Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 02 Apr 2014 18:22

I am just back from desh after spending three weeks travelling in Gujarat. Here are some of my observations about Gujarat.
There is general consensus that there has been development under modi. In some of the sectors it has been rapid while the other sectors has been slow.

Good points : Villages has seen drinking water, check dams with village contribution, tar road connections with cities although crappy at some places, good overall development in bigger cities, power supply is good. I observed one power cut for two minutes in three weeks, water supply is regular.

Bod points : Corruption is rampant even while development is rapid. Police being on the top in that list. Government departments see corruption in nod and wink style as now a days there is paper trail of money everywhere. Medical sector is out there to butcher people charging exorbitant money. Education sector is too corrupt, money oriented and cuts corners in every way possible, IT development is slow compared to many other states in India. Society is divided on every possible lines and everyone wants to put their representative in top job instead of putting the best one, human development is dismal compared to educated states like Kerala or Delhi, no traffic sense in people and everyone wants to go first, some temples are managed nicely while others are indulged in act of money laundering etc which is not nice to know. Drinking is common people have Jack Daniels, Vodka at home even though it is supposed to be dry state ! Causing state to loose huge tax receipts for this paper hypocrisy.

Having seen above, some of the bad points can be applied to other states too I believe. Overall I have seen people living better lifestyle than last generation. Beggars has reduced considerably which is good sign of something being right. Modi had tried to do systematic changes to reduce bad points but I can see that corruption and sycophancy is really a big issue and I don't know how modi will be able to put together a solid team of people who are willing to partner in his dream of a developed India !

I will put my bets on 16 confirmed win for BJP while six will be close and 4 will be near defeat or a hard slog win for BJP.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Apr 2014 19:08

jack daniels of all!? amrut single malt would be the sdre one.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 02 Apr 2014 19:55

ashish raval wrote:
Bod points : Corruption is rampant even while development is rapid. Police being on the top in that list. Government departments see corruption in nod and wink style as now a days there is paper trail of money everywhere. Medical sector is out there to butcher people charging exorbitant money. Education sector is too corrupt, money oriented and cuts corners in every way possible, IT development is slow compared to many other states in India. Society is divided on every possible lines and everyone wants to put their representative in top job instead of putting the best one, human development is dismal compared to educated states like Kerala or Delhi, no traffic sense in people and everyone wants to go first, some temples are managed nicely while others are indulged in act of money laundering etc which is not nice to know. Drinking is common people have Jack Daniels, Vodka at home even though it is supposed to be dry state ! Causing state to loose huge tax receipts for this paper hypocrisy.

Why is that a bad thing. IT is definitely not the route India ought to take if it has any hopes of getting into a middle income class of countries and a weapon superpower etc.. Gujarat is doing the right thing by giving opportunities for youngsters with engineering/technical degrees in core engineering/manufacturing/design/pharma/chem etc.. instead of doing outsourced work for unkil sam.

If you referring to computerization of sarkari offices as IT, then please ignore my post.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Apr 2014 20:04

SaiK wrote:jack daniels of all!? amrut single malt would be the sdre one.

I told one of my US friends about Amrut and he in turn contacted his best buddy in B'Lore on IT assignemnt to go looking for Amrut. He was told Amrut mostly exported and very hard to find in desh.
I found BevMo and Total Wine both carry it. They get a case at a time and gone in week.

I am on their contact list at my local TW store for alerts when the stuff arrives.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Apr 2014 20:12

Arun Menon wrote:^Like someone else said, I hope some of our more educated and economically better off friends show the same sense. One thing I have noticed is that the poor are able to admit their mistake, change their opinion and give a new guy a chance. But, the so called upper middle classes are filled with egotistical morons who hold on to their prejudices just out of pride. It just sickens me to see these people who are immune to common sense no matter what.

India's (that is born on Aug 15, 1947) problems are always due to the educated class. The more western-education* one got, the more damage they created.

* Scientific knowledge, pure science without any agenda, is universal not limited-to/owned-by west.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Apr 2014 20:30

ramana wrote:
SaiK wrote:jack daniels of all!? amrut single malt would be the sdre one.

I told one of my US friends about Amrut and he in turn contacted his best buddy in B'Lore on IT assignemnt to go looking for Amrut. He was told Amrut mostly exported and very hard to find in desh.
I found BevMo and Total Wine both carry it. They get a case at a time and gone in week.

I am on their contact list at my local TW store for alerts when the stuff arrives.

Not necessarily true in Bangalore. The friendly neighbourhood store has a shelf of Amrut stocked whenever I drop in.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Apr 2014 20:34

rohitvats wrote: f.If the PM is right, the nation will correct itself automatically.

Yatha Raja, Tatha Praja! This is true (so-called) illiterate Bharat, with all its wisdom

Hopefully the western-educated cynicism Yatha Praja Tatha Raja will get flushed out in this tsunami!

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 02 Apr 2014 21:13

muraliravi wrote:
ashish raval wrote:
Bod points : Corruption is rampant even while development is rapid. Police being on the top in that list. Government departments see corruption in nod and wink style as now a days there is paper trail of money everywhere. Medical sector is out there to butcher people charging exorbitant money. Education sector is too corrupt, money oriented and cuts corners in every way possible, IT development is slow compared to many other states in India. Society is divided on every possible lines and everyone wants to put their representative in top job instead of putting the best one, human development is dismal compared to educated states like Kerala or Delhi, no traffic sense in people and everyone wants to go first, some temples are managed nicely while others are indulged in act of money laundering etc which is not nice to know. Drinking is common people have Jack Daniels, Vodka at home even though it is supposed to be dry state ! Causing state to loose huge tax receipts for this paper hypocrisy.

Why is that a bad thing. IT is definitely not the route India ought to take if it has any hopes of getting into a middle income class of countries and a weapon superpower etc.. Gujarat is doing the right thing by giving opportunities for youngsters with engineering/technical degrees in core engineering/manufacturing/design/pharma/chem etc.. instead of doing outsourced work for unkil sam.

If you referring to computerization of sarkari offices as IT, then please ignore my post.

Well it is true that it will give more impetus in non IT engineering sectors. But IT does allow regular namesake engineer to get a white collar job and live decent life quickly. Blue collar jobs on the other hand takes hard slogging. IT also allows non-Engineering guys to get decent salaries. I was mainly taking about sarkari machinery being slow to adapt IT and use the power of mobile computing and internet.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Apr 2014 21:22

RamaY wrote:
rohitvats wrote: f.If the PM is right, the nation will correct itself automatically.
Yatha Raja, Tatha Praja! This is true (so-called) illiterate Bharat, with all its wisdom
Hopefully the western-educated cynicism Yatha Praja Tatha Raja will get flushed out in this tsunami!

I do not know if it is Western educated cynicism, but I said that way back - 4 years ago. Others have said it before that too.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ja#p982186

We had arguments even back in 2012

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1370870

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Apr 2014 21:29

ramana, online is expensive... 76 bucks + idiotic 46 bucks for s&h at masterofmalt dot com

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 02 Apr 2014 21:48

I am going to Vadodara next week and thereafter to Bhuj. Going to see NMs work first hand. Spoken to people who has seen his closely at Mumbai money bag gangs recently.

1. NM is master communicator ( He already proven this in political side and so nothing new to us)
2. HE WILL NEVER FORGIVE AND FORGET THOSE HARMED HIM. This is very important. Unlike Atal, NM will not be kind to mafia gangs. Expect political assylems for lot of people. Vinod Mehta already saying this.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Apr 2014 23:03

anyone know Namo's school and kallege education background?

surely not St columba/Stephens/Doon/Mayo material....only gentlemen scions and lutyens kids are allowed into such hallowed portals. the kids of officials and armed forces get into the next rung like DPS,army public,modern....

Namo is pretty 4th rung education looking down from the olympian heights of lutyens delhi/Raj-MP royal gharanas...people who know how to select a good wine and food pairing for foreign guests.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 02 Apr 2014 23:13

--Edited out incorrect info--

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Apr 2014 23:15

Singha wrote:anyone know Namo's school and kallege education background?

I think he did his Masters from open university on encouragement by an RSS mentor.

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Apr 2014 23:15

^^^ Wow you did not know?

Anyway, he left school at around 6th Grade and later completed his Masters ( Political Science ) as external from Gujarat University (and I think in one sitting).

He has attended management classes in IIM A'dbad and also done a 3 month course on public relations and image management in US.

Other tidbits:

He is a voracious reader and an accomplished hiker. Both of which he misses sorely currently., in his first/second stint as CM, he would walk alone for hours in Kutch's desert sometimes at night. This sojourns inspired him to make remote kutch as a tourist destination. In Nov-Feb (particularly Dec/Jan)., some of the "beds/tents" in remote kutch cost as much as $200 (yes Rs. 1.2 Lakhs) per night and has to be booked some 6 months in advance.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Apr 2014 23:26

Published on Apr 2, 2014
By Archis Mohan
Modi-Powell meet sealed US envoy's future in India

New Delhi: The February 13 meeting between Nancy Powell, who quit as US ambassador to India on Monday, and Narendra Modi, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)’s prime ministerial candidate, was frosty enough to convince the Roosevelt House (the official address of the US Embassy in New Delhi) and the White House in Washington DC that much had to be done before US diplomats could aspire to any significant access to a Modi-led government in India.

The embassy has been somewhat rattled since the meeting, the first since the US denied Modi a visa to visit that country in 2005.

Sources in South Block say the Chinese and Japanese embassies might have better rapport with a Modi-headed Prime Minister’s Office, compared to the embassies of the US, the UK, France and Germany.

At the February 13 meeting, which lasted an hour and a quarter, Modi and Powell discussed diplomatic and trade relations. Neither Modi nor Powell brought up the visa issue. Sources privy to the meeting said Modi conveyed to Powell his unhappiness at the manner in which the US had handled the Devyani Khobragade case.

The talks were held without the help of an interpreter, in a mix of Hindi and English. While Modi primarily spoke in Hindi with a smattering of English, Powell spoke in halting Hindi, preferring English for complex issues. To assist the two, a senior bureaucrat sat within earshot.

Sources said in what had brought cheer to Indian diplomats, Modi had reportedly castigated the Americans over the Khobragade issue. “Our information is the Americans returned from the meeting somewhat rattled,” said a source.

Modi told Powell Khobragade was treated shabbily and hoped Powell would empathise with Khobragade, as she, too, was a diplomat, sources said. “Our assessment is the Roosevelt House took this as veiled warning that American diplomats shouldn’t expect any special treatment from a Modi-led government, something the it was quite accustomed to from the UPA (United Progressive Alliance) before the Khobragade controversy,” said a source. Bureaucrats close to Modi told the visiting American delegation the Gujarat chief minister had no desire to visit the US. “The Americans cannot stop him from visiting the UN in New York during the General Assembly. Beyond that, the CM has little fascination for visiting the US,” said a source.

What had galled those close to Modi, bureaucrats and influential American-Indians alike, was all these years, the Roosevelt House had let UPA ministers influence its decisions on a visa to Modi and on whether the Americans should engage with him or not.

“We have reasons to believe key UPA ministers and a couple of senior bureaucrats convinced the Americans not to engage with Modi,” said a source in the BJP.

Both South Block and BJP sources said it was unlikely Modi’s ascendance to the prime ministerial chair would affect the bigger picture of India-US relations. “But what might change is the ease of doing business that American diplomats were used to in the UPA dispensation,” said a source. This is what the US will try address by bringing in new faces at Roosevelt House, possibly from the influential Gujarati community in America.

After Modi became Gujarat’s chief minister for the third consecutive time in 2012, the US delayed its outreach to Modi, while many other western nations didn’t. Then British High Commissioner James Bevan called on Modi in October 2012, a couple of months before the Gujarat Assembly elections. At that meeting, Modi had said, “Der aaye durust aaye (better late than never).” In January 2013, a month after his Assembly election victory, German Ambassador Michael Steiner had hosted a lunch for Modi on behalf of all European Union countries.

The Russian ambassador to India had publicly lauded Modi’s victory in the 2012 Gujarat Assembly elections.

Modi shares particularly good relations with the Chinese, his website says. As Gujarat chief minister, he has visited that country thrice, the last time in November 2011, when he was hosted at the Great Hall of the People. “The reason is simple. The Chinese admire strong leaders. They find it easier to do business with leaders who can deliver on their promises,” says a source close to Modi.

Modi has also visited Japan, South Korea and other east Asian countries. The Israeli embassy has also maintained regular contact with Modi. Sources close to Modi say under him, the Gujarat administration has had friendly relations with business communities from most of India’s neighbours, particularly Pakistan. They add business delegations from Karachi, the capital of Punjab’s Sindh province, have visited Gujarat often.

In July 2012, Bangladesh High Commissioner Tariq A Karim had met Modi in Gandhinagar.

Modi is going to be elected in a presidentialized election with more votes than all the leaders of the West put together. Modi would be the leader of the Free World, and he would be dishing out thapparhs where needed to any leader who may want to cross swords with India.

For the world, a Modified India is a totally different independent power more than willing to show the middle finger to the world's power-brats.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Apr 2014 23:27

disha, any tidbits on his wife staying with him? why this divorce?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Apr 2014 23:58

Its all good news etc for India getting Modi-dyed but how many here regret physical absent from the actual Maidan and wish to be in the middle of hustle bustle tussle ,participating in this process of changing local thinking Nasal and reap the Fasal(crop) for new era excitement. Onle solace is finally the Nehruvian duffers will now be shunted out and dumped in the gabage bin they rightfully belong to.

India will come alive after GE2014. Modi signify the first dawn of awareness after long slumber.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 03 Apr 2014 00:02

SaiK wrote:disha, any tidbits on his wife staying with him? why this divorce?

Please don't go there. His personal life is his own business.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Apr 2014 00:12

^^^No. He brings up a valid point. Anyone who has his finger on the nuclear button should be able to undergo scrutiny. Just like a US president does. There is nothing to hide. Modi and his wife separated because both were forced into an arraigned marriage as teenagers and he preferred to dedicate his life to his faith by going on a religious mission through the various RSS shakas.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Apr 2014 00:23

SwamyG wrote: I do not know if it is Western educated cynicism, but I said that way back - 4 years ago. Others have said it before that too.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ja#p982186

We had arguments even back in 2012 http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1370870

I am not talking about this forum SwamyG garu. It is used by political & intellectual circles to justify inaction, favoritism, corruption and even treason!

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Apr 2014 00:57

SaiK wrote:disha, any tidbits on his wife staying with him? why this divorce?

There is no wife and no divorce. I hope you are asking this question as a true enquiry and not as a criticism on the person/persons or his community. The former is fine, later is not tolerated - because only criticism can come from people who understand the "caste" system.

NaMo comes from the Modhwada clan (notice I am not calling it caste) and generally the clan originates from Modhwada, Saurashtra. Now some rajputs are also part of the modhwada clan so you may find upper class modis who are born to say a rai bahadur (british term) or a basically a prince (I think they are called Bardais)., and also you find tool makers (swords, hammers, sickles etc) and artisans (famously the nomadic sisodiyas) including cobblers etc.

NaMo belongs to the cobblers (some people wrongly call it Ghanchi - that is not the case).

They follow certain "curious" (I call it "modern") custom where widow marriages, divorces, marriage post divorce of women is simple and straightforward. For example if a divorcee female is remarried, she gives her former ex-husband "veth" or a small donation, the minimum is 1.25 Rs. Widow marriages are common and is a simpler process of giving a personal gift to the widow and its acceptance by the widow (generally a male gives his turban - basically his honour). However the marriage itself is a two step process. The first step is "betrothal" and the second step is "marriage". Something like "engagement" and "marriage".

Modi was bethrothed against his wishes when he was a teen (16 I think) and he never proceeded to second step having called off his marriage (calling it off from his side breaks the betrothal as well). However the female in question never let go of the "betrothal" and did not move on and considered herself "married". In a way from a personal PoV this is a tragedy. From legal perspective, there is no marriage since Modi was never married.

Modi himself never revisited this chapter. So the matter should end there.

Now of course, the sick media (extremely sick of them) to go and interview her and call her married and making fun of Modi is plain wrong (and sickening).

Note I am explaining since this comes up often and I really find it annoying when the Indian MSM itself does not understand the nuances and starts "secular" moralizing.

Having said the above, any discussion on his personal life is intrusion., however I do want to take the chance to enlighten certain forward (or pre-historic but modern) looking practices.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Apr 2014 01:11

Disha-ji: thanks very much for that. Didnt know these details. If the topic comes up in MSM again, you should pen an article or a blog

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 03 Apr 2014 01:12

Thank you disha ji. That's a poignant story whichever way you look at it.
Agree with Prem Kumar.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Apr 2014 01:15

gandharva wrote:Fun begins!

BJP booklet accuses Sonia of lying about her education

The booklet mentions that Sonia’s actual name, as per her birth certificate, is Antonia Maino and goes on to allege that she lied about her education. “The claim that Sonia Gandhi did a diploma course in English from Cambridge University is a lie, while the truth is that she had never even attended college,” the booklet claims. The party also accused Sonia of being a KGB agent.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... education/

Expect MSM outrage, urging "civility" in debate

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Apr 2014 01:23

disha.. enlightening. thx.. never knew his was against his wishes. all clear from my side for his PM ship!

.

could you tweet the highlights of your post to many.. it could help. there are many like me. being unaware is not ignorance.. it is just that we the people and kinds may not have got a chance to listen/read/talk about it.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Apr 2014 01:32

Find Digvijay Singh in this pic.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 03 Apr 2014 01:39

disha ji should write it in a blog or I can put it in my blog and give due credit.

Regards,
Vamsee

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Apr 2014 01:39

Thappad fella moved to HT.

Modi wave sweeps Delhi, AAP on downgrade slide:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/nare ... 52580.html

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 03 Apr 2014 01:40

gandharva wrote:Find Digvijay Singh in this pic.

Simply superb !

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Apr 2014 02:39

Vamsee wrote:disha ji should write it in a blog or I can put it in my blog and give due credit...

Feel free Vamsee'ji. The sad reality is that there is no comprehensive anthropological study from the Indian perspective which tells a story of the rich cultural practices we have.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 03 Apr 2014 02:41

disha wrote:However the marriage itself is a two step process. The first step is "betrothal" and the second step is "marriage". Something like "engagement" and "marriage".

is this not common in almost all communities?

for us, the 'nichayam' (engagement/fixing) can be as elaborate as the marriage itself. and for me, it was done in my absence as I was in massa and had to save the vacation days for marriage. it was strange to watch hundreds of my relatives come to the hall and wish my would-be.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Apr 2014 02:57

Irrespective of what a clan or caste does, India has moved on (for bad or good) and disassociated itself with several past traditions. Isn't the Hindu Marriage Act that is foremost and decides if individuals are married or not?

One more reason to have a common act/law. Instead of one for the Hindus and having personal laws for people of other faith.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Apr 2014 03:01

SwamyG wrote:Irrespective of what a clan or caste does, India has moved on (for bad or good) and disassociated itself with several past traditions. Isn't the Hindu Marriage Act that is foremost and decides if individuals are married or not?

One more reason to have a common act/law. Instead of one for the Hindus and having personal laws for people of other faith.

From what Disha ji has written, NaMo wouldn't be considered married under the Hindu marriage act. The media as usual was desperately clutching at straws to attack him.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Apr 2014 03:23

SwamyG wrote:Irrespective of what a clan or caste does, India has moved on (for bad or good) and disassociated itself with several past traditions. Isn't the Hindu Marriage Act that is foremost and decides if individuals are married or not?

One more reason to have a common act/law. Instead of one for the Hindus and having personal laws for people of other faith.

Trap of western universalism. Marriage represents the tradition (fashion) of that region.
While bringing Hindu Marriage Act, Nehru promised Hindus that it will unite, which is nonsense.
Modi brought better unity in Hindus without westernizing Hindus.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 03 Apr 2014 03:28

SwamyG:

The Hindu marriage act does not require registration of the wedding for it to be considered valid. In this instance, if there was betrothal but no wedding ceremony, the couple would not be considered married. In any case, I don't think the personal life of the candidate should matter.

And yes, the solution to the messy situation in our personal laws is for the enactment of a Uniform Civil Code, which lays down a common set of rules for things like marriage, succession, adoption etc., while allowing for the vast heterogeneity in cultural practices across the country (and not just across religions - there is tremendous diversity within people of the same faith). Politics has come in its way, but any logical person would see that this is the way forward. And I do think that it is possible to do this without steamrolling it over unwilling citizens - a broad consensus on this is possible if vested interests are not allowed to hijack the discussion.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Apr 2014 03:42

Is Narendra Modi peaking too early?

One of the pet theories that is doing the rounds among the political pundits of Dilli is what is known as the ‘early peaking’ theory being applied to Narendra Modi and BJP. There is, many argue, a historic precedent of 2004 when BJP and NDA led by Vajpayee lost the plot during the campaign season.

With elections spread across a timeframe of almost a month and a half, could Modi and BJP have a similar trajectory as in 2004?

For starters, one of the biggest difference between Modi and Vajpayee is that the latter was popular no doubt, but was never in the same league as Modi. At no given point of time in his political career was Vajpayee even half as popular as Modi across so many geographies of India.

What is more, Vajpayee’s popularity never really went beyond BJP’s core voters, whereas the Modi of today is more popular among the OBCs than some of the biggest OBC leaders of heartland like Nitish, Lalu and Mulayam, the Modi of today is more popular among Jats than the tallest Jat leaders India has ever seen, the Modi of today is more popular among the Lingayats of Karnataka than the tallest Lingayat leader, BSY, the Modi of today is more popular among Marathas than the tallest Maratha leaders like Pawar and Thackerays, the Modi of today is more popular in Tamil Nadu than the tallest Dravidian leaders of the land! The Modi of today is even giving Mayawati a run for her money among the Dalit voters of Uttar Pradesh!

Truth is that Vajpayee, never even in the wildest dreams of BJP supporters, could have matched Modi’s social coalition, so it is unlikely that Modi could suffer Vajpayee’s moment of doubt when India could simply not trust an old man who was hardly ambulatory.

http://centreright.in/2014/04/is-narend ... zyOhaYzc39

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 03 Apr 2014 04:39

disha ji,

Blogged it. If you have a twitter account, please let me know. I will tag you.

Regards,
Vamsee

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Apr 2014 04:51

Disha Gaganaviharin @Gajaakesari

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Apr 2014 05:12

rohitv wrote:
rohitvats wrote:Th
You missed one of her stupid question , she asked something on the line of - "Arent you concerned that people associated with Narendra Modi are communal/kattar (hard-core) hindus".
Following this she asked "are you a kattar hindu" to which the guy replied "yes i am"

Must have sent the shiver down the spine of fake Secularists and real Mccauly Keedas.