Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)

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pankajs
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by pankajs »

x-post
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China buyers defer raw material cargos
Chinese consumers of thermal coal and iron ore are asking traders to defer cargos and – in some cases – defaulting on their contracts, in the clearest sign yet of the impact of the country’s economic slowdown on the global raw materials markets.

The deferrals and defaults have only emerged in the last few days, traders said, and have contributed to a drop in iron ore and coal prices.

“We have some clients in China asking us this week to defer volumes,” said a senior executive with a global commodities trading house, who warned that consumers were cautious. “China is hand to mouth at the moment.”

A senior executive at another large trading house also confirmed there had been defaults and deferrals in both thermal coal and iron ore.

China’s economy grew 8.1 per cent in the first quarter from the same period of 2011, the weakest rise in nearly three years but still pointing to a so-called soft landing.

Other key economic indicators followed by Chinese policy makers, including electricity consumption, rail cargo volumes and disbursement of bank loans, point to a sharper slowdown, suggesting the risk of a hard landing.

Soft commodities such as soyabeans and cotton have also seen Chinese customers default in the past two weeks, a trader at a third global trading house said.

Highlighting a “worrying” weakness in consumer spending inside China, Kim Youngha, the head of Samsung’s China operations, said he expected the domestic market for technology goods to grow 7 per cent this year in China, down from 10 per cent last year.

Yu Song, analyst at Goldman Sachs, told clients last week that Chinese economic activity was “exceedingly weak”. In response to recent dismal data, the Chinese central bank has cut the portion of deposits that banks must hold as reserves to encourage the flow of credit.

As the world’s main engine of commodities consumption, the Chinese business cycle is key for raw materials markets. The country is particularly important for bulk commodities such as iron ore, used in steelmaking, and thermal coal, used to fire power plants.

It is the world’s largest importer of iron ore, accounting for roughly 60 per cent of the seaborne market, while it ranks as the second top importer of coal, behind Japan and with a market share of 20 per cent of global trade.

Because of slowing economic growth and the high domestic stockpiles of many raw materials, China’s commodities imports in April, the latest month for which data are available, were unexpectedly weak, with iron ore imports hitting a six-month low and copper imports at an eight-month low.

Iron ore and thermal coal are critical to the profitability of blue-chip miners such as BHP Billiton, Vale of Brazil, Rio Tinto, Xstrata and Anglo American. The miners, under pressure from investors, have announced they will reduce investment in the next few years due to cooling commodities markets.

The price of the benchmark iron ore with 62 per cent iron content in Singapore fell on Friday to $135.25 a tonne, down nearly 9 per cent from the end April.

Colin Hamilton, commodities analysts at Macquarie, said sentiment in the iron ore market was “pretty weak”.

“People are worried about China and China is worried about Europe,” he said. “Everyone is worried about growth. You cannot decouple Europe from China.”

Thermal coal prices in the Australian port of Newcastle, the benchmark for Asia, fell on Friday to $97.5 a tonne after breaking below the $100 level earlier this month for the first time in 18 months.

The slump in thermal coal prices is also due to higher exports by US miners, which face lower domestic demand because of the lowest natural gas prices in a decade.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by abhischekcc »

ArmenT wrote:Accidentally Released - and Incredibly Embarrassing - Documents Show How Goldman et al Engaged in 'Naked Short Selling'
Looks like a Goldman Sachs lawyer really screwed up big time, by accidentally filing some interesting documents in a court case. The documents show that these guys were selling stock that they didn't have and the execs were aware of it.
Naked short selling is banned in India, not sure whether the same situation is true in the you yes.

But the GS lawyers releasing those documents is a :rotfl: :rotfl: moment. I guess these guys do not know how much scrutiny they are under right now.

Doing god's work indeed!
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by shyam »

Who says that China and US are rivals?

Exclusive: U.S. lets China bypass Wall Street for Treasury orders
China can now bypass Wall Street when buying U.S. government debt and go straight to the U.S. Treasury, in what is the Treasury's first-ever direct relationship with a foreign government, according to documents viewed by Reuters.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

Now you can see how China can keep its exchange rate controlled
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

Losing Shine
Losing shine
Don't invest short-term in gold, says www.NewsInsight.net's commodity markets' expert.

Bombay, 21 May 2012: Gold is losing shine after a decade and more. Investors are debating if the bull cycle in gold is finally coming to an end. In the last decade, gold prices have seen multiple corrections. Analysts in denial point to this to explain the recent troubled history of gold. But gold prices have sharply fallen despite the worst crisis in the Eurozone since its existence with a partner country thinking of exiting it.

This is uncanny.

In normal course, a situation such as the Eurozone crisis would lead to a rush to buy gold. But investors have commenced selling gold to buy the US dollar, which is seen as a new safe instrument. Post the 2008 financial market crisis, when the US first started the quantitative easing programme by pumping liquidity into the banking system, dollar assets were considered safe but gold was reckoned to be safer. Gold is now giving way to the dollar.

Gold has been spooked by fears that such financially troubled European states as Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc, may start selling their gold reserves. These countries have a lion's share of gold in their reserves. Portugal has 382.5 tons of gold (84.8 per cent of total foreign exchange reserves), Spain 281.6 tons (40.7 per cent of forex) and Greece 111.5 tons (79.5 per cent). In addition, several European central banks have huge reserves in gold although they are holding it despite the agreement among them to reduce the precious metal from their forex reserves.

The second fear relates to exchange traded funds or products investors selling their gold. Their gold possessions total 2400 tonnes, which isn't considerable, and they have so far remained resilient to the crisis affecting the precious metal. But they could turn negative, with prices exposed to significant downside risks. This anxiety was recently articulated by Barclays' Commodity Research analyst, Suki Cooper.

Tactical investors and speculators, for their part, have started to say that after almost a decade, gold has slipped into bear grip. Gold prices have fallen 17 per cent from its all-time high of $1900 per ounce seen in September 2011. Silver is down 40 per cent from a high seen a year ago in April 2011. Even in the current financial year beginning last April, gold has fallen 5 per cent and silver lost 11 per cent, which was not seen in the last one decade. Most analysts have started giving bearish calls on gold prices for the short term. "Ever since gold started its phenomenal rally way back in 2001, I have never seen gold disrespecting any kind of chart pattern," said Aurobinda Prasad, head of commodities at Karvy Comtrade. "This is the first time after the eleventh year rally when prices in an exhaustion phase are causing alarm."

In the week when JPMorgan declared losses of $2 billion on synthetic credit securities after "egregious'" failure on the part of its chief investment officer, gold and silver lost further ground. In the international market, gold was trading at $1594 per ounce and silver at $28.6 per ounce. In Bombay's Zaveri Bazaar, silver was trading near to its five-month low of Rs 54,400. Gold was around Rs 28,600 per 10 gram.

The JPMorgan issue has the potential to take a serious turn. A senior functionary of a leading international investment bank said the way the CEO of JPMorgan called a hurried press conference to announce the losses makes it appear they are bigger than being revealed. He also said that when the market knows that an entity is in trouble for placing wrong bets, many players would be tempted to place the opposite bets. This would make it even more difficult for the troubled entity to come out of its problems.

This could lead to another crisis in financial markets and investors may be tempted to encash holdings in gold to meet other losses. Last week, gold prices spurted due to short covering but bears are holding on to most of their short bets and said to be aiming to break the next support level for gold at $1528 seen in December last. A commodity analyst with Angel Broking believes that "Gold has lost its appeal as a safe investment in the last few months as investors are currently flocking towards the dollar. The Euro has also been depreciating and gold has been following the downtrend of equities in the last few months."

Dollar and gold have traditionally shown inverse relationship. Meaning, when the dollar rises, gold falls, and vice-versa. Dollar is rising, and in the last two weeks, the dollar index went up by almost 4 per cent and trading at 81.60. Eurozone is also passing through political uncertainty leading to the fall in Euro. If the political crisis in Eurozone persists after elections in major economies, then the Euro may slip further against the dollar.

Suki Cooper of Barclays' Commodity Research has another explanation for the rising dollar and falling gold. "While precious metals are reacting negatively to political uncertainties in Europe," says Cooper, "physical demand from major consuming countries like India is not coming, though China is buying gold which is providing support". Barclays, however, is bullish for gold in the medium-to-long term.

India is in a peculiar situation as gold prices are completely dependent on international prices. Internationally, gold is falling as the dollar is strengthening. When the dollar strengthens, the Indian rupee falls. When the rupee falls, gold prices in rupee terms go up. In the last month, international gold prices have fallen. But in India last fortnight, gold touched a record high of Rs 29,400 per 10 gram. The weakening rupee is not letting gold prices fall in the Indian market.

GFMS Thomson Reuters, a leading research agency for gold, recently said in its survey that the metal could fall up to $1450 per ounce but eventually rise to $2000 in 2012 itself. However, the London-based Natixis Commodity Markets' report released recently lowers the prospect for a gold rally.

The Natixis report says, "There are three principal factors that have driven the price of gold so far this year; central bank demand from developing countries, consumer demand from India and China and the prospect of further quantitative easing, particularly in the US. To date, while Indian demand has disappointed, demand from China and developing country central banks has helped to support gold prices. With the market still undecided regarding the prospects for further quantitative easing from the US Fed, this uncertainty has led to substantial volatility in gold prices."

Continues the Natixis report, "Amid renewed concerns over both the European and US economies in recent weeks, the prospects for further quantitative easing cannot yet be ruled out. Furthermore, if our analysis of central bank demand for gold is correct, central banks will remain buyers of gold at lower prices, helping to moderate gold price volatility. We have therefore moderated our central scenario slightly, envisaging an average price of $1,540/oz in 2012 followed by $1,210/oz in 2013."

Meanwhile, Biren Vakil, Ahmedabad-based commodity risk advisor to several corporates, says, "In India, gold will remain the best choice for investors and it will retain its status as a store of value. Falling rupee is acting as a floor for gold prices."

Gold has remained a store of value in India. Problem arises when it is seen as an investment asset. Gold investors expect increase in prices. But what goes up has to fall. The several crore marriages taking place in India, the many occasions for gifting, and so forth, will always keep gold's attraction alive. But all these are for the long term. Fact is, in the past two months, there was demand for gold only on Akshaya Tritiya day. High prices have kept buyers away. No marriage mahurats for next few months is also one reason for postponing buying of gold.

Email your comments to [email protected].
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

maria bartiromo browbeat and harassed a honest looking indic prof of economics at tufts univ who dared to criticize the JPM CEO on TV.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

These are corporate media owned by the same investment banking and large corp.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

Singha wrote:what hurd began, whitman aims to complete I suppose. TOI was reporting hurd cut funds to HP R&D labs so bad some scientists were secretly using pirated sw for their work.
There could be a political angle to this. Whitman was Repub candidate for CA governor and lost. She might be also cutting the jobs to increase the pain before the elections in November to dim others chances.

Expect a lot of to and fro among the partisan business groups to support their political parties
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by RamaY »

Few dots that are created by 2008 meltdown

E-Khan-O-mist's latest issue talks about decline/end of public companies... And more and more companies going the route of Private Capital. The MNCs want public money (retirement funds, pention funds etc) but not public supervision and scrutiny

Decline of Europe

Europe's reliance on US

Russia as the boogeyman to keep US in the EU-trap (past articles on US ignoring NATo and EU centric world systems)

Redrawing of ME (wells of wealth) - everytime there is war/uncertainty in EU, it lead to redrawing of ME

Socialistic policy making in Asia (to keep the growth rates low) - NREGA and 2G system in India and recent Politbeauro shakeup in China

Africa - encroachment of Africa (this time in the guise of corporate forming etc)
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Satya_anveshi »

On the other hand, as I mentioned a while ago, the increased volatility and doom-bust market "corrections" correlate with the G-8 or G-x meetings and more precisely when POTUS goes on lecture tour with hat in hand and spreading his disease to others.

Even as one watches the market trend and economic data closely, clever minds wants to gather resources, keep the power dry, and identify potential opportunities to make an appropriate move.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Jayram »

ramana wrote:
Singha wrote:what hurd began, whitman aims to complete I suppose. TOI was reporting hurd cut funds to HP R&D labs so bad some scientists were secretly using pirated sw for their work.
There could be a political angle to this. Whitman was Repub candidate for CA governor and lost. She might be also cutting the jobs to increase the pain before the elections in November to dim others chances.

Expect a lot of to and fro among the partisan business groups to support their political parties
I don't know about the politics of this but HP needs some good leadership. And so far she seems to be doing a better job than her immediate 3 predecessors. However time will tell if she is the savior or not of this complex company that has been eaten from within by so many CEO and their chelas looking for quick fixes..
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

one way could be split the printer & copier division into a separate co - it will be huge and profitable on its own.
next make the enterprise SW & server division into another co. this again has good stuff.
get out of the consumer PC / laptop space by selling it off to competitors.
dont get into consumer devices like home printers , memory sticks etc etc.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

Zillow: Phoenix has second-highest rate of underwater homeowners
Phoenix Business Journal by Kristena Hansen, Reporter
Date: Thursday, May 24, 2012, 9:00am MST - Last Modified: Thursday, May 24, 2012, 9:06am MST
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news ... tml?page=2

Slightly more than half of Phoenix-area homeowners with mortgages were underwater in the first quarter of 2012.

Reporter- Phoenix Business Journal

Slightly more than half of Phoenix-area homeowners with mortgages were underwater in the first quarter of 2012, generating roughly $39 billion in total negative equity, according to a report released Thursday from Zillow Inc.

Many of those metro Phoenix homeowners aren’t so deeply underwater, the report said, with about 23 percent owing anywhere between 1 and 20 percent of the value of their homes.
However, a greater number were much worse off -- about 27 percent owed double what their home is worth in the first quarter, the report said. Another 9 percent were at least 90 days delinquent, but the study emphasized that being underwater does not necessarily mean foreclosure is inevitable.

Among the 30 or so markets nationwide the Zillow study examined, Phoenix’s underwater home rate was second highest, although it fared better than the whopping 71 percent Las Vegas had that same quarter.
The overall underwater home rates in Arizona was 52.3 percent in the first quarter and and 66.9 percent in Nevada. They were the top two sates in the country for the dubious honor.

Nationwide, nearly one third of mortgage holders, or 15.7 million, were underwater, according to the report. That brings the nation’s total negative equity to about $1.2 trillion in the first quarter, which is a miniscule improvement from the same period last year.
Zillow’s negative equity study puts somewhat of a damper on other reports that show Phoenix home values have continued on an upswing so far this year.
Most recently, the FNC Residential Price Index released figures on Wednesday that showed Valley home prices were 1.4 percent higher in March than the month prior. Nationally, the FNC reported month-over-month home values rose by an average of one-half percent.

“Negative equity remains an issue for the housing market as a whole, and poses a risk to any recovery,” said Stan Humphries, Zillow’s chief economist. “Not only does negative equity tie many to their homes, by making homeowners unable to move when they may want to, but if economic growth slows and unemployment rises, more homeowners will be unable to make timely mortgage payments, increasing delinquency rates and eventually foreclosures.”
Zillow’s reports its data by comparing current values of individual owner-occupied homes with their outstanding loan amounts, which are provided by TransUnion.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Austin »

Forecast by Russian Parliament for 2012 on Russian Economy

1 ) GDP at 60 trillion roubles ( $ 1.87 Trillion )
2 ) Inflation at 5 - 6 %
3 ) Budget Deficit at 0.1 % of GDP ( due to higher oil revenues )
4 ) Russian Reserve Fund and the Sovereign Wealth Fund Accumulated: 8.7 % of GDP

State Duma raises budget revenues, expenditures for 2012, thus decreasing its deficit
MOSCOW, May 25 (Itar-Tass) — Russia’s State Duma has adopted a law to update major parameters of the federal budget for 2012, which was caused by the implementation of the state budget in 2011 and January-March 2012. The indices were calculated on the basis of the projected results of the country’s socio-economic development and the budget implementation in the current year.

Proceeding from the updated indicators of the socio-economic development, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is projected to go up from 58.683 trillion roubles (USD 1 = RUB 31.76) to 60.59 trillion roubles in 2012.

The Urals oil blend price is forecasted at 115 U.S. dollars per barrel, instead of 100 U.S. dollars per barrel. The year’s average dollar exchange rate is established at 29.2 roubles per the U.S. dollar, instead of 28.7 roubles per the U.S. dollar. The salary fund should be at 14.75 trillion roubles instead of the initial level of 14.472 trillion roubles.

In the mean time, the consumer inflation rate remains unchanged at the level between five and six percent.

The federal budget revenues increased by 897.1 billion roubles to 12.677 billion roubles, of them 808.4 billion roubles account for the oil and gas incomes and 88.7 billion roubles for non-petroleum revenues. The federal budget deficit was cut from 1.5 percent to 0.1 percent of the GDP.

From the additional oil and gas revenues, about 500 billion roubles are planned to be spent for the decline of internal borrowings, while the remaining part will be used for the increase of the Reserve Fund, whose amount was at 2.657 trillion roubles at the end of 2011 (under the Finance Ministry’s estimate). Besides, the Russian Reserve Fund and the Sovereign Wealth Fund are projected to accumulate 8.7 percent of the GDP by the end of the year.

The federal budget expenditures were increased by 88.7 billion roubles to 12.745 billion roubles owing to the hike of the non-oil and gas revenues.

With due account of the additional non-oil and gas revenues and the projected retrenchment, 135.6 billion roubles was offered to be assigned for the social security, improvement of the population’s living conditions, growth of salaries and wages, development of ITC, modernisation, upgrading, re-equipment, capital repairs, contributions to international organisations, investments and hosting of international events.

Chairman of the State Duma Budget and Taxation Committee Andrei Makarov (United Russia) drew attention of reporters that this was the first amendment to the federal budget, in the discussion of which the Communists and LDPR factions not only took an active part, but also supported the changes.

Moreover, the State Duma adopted a related decree, which envisages its priorities in the budgeting process, Makarov said.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by shyamd »

PRC/Global stimulus of some sort anounced soon per some people.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Suraj »

QE3 by another name onlee...
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by shyamd »

Hearing PIMCO asked employees to cancel vacations to have "all hands on deck" for a Lehman-type event. Unconfirmed though.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Altair »

shyamd wrote:Hearing PIMCO asked employees to cancel vacations to have "all hands on deck" for a Lehman-type event. Unconfirmed though.
Also make note of the following
Metals (both base and bullion) have crashed to support levels.
Crude is totally clueless.
Big companies like HP, HSBC, IBM, NEC have the highest quality of data to give an accurate financial forecast model. They did not exactly inspire confidence in the market in 1st quarter of 2012 by layoffs.
Spain and Greece are on the brink of euro exit.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Suraj »

shyamd wrote:Hearing PIMCO asked employees to cancel vacations to have "all hands on deck" for a Lehman-type event. Unconfirmed though.
But why PIMCO ? They're a bond shop, not an equity house. Sounds like they see the potential for a Euro contagion arising from a fear driven yield spike in Spain or Italy.

VikramS - have you been hearing any chatter ?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Christopher Sidor »

There are strong indications that Greece might be asked or pushed out of EURO. This is unless we see certain EURO-nations softening their stand on Greece, fulfilling all of its commitments under the bailout package. If Greece is pushed out then all the bond holders, including PIMCO, will wonder if Greece can be pushed out why not Italy or Spain or any of the other PIIGS countries too? Bond market is big, very very big. This is also the market in which most of the retirement funds, insurance fund, corporate debt, soverign debt, etc. gets played out. A Greek debt exit would be bad, very very bad for India in the short and medium term, i.e. 1-3 years. Our biggest trading partner is Europe. So is China's.

Further if Greece is pushed out, EURO might end up becoming a currency of rich-European-nations only. Off course this all depends on what is the priority for Germany and its rich-allies of Euro-zone. Is it to take European integration to the next logical step or to take a retrograde step?

Coming back to India, we are going to have a horrible Q2-2012. There are now murmurs coming out that all the growth/development in India in the past decade was just a case of corny capitalism or a hype created by few. There was no actual development. Just some resource/robber-barons playing in the commodities or real-estate speculation, which got sold as rising India story. As it is we are rated one level above junk by certain ratings agency. We might not like it, we may not give these rating agencies much credence, but unfortunately the investment world still puts a lot of faith in these agencies and their reports. Our wounds are self-inflicted and our healing will also have to be self-applied.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

It could lead to political blackmail.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

PIMCO singapore office I think recently said PRC growth this yr will be around 7%

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-0 ... w-by-pimco
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

http://www.examiner.com/article/market- ... omic-crash

Market rumor: Pimco and JP Morgan halt vacations to prepare for economic crash

Kenneth Schortgen Jr
Finance Examiner

On June 1, market rumors were coming out of a hedge fund luncheon stating that Pimco, JP Morgan, and other financial companies were cancelling summer vacations for employees so they could prepare for a major 'Lehman type' economic crash projected for the coming months. These rumors came on a day when the markets nearly came to capitulation, with the DOW falling more than 274 points, and gold soaring over $63 as traders across the board fled stocks and moved into safer investments.

Todd Harrison tweet: Hearing (not confirmed) @PIMCO asked employees to cancel vacations to have "all hands on deck" for a Lehman-type tail event. Confirm?

Todd M. Schoenberger tweet: @todd_harrison @pimco I heard the same thing, but I also heard the same for "some" at JPM. Heard it today at a hedge fund luncheon.

Todd Harrison is the CEO of the award winning internet media company Minyanville, while Todd Shoenberger is a managing principal at the Blackbay Group, and an adjunct professor of Finance at Cecil College.

Pimco and JP Morgan Chase are not the only financial institutions worried about a potential repeat of the 2008 credit crisis. On May 31, one day before Pinco rumors began to spread around the markets, World Bank President Robert Zoellick issued the same warnings of a potential 'rerun of the great panic of 2008'.

The head of the World Bank yesterday warned that financial markets face a rerun of the Great Panic of 2008.

On the bleakest day for the global economy this year, Robert Zoellick said crisis-torn Europe was heading for the ‘danger zone’.

Mr Zoellick, who stands down at the end of the month after five years in charge of the watchdog, said it was ‘far from clear that eurozone leaders have steeled themselves’ for the looming catastrophe amid fears of a Greek exit from the single currency and meltdown in Spain.

Market indicators over the past two months in Europe have been signalling an economic slowdown, with the potential for total economic collpase increasing over the past few weeks. The US markets have dropped more than 1000 points since their highs in March, and on Friday, all gains for the year were completely wiped out after the shocking jobs report was issued.

Additionally, a new study from a former hedge fund manager on May 31st outlined that for the first time in the economic cycle, economies did not recover all their losses from prior recessions before going into a new one. The conclusions point to the need for a complete reset of the financial systems, as capitalism and central bank intervention (money printing) no longer have any real effect on economic growth.

When one company decides to cancel vacations, or impose additional workloads on their employees due to projected events, it is not considered relative news. However, when several institutions, analysts, and even the head of the World Bank acknowledge a coming crisis, then everyone needs to come to the realization that something big is on the horizon that will have an effect on both Wall Street and Main Street. The rumors out on June 1 regarding Pimco and JP Morgan should be a wake up call to all investors that Friday's market drops across the board are just the beginning of what could be a repeat of 2008, only much worse this time around. :((
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

its going to be hard to find takers to host the olympic games. I see it going out of fashion and devolving into smaller meets around groups of sports in different places. nobody has the enthu for a $20b bill anymore.

Rio is committed and will get smacked with a huge bill in 2016. maybe some oil rich sultanate like qatar or kazakhstan might be willing but not the mainstream.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by VikramS »

Just the usual stuff which everyone is hearing.

Germans are sticking to their guns, so the question is not if Greece leaves but when it leaves.
I think they will try and make an example of Greece to show the PIIS of what happens when you do not play ball.
But the problem is that these countries are democracies and politicians are the same everywhere; gaddi bigger than anything.

What might happen is a new Euro emerging with the stronger N. European economies which may become the global currency of choice since it will be on relatively sold ground compared to the current Euro. There is also a strong talk of German/Russian realignment which makes a lot of sense for them.

Also it is unlikely that we will have QE3 unless their is a major collapse in the market. This is a presidential year and Ben can not act too partisan. However they will try other tricks (swaps, LTRO etc.) to keep on pumping money.

We are living in truly interesting times indeed. Almost every developed economy is/will print, and that includes China.

Incidentally when it comes to India, it does not matter since even if the RBI does not print, the ISI does. With the right leadership, India with its vast PM wealth could emerge much stronger player in the global picture.

Get ready for very choppy and volatile action. In 2008 it was all one-way; in 2012 we have the printing presses working over time creating money. Big sell-offs followed by even bigger rallies.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

men of courage and ambition who know how to play things and go for jaguar vein will likely make fortunes in these times with the right big bets.

I am sure the next breed of hedge fund billionaires will appear in a couple of years.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Altair »

VikramS wrote: Incidentally when it comes to India, it does not matter since even if the RBI does not print, the ISI does.
Perhaps RBI can give an open tender to print Indian currency to ISI as well when they invite Indian Government Security Press's :rotfl:
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Suraj »

Thanks, VikramS! What's your take on the potential for another black swan event, this time consuming a bond house or two ? With the potential for an unmanaged sovereign default in Greece (as opposed to the default-in-all-but-name back in March) it's possible that some big bond shop may be left holding the bag. To me it all points to an even bigger treasury bubble with everyone running to the 'safety of USD/treasuries' (ha!)
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

VikramS wrote: With the right leadership, India with its vast PM wealth could emerge much stronger player in the global picture.
This is the key. The original global trading trust is being restored by real valuation across the world.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

There is no stopping this...We are still on track as I have been predicting for a while now for a fall/winter collapse of the Eurozone and naked exposure of all derivative markets the world over. Europeans will go through a major reset, after time they will recover as Europeans do not carry the type of personal debt that Americans do. It is for America that I worry. Look for these signs next:

1- JPM will be bailed out again but it will not stop the coming market crash. More details will emerge about their derivative swap failure $150 billion and counting.

2-BOA (BAC Bank of America) will fold and be absorbed into JPM as a way to prop up the bleeding Giant. JPM will get the best picking of this deal just like they got with Bear Stearns.

3- Massive layoffs at Citigroup and Wells Fargo

4- Goldman Sachs finally pays the piper, look for massive cuts there as well as BIG Losses

5- Bond market bust which leads to freeze of all bond sales

6- Derivative bust the next one will be BOA followed by Citigroup

7- All CDS shorts and swaps will freeze.

8- Total Meltdown

You can read the rest of what that source is saying right here.

As I have been saying all along, there are two keys that you need to be watching right now....

#1 Europe

#2 Derivatives
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... -is-coming
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

Image
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

Soros' bubble analogy and his characterization of the arc of the Euro project really helps make this understandable.
These four paragraphs really form the meat of the speech. They're worth reading in full:
I contend that the European Union itself is like a bubble. In the boom phase the EU was what the psychoanalyst David Tuckett calls a “fantastic object” – unreal but immensely attractive. The EU was the embodiment of an open society –an association of nations founded on the principles of democracy, human rights, and rule of law in which no nation or nationality would have a dominant position.

The process of integration was spearheaded by a small group of far sighted statesmen who practiced what Karl Popper called piecemeal social engineering. They recognized that perfection is unattainable; so they set limited objectives and firm timelines and then mobilized the political will for a small step forward, knowing full well that when they achieved it, its inadequacy would become apparent and require a further step. The process fed on its own success, very much like a financial bubble. That is how the Coal and Steel Community was gradually transformed into the European Union, step by step.

Germany used to be in the forefront of the effort. When the Soviet empire started to disintegrate, Germany’s leaders realized that reunification was possible only in the context of a more united Europe and they were willing to make considerable sacrifices to achieve it. When it came to bargaining they were willing to contribute a little more and take a little less than the others, thereby facilitating agreement. At that time, German statesmen used to assert that Germany has no independent foreign policy, only a European one.

The process culminated with the Maastricht Treaty and the introduction of the euro. It was followed by a period of stagnation which, after the crash of 2008, turned into a process of disintegration. The first step was taken by Germany when, after the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, Angela Merkel declared that the virtual guarantee extended to other financial institutions should come from each country acting separately, not by Europe acting jointly. It took financial markets more than a year to realize the implication of that declaration, showing that they are not perfect.
Bubbles always look stupid and unjustifiable in retrospect, but at the time they usually contain an internal, coherent logic. And as Soros puts it, the logic of this bubble was: Anytime the existing Eurozone structure reached an impasse, the leaders would fix it.
If it had been inevitable that the market would evolve towards full fiscal integration, then it made perfect sense to treat Italy and Spain as de facto risk-free borrowers. Within the logic of the bubble, it made sense for the spread between Italian and Spanish and German borrowing costs to collapse to zero.
But as Soros notes, the financial crisis, and Merkel's declaration that each country would be responsible for their own bank bailouts crushed the logic of the bubble.
When the bubble logic was over, then all of the related assumptions, like the risk-free-ness of the peripheral nations came into question, and the sovereign debt crisis began.
Bottom line: Soros' speech is going viral because he fills in a big piece of the narrative. And although some are whining that he's giving the speech ex-post facto, most people aren't even good at explaining what happened in the past.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/george-s ... z1wtQuJAYv
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Austin »

US role to fade with China calling shots as creditor – economist
China has accumulated enough financial resources to induce borrowers US and EU to share power, argues Arvind Subramanian, senior fellow jointly at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and the Center for Global Development.

­In an exclusive interview to RT the author of Eclipse: Living in the Shadow of China’s Economic Dominance explained how disputable currency policies from creditor China and borrower America dictate the political weather around the globe.

RT: Is China really dominating? Because the US is still the richest country in the world?

Arvind Subramanian: At the moment China’s GDP is smaller than that of the US, that’s true. But if you measure it in terms of purchasing power – it is as big as the United States’. Secondly, China is already the world’s largest trader. Thirdly – China is a big net creditor to the world. It finances the US and the US is a debtor. This combination confers China a lot of power.

Over the next 10-15 years all these numbers are going to go in China’s favor.

China has 3.3 trillion dollars in cash. If Europe gets into trouble, which country in the world has the ability to bail out Europe? Not the US – China. When it has that ability – it can always exercise power.

RT: What could be the political ramifications of Chinese power?

AS: The US wants China to be on its side. If China were on the side of the US things would be so much easier.

Economic power can always be leverage for political and foreign policy objectives. Still it is mutually dependent relations.

The fact that China has so much economic and financial power can always be used for political needs.

RT: Isn’t it good for restoring balance? When there is not just one kid on the block ruling everything?

AS: Some would say if you have one big good guy – maybe it’s better than having multiple guys who kind of cannot agree on anything.

RT: That is a very unilateral world. One guy can actually turn into a bad one at some point.

AS: That is exactly the risk. But having multiple sources of power, you can also get paralysis in decision-making. So whether cooperation is easier with one hegemon or multiple sources of power is an open question. You can argue it both ways.

RT: Has money-printing become America's main business?

AS: I think yes and no. On one hand, they have printed a lot of money in the last 3-4 years. But they would argue with some fairness that it is what you needed to get the economy back from recession.

RT: Don’t you see a hint of hypocrisy when the US is bashing China over its currency policy while playing with its own currency?

AS: There is a parallel, but it is overdone. Even though the US has been printing a lot of money in the 2-3 years after the crisis, the dollar has not weakened but has become stronger. You print a lot of money if you want to make your currency cheaper… But because the rest of the world still has so much confidence in the dollar, because of the crisis they all came to the dollar and it has become strong.

The effect of all that printing money has not been to make currency cheaper, whereas Chinese policies have made the Chinese currency cheaper.

RT: Dollar dominance allows the US to live beyond its means. How long can it last?

AS: It cannot last indefinitely because of these drives of China… Gradually over time the Chinese currency will start to displace the dollar because people will have more confidence in the Chinese currency than in the American currency. That will be a gradual process. But at some point it will start to happen rapidly. And at that point the US no longer has to live beyond its means. That is going to happen within the next 10-15 years.

RT: The IMF is traditionally dominated by Europe and the US. Do you think this current crisis could shift the centers of power in the IMF?

AS: To some extent it is happening already, though the formal voting is still very much biased in favor of Europe and the US. But the more Europe gets into trouble – the more it will need money from the outside.

Only China, Russia and Brazil have money to provide it – they will ask to change the system.

Borrowers don’t have power, creditors call the shots.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

on the arms front where the US has so far enjoyed huge advantage in scale x quality, we see clear signs of fading out over the next few decades in platforms side - everything is being curtailed or cancelled - seawolf, DDX21, LCS, crusader, raptor, JSF...and many many more. the focus is on value engineering and upgrades or improvements to make existing kit stretch longer. the US is also unable to deliver any product ranging from a hand grenade to a satellite without being grossly over budget, requirement creeped to death, overdue and subject to big cuts in production.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Suraj »

All off-topic Indian developmental discussion moved here
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Christopher Sidor »

All the central bankers are today offering soothing words, without any action. This European farce is slowly grinding on like the Fukushima disaster with no end in sight. What happens, if Greece remains in EURO does not fulfill its obligations under the PSI bailout plan? It will become a pariah. Such an action would be a shot in the arm for those who oppose giving help to so called "countries in need of structural reforms".

However a greek exit might end up being like a Lehman moment. The collapse of Lehman Brothers ended up focusing the US Fed's and US Treasury minds like no other thing. Think about AIG, think about granting the so called "naked bank holding companies" licenses to Goldman and Morgan Stanely and all the other things that followed, like the bailout of GM and its finance subsidiary arm. So there might be tremendous pain in a Greek exit, but it might be one thing that actually prevents the collapse of the house called EURO.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by pankajs »

Spain Warns It Needs Help
MADRID—Spain made its most explicit suggestion yet that it would seek help from Europe for its struggling banks, as the country's budget minister said high interest rates on Spanish bonds were a signal the government risks losing access to financial markets.
The crisis in Spain, the euro zone's fourth-largest economy, is seen in financial markets as the acid test for the survival of the European common currency. Spain's troubles—unlike those of Greece, whose economy is one-fifth the size—can't be blamed on reckless government spending, but instead on a bursting real-estate bubble. The country is also widely considered too big to bail out, presenting Germany, which holds the euro-zone's purse strings, with a gigantic headache.
"What that premium says is that Spain doesn't have the market's door open," he said. "The challenge is to open that door and regain the confidence of those markets, our creditors."

Other Spanish officials have said it is more precise to say foreign buyers of Spanish bonds had completely disappeared from the market.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Singha »

I see no evidence yet that the spanish and greeks have started eating less or buying less clothes from their lavish household budgets.
is anyone tracking grocery sales, consumer durable sales, textile sales in these PIIGS?

all these troubles seem to be govt accounting issues, not yet hit the common mans household.

when the food and spending levels get down to the level of egypt or algeria, then yes one can say they have hit a problem. rest is all window dressing to get others to continue funding their lifestyle.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Altair »

Greece WILL leave the eurozone on January 1, 2013. When it will be announced to Public depends on many factors. Contingency plans have been prepared by every country and financial firms for the same date.
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