making the LRU. When the MoD order comes, pay back the money to the bank.
They could easily get a loan from a PSU, under written by MoD, pay off suppliers to start making the LRU. When the MoD order comes, pay back the money to the bank.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
https://twitter.com/AtuL1617_/status/12 ... 27712?s=20 ---->
Tejas LCA MK.1A cockpit. Okay, so:
• 1 x Litening Pod
• 1 x GSh-23 (possibly)
• 2 x Paveway 2
• 2 x Astra
• 1 x EW pod (Elisra's EW Pod under-development)
• 2 x CCMs on dual-rack pylon though not ASRAAMs, seems R-73Es
(Rakesh's note: CCMs on dual rack pylon are on right)
Follow up tweet to the tweet above....
https://twitter.com/MI6GB/status/128381 ... 91969?s=20 --->
In this config:-
1) Litening 3 Pod: 208 kg
2) 2x GBU-12 Paveway 2: 460 kg
3) 2xAstra: 308 kg
4) 2xR73E: 210 kg
5) Elisra EW pod: ~200 kg
6) GSH-23: 50 kg
Nearly 1.5 tons of weapons/targeting/EW payload.
Tejas LCA MK.1A cockpit. Okay, so:
• 1 x Litening Pod
• 1 x GSh-23 (possibly)
• 2 x Paveway 2
• 2 x Astra
• 1 x EW pod (Elisra's EW Pod under-development)
• 2 x CCMs on dual-rack pylon though not ASRAAMs, seems R-73Es
(Rakesh's note: CCMs on dual rack pylon are on right)
Follow up tweet to the tweet above....
https://twitter.com/MI6GB/status/128381 ... 91969?s=20 --->
In this config:-
1) Litening 3 Pod: 208 kg
2) 2x GBU-12 Paveway 2: 460 kg
3) 2xAstra: 308 kg
4) 2xR73E: 210 kg
5) Elisra EW pod: ~200 kg
6) GSH-23: 50 kg
Nearly 1.5 tons of weapons/targeting/EW payload.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
If only people were that sane. It takes years for cost negotiations between two government departmentsnam wrote:Frankly I don't understand why HAL needs to wait for MoD to sign the order and delay the delivery.
They could easily get a loan from a PSU, under written by MoD, pay off suppliers to start making the LRU. When the MoD order comes, pay back the money to the bank.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/06 ... opter.html
A pooch out of genuine curiosity. Let us assume HAL overcharges IAF. Where exactly does the "extra" money go? Dividend back to the government? Then why this chai-biskoot on whether HAL profit margin should be 5% or 10%?With crucial — and sticky — price negotiations complete
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
They need direction from the MoDP. Hope this happens as part of Atmanirbhar Bharat.nam wrote:Frankly I don't understand why HAL needs to wait for MoD to sign the order and delay the delivery.
They could easily get a loan from a PSU, under written by MoD, pay off suppliers to start making the LRU. When the MoD order comes, pay back the money to the bank.
The suppliers can get a head start before the MoD contract is signed.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Some dude in the twitter thread (link below) is stating the above configuration does not account for fuel.Rakesh wrote:Follow up tweet to the tweet above....
https://twitter.com/MI6GB/status/128381 ... 91969?s=20 --->
Gurus, please confirm.
https://twitter.com/DFI_Sancho/status/1 ... 67170?s=20