Indian Autos Thread

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Apr 2013 16:23

Yogi_G wrote:
Sriman wrote:^^
May be it's the stock tires? It's possible that its undertired to cut costs.
The quanto's tires are puny, 14" I think, purposely tired that way for more cabin space.

I think they 15" and much better than the puny 13" and 14" on other Indian cars.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 04 Apr 2013 18:12

Aditya_V wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:
The quanto's tires are puny, 14" I think, purposely tired that way for more cabin space.
I think they 15" and much better than the puny 13" and 14" on other Indian cars.

Correct Aditya ji, they are 15".

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Apr 2013 16:16

toyota livia sedan has a huge and deep boot for its size. certainly lot more volume than a civic.
pretty good choice as a airport taxi.

per honda india chief, the new model of jazz and city will come here, as will perhaps a small SUV on jazz base that was shown in detroit motor show. but for now they want to build volume using the 1.5 LTR new diesel engine and the amaze sedan. same engine could easily power the jazz, city also. and a slightly upscaled variant the civic.

the corolla diesel has apparently been a big failure in india though..not sure why.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 05 Apr 2013 17:02

Singha wrote:toyota livia sedan has a huge and deep boot for its size. certainly lot more volume than a civic.
pretty good choice as a airport taxi.

68 PS for a sedan of its size seems far too less, as you say, yes as a taxi but not a personal car where you can do 120-130 with relative ease zipping across in national highways.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Apr 2013 19:08

the BLR taxi drivers are able to push it hard as well. all it takes is the courage to floor the pedal even in adverse conditions! meru cabs has a Ramstein type "base" in a former coconut plantation near my office. some 100 cabs are always there ..most of the old logans are done and Livia is in.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 17 Apr 2013 11:46

Singha, I guess you meat Etios and not Liva as Liva is an hatchback version. Power is not a problem for etios in taxi avatar

The Etios has good handling, very reliable engine but has a very bad ride quality, high nvh, pathetic seats, lamby style speedo console apart from having an al-khalid body. Did a couple of trips from Chennai-Bangalore on Etios taxi and vouched that would never travel on it again. The driver mentioned that he bought etios based on reputation of innova but dissappointed primarily with the suspension but pretty happy on mileage and after sales service. Toyota has launched an improved version with better seats, new illumination, improved suspension, damping, new engine mounts etc. After limited sales of these for a few months, they have targetted big fleet operators (likes of meru, easy cab, Fast track) with good discounts. Surprising for a company that pulled out qualis for not wanting to be associated with a people mover

Ertiga should be considered as a sedan alternative in case you prefer two optional small seats for taking kids on occasional journeys as an option over a boot than an alternative to innova. You can take a dog by folding the rear seats down.
XUV is a excellent offering but with a lot of niggles on the electronics and braking. It may take an year for Mahindra to get it absolutely right.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 17 Apr 2013 12:00

Sridhar saar, what's your take on Figo and the Ritz? I'm inclined towards the Figo because of the driving dynamics and overall VFM but i'm hearing mixed things about Ford's service and spares.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 17 Apr 2013 13:41

the problem with indian cars is..there is a HUUUUGGEEEEE difference between base model and the top and some brands cramp two more in between. They reel you in with attractive price for base model but you are guaranteed to hate it after purchase. decision making is hard when you throw in spares prices, service center availability and care experiences, "status" issues, resale expectations due to all vehicles getting beat up in just 5 years etc.

These are extraneous issues other than the damn car itself where you have to worry about driver seat well (in Vista my left leg would be touching the central stand..I had to train myself to not do that), suspension and ground clearance becomes a life or death type decision, a/c efficiency, throw for back seats and blower noise need to be checked out twice to make sure they are below what you can tolerate.

Also, if you like to roll down windows, make sure you can rest your arm on the window - if you like doing that. Or see if there is an armrest for your left hand, so at least one hand can rest during long drives. And clutch foot rest.

These maybe important than 1 or 2 mileage points or handling (mostly you will be driving straight line at 80 to 100...)

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 17 Apr 2013 13:42

don't skimp on safety. airbags and ABS are preferred if you are doing highway. the lunatics on road are just multiplying.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 17 Apr 2013 14:05

Gus wrote:don't skimp on safety. airbags and ABS are preferred if you are doing highway. the lunatics on road are just multiplying.

Yeah, absolutely. And i wouldn't write off handling completely either. I drive a Wagon R currently and that car doesn't inspire confidence on the highway when fully loaded due to lack of power and handling. I don't speed, but i need a car with decent power and handling that can react when idiots drive rashly next to you. I'm not a huge fan of tallboys.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Apr 2013 15:58

Sriman wrote:
Gus wrote:don't skimp on safety. airbags and ABS are preferred if you are doing highway. the lunatics on road are just multiplying.
Yeah, absolutely. And i wouldn't write off handling completely either. I drive a Wagon R currently and that car doesn't inspire confidence on the highway when fully loaded due to lack of power and handling. I don't speed, but i need a car with decent power and handling that can react when idiots drive rashly next to you. I'm not a huge fan of tallboys.

Buy Ritz VXi with ABS...you will absolutely love it. That engine is a rocker; the same one as on Swift but a tad less responsive.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 17 Apr 2013 16:31

If you expect it to be loaded heavily for many trips, please look for something with harder suspension so it does not bottom out and scrapes at all breakers. I have a problem when my inlaws (both heavy set folks..100kg plus) are in the back. After scraping twice even at dead slow speeds, I had to resort to driving diagonally at breakers so one wheel is on top of the breaker at all times and the chassis does not scrape.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Apr 2013 00:08

Aditya_V wrote:
Yogi_G wrote: The quanto's tires are puny, 14" I think, purposely tired that way for more cabin space.
I think they 15" and much better than the puny 13" and 14" on other Indian cars.

What you guys are talking about is the wheel size, not tire size. 15" wheels means that the internal diameter of the tire will be 15". It says nothing about the outer diameter. For that we need the specs of the tires used. An SUV with 15" wheels will have much larger overall tire size than a sedan with 15" wheels, since the sidewalls of the tires will be taller.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Apr 2013 08:05

How is the honda amaze diesel? A mini suv based on that plarform and diesel engine would be nice..lots of such mini suv are seen in east asia.

Gus, i dont think any sedan can easily handle 200kg of in laws at the back given the science behind our speed humps..does chennai have any bad ones.....one soln is ask them get lighter.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 18 Apr 2013 08:58

Singha wrote:How is the honda amaze diesel? A mini suv based on that plarform and diesel engine would be nice..lots of such mini suv are seen in east asia.

saw the ads..haven't seen one in road or got my grubby paws on it yet. looks promising if they have built this for our conditions and requirements and not a "this is enough for these turd worlders who will pay thru the nose for any crap we deign to sell them"

Gus, i dont think any sedan can easily handle 200kg of in laws at the back given the science behind our speed humps..does chennai have any bad ones.....one soln is ask them get lighter.

oh they are just disasters waiting to happen. they're overweight for probably 15 plus years now...too much polished rice, oil and sugar in diet, and an infuriatingly adamant attitude in not changing anything. There's only so much I can say without that becoming a stress back on me

Chennai city bumps are ok..they are wider and hence don't scrape that easy. But the bumps before toll gates on the highways are the hardest one to get over. and in one or two places there's like three of them in a row..so its *scrap* *wince* *scrap* *wince* *scrap* *wince*

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Apr 2013 10:17

from a full page review in TOI today the interior is a grade up from the Brio and modelled on their bigger vehicles in terms of how the back of the front seats curve to create space, the glove compartment, instruments etc. the boot is 400L.
looks more VFM than City for sure if one does not mind the smaller size.

and the ugly sagging backside of the Brio is gone here.

vina · Post by **vina** » 18 Apr 2013 10:43

Singha wrote:How is the honda amaze diesel?

Well the team bhp guys seem ga ga over it. It has diesel, puts out 100bhp (will be one of the fastest cars on the road given that Power and torque to weight ratios) and gives 25KMPL. That checks all the boxes for them, the rest is all of no consequence for those folks I guess .

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Apr 2013 15:47

I guess after years and years of whining they finally got what they wanted - something that hardly weighs more than swift, is more powerful, relatively affordable, probably more refined and diesel as well.

this could take a big bite out of swift diesel and Dzire sales.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 18 Apr 2013 16:03

Singha wrote:I guess after years and years of whining they finally got what they wanted - something that hardly weighs more than swift, is more powerful, relatively affordable, probably more refined and diesel as well.

this could take a big bite out of swift diesel and Dzire sales.

The only thing that'll ever fully satisfy TBHP is:

1. Free revving 1.6 L (or better) Petrol engine.
2. Direct, well weighted hydraulic power steering.
3. A great chassis.
4. Good mileage.
5. Priced well.

Ergo, Ford released the 1.6 S Fiesta and none of them bought it.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 18 Apr 2013 19:19

Marten wrote:Vina, Sriman, Singha saar: The most important checkbox to be ticked on TBHP at least is ABS. There's a fair bit of whining happening over the availability only in certain models as against all models as reported earlier. Most of the radio noise is generated by chaps driving either a sub-compact and aspiring for a big boat or from folks who drive a big boat and want to let the others know. Like BRF, there are only a few threads left on which meaningful information is to be sought. Everything else has been abandoned to the Sith.

Agree Martenullah. The previous post was tongue in cheek. I like TBHP, i think there is enough info on there to get the facts straight. As for Amaze, i think the excitement will die down after a while and Dzire will continue selling well. Amaze should sell good numbers on its own and it's good that MSIL has some competition for diesels.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Apr 2013 07:56

BMW Starts Production of Mini in India
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... countryman

CHENNAI: A year after introducing its popular 'MINI' range of cars in India, luxury car maker BMW has begun the local production of 'MINI Countryman' at the facility here."A new chapter is set to be written in MINI's global success story as cars from the British premium brand roll off an assembly line outside Europe for the first time. The Group today announced the commencement of local production of MINI Countryman at BMW Plant near Chennai," BMW India said in a statement.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 19 Apr 2013 08:24

Sriman wrote:
Singha wrote:I guess after years and years of whining they finally got what they wanted - something that hardly weighs more than swift, is more powerful, relatively affordable, probably more refined and diesel as well.

this could take a big bite out of swift diesel and Dzire sales.
The only thing that'll ever fully satisfy TBHP is:

1. Free revving 1.6 L (or better) Petrol engine.
2. Direct, well weighted hydraulic power steering.
3. A great chassis.
4. Good mileage.
5. Priced well.

Ergo, Ford released the 1.6 S Fiesta and none of them bought it.

You forgot to add 15" alloy wheels.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Apr 2013 12:22

And you forgot ownership cost of Alto equivalent too.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 19 Apr 2013 12:55

I stopped over in Dubai recently and was surprised to see the variety of cars on the roads. It seemed like pretty much every US model is available with many others from Europe that aren't in the US.

While a percentage (perhaps half) of the cars I saw are now also available in India, there are many models that aren't in India. I was wondering why this is. Surely Dubai, and perhaps even the Middle East countries as a whole, are a much smaller car market than India? If that's so, how is it economically viable to sell such a much larger variety of cars there than in India?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 19 Apr 2013 13:57

Abhijeet wrote:While a percentage (perhaps half) of the cars I saw are now also available in India, there are many models that aren't in India. I was wondering why this is. Surely Dubai, and perhaps even the Middle East countries as a whole, are a much smaller car market than India? If that's so, how is it economically viable to sell such a much larger variety of cars there than in India?

Customs duty on completely built units and knocked down kits in India is very high. So the only way manufacturers can competitively sell vehicles in India is with local manufacturing (and a very high localization). While the market for hatches and sedans is pretty big, for a lot of other segments the market may not be big enough for manufacturers to move manufacturing to India. So you'll see a car like the Liva sold very competitively (with high localization) but a Corolla sold at a premium (yes, positioning is also a factor but localization will be also be lower). Also a few manufacturers are reluctant to enter India because they aren't really sure if they can compete at the scale that justifies the investment (Citroen etc).

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Apr 2013 14:26

+1 to Sriman, In Dubai and rest of ME, the max tax is only CD of say~5%, no ED-EVD, lifetime tax, VAT etc. Plus given thier roads many of the cars sold in ME are sold to different standard and re exported out of ME in 5 years to Africa and other poorer countries.

Thier emission control standards are also not great and fuel sold is generally of very good quality.

So all Manufacturers need to do is tie with a local dealer and ship the cars their. There are no rules of selling parts for 12 years after sale etc.

Vehicle service and repair costs cost a bomb in the middle east.

archan · Post by **archan** » 21 Apr 2013 16:57

I got a Brio. The one down from top model S(O) as I insisted on having two airbags. The only difference between this and the top of the line was fog lights and alloy wheels, and of course the extra 35K. The sagging look of the bottom does not bother me. In fact, it looks good and is easier to open the rear door. It cost less than a comparably equipped (by that I mean, two airbags , non negotiable for me) i10, Ritz, Swift, Micra et al. The attitude of Maruti dealerships is not very encouraging either - they just sell more than they need to be doing I guess.
It will soon be time to shop for wifey and Amaze is on the top of the list. I hear Ford is also going to come up with a little SUV which I might wait out of curiosity to see what its about.

archan · Post by **archan** » 21 Apr 2013 21:27

Marten wrote: Archan, did you consider the AT option? We're looking at this and the Scala (have decided to wisely avoid the TBHP what car thread to avoid more confusion).

There was a 3 month wait for the auto! that's what I hate about car buying in India. You have to book, wait in line, blah blah. In the US you could walk in and drive out many times, with a small wait on most other times. The Jazz, wasn't even available at any dealership!
The next one is going to be an auto for sure (its for SHQ). Probably Amaze petrol auto. Will run me about 7.6 ex showroom, meaning about 8.2 on road?

archan · Post by **archan** » 21 Apr 2013 22:08

Fully Loaded Petrol is listed on Carwle as 7.69. It will go up to 9 on road?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 21 Apr 2013 23:21

archan wrote:Fully Loaded Petrol is listed on Carwle as 7.69. It will go up to 9 on road?

Carwale has an OTR price feature which is pretty accurate. They ask for your details, but i haven't been spammed or called yet.

http://www.carwale.com/new/prices.aspx? ... trkprcqt=1

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Apr 2013 01:14

archan wrote:There was a 3 month wait for the auto! that's what I hate about car buying in India. You have to book, wait in line, blah blah.

try buying a goddamn enfield bullet. i know people with waiting period of 9 months. there are people who booked and sold that for a premium to somebody else. onlee in India. The worst part is that the product is not that amazing either...it is just that it is the only one available at that category with that price point (rest are imported and cost many times that) and you have no choice but to sign up and wait.

Will run me about 7.6 ex showroom, meaning about 8.2 on road?

how long have you been in india

I looked at this and settled for a used one. Cars get beat up so easily in city traffic..I just saved myself lot of heartburn.

archan · Post by **archan** » 22 Apr 2013 07:09

Been driving for a year my friend. Yes I've had my share of dings, but nothing that would preclude a new car purchase in the future. There is scam in everything here, so unless one knows a thing or two about cars (which I admit I don't), it is a bit of a risk to buy used. More than anything, I don't have the time to spend getting things fixed. Weekdays are fully overbooked by work these days.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2013 07:30

if the diff is about 50-100K between Dzire and Amaze whatever models match, would run with amaze - the engine & trans is likely to be better and smoother given typical honda trends and the interior will again usually be better since MUL doesnt spent much on interior luxury. Dzire is a dated design now...its been around for 5-6 yrs now and just the trunk got shorter, rest is same.

the dzire trunk looks like it could have trouble with 2 suitcases a typical situation being picking up parents or relatives.

I think the verna is also an option if 9L is the on road price. not sure if it has AT.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Apr 2013 13:06

anybody bought Duster here? friend is looking for a crossover.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Apr 2013 22:33

Maruti Suzuki developing two diesel engines for future models
http://techwhack.co/maruti-suzuki-devel ... els-44069/

Indian government is trying hard to bridge the gap in the prices of petrol and diesel in India. But it still is not changing the growing love for diesel engine powered cars in the market. Maruti Suzuki has gained a lot by offering diesel version of their hatchbacks and sedans in India. Though they only have access to one single engine which is sourced from Fiat. Industry sources say that the company is developing two brand new engines in-house which would power their next generation models. The company seems to be developing a 1 liter and 1.4 liter models. We imagine that the 1 liter model would be used to power smaller hatchbacks like Ritz and A-Star. 1.4 liter can power sedans like SX4 and newer models. The company might also need to consider even larger engines for premium segment models like the Kizashi and Vitara.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Apr 2013 23:19

question

how many of you really really need cars???

In Mumbai we make do without it.

Rickshaws for short trips and radio cab\pvt taxi for longer ones or long distance

no headaches in fighting for parking space, driver etc

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Apr 2013 00:06

Marten wrote:Mumbai has amazing public transport infrastructure. Given its area and the density of traffic, it is simply a miracle at work (keeping in mind the lack of funding for additional rail lines on Harbour or Central).

True that! You will get squeezed, pushed, elbowed, stepped on, suffocate and inhale a lifetime of smoke in a few hours, but you can reach pretty much every little nook and cranny of the city at an affordable price.

If you grow up in Mumbai, you don't realize how much you take that for granted till you step out and start living in another city, whether in India or massaland.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Apr 2013 05:16

^so, even with best services, we

nachiket wrote:get squeezed, pushed, elbowed, stepped on, suffocate and inhale a lifetime of smoke in a few hours, .

get:
i was under the impression and feeling with little experience (normally i hate public transportation in desh) just for these reasons, plug get mugged, chain snatched, pick-pocketed, molested and what not. this is all over.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 23 Apr 2013 08:31

Sriman wrote:Sridhar saar, what's your take on Figo and the Ritz? I'm inclined towards the Figo because of the driving dynamics and overall VFM but i'm hearing mixed things about Ford's service and spares.

If it is petrol,ritz is a better option as it has much smoother engine, gearbox, efficiency and power.

For Diesel, Figo is extremely VFM. On the maintenance cost, Figo is cheaper to maintain during the warranty period i.e. spares are covered under warranty and Ford's service charges/consumables are cheaper. Maruti has slowly upped the cost with the authorized service centers forcing unsuspecting customers for more service and synthetic oil. However Ford becomes expensive in the post warranty period. Secondly cost of spares that is prone to accident damage (bumpers, mirrors etc.) are costly but willl not be an issue if you have bumper to bumper cover. If you are driving mostly in city and intend to keep the car for 3 years, you should not worry about the figo's service and spare parts. The issue is after 3 years, and you drive out of city limits, maintenance cost and availability of spares becomes an issue. The amount of warranty replacement that Ford seems to do on the cars seems to be on the higher side based on my friends experiences and my reading on the forums.

If you are not concerned about space, and don't drive on twisty turvy roads, but drive all over India and intend to keep the car longer Ritz may be a better option.

Just my humble thoughts/observations

Dzire vs Amaze - The Dzire is completely based on the new Swift Platform, longer wheel base, improved suspension and much better looking interiors. I own a 2012 Swift and can vouch for the slightly better looking interior. However, the build quality of the Maruti still leaves a lot to be desired with poor quality of plastics. The door trims rattle already and the plastics on the door already fades. Expect the honda's interior to be more durable though not better looking.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 23 Apr 2013 09:58

^^
Thank you saar. Do you think the 1L premium Swift commands over Figo/Ritz worth it? I understand Ford has cut a few corners (No adjustable head rest in the back, i can live without power windows

) but still it's pretty loaded feature wise (especially the new facelift). I will test drive all the cars, but still trying to figure out things that only long term owners would notice.