Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Jul 2011 14:48

Prithvi should be in its mid life. It has already gone a midlife under Project Bhishma (?). If we can shift the older ones away from paki border to Chinese border, it can be used in saturation strikes. Chinese, IMHO, will again try human waves. WRT Paki border, we need precision strikes, fast and furious. Brahmos, Shaurya can be devasting. Brahmo's 290 kms gives it the dominance to strike Pakis in speeds needed for a short and fast. For example nuke installations, transporters etc.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 11 Jul 2011 19:56

chackojoseph wrote:Chinese, IMHO, will again try human waves.

OT, but this gross stereotyping of the Chinese threat is a distressing and alarming trend in Indian defense analysis.

First off, the Chinese rarely used human wave tactics even in the 1962 India-China battles. The human wave is a very specific type of attack the PLA used in the Korean War against the much better equipped US and UN forces, and they used it out of desperation. In the 1962 war, the Chinese extensively used infiltration, envelopment and local force-saturation tactics. Simply put, Indian generals in Kargil could have learnt a lesson or two from the Chinese of 1962 (ironically Chinese themselves seemed to have forgotten these lessons in 1979).

Secondly, the Chinese are highly unlikely to try something as mindless as human wave attacks today. The current generation of youth have all been subjected to the One Child Policy (unless you were Tibetan or Muslim or subsistence farmer). Remember there are four grandparents and two parents placing their hopes on one son, and there are millions of such families today. They will accept loss of a child if it is for the defense of the nation, but they won't accept commanders casually throwing their children's lives in half-baked foreign adventures. The Chinese commanders and planners KNOW that. That is why are spending enormous amounts of money in training men in modern tactics. And that is why they prefer to have "useful idiots" like Pakistanis and NoKos do the fighting and dying.

Give the Chinese their due.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Jul 2011 20:07

Even Gen Kaul said that the Chinese did not use human wave tactics but they out gunned (we using the first world war vintage .303s they were using the then latest weapons) and out manned.

OT but in today's China there are no more uncles and aunts!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Jul 2011 21:09

I am certain that the Chinese will not use human waves now. But theye are reported to have used human waves in 1962. I think it was mentioned in Neville Maxwells book - but anyway unkal Googal has a ref

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 84/CJB.htm

The Indian soldiers would report that the Chinese burp gun and human wave
assaults were "demoralizing."

and

Apparently, Indian intelligence was also lacking. Their
lack of preparedness for warfare in the Himalayas would indi-
cate a very poor concept of the topography and weather in the
area, resulting in very poor mobility across the mountains.
Indian intelligence and reconnaissence seemed ignorant of
Chinese strength, mobility and tactics, especially night move-
ments and human wave attacks which the Indians called the "Red
Ant Swarm."

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Jul 2011 21:10

Maj gen E'Dsouza had specifically said they used the human waves. Another old soldier (I can't recollect name, but, I met him long time back), "there were 3 - 5 chinese running and only one had a gun. One fell, the other picked it up and came forward."

IMO, it will be Chinese human wave, in whatever the modern adaptation it will be.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Jul 2011 21:12

From the Indian army site

http://indianarmy.nic.in/Site/FormTempl ... dg=&flag=p

Battle of Walong - 1962

To reclaim the lost ground, the Chinese counter attacked with greater ferocity. They pressed their assault with human wave after wave. The Kumaonis stuck to their ground till the last man and the last round and caused heavy losses to the enemy. Finally, the Chinese succeeded, as there was no able bodied Kumaoni left.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Jul 2011 21:20

Just to add a word on the "stereotyping" comment.

I have been a china watcher for a long time. Even though, I have not written much about it Except, the String of pearls and Chinese fishing trawler diplomacy or may be another.

However, In my opinion, there are going to be wave pattern.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 11 Jul 2011 21:38

chackojoseph wrote:Just to add a word on the "stereotyping" comment.

I have been a china watcher for a long time. Even though, I have not written much about it Except, the String of pearls and Chinese fishing trawler diplomacy or may be another.

However, In my opinion, there are going to be wave pattern.

The chinese did use human waves. And if we aren't prepared for this tactic then someone will get blamed and we will pounce on them.

What our troops will need are mobile weapons of mass destruction! Not nuclear!

Even bayonets!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jul 2011 21:41

human wave tactics can be countered by overlapping kill zones, falling back in depth
and interdiction using artillery and air power to break up the forming areas
ofcourse that implies a lot of real time intel.
i am not convinced that the chinese are still into human waves, they have a lot of firepower at their disposal now

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Jul 2011 21:53

Lalmohan wrote: i am not convinced that the chinese are still into human waves, they have a lot of firepower at their disposal now

Exactly. The chipanda human wave tactics were employed by them when the average chipanda soldier was poorly equipped and had limited firepower at his disposal. This is not true anymore.
Even in 1962, the chinese soldiers were better equipped than ours. They may have used human wave assaults in some cases where a huge numerical superiority was essential, but they are unlikely to do something like that now.
As for us, stacking up on artillery will be the key to repulsing any chipanda assault in the north or northeast. As expected we are doing that our usual snail-like pace.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Jul 2011 21:57

A lot of media management by chinese has got into dhoti shivring on the quality and improvement of Chinese equipment.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jul 2011 22:08

dhoti not shivering, but pays to be vigilant

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Jul 2011 22:10

chackojoseph wrote:A lot of media management by chinese has got into dhoti shivring on the quality and improvement of Chinese equipment.

If there had been a little more dhoti-shivering in the 50s, we might have been better prepared in 62.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 11 Jul 2011 22:15

nachiket wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:A lot of media management by chinese has got into dhoti shivring on the quality and improvement of Chinese equipment.
If there had been a little more dhoti-shivering in the 50s, we might have been better prepared in 62.

There was actually. People ran without ever seeing a chinese soldier.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Jul 2011 23:19

Let the bumkum of Chinese/PLA being bereft of firepower in 1962 be laid to rest. Chinese were very elaborate in their preparation and ensured that they had both numerical and forepower advantage. And while they did use inflitration to outflank IA positions, they ensured that they had the manpower and firepower advantage.

See this link for orbat of PLA in 1962: http://orbat.com/site/history/historica ... a1962.html

As a reminder - regiment in case of PLA is equivalent to a Brigade in our case.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Jul 2011 23:30

ParGha wrote:<SNIP> In the 1962 war, the Chinese extensively used infiltration, envelopment and local force-saturation tactics. Simply put, Indian generals in Kargil could have learnt a lesson or two from the Chinese of 1962 (ironically Chinese themselves seemed to have forgotten these lessons in 1979).

<SNIP>

And that is another gross generalization with respect to Kargil.

Any inflitration to bye-pass and isolate the PA posts on ridges could have very well meant crossing over to other side of LoC.Though, with PA controlling the heights, limited axises of advance (nullahs/valley) and inter-locking arc of fire courtsey the PA posts on ridges, I don't know how successful this aspect could have been. Also, with geography being limiting factor (lack of real estate. limited axises of assaults), how could we have saturated the assaults is beyond me.

What the PLA did in 1962 was to overwhelm the IA by inflitration through routes which we did not know existed or failed to appreciate the importance of. They had no limitation in terms of maintaining the sanctity of LoC or anything of that sort. And I've already commented on the favorable ratios they maintained in every aspect.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 11 Jul 2011 23:39

rohitvats wrote:They had no limitation in terms of maintaining the sanctity of LoC or anything of that sort.

It is the above restriction, which remains a valid critique for Kargil. We restricted ourselves, when we should have used this clear opportunity to accomplish some key goals in the region. It should be another study on what these key goals could have been and did we have the capacity to execute them. One such goal could have been an assault on Skardu, which was the main base for the Kargil offensive.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 12 Jul 2011 00:16

rohitvats wrote:And that is another gross generalization with respect to Kargil. Any inflitration to bye-pass and isolate the PA posts on ridges could have very well meant crossing over to other side of LoC. ... What the PLA did in 1962 was to overwhelm the IA by inflitration through routes which we did not know existed or failed to appreciate the importance of. They had no limitation in terms of maintaining the sanctity of LoC or anything of that sort. And I've already commented on the favorable ratios they maintained in every aspect.

The Chinese first started loudly grumbling about Indian forward posts on Askai Chin, overlooking their Tibet-Siankiang highway, in 1959. For three years they prepositioned war-stocks, moved essential supplies through off-road routes in the high Himalayas, acclimatized their troops, and even built POW camps. Then, snap!

This is what I meant by Indian generals learning a thing or two from the Chinese. Infiltration and assault tactics are captains and majors' game, and Indian YOs did what they could in the constraints they were working in. It is the job of the generals to open up those constraints, not impose them. FWIW, they do seem to have woken up to the possibilities since 1999 -- so there is hope.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Jul 2011 01:17

ParGha wrote: The Chinese first started loudly grumbling about Indian forward posts on Askai Chin, overlooking their Tibet-Siankiang highway, in 1959. For three years they prepositioned war-stocks, moved essential supplies through off-road routes in the high Himalayas, acclimatized their troops, and even built POW camps. Then, snap!

But we were reacting during Kargil and we had hardly any time. So how do thes things you have mentioned help us during Kargil?

As for the constraints, the over-arching constraint was not crossing the LOC and that came as an order straight from the PMO. What were the Generals going to do about it?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jul 2011 09:52

rohitvats wrote:Let the bumkum of Chinese/PLA being bereft of firepower in 1962 be laid to rest. Chinese were very elaborate in their preparation and ensured that they had both numerical and forepower advantage. And while they did use inflitration to outflank IA positions, they ensured that they had the manpower and firepower advantage.

See this link for orbat of PLA in 1962: http://orbat.com/site/history/historica ... a1962.html

As a reminder - regiment in case of PLA is equivalent to a Brigade in our case.

Agree with Rohit, they had prepared well for this attack on Desh in 1962, they had built up a huge human force, well armed, motivated and supplied, ably supported by artillery etc.
Any Chinese Attack of the future will be in waves (after wave after wave), no doubt. A human wave is one of the waves, there would be waves of Ballistic Missiles, a waves of cruise missiles, LR Rockets, LR Artillery, Bombers and heavily armed infantry... this is not a Dothi Shiver but a clarion call to understand the capabilities of Chinese. There is no profit in denigrating a Chinese threat as a human wave attack and pooh pooing it with we will use a kill box, overlapping fire etc... remember Swami Vivekananda's saying ARISE.. AWAKE..

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jul 2011 10:01

ShauryaT wrote:
rohitvats wrote:They had no limitation in terms of maintaining the sanctity of LoC or anything of that sort.
It is the above restriction, which remains a valid critique for Kargil. We restricted ourselves, when we should have used this clear opportunity to accomplish some key goals in the region. It should be another study on what these key goals could have been and did we have the capacity to execute them. One such goal could have been an assault on Skardu, which was the main base for the Kargil offensive.

I think the Desh won the media and diplomatic war during Kargil mainly due to this hamstring approach. the key goal of IA or our political leaders was TO VACATE THE INTRUDERS and NOT to capture territory in POK. Desh did not expand the AOR beyond Kargil and tomtomd it at every available opportunity. This was India's first war on television and India performed brilliantly on TV, our brave soldiers did an exemplary task in recapturing the peaks amidst major sacrifices. Regarding your idea of assault in Skardu... these escalations was exactly what Pakees wanted but India denied these to them. Pakis spread their forces thin all along the IB with India preparing to repulse an attack which never came. regarding supply base, it is well documented about how our LR artillery or M2Ks with LGBs destroyed a major supply depot inside POK. This was stated as one of the reasons for the end to hostilities.

Also Indian arty and planes regularly targetted Paki supply lines ACROSS the LOC!!!

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jul 2011 10:06

We are going OT with discussion Chinese aggression of 1962, let us move this discussion to the China Dhaga and let this only before Puke discussions... Kargil is Passe but not PRC waves etc.
BRAdmins please take care of moving these posts over.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 13 Jul 2011 10:14

Shrinivasan wrote:Agree with Rohit, they had prepared well for this attack on Desh in 1962, they had built up a huge human force, well armed, motivated and supplied, ably supported by artillery etc.
Any Chinese Attack of the future will be in waves (after wave after wave), no doubt. A human wave is one of the waves, there would be waves of Ballistic Missiles, a waves of cruise missiles, LR Rockets, LR Artillery, Bombers and heavily armed infantry... this is not a Dothi Shiver but a clarion call to understand the capabilities of Chinese. There is no profit in denigrating a Chinese threat as a human wave attack and pooh pooing it with we will use a kill box, overlapping fire etc... remember Swami Vivekananda's saying ARISE.. AWAKE..

I will give you an anology. When one had to lie for coming late in past, they used to say "honey I went to my friends house or was at hospital or was at office."

Now, with mobiles "Honey, I am/was at friends house, hospital or office."

Now, did new technology change the lies?

A tactics is a tactics. You cannot change it drastically. It's a fact of life.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 13 Jul 2011 11:56

chackojoseph wrote:Prithvi should be in its mid life. It has already gone a midlife under Project Bhishma (?). Brahmo's 290 kms gives it the dominance to strike Pakis in speeds needed for a short and fast. For example nuke installations, transporters etc.

CJ, what is this Project Bhishma? Never heard of it till now. Is brahmas paki specific? I thought the block III mountain strike version was also for the NE?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 13 Jul 2011 14:45

Shrinivasan wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:Prithvi should be in its mid life. It has already gone a midlife under Project Bhishma (?). Brahmo's 290 kms gives it the dominance to strike Pakis in speeds needed for a short and fast. For example nuke installations, transporters etc.
CJ, what is this Project Bhishma? Never heard of it till now. Is brahmas paki specific? I thought the block III mountain strike version was also for the NE?

AFIK, its a Prithvi MLU / Upgrades / Part replacement project.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Jul 2011 19:06

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasr_%28missile%29
so.. prahaar should reveal more of the bluffs.. and show up the trails leading to chinese supplies to tactical weapons. now, we should increase on the technology to sniff and track these sales and supplies.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 16 Jul 2011 00:20

SaiK wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasr_%28missile%29
so.. prahaar should reveal more of the bluffs..

Why do the Pakees insist on calling it a Ballistic missile when it is only a MBRL rocket?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jul 2011 01:10

^^^ Lahori Logic...

1 Pakistani = 10 Indians...

So…

MBRL = Missile

Using Lahori Logic, MBRL stands for Missile Barrel Rocket Launched

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 16 Jul 2011 02:42

Rakesh wrote:^^^ Lahori Logic...
1 Pakistani = 10 Indians...

Worse than Pakees having a collective 0rga$m about NASR is the dhoti shivering by DDM (and even some BRFities) about the Nuclear Armageddon which will be unleashed by this NASR... also the death of Cold Start... thanks god DDM didn't suggest the disbanding on Strike Corps..
Now DDM suggests, Prahaar is an answer to NASR, tomorrow they'll suggest Arjun is a (belated) answer to Al-Khalid dhabba. THE ONLY AREA I SEE PAKIS HAVING AN EDGE IS IN SP HOWITZERS COURTESY UNCLE.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 16 Jul 2011 02:59

Cross posting from Indian CT-COIN dhaga.

prithvi wrote:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c4_1310684156
this is what we are dealing with.... (Graphic video--Viewer discretion is advised..)

this is Paki army for sure...see the fire discipline of the guys shooting. also Taliban assembles a huge crowd for these executions, also there will be celebratory fire in the air...

In this case TSAP lined up these guys and shot them... This is what Desh should have done to the 93k soldiers in BD in 1971 or even in Kargil, afterall Pakistan claimed there were Mujahideen so we are killing Terrorists.

After killing them and recording the Video show the documents and ration books etc food from their bodies as proof that after all they were all PA regulars...

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jul 2011 15:05

Shrinivasan wrote:quote="ShauryaT"]
rohitvats wrote:They had no limitation in terms of maintaining the sanctity of LoC or anything of that sort.
It is the above restriction, which remains a valid critique for Kargil. We restricted ourselves, when we should have used this clear opportunity to accomplish some key goals in the region. It should be another study on what these key goals could have been and did we have the capacity to execute them. One such goal could have been an assault on Skardu, which was the main base for the Kargil offensive./quote]
I think the Desh won the media and diplomatic war during Kargil mainly due to this hamstring approach. the key goal of IA or our political leaders was TO VACATE THE INTRUDERS and NOT to capture territory in POK. Desh did not expand the AOR beyond Kargil and tomtomd it at every available opportunity. This was India's first war on television and India performed brilliantly on TV, our brave soldiers did an exemplary task in recapturing the peaks amidst major sacrifices. Regarding your idea of assault in Skardu... these escalations was exactly what Pakees wanted but India denied these to them. Pakis spread their forces thin all along the IB with India preparing to repulse an attack which never came. regarding supply base, it is well documented about how our LR artillery or M2Ks with LGBs destroyed a major supply depot inside POK. This was stated as one of the reasons for the end to hostilities.

Also Indian arty and planes regularly targetted Paki supply lines ACROSS the LOC!!!

I think theraid accross the LOC was done by the Humble Mig-27 with Dumb Bombs and Mig-29 top cover. Paki F-16 tried to intervene but once thier RWR's started ringing loudly backed out.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Jul 2011 16:02

Shrinivasan wrote: THE ONLY AREA I SEE PAKIS HAVING AN EDGE IS IN SP HOWITZERS COURTESY UNCLE.

actually their missiles are much shinier than ours, cos they get a lot more polishing than is normal for militaries their age...

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 17 Jul 2011 01:13

Lalmohan wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote: THE ONLY AREA I SEE PAKIS HAVING AN EDGE IS IN SP HOWITZERS COURTESY UNCLE.
actually their missiles are much shinier than ours, cos they get a lot more polishing than is normal for militaries their age...

In what way is Paki missiles better than Indian, Range? CEP? Mobility? Variety? cost?
Some information would help, let us have an objective comparison of these and other factors.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 17 Jul 2011 01:21

^^

Shrinivasan, bliss not to take Lalmullah's statement at face value.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Jul 2011 03:58

Pakistan to Exercise Options for More F-16s

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan is in the final stages of exercising an option to buy 18 more F-16 Block 52+ fighters, which would double its fleet of the Fighting Falcon's advanced variant, said Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank.

Deliveries of the 18 "Peace Drive I" planes, currently Pakistan's most capable aircraft, were completed in December under a 2006 contract. The contract, including the 18-plane option, was then valued at $3 billion.
Related Topics

A planned upgrade to F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft will bring them up to the Block 40 standard as well. They are currently being put through the Falcon STAR (Structural Augmentation Roadmap) program, and undergoing Mid-Life Update (MLU) at the hands of Turkish Aerospace Industries in Turkey.

In 2006, the value of 60 MLU kits was quoted as $1.3 billion. The upgrade was approved for 45 Block 15s, and now has been curtailed at 35 planes, Khan said.

The reason for this is uncertain.

Khan notes that U.S. Navy has refused to release 14 ex-Pakistani F-16s that were part of the "Peace Gate III/IV" order of 71 planes. These aircraft were embargoed before delivery under the Pressler Amendment in the 1990s and eventually found a home with the Navy's aggressor units.

The news of curtailment in the F-16 upgrade program comes a week after it was reported the upgraded aircraft will be equipped with the ITT Systems AN/ALQ-211 (v)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) electronic warfare pod.

The $49,097,182 firm fixed price Foreign Military Sales contract will provide systems software and support equipment 18 pods, four pod shells, two antenna coupler sets, two lab test benches, and data.

There may also be new equipment for the Pakistan Navy.

Khan said there was no news as of yet on acquiring additional pair of P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft to replace those destroyed in the May 22 terrorist attack on PNS Mehran in Karachi.

However, there was a very strong possibility another Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate would be transferred to Pakistan when it was retired from USN service later this year.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 17 Jul 2011 08:15

nachiket wrote:^^
Shrinivasan, bliss not to take Lalmullah's statement at face value.

I fell for it, thanks for the heads-up...

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 17 Jul 2011 11:41

Shrinivasan wrote:
Rakesh wrote:^^^ Lahori Logic...
1 Pakistani = 10 Indians...
Worse than Pakees having a collective 0rga$m about NASR is the dhoti shivering by DDM (and even some BRFities) about the Nuclear Armageddon which will be unleashed by this NASR... also the death of Cold Start....

As I see it's more proof of "salwar soiling" among pork army caused by Cold Start doctrine. In last few years I see term Cold Start used more by porkis then Bharat. Though I hardly understand mil matters, but this convinces me beyond doubt the potency of Cold Start and kasht + salwar browning its causing among porkis.

I suggest they start using brown color over light grey:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/.a/6a00d8 ... 970b-800wi

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Jul 2011 12:02

^^^

Why do the Pakis have the urge to counter a doctrine that is non existent for the IA. Bliss to guide me onlee......

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 17 Jul 2011 12:12

Pratyush wrote:Why do the Pakis have the urge to counter a doctrine that is non existent for the IA.

Cold Start might have been buried, but the concept lives on, has been tested and validated in exercises. I don't know if we have the Mardangi to give it a name and proclaim it to the world but it does exist.
The real strategic value of Cold Start IMHO has been to make Pakees worry about it and REACT to Indian thought process, till then it has been mostly Tail Wagging the dog...

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Jul 2011 12:45

VinodTK wrote:Pakistan to Exercise Options for More F-16s
ISLAMABAD - Pakistan is in the final stages of exercising an option to buy 18 more F-16 Block 52+ fighters, which would double its fleet of the Fighting Falcon's advanced variant, said Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank.

Deliveries of the 18 "Peace Drive I" planes, currently Pakistan's most capable aircraft, were completed in December under a 2006 contract. The contract, including the 18-plane option, was then valued at $3 billion.
Related Topics

A planned upgrade to F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft will bring them up to the Block 40 standard as well. They are currently being put through the Falcon STAR (Structural Augmentation Roadmap) program, and undergoing Mid-Life Update (MLU) at the hands of Turkish Aerospace Industries in Turkey.

In 2006, the value of 60 MLU kits was quoted as $1.3 billion. The upgrade was approved for 45 Block 15s, and now has been curtailed at 35 planes, Khan said.

The reason for this is uncertain.

Khan notes that U.S. Navy has refused to release 14 ex-Pakistani F-16s that were part of the "Peace Gate III/IV" order of 71 planes. These aircraft were embargoed before delivery under the Pressler Amendment in the 1990s and eventually found a home with the Navy's aggressor units.

The news of curtailment in the F-16 upgrade program comes a week after it was reported the upgraded aircraft will be equipped with the ITT Systems AN/ALQ-211 (v)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) electronic warfare pod.

The $49,097,182 firm fixed price Foreign Military Sales contract will provide systems software and support equipment 18 pods, four pod shells, two antenna coupler sets, two lab test benches, and data.

There may also be new equipment for the Pakistan Navy.

Khan said there was no news as of yet on acquiring additional pair of P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft to replace those destroyed in the May 22 terrorist attack on PNS Mehran in Karachi.

However, there was a very strong possibility another Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate would be transferred to Pakistan when it was retired from USN service later this year.

ANy idea what is the current strength of Paki RF-16 fleet, Nos, squadron where based. These are potent aircraft with 500 AIM-120 C7 missiles( why do Pakis need so many missiles). These represent a potent threat and need to be taken out very fast in any war scenario.