Bharat Rakshak

disha wrote:At this stage., shourya'ji - you have to point out the steps how 'current BM' is being converted into foreign exchange. Unless that point, your statement is invalid.

disha wrote: So again., just because my friends-friends-fourth cousin-72 times removed states that the 'current BM' is being converted into foreign currency - it does not mean it is being done so. The cause of the fall in rupee value needs to be looked somewhere else. Just because we have a data point and a theory., we cannot use confirmation bias to fit that data point to the theory.

At this stage., shourya'ji - you have to point out the steps how 'current BM' is being converted into foreign exchange. Unless that point, your statement is invalid.

shiv wrote:

ShauryaT wrote:Your money in your bank is your property. It is with the bank for safe keeping, for which a bank may charge you a fee.

In India your money in a savings account earns a minimum of 4% per annum in interest and you don't pay the bank anything. In other words your deposit is a loan to the bank with a promise that you can take the money out at any time subject to a minimum balance. I am not sure of the legal differences between a simple deposit where the bank charges you for safekeeping (like a bank locker) versus a savings account such as the one I have described.

ShauryaT wrote:Disha: With due respect, was not born yesterday to believe in stories. You can believe what you want. You can also believe that this is hearsay and has no truth to it. It is being done is a fact for me and I have no reason to question and that is where the matter rests. How they are doing it and its modus operandi is also clear to me. You can ask people you trust or know. It entails all the risks that Suraj lists. I will end this part here.

ShauryaT wrote:ot going to detail how illegal acts take place. Hence ending it.

Suraj wrote:WAY too much mental bandwidth is being wasted on describing cool new hacks, without really understanding that it cannot be scaled beyond a few thousand.

This fails on so many levels, I'm surprised people still peddle these stories. There are not even 0.5% of that many dollars in open circulation in India. Those who supposedly have it abroad cannot bring it back (hawala is dead). And no one who supposedly sits on so much actual wealth is giving it away for toilet paper *and* take on the headache of depositing it without being noticed.

ShauryaT wrote:It is being done is a fact for me and I have no reason to question and that is where the matter rests. How they are doing it and its modus operandi is also clear to me.

shiv wrote: So this actually offers a route for racketeers with foreign exchange in hand. If say US$ can be sold at Rs 100 per dollar in exchange for old currency, that money can theoretically be converted to white until 31st December. Ultimately the total volume of conversion cannot be very high. Like stock market day trading a man with US$ 10,000 which would probably get him 6.7 lakh normally can make 10 lakhs and place it in the accounts of 4 - 6 relatives. Not bad for 50 days work. But it is of no use for a person who has exchange hundreds of crores of Rupees in cash.

parashara wrote:

Suraj wrote: Sure liabilities can't be written off. So what liability exists on cash that was never deposited again, exactly ?

An example to illustrate this is: Assume a guy was in a coma from 1 Jan 2016 to 31 Dec 2017. He wakes up to find that his stash of old notes is no longer legal tender and not acceptable at any bank in the land. He can, however, show up at an RBI office, present his notes and ask to be compensated via deposit, exchange or in gold. The RBI cannot turn around and say that while he was in a coma, the value equivalent of his stash was transferred as dividend to the GoI and as such has evaporated.

parashara wrote:According to this guy - a genuine currency note with an undertaking from any current/past governors of the RBI is a liability even if it never comes back to the RBI. This, according to him, is primarily because a currency note has no expiry date and is hence legally a contract (to pay) in force forever.

parashara wrote:An example to illustrate this is: Assume a guy was in a coma from 1 Jan 2016 to 31 Dec 2017. He wakes up to find that his stash of old notes is no longer legal tender and not acceptable at any bank in the land. He can, however, show up at an RBI office, present his notes and ask to be compensated via deposit, exchange or in gold. The RBI cannot turn around and say that while he was in a coma, the value equivalent of his stash was transferred as dividend to the GoI and as such has evaporated.

This is the rub.

disha wrote:Guess what., this actually converts the Indian money in black into white, but converts the USD from white to black or retains the USD in black (depends upon the source of the USD).

Mumbai, Nov. 26: The Reserve Bank has introduced an incremental cash reserve ratio (CRR) of 100 per cent for the fortnight beginning today to absorb the surge in liquidity in the banking system following demonetisation of high-value notes.

The CRR, which is now 4 per cent, is a portion of deposits that banks are required to park with the RBI.

According to the RBI guidelines, "On the increase in net demand and time liabilities between September 16 and November 11, scheduled banks shall maintain an incremental CRR of 100 per cent, effective fortnight beginning November 26, 2016."

Estimates show that this could be Rs 3.5 lakh crore.

The apex bank said it would review the decision on December 9, or earlier, as the incremental CRR was intended to be a temporary measure within its liquidity management framework to drain the excess liquidity.

The regular CRR would, however, continue to be at 4 per cent.

With the withdrawal of Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 bank notes beginning November 9, there has been a surge in deposits leading to large excess liquidity in the system.

The RBI also observed that the magnitude of surplus liquidity available with banks is expected to increase further in the fortnights ahead.

The central bank has separately revived the guarantee scheme to enable the deposit of Rs 500/1,000 balances at the RBI or at currency chests and get immediate value.

The notes will remain in the vaults of the Reserve Bank, under lock and key of the depositing banks till taken up for examination.

Paul wrote:When I opened my PO account in 2015 they did not ask for my PAN card but look for Adhar card. Now they are asking for PAN card for anyone who wants to open their account in the Post office. Further more last I checked interest rates for FDs opened in PO are not reported to Income tax department.

If someone has deposited old currency in the PO please do relate your experiences there. TIA!

RajeshG wrote:Shaurya couple of good posts.

I think people are making wrong assumption that dollars in circulation will remain constant. I am sure people like dawood can pump in as many dollars as there is demand

RajeshG wrote:Shaurya couple of good posts.

I think people are making wrong assumption that dollars in circulation will remain constant. I am sure people like dawood can pump in as many dollars as there is demand

Suraj wrote:

ShauryaT wrote:A wrong assessment IMO. First, on the ground the BM conversion to foreign currency has increased since Nov 8.

Tell us, after Nov. 8, what is 'black money' ? After that you can explain how it gets converted to foreign currency.

hanumadu wrote:There is a video of a congress leader getting thrashed by public for opposing demonetisation. Not sure if it is true.

https://twitter.com/YesIamSaffron/statu ... 9574222848

Yagnasri wrote:Normally in passport verification, they will not take any money even in Bangalore also. I have not given a single paise to the police, and they have not asked. I guess they also know whom to ask and whom not to ask.

We are on right track. All the international MSM saying that it is bad.

Suraj wrote: Why don't you just let 'this guy' speak for himself by joining here ? What you're saying makes no sense at all. You're claiming that RBI generates unlimited liability upon itself, i.e. every last currency note ever printed remains a liability on its books. Sorry, that's not how it works. Your friend's wrong. If he can't join here, please go tell him that. No need to do this whole 'but he says'...

Suraj wrote: Once he's awake from his long coma, IT man will ask him, "sir, now that you're feeling ok, tell us about this huge stash of notes you have. Please show us all your prior IT records. No rush. Please don't go into coma again from the shock of having to cough up all this information."

GoI will be happy to take its 60% tax/penalty (or whatever the new amendment to the IT Act enables them to extract) and let him keep the rest. That 60% is revenue to the government.

Your example does nothing to change the original argument. Anyone who comes forward with cash pays a penalty on unaccounted for wealth. Doesn't matter if he was in coma/kidnapped/whatever...

Two-time PM, FM, RBI Governor, Economics from Cambridge - Manmohan Singh's legacy.

ShauryaT wrote: It is being done is a fact for me and I have no reason to question and that is where the matter rests. How they are doing it and its modus operandi is also clear to me. You can ask people you trust or know. It entails all the risks that Suraj lists. I will end this part here.

jamwal wrote:In order to buy or sell foreign currency from currency exchange outlets (at least in big cities), you have to provide an identity proof, just like banks are doing. I don't know what kind of genius came up with the idea of converting black in to white this way. You can exchange a few lakhs, maybe 20-25 lakh at best if you are very very clever this way. Even then, dollars can't be spent inside India. They have to exchanged again for valid Indian currency or deposited to be of any use here. Hawala transfer is a different matter though.

There is hardly any foreign or local currency in this market and most such places are not doing any business for days now. Even I am stuck with a small amount of foreign currency. Can't find enough time to visit a bank or exchanger to deposit or exchange it.

Most of the foreigners are paying by cards and that's what they prefer anyway for majority of their spending in hotels, restaurants and bulk of shopping. It's the low level independent tour guides, touts, and small trinket sellers who are taking a hit.

parashara wrote:

Suraj wrote: Why don't you just let 'this guy' speak for himself by joining here ? What you're saying makes no sense at all. You're claiming that RBI generates unlimited liability upon itself, i.e. every last currency note ever printed remains a liability on its books. Sorry, that's not how it works. Your friend's wrong. If he can't join here, please go tell him that. No need to do this whole 'but he says'...

I'll just ignore the innuendo above.

Suraj wrote: Once he's awake from his long coma, IT man will ask him, "sir, now that you're feeling ok, tell us about this huge stash of notes you have. Please show us all your prior IT records. No rush. Please don't go into coma again from the shock of having to cough up all this information."

GoI will be happy to take its 60% tax/penalty (or whatever the new amendment to the IT Act enables them to extract) and let him keep the rest. That 60% is revenue to the government.

Your example does nothing to change the original argument. Anyone who comes forward with cash pays a penalty on unaccounted for wealth. Doesn't matter if he was in coma/kidnapped/whatever...

Dude - you haven't even understood the question here. The issue has nothing to do with the tax man. The guy who wakes up from a coma may have a tiny stash of a hundred 1000 rupee notes. No tax deduction required. But the burning question is if the RBI will give him fifty of the new 2000 rupee notes in exchange for his pile or not. If the RBI has already xfer'red that 1L to the govt, they can't, correct?

Here is an article which implies that D Subbarao, the ex-governor of the RBI has the same uncertainty bugging him.
http://www.firstpost.com/india/demoneti ... 12516.html

You can offer an opinion without getting all aggravated.

Actually since you are forum moderator - you should be setting an example in this regard, no?