Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Apr 2014 05:31

SaiK: Mutations are indeed 0-1 switches. You need a large number of bits to flip for the changes to be apparent at the macro level. Some genetic mutations are harmless as there is a lot of junk bits in DNA/Proteins. So the changes will accumulate and the fittest will survive. The question is whether that would be people with meat heavy diets or people with veg heavy diets. There could be speciation after a few centuries of millenniums and one species dies out. Other possibility is homo sapien will adopt a proper mixture of meat and veggies diet and avoid speciation.

Ditch scientists are growing meat in a vat. I can agree with that as long as the side effects - both at a personal level and ecological level - are no worse than veggie heavy diets.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 08 Apr 2014 05:33

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... Tw.twitter

Naveen may slip in his toughest fight, BJP gains on Modi name

Seeking power for the fourth time in Orissa, Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik faces one of the toughest elections of his career. As 10 of the 21 Lok Sabha seats and 70 of the 147 assembly seats in the state go to polls on April 10 — and the rest on April 17 — the BJP, riding on Narendra Modi’s popularity, is on the upswing in western Orissa.
Anti-incumbency, and the fact that Pyari Mohan Mohapatra is no longer with him, has made Naveen’s task tougher.
BJD insiders estimate they will be lucky to win 85-90 seats in the assembly, far fewer than the 120-plus projected until a couple of months ago, and fewer than even the 103 the party won last time. Holding on to the 14 Lok Sabha seats may prove difficult too.
State BJP president K V Singhdeo is confident of doing far better than in 2009, when the party won six assembly seats and was blanked in the Lok Sabha polls. The Congress won 6 seats in Lok Sabha and 27 in the assembly. It may lose its main opposition status to the BJP in the assembly this time.

“Naveen Patnaik perhaps thinks he has kept us happy by giving rice at Re 1 per kg. But there is nothing beyond that for me. I have two acres of land, but there is no irrigation. I work as a labourer in other people’s fields. The voltage is so low that our children study by a kerosene lantern,” Sahoo said.
.
“I have heard of Modi. I think the BJP will win the Lok Sabha polls,” he added. Sahoo voted BJD in 2009.
The subsidised rice scheme for BPL cardholders announced before the 2009 polls — starting at Rs 2/kg, revised to Re 1/kg in February 2013 — helped BJD sweep the assembly and Lok Sabha polls that year. But it no longer satisfies people.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Apr 2014 05:34

Prem Kumar wrote:Admins/Mods: pardon the inconvenience. I will repeatedly post this because people might miss this post due to the fast moving thread. I will also cross post it in the Call-a-thon thread

No apology needed. It's fine to repost regularly.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 08 Apr 2014 05:42

I am having this discussion on Twitter regarding BJP manifesto item of providing asylum to persecuted Hindus anywhere. How exactly do we sell this issue to people who are conditioned to do all religions equal-equal?

Some tweets:
What is the best & politically correct reply to - "How can you call for deporting illegal BD Muslims but ask for asylum to BD/Pak Hindus"?
2. If we say because Hindu's are persecuted over there, "What about Muslims" persecuted ( eg. rohingya?)" - How will you reply?

1. @unknowncorner It can not be answered satisfactorily with out explicitly stating priority/primacy of Indic faiths. @sarkar_swati
2. @unknowncorner Is there any other politically correct answer? That is what I am trying to explore on my TL @sarkar_swati

@amz360 What if Shia is persecuted in Pak and wants asylum in India? Or baloch? What is the answer? Why only Pak Hindus?

@Vamsee9002 rohingya's being muslims, ownership lies with 2 muslim nations
@tataiermail In other words India discriminates between Indic & Abrahamic faiths. Does this fly in Nehruvian India? Is India Hindu nation?

@Vamsee9002 @unknowncorner @sarkar_swati YES!! Asylum is a privilege and not a right. The government of the day is free to choose claimants.
@notramcguha But what "logic" do you sell to India? Do you explicitly say that we differentiate between Indic & Abrahamic religions ? @unknowncorner @sarkar_swati

1.@notramcguha I am not asking to satisfy myself

I am asking how this policy can be effectively "sold" in "secular" India which treats Indic & non-Indic religions equally

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2014 05:43

^ Be assertive & UN-apologetic. People will come around.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 08 Apr 2014 05:47

^^Simple speaking, India can be a repositary and spiritual home (maybe, even a legal home) to the adherents of all faiths that originated in India - would include the Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains peacefully. Tibetian status would get formalized. Pak and BD hindus and chakma buddhists can get asylum easily.

Heck, would be great fun if a large section of Nepalese decide to apply for Indian citizenship on that basis while still staying in Nepal....

BTW, there is historical precedent in keeping muslims out. After partition, muslims originating in Pak (East or West) were legally barred from claiming Indian citizenship.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 08 Apr 2014 05:50

Provide historical perspective about partition of India and SUBSEQUENT destruction of Indic faiths.

Inform that the Bangladesh genocide was primarily against Hindus of BD; most know of Pak.

In some way it is the unfinished business of partition from the E & W Pakistan side.

Dharmics are generous in not to return the favor; but it does not mean that we let Dharmics die.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Apr 2014 05:53

RamaY ji is the first volunteer for calling India - he will call Gult-land!

Others?

To ease into this, start calling friends, relatives, former classmates, ex-flames etc etc. Once you put together a list, you will be surprised how big a contact list you have. You may have inhibitions about contacting someone you havent spoken to in years. Screw that! You are not doing this for yourself, but for Bharat Mata & Modi.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2014 05:54

^^^

Tell those teeterati that if India gives Asylum to Muslims (Shia, Ahmedi, Balochi, Talibani you name it) it would mean India is undermining TNT and intervening in Islamic religious affairs, which is not secular. That would lead to K.TNT (nukes) flashpoint.

Inviting other Hindus on the other hand allows Pakistan to achieve higher purity and may finally achieve its dream of true Islamic nation.

Be modified Yaar!

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Apr 2014 05:54

There's a far more simple answer: religiously persecuted Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains consider India as the land of their faith. Muslims and Christians have a choice of dozens of nations willing to accept them, and India has no extraordinary stake in their religious welfare.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2014 05:56

Prem Kumar wrote:RamaY ji is the first volunteer for calling India - he will call Gult-land!.

Send any Gult-land numbers you have. SHQ gave permission for me because time for India to have its own Putin.

My magic carpet is r a m a y dot b r f at gugulmama

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 08 Apr 2014 06:05

Just to clarify. I am the one who is playing Devils advocate. The entire issue started because BJP spokesperson was unable to effectively answer this point on TV. I am exploring what is the best answer to give. How to swing majority of Indian people to your point of view? Is there any answer other than explicitly stating that we differentiate between Indic vs Non-Indic?

some other tweets from me
==================

1. Just to clarify, I firmly support BJP position on giving asylum to persecuted Indic people anywhere in the world. I want to drive home
2. The point that it can not be done with out junking the "Idea of India" as propounded by "Nehruvian establishment". In other words
3. those who are scared that "Idea of India" is in grave threat with arrival of Modi are not scare-mongering. The Nehruvian Idea of India is
4. under grave threat. END

===========

Added later
The consensus on my TL is who cares about sec-soc-libs. Just ask Muslims to go to Muslim countries and only accept Indic people. But can a main stream party say it explicitly with out everyone crying bloody murder?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2014 06:08

^ Looks like I need to troll you now on teeter too?

Juskiddin!

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 08 Apr 2014 06:08

Vamsee wrote:What is the best & politically correct reply to - "How can you call for deporting illegal BD Muslims but ask for asylum to BD/Pak Hindus"?

We did give asylum to genuine war refugees from BD in 1971. But apart from that, the historical purpose of partition - demanded by those Muslims themselves - means that they cannot further seek immigration into India, while their non-Muslim minorities can.

More importantly, several Bangladeshi intellectuals have spoken on record of the idea of expanding their "lebensraum" into India, especially India's NE. Given this intention, we are entirely justified in assuming that there is a conscious effort to push Muslim migrants into India as a means of demographic warfare.

Vamsee wrote:2. If we say because Hindu's are persecuted over there, "What about Muslims" persecuted ( eg. rohingya?)" - How will you reply?

We have already given asylum to the Rohingya - even though Bangladesh itself mostly refused them asylum! This is absurd since the origin of the Rohingya is Bangladeshi. Therefore, reason demands that India first exercise pressure on Islamic states like BD to absorb Muslim refugees, rather than be cuckolded into carrying their babies.

From Pak - their Shi'as need to seek asylum in Iran, just like many Afghan Shi'a did. Their Shi'a played a very active role in the partition, and therefore they cannot turn around and demand re-entry. India is not a dharamshala or guesthouse where anyone can walk in and walk out whenever they please. Building social and cultural capital is a fundamental part of nation-building. Therefore, that must be factored into refugee policy. However, we can and will help the Pakistani Shi'a, Ahmadis, and other persecuted minorities to carve out a safe haven within the territory of Pakistan itself, perhaps as a separate breakaway state.

Vamsee wrote:1. @unknowncorner It can not be answered satisfactorily with out explicitly stating priority/primacy of Indic faiths. @sarkar_swati

Not true. See above. It can simply be explained in terms of building social and cultural capital, which is standard theory in sociology and political economy.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 08 Apr 2014 06:13

BJP spokespersons get 4-5 sentences to say in the MSM debate. What should those sentences be?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2014 06:22

^ if I were BJP candidate I would say

"Our heart goes to all victims of religious oppression in Pakistan. Our first preference is Pakistan respects all religions & gives protection to all its citizens. Having said that us giving asylum to any Muslim sect will be seen as India interfering in Pakistan's internal affairs because after all said and done Pakistan is created for all sub-continental Muslims. So we are doing our little by supporting the minorities belonging to Indic faith systems because they have no other place to go. We will work with other Christian and Islamic nations to help other Pakistanis."

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Apr 2014 06:36

math guru..agree the switch itself is two state logic but to create the switch tirgger would take ears of abuse on the gene one may have.. normally, we humans have some level tolerance (some may be way too strong, and some maybe on the borderline).. on the average case if we consider, the switch might happen after going thru some N events, and if you consider each of those N events as states, then one could potentially say N states to switch is a possibility.

llly N=272 states to get BJP a majority switch to do modi sarkaar!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Apr 2014 06:38

Hari Seldon wrote: Heck, would be great fun if a large section of Nepalese decide to apply for Indian citizenship on that basis while still staying in Nepal....

Your earlier post kind of inspired me in thinking, if India offered dual citizenship automatically to all Nepalese - if they chose to apply. I am sure there will be loopholes to be abused. But the impact would be enormous no? Akhand Bharat? Add Bhutan to the mixture, then India is talking.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Apr 2014 06:41

giving dual citizen vote power is missing in the manifesto!

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 08 Apr 2014 06:53

SwamyG wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote: Heck, would be great fun if a large section of Nepalese decide to apply for Indian citizenship on that basis while still staying in Nepal....
Your earlier post kind of inspired me in thinking, if India offered dual citizenship automatically to all Nepalese - if they chose to apply. I am sure there will be loopholes to be abused. But the impact would be enormous no? Akhand Bharat? Add Bhutan to the mixture, then India is talking.

About 1 lakh Pakis have settled in Nepal over the last 15 years. That infestation has to be removed along with any "amalgamation" step if it happens.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 08 Apr 2014 06:54

I think we are getting too far ahead of ourselves. There is an election to be won first.

Even if only a half of the ideas in the manifesto are implemented in the first 5 years, it will make a visible change in India.

The manifesto shows the direction. May the journey in that direction be started on May 17th. The milestones of achievement will surely come, once the journey is started.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 08 Apr 2014 06:57

viv wrote:
nope! I and many know the truth of what happened but there is a form of discourse in the country that in Bharat/India in the current times. It is silly to use terms of namard, or suggest reconversion and generally form a 'they' against a large section of fellow citizens. One can object to subsidies or reservations without resorting to such rhetoric,

So you are implying it is wrong for hindus to reconvert muslims back to hindusim?? or are you saying it wrong for hindus to reconvert muslims through emoluments??

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 08 Apr 2014 07:03

How does the below sound?

The partition of India, accepted by Congress Party and Muslim league, has given equal rights and protections to minorities in India. There may be short comings but India always strived to do justice to its minorities. On the other hand those Hindus who unfortunately found themselves on the other side of the border never received equal treatment and there population as a % of their countries is decimated. So we give preference to those to correct the historical injustice done to them.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 08 Apr 2014 07:06

RamaY garu,

Please tweet it & I will RT

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 08 Apr 2014 07:14

Sonia Singh is wife of INC minister RPN Singh. Maybe campaigning for hubby dearest.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Apr 2014 07:22

Guys take the non-Modi discussions to the OT, before admins start knocking on your doors.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Apr 2014 07:33

Arun Jeitly had said something about it in interview with BDutt on NDTV i.e. after partition if Hindus are oppressed by anyone in the Indian subcontinent then where can Hindus go.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 08 Apr 2014 08:08

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 08 Apr 2014 08:16

Major terrorist attack on Modi in Varanasi foiled. DDM is boycotting the news. Link is from a Gujarati channel.

modi foiled in

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Apr 2014 08:28

All: one more update. We have a list of 500 numbers to call in Chandigarh. Kirron Kher (wife of Anupam Kher) is the BJP candidate, standing against AAP's Gul Panang

Paging anyone from the Punjab/Chandigarh region, who can help with the calling efforts

YamaR: I have reached out to the AP coordinators. Once I have more info, I will pass it along. One fantastic resource that we also use is JustDial. The site is great - you can select India as country & any City in India. Search for sweet shops or any other category of business where the persons concerned would interact with a lot of people daily. Phone numbers are in the website.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 08 Apr 2014 08:33

Regarding the "persecuted Hindus" issue, no other country will offer them refuge so we have to do the needful. The situation is similar to the Right of Return for persecuted Jews to Israel even though Israel is a secular country. Just do piggyback marketing and say "we are like that onlee". There should be no confusion here and certainly no need to go overboard to explain or justify it to folks who don't get it.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 08 Apr 2014 08:36

Prem Kumar wrote:All: one more update. We have a list of 500 numbers to call in Chandigarh. Kirron Kher (daughter of Anupam Kher) is the BJP candidate, standing against AAP's Gul Panang

Paging anyone from the Punjab/Chandigarh region, who can help with the calling efforts

YamaR: I have reached out to the AP coordinators. Once I have more info, I will pass it along. One fantastic resource that we also use is JustDial. The site is great - you can select India as country & any City in India. Search for sweet shops or any other category of business where the persons concerned would interact with a lot of people daily. Phone numbers are in the website.

WIFE of Anupam Kher.

I wonder whether you will end up doing more damage than good.

Because, I won't trust a party whose volunteers (paid or otherwise) can't even get basic personal details of the candidate correctly they are canvassing. And even if I'm sympathetic I will not take such calls seriously.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Apr 2014 08:37

ok a little bit from me. Reading Modi, Muslim and Media by Madhu Kishwar. I would suggest everyone to read it. Once you start reading, you may not stop till the end. I am at ch-10.
NaMo comes out as a Genuine reformer with principle of Samrasta and not the Muslim Baiter that is portrayed. His agenda is inclusive growth , according to the book, and has achieved wonders. Most of my feedback from Gujarat is validated. He does not claim that administration does not need reform and that it is free from corruption. He strives to make it so. Some anecdots are very emotional and moving. Reflects true empathy with the poor.

He reflects what is quintessentially Bharat. Most of the people here are convinced that he is the Man of the Hour. I think after reading this book , except "conflict entrepreneurs", rabid NaMo haters and utter ignorant would only stay unchanged.

He inspires.

For those who are on the fence

Amul Ka Ghee aur Mishti Dahi
Abki bar Modi hi Sahi.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Apr 2014 08:42

SRoy: Sorry, corrected.

Interesting comment from you though. So, a mistake in a forum soliciting for help, will make you suspect the BJP? Even if worst case, a mistake is made when calling a person & we get rapped on the knuckles, one can course-correct and not repeat it in the next 100 calls made. Campaigning is not perfect

Btw, I am not paid & neither are the 600 odd people working on this in my city. We volunteer our time & money. I have a day job

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 08 Apr 2014 08:47

^^

It will make one suspect the caller for sure.

The job you are doing is stupendous. Why commit silly mistakes to appear as an uninformed busy body? Chandigarh being an urban constituency, such slip ups will get noticed.

So, take care. All the best. And thanks for the good work.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 08 Apr 2014 08:48

viv wrote:^^really! is this the discourse you want to have?

YES

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Apr 2014 08:51

SRoy: that's why we have BRF na, where silly mistakes are snipped out

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Apr 2014 09:01

For funsi sake...

I want Modi to make Brahmos range 299.9 miles.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 08 Apr 2014 09:06

^^

More than that I'd wish that the phoren maal loving brown sahibs in uniform get hanged by their b@@!!s

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 08 Apr 2014 09:11

^^SRoy, at the risk of going OT, what maal other than phoren can the forces use? And do you think folks lik VK Singh are brown sahibs?