Indian Army: News & Discussion

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 09 Mar 2011 09:43

India takes steps to address shortage of officers in Armed Forces

“All officers, including those in the Short Service Commission (SSC), are now eligible to hold substantive rank of Captain, Major and Lieutenant Colonel after two, six and 13 years of reckonable service respectively. The tenure of SSC officers has been increased from 10 to 14 years,” he said.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 09 Mar 2011 15:28

512 Army Base Workshop in Pune to establish Armoured Recovery Vehicle workshop

rajeshks · Post by **rajeshks** » 09 Mar 2011 16:45

chackojoseph wrote:India takes steps to address shortage of officers in Armed Forces

“All officers, including those in the Short Service Commission (SSC), are now eligible to hold substantive rank of Captain, Major and Lieutenant Colonel after two, six and 13 years of reckonable service respectively. The tenure of SSC officers has been increased from 10 to 14 years,” he said.

I had a chace to meet a serving Major and Lt Col during my college alumni meet.. Major was my batchmate and is from the time-bounded promotion era. Lt Col who is his boss is also from our college and was 14(11 in army) years senior!!! Atleast the time bounded promotions made a lot of difference to the new comers.. The peers of the Lt Col in IPS would be in IG rank now due to time bounded promotions there.. The worst part is he want to come out army but have a 1 year waiting period for that also..

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Mar 2011 03:49

Army told to reconvene court of inquiry on Purohit

In a major setback to the army’s efforts to dismiss Malegaon terror attack accused Lt Col Shrikant Prasad Purohit, the Armed Forces Tribunal (AFT) Wednesday asked for the Court of Inquiry (COI) to be reconvened as it suffered “from the vice of irregularity”.

Army Rule 180 stipulates that the military personnel, whose reputations are being questioned by the COI, has to be present when witness statements are being recorded and he or she should be given an opportunity to cross examine them.
Purohit, 39, had said in his plea: “The COI makes an investigation into the criminal offense punishable with jail sentence. Therefore, the mandatory character of Rule 180 cannot be ignored while holding a court martial.”

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 13 Mar 2011 09:15

Blue-Blood Bronco Gohel of “PHOTHA” – The Gorkha Rifles

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 15 Mar 2011 04:11

Gen praises Gujarat CM Modi, raises eyebrows at Army HQ

..............

Maj-Gen IS Singha, who as general officer commanding of the Golden Katar Division in Ahmedabad is the seniormost Army officer in Gujarat, was speaking at the launch of the three-day 'Know Your Army' exhibition which was inaugurated by Modi at the police stadium ground.

"He (Modi) works like we in the Army do. He sets a deadline for completion of projects and then ensures that targets are achieved in time. These are qualities of a successful Army commander," said Maj-Gen Singha.
..................

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Mar 2011 09:17

Indian Army and Maharashtra open university sign Mou for educating non-graduate Army personnel

"The main objective is to provide opportunities for higher education to the non-graduate Army personnel," said the University officials in a release.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 16 Mar 2011 16:21

Siachen Glacier: The Battle of the Roses

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Mar 2011 08:51

Indian Army to procure Medium-Range Loitering Missile

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Mar 2011 08:54

The Long Road to Siachen: The Question Why?

This has a joke by Musharraf

very interesting read.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Mar 2011 09:04

Indian Army lost 313 men in operations since 2009: Antony

Revealing the statistics, he said "Army lost 114 men in 2009, 187 men in 2010 and 12 in 2011 till March 8, while the Navy lost one of its men in 2009." He added that the Indian Air Force has not reporte any casuality in the period.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Mar 2011 09:45

chackojoseph wrote:Indian Army lost 313 men in operations since 2009: Antony

Revealing the statistics, he said "Army lost 114 men in 2009, 187 men in 2010 and 12 in 2011 till March 8, while the Navy lost one of its men in 2009." He added that the Indian Air Force has not reporte any casuality in the period.

So IAF crashes have been non fatal- thats good to hear including the crash of Surya Kirans in Hyderabad.

I think the ejection seats problems a few years ago have been sorted out.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Mar 2011 09:54

When was the INS Jalaswha incident? Didn't that have multiple casualities?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Mar 2011 09:58

not sure what counts as operations, there were many fatalities in IAF in that period, (su crash, mi-17 etc)
which means jalashwa won't count either.
the army ops are most likely CT ones.
which begs the question, what was the navy operation that cost a life.

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Mar 2011 10:02

IN MARCOS do participate in CT ops in J&K alongside the SF.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 17 Mar 2011 10:26

negi wrote:IN MARCOS do participate in CT ops in J&K alongside the SF.

AFAIK, Marcos already operates in J&K. There is an article on BR which gives description of some of their first operations in 90s.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Mar 2011 12:43

negi, yes, that's what I was wondering about. did they have a casualty in J&K in the last 2-3 years ?

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Mar 2011 13:48

^ Sorry no idea boss, having said that 1 IN sailor had died on board INS Delhi after he was hit by a live Ak-630 round being fired from INS Mumbai (this was after torpex 2010).

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Mar 2011 17:53

^^ Also, i recall one sailor being washed away after falling aboard during his night duty of one of the ships...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Mar 2011 18:08

I doubt those would count as operations ? otherwise IAF won't have showed zero.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Mar 2011 19:05

General V K Singh inducted into International Fellows Hall of Fame @ the US Army War College

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/banner/article.cfm?id=1900

Indian Army Chief Honoured at the US Army War College Hall of Fame

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=71130

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 Mar 2011 15:15

Indian Army tightens vigil on J&K state border with Pakistan occupied Kashmir amid infiltration reports

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 22 Mar 2011 03:28

Kolkata: Army lands in hotel row

Hastings is a restricted zone where no building of any kind can come up without an NOC from the General Officer Commanding, Bengal Area.

But according to documents available exclusively with Headlines Today, the 5-star hotel came up without the requisite NOC from the Army. It is to be noted, that even after the irregularity came to the Army's notice, the GOC in an internal report, recommended that a one-time exception be made for the construction of the 5-star hotel despite guidelines, which clearly state that such buildings should be demolished.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 22 Mar 2011 05:17

Rahul M wrote:negi, yes, that's what I was wondering about. did they have a casualty in J&K in the last 2-3 years ?

Yes they had 1 KIA a year or so back - there was an attack on MARCOS camp.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 22 Mar 2011 07:42

Army faces dearth of firing ranges

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 22 Mar 2011 19:01

Indian Army - Air Force Interactive Conference on jointness

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 23 Mar 2011 04:15

Army Puts on Hold Training of Troops in C'garh Base

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 24 Mar 2011 20:19

Ex-Army chief lied about his pay for Adarsh flat
General Kapoor misrepresented his salary because under the norms stipulated by the Adarsh Cooperative Housing Society, only individuals with monthly household income ranging between Rs 15,000 and Rs 30,000 per month were qualified to apply.
....
Earlier, CNN-IBN had revealed that General Kapoor during his stint as Army chief had written to then Maharashtra chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh asking for an exception to be made to domicile rules in the context of the Adarsh society.

Gerneral Kapoor is also alleged to own properties disproportionate to his know source of imcome.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 24 Mar 2011 21:11

Something that I had observed.
Army chief to inspect Arjun tank
His comments about the Arjun MBT
“What we have today is a mid-level technology. What we need is a tank of international quality,” Kapoor had said in November.

And DRDO has to defend itself saying.
However, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has defended the Arjun tank.

“Arjun is a proven tank. The defects are pertaining to quality control and production of the tank which can always be fine tuned,” a senior DRDO official said.

But the thing that he did, that has suprised me is this
Trials of Arjun battle tank to be delayed: Army chief
Indian Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor Friday said the comparative trials of the indigenously built Arjun main battle tank (MBT) with the Russian T-90 equivalent have been delayed as the army will first conduct field training with the tanks.

'The Arjun tank has just been delivered to us. It will take three-four months for the regiment to get operationalised. After that we will have comparative trials with the T-90 and assess the tank,' Gen. Kapoor told reporters here.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 24 Mar 2011 21:17

The Indian Army surely need some cleanup.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2011 22:16

The Arjun Mk.1 MBT beat the T-90 MBT in all respects in its March 2010 trials and was inducted into the Indian Armoured Corps on 12 March 2011. The Arjun joined the 75th Armoured Regiment in Jaisalmer, replacing the 75th AR's T-55 tank. A total of 248 (in two batches of 124) tanks - in the Mk 1 variant - will eventually join the Indian Army. The Mk 2 variant is being developed.

What more do you want Uddu? Catch fish while it is fording in water and cook it for you?

The links you posted are more than 2 years old. Please check the dates of the news links you post.

uddu wrote:Army chief to inspect Arjun tank

Trials of Arjun battle tank to be delayed: Army chief

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 24 Mar 2011 22:33

Well, some folk just want any excuse to bash the Army, and demand its "cleanup". Even if they have to resort to posting old news to get it. What I want to know is, why is MHA buying 35,000 foreign rifles for the BSF, when Indian options exist?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2011 22:33

Phoren Maal is always better than Desi Maal. The babu(s) who ordered these 35,000 foreign rifles can always give the excuse that the RFI was issued before the Indian models came into existence and by the time they inked the deal for the Phoren Maal, it was too late to conduct the trials for the Desi Maal. You should never put the country's security at risk, by delaying the procurement of much needed weaponry

ASPuar Saab, I am sure you have heard that one liner before from the hallowed halls of the GOI.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 25 Mar 2011 06:50

Rakesh wrote:The Arjun Mk.1 MBT beat the T-90 MBT in all respects in its March 2010 trials and was inducted into the Indian Armoured Corps on 12 March 2011. The Arjun joined the 75th Armoured Regiment in Jaisalmer, replacing the 75th AR's T-55 tank. A total of 248 (in two batches of 124) tanks - in the Mk 1 variant - will eventually join the Indian Army. The Mk 2 variant is being developed.

What more do you want Uddu? Catch fish while it is fording in water and cook it for you?

The links you posted are more than 2 years old. Please check the dates of the news links you post.

uddu wrote:Army chief to inspect Arjun tank

Trials of Arjun battle tank to be delayed: Army chief

You don't get it. This is more like Wikileaks cable issue. The issue may be 2 year old but I just want to point out that at that time, I remember it very clearly, the Army chief was clearly against the Arjun, and I was surprised and had come to the conclusion that as long as he is in office, there will be attempts to delay Arjun induction. And the news was just to point out that he did what he is supposed to or he did it for some strange reasons not known to us. Let me tell you, there is a section in the Army, who is against Indegenous products. I don't know why? But there exists.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 25 Mar 2011 08:32

ASPuar wrote:Well, some folk just want any excuse to bash the Army, and demand its "cleanup". Even if they have to resort to posting old news to get it. What I want to know is, why is MHA buying 35,000 foreign rifles for the BSF, when Indian options exist?

IA is held to a higher standard because most believe that MHA (and indeed anything to do with the current GoI) is beyond repair.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Mar 2011 08:44

As I grow older I get more and more amazed at the commonality of the thoughts and views held by me and my peers and the way the same biases are held across the nation by a vast number of Indians. Looking at it in that way it is easier to see how an Army general who might have been to school with me or as my contemporary might have (just like me and my peers) no clue whatsoever about technology and the hurdles and cycles of development and how technology is used as a bargaining chip, or to intimidate or blackmail. The man is competent. He does his army job well - and rises in the ranks. And just like me he is dazzled by the packaging and salesmanship of foreign goods in exhibitions while he remains contemptuous of Indian stuff.

It is only in the last 10-15 years - post BRF times that Indians in general have started to lift their heads out of the murky water and understand the true meaning of "national" strength. I have heard it stated that the army is the "most conservative" armed force - having the largest degree of inertia (or sloth) when it comes to change. But it will have to change and so also the mindset of our babus too - the seniormost of whom are my contemporaries. All old fossils who grew up in the 60s knowing that India is bullshit and foreign is good and felt jealous of those who went abroad and returned with dollars and advice on how to succeed in life.

jai · Post by **jai** » 25 Mar 2011 13:44

Shiv Saar,

You are right. The "Fauji's" of yesteryears were certainly not as tech savvy as the current generation, which, by the way for an average "Fauji" is still way behind in terms of an understanding of contemporary defence technology. I am not sure if this is because the training systems so far focussed only on the largely antique equipment in use over the last 50 + years. This is more so for Army than the other two forces.

You are also right in stating that they will have to change with time, and some welcome change is now coming thanks to frequent exercises with foreign militaries and with better modernization budgets/acquisitions/changes in threat perceptions and modernization of our potential enemies. IMO, this is the lesser of the issues that exist.

The biggest challenge is the changing mindset of the average "fauji" officer - where the lure of making a quick buck - just like the civilian bureaucrat counterparts, is fast corrupting the service. Average Fauji now believes less in meritocracy and more in hypocrisy and nepotism, and more so, as he finds a large number of his leaders - Cols and above indulging in the same. This problem is largely with officers and not still as much with other ranks - as opportunity for corruption is limited, and exposure and mindset is different.

The large numbers of senior officers getting exposed in various matters of corruption is just a sign of the rot that infests the services today, and is still a tip of the iceberg as far as the scale and public visibility is concerned - thanks to services keeping "internal" affairs "classified" and thanks also to laws like the dreaded "OSA" and "service rules" leading to soldiers even after retirement being too scared to expose the corruption they know exists. The "hands off" approach of the Judiciary - when it comes to matters defense does not inspire confidence of many of the retired servicemen either - who have little or no means to pursue expensive litigation to expose corruption. This is off - limits for RTI as well.

In a way, its a reflection of what is socially acceptable in our times. If the civil society today tolerates Babu's and politicians being corrupt to the core (most politicians' assets more than doubling each election despite no major means of legal income/ no prosecutions for disproportionate assets) then it has no choice and will have to accept the same in defense also; as defense is getting effected by the same social malices and socially "acceptable" standards for leaders in public life; however shocking it may seem to all - specially fellow jingo Rakshaks, this reality is staring us in the face today

This "national security" challenge is far bigger than the threat from across the borders and Naxals. It is a virus that we will have to learn to live with, as well as its implications.

End of rant, apologies for going OT.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Mar 2011 22:13

uddu wrote:You don't get it. This is more like Wikileaks cable issue. The issue may be 2 year old but I just want to point out that at that time, I remember it very clearly, the Army chief was clearly against the Arjun, and I was surprised and had come to the conclusion that as long as he is in office, there will be attempts to delay Arjun induction. And the news was just to point out that he did what he is supposed to or he did it for some strange reasons not known to us. Let me tell you, there is a section in the Army, who is against Indegenous products. I don't know why? But there exists.

After spending decades familiarizing themselves with Russian tanks…along comes the Arjun which is a vast improvement over anything the Armoured Corps had, but the doctrinal changes involved in adopting such a behemoth was not something they were looking forward to. In addition, the Armoured Corps had to make logistical changes if the Arjun was adopted and they were not interested in doing that either. However with the indigenous mantra being constantly hammered down the armed forces, the Armoured Corps had to show to the aam janta that they too were on the adopt desi maal bandwagon and went ahead with the trials and on occasion even sabotaged the Arjun to prove that the tank was not up to task.

Fortunately for the Arjun - Satyameva Jayate - it proved to be a superior tank than the T-72 and even the T-90. The 2010 trials proved that and the Armoured Corps had to admit – albeit sheepishly – that the Arjun MBT was an effective tank. The Armoured Corps had been constantly trying to delay the induction of the Arjun due to vested interests (the Russian lobby being one of them), but the delays finally led to the inevitable. The travesty out of this entire sordid episode is we are licensing producing 1000 T-90S MBTs and upgrading the T-72M1 MBT, while we are producing a paltry 248 Arjun MK 1 MBTs. Now that is strange.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 26 Mar 2011 02:57

aha we have the old Rakesh back.

yessss

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 26 Mar 2011 03:06

Madras Sappers make a mark in first-ever best sapper competition