India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 06:48

^^^ The guy was nearly murdered for standing around. Isnt it amazing the perpetrator has been arrested?

On the other hand, what is the world coming to, arresting a cop just for knocking a black dude down.

And in the american mind (without fail), he is suing and will cost the city for a ton of money!

This is the first time I have heard MEA do anything useful. Outside of issuing passports grudgingly. For an individual.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Feb 2015 07:23

Beats the days Nirupama Rao was there

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 13 Feb 2015 07:33

Yesterday on doornob program he literally and figuratively made a$$ out of ravi batra who was behaving more american than the americans themselves.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Feb 2015 07:34

and Meera Shankar as Indian consul in US.

partha · Post by **partha** » 13 Feb 2015 07:37

Video of innocent Indian grand father being assaulted by that Alabama "cop" -

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/0 ... olice.html

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 13 Feb 2015 08:01

partha wrote:Video of innocent Indian grand father being assaulted by that Alabama "cop" -

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/0 ... olice.html

From another angle just in case someone deems this is "inconclusive"

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Feb 2015 08:10

oh come on.. what accountability yaaa..

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 08:24

The 2016 field is loking really disappointing -- Biden, Clinton, Christie, Jeb, Walker, Paul.

Not one human being if put together. Yuck.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 13 Feb 2015 09:37

Jesus, that's brutal and cruel... The guy is a weak and helpless individual. Seems like the cop literally broke his back. Actually he was cooperating best he knew how. Poor grandpa had no idea about the slam down coming and so was unprepared... At most police in India for something like this "looking a houses"!!!!!! would have just simply said we are watching you be careful or something. This is armed thuggery with legal permit!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Feb 2015 09:45

Need to track police shootings of accused in US. Beats KSA where kazi condemns leading to execution. In US police execute without trial. No problems!

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 09:51

^^^^ Read up on what the recent past FBI director has said like this week about accounts and numbers of police shootings -- cops wont even give this data to the feds.

The US, shamefully, does NOT know how many shootings by cops there are each year. An act of congress hasnt changed this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Feb 2015 09:52

Please any link.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 09:55

http://fusion.net/story/48346/fbi-direc ... available/

every major news-toiletpaper has it.

habal · Post by **habal** » 13 Feb 2015 09:58

they do it, because they believe that they have a social sanction for going after browns and blacks. This attitude has been promoted by none other than successive US govt and their think tanks and media so that they can dehumanize certain racial groups and thus public doesn't question their wars in certain specific parts of the world which are populated by these groups.

It is a narrative that is so deep set in their subconscious that is coming out at such a moment, where they have to choose whether to be violent or non-violent against a black or brown individual. Ofcourse there are violent black people and latinos in the great USA, but usually most cops or rather most human beings have sufficient experience to know who is usually violent and who is not. So thus it is their deeply ingrained racist colonial derived cognitive bias that comes out in such ocassions where a decision has to be made.

I am sure the solution for this (symptom) is not going to come from US govt or it's agencies, because they are responsible for this situation in the first place.

Many Indians in USA who are not FOB but have lived there for a few decades get away with this kind of behaviour because they can mimic the white social ethics creating a temporary confusion for the beat cop but what they should realize is that the undercurrent is still there in the cop's subconscious, it just got blurred for a bit by mimicing white behaviour. If they feel they can get away with it, they will/can scale up their behaviour at any moment.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 10:03

^^^ Sure money bedazzles anyone for a bit, but the glamor wears off, long even before the money.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 10:28

Let me make ~~two~~ three predictions here (I am starting to lose the ability to count

: The air in Mexico sometimes does that to you).
1) The cop will not face any jail time, not will he face any economic penalty. (he is charged for a misdemeanor, and can easily plea it down)
2) The cop will be back to work in another city in a matter of 6 months.
3) He will still get to keep his pension (the reason why many cops make about 150k $ is because a large part of it is put into a pension fund).

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 10:34

Here is the funny thing. American right is all about breaking trade unions (because thats where em commmoooonists hide). Cops are about the most crazy right wing nut jobs you will ever meet (large numbers are). And yet the cops and correctional facility employees are the most unionized of the lot. Every governor and every mayor of every state and city and county fears the vote of the cop union.

Cops are a "vote bank", they will vote as their mullah "police union leader" tells them to vote. They are a band of brothers. Anyone within that band is human and deserves to be treated like one, anyone outside of that is not human (especially when that non-human thing is also non-white).

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 13 Feb 2015 10:35

I believe they should charge and arrest the neighbor who called the cops and filed a false report instead of arresting the officer.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Feb 2015 10:47

Manny wrote:I believe they should charge and arrest the neighbor who called the cops and filed a false report instead of arresting the officer.

There is nothing wrong in calling the police when you find something suspicious. For rich white people, brown fellows walking on the road are suspicious. So they are right in calling the police. It is fault of the Indian brown people who think that they are equal to whites in khanland. They are not. With all your fancy degrees and richness you are just brown paki. Brown/beard/turban = terrorist. If this incidence does not wake them up, then nothing else will do. Wake up people and know your place in khanland.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Feb 2015 10:50

He ain't "looking into garages" what does it even mean when all those fu(k1ng garages are closed. What a bunch of insular people in the brick house neighborhood! Three bl00dy(ing) cops to handle a man half the size of any one of the cops. I am almost his age and build. So fascking depressing, these videos and the behavior of the cops. No way anybody could've considered him to be life threatening, least of all those hefty over fed cops.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2015 10:52

^^ have to agree. being well off and employed is "some" protection...but when push comes to shove no insulation. there is nothing you can do to save your visiting parents or yourself from such incidents unless you just walk from car to door and door to car and avoid walking on the road.

nowhere else in the world perhaps not even in TSP or KSA is the police so free and brutal with the use of force...and face no repercussions.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 13 Feb 2015 10:52

matrimc wrote:He ain't "looking into garages" what does it even mean when all those fu(k1ng garages are closed. Wget a bunch of insular people in the brick house neighborhood! Three bl00dy(ing) cops to handle a man half the size any one of the cops. I am almost his age and build. So fascking depressing, these videos and the behavior of the cops. No way anion body could've considered him to be life threatening.

Welcome to White-Protestant America. Luckily I'm surrounded by Cubans.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 13 Feb 2015 10:55

Just an Indian uncle man... we know. SDRE, frail, basically not even a close match for half the women in the US... You can see the force with which he was brought down chest and head first, legs are flying up from behind - totally clear that uncle was not anticipating anything as violent as a slam-down; he was probably worried while being cuffed that his son and daughter in law would be upset for "creating problem"... Truly tragic.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2015 10:59

somehow in my era I felt a whole lotta more comfortable moving around in hispanic areas and lower income black areas than in rich white towns.
the cops in rich white towns are always willing to pounce on anyone passing through for every minor violation of the myriad rules that have been put up to deter the riff raff like us. I keep a very careful eye for any stop signs , speed limit changes etc in such towns...one never knows where a cop is camped "protecting the community"..fortunately most of CA has become "browned" so the comfort level is higher there.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 13 Feb 2015 11:05

Singha wrote:somehow in my era I felt a whole lotta more comfortable moving around in hispanic areas and lower income black areas than in rich white towns.
the cops in rich white towns are always willing to pounce on anyone passing through for every minor violation of the myriad rules that have been put up to deter the riff raff like us. I keep a very careful eye for any stop signs , speed limit changes etc in such towns...one never knows where a cop is camped "protecting the community"..fortunately most of CA has become "browned" so the comfort level is higher there.

Tell me about it. Police where I live are all hispanic. They don't really go by the books too much. Most of them don't care if you stop a little past the stop sign or go 5-10 over. As soon as I go to the white/jewish part of town they all go ape-sh*t and are itching to bust you for something.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 11:06

I tell everyone who come here: The ladder of escalation from contact with a cop to your death can be as short as a single rung. You put your hands in your pocket and you would end up with 40 holes in your body (youtube has more than enough of such things).

There is no "rational" way to deal with the cops. Especially if you are in a situation where there are many ways communications can break down
For ex:
1) We saw what happened here. Language
2) Deaf man (== dead man, youtube has some videos on that)
3) Multiple cops shouting out conflction orders. One yells Hands up, the other yells dont move (== you are dead).
4) Cognitive inability to comply. Dehydrated disoriented "suspect" (as I was once) or mentally challenged person.

The cops are following "their book", the problem is "the book" is effed up and needs to be scrubbed.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 13 Feb 2015 11:17

LokeshC wrote:I tell everyone who come here: The ladder of escalation from contact with a cop to your death can be as short as a single rung. You put your hands in your pocket and you would end up with 40 holes in your body (youtube has more than enough of such things).

There is no "rational" way to deal with the cops. Especially if you are in a situation where there are many ways communications can break down
For ex:
1) We saw what happened here. Language
2) Deaf man (== dead man, youtube has some videos on that)
3) Multiple cops shouting out conflction orders. One yells Hands up, the other yells dont move (== you are dead).
4) Cognitive inability to comply. Dehydrated disoriented "suspect" (as I was once) or mentally challenged person.

The cops are following "their book", the problem is "the book" is effed up and needs to be scrubbed.

I've had a few run ins. Black and hispanic cops are mostly friendly and have normally let me go. A friend of mine got tazed right in front of me by "accident" b/c the police horse began gnawing on his hair and he slapped it away. Settled for $50,000.

A neighbor of mine got shot with a bean bag gun while pressure washing his roof because the police thought he was a drug dealer. Turns out the grow house was in my other neighbors home lol.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 11:19

Honestly I believe GOI *should* give out a travel advisory to all its citizens travelling to the US. There are legitimate reasons for doing so.

They also must give travelers a booklet informing them of the dangers of a police confrontation and what needs to be done (i.e. keep hands visible etc), when police confronts you.

Actually as much as I feel sorry for that uncle, I think he is lucky. If there was no dash cam footage (or if this was off camera), the uncle will be in a prison infirmary for felony assault of a cop with possibly much more than his spine broken.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 13 Feb 2015 11:25

All those people that complain about US and its acts of brutality, time to man up and put your money where your mouth is (yes that includes you, Tuvuluan and LokeshC). I have donated money to this fund to help pay for Mr. Patel's medical bills.

Here is the link:
http://www.gofundme.com/m757pw

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 11:30

Try these guys too while you are at it:
https://www.facebook.com/policethepoliceACP (accept donations)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radley_Balko -- has a book :- Rise of the Warrior Cop

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 13 Feb 2015 11:31

when this happened to a black guy, at least a few here had a different reaction. not naming names, but you know who you are.

this can happen to anyone. that is the point. especially to us who get clubbed with blacks. does not matter if you earn 6 figures and live in a "good neighborhood".

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 13 Feb 2015 12:06

from the reddit link of shreeman

the officer who committed assault was the field training officer. He was the instructor for the other cop (a rookie).

This guy wasn't just a beat cop, he was well regarded enough to be given the responsibility of training other officers.

Think about that for a moment...

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Feb 2015 12:40

Just to add, it doesn't have to be just blacks and browns. Even white people are treated that way though the numbers are dominated by the "coloured" folks. White jogger female at a signal near a uni campus waiting for the walk sign was brought down by cops since she didn't turn around and stop when asked to, as she was wearing headphones and was running!

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 12:51

Its just started to affect lower middle class whites, i.e. people who dont have much networking capability to mobilize votes.

Once it starts affecting the networked (i.e. upper )middle class whites and unionized blue colored whites, you can see some significant resistance and awareness of this phenomena.

There are two aspects wrt race in this case.
1) This was how LEOs behaved with with blacks and browns all the time (most Patrols in the south were really slave patrols that morphed into police patrols).
2) Sureshbhai would have been murdered and/or falsely charged with felony assault if the cops could get away with it (if it was off camera), with a white person that is unlikely, especially if he is from middle class. It can happen, but very unlikely.

Here is what I mean by (2) above: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/70-yea ... king-cane/

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 12:55

Here is another fun fact. If Sureshbhai has to renew his greencard or travel anywhere that needs a visa, all visa applications have this column:

x) Have you been arrested for any crime at any point in the last xyz years : _____________

He will have to tick that column and explain. One arrest can screw your happiness for a long long time.

habal · Post by **habal** » 13 Feb 2015 13:02

LokeshC wrote:Honestly I believe GOI *should* give out a travel advisory to all its citizens travelling to the US. There are legitimate reasons for doing so.

they should also specifically mention that a significant number of white police force are racist. And are encouraged by the state to be free with their guns.

otherwise there is little point in this advisory.

Prasad wrote:Just to add, it doesn't have to be just blacks and browns. Even white people are treated that way though the numbers are dominated by the "coloured" folks. White jogger female at a signal near a uni campus waiting for the walk sign was brought down by cops since she didn't turn around and stop when asked to, as she was wearing headphones and was running!

was she put in a chokehold, slammed down into the pavement and then the cops fling around her limp body as well ?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Feb 2015 13:17

Hah. No. she was smart - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hones.html
Top cop said, hey atleast we're not being accused of sexual assaults! Nice no?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Feb 2015 13:27

This has been the great failing of this US admin. under O'Bumbler.The racial hatred that has resurfaced and the excessive police brutality against the coloured minorities reminiscent of Nazi Germany.
The news that the MEA asked for explanations from the US embassy must be highlighted prominently and a travel advisory published .Let the US know how deeply pissed off we are.

I also suggest that we bombard O'Bumbler with letters/mail, asking him for an explanation and that surely Dr.King had he been alive would've been shocked and saddened at the treatment of blacks and coloured minorities under a black US president!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2015 13:48

Philip, I dont think its a recent thing but internet, social media and cell phone cams have pulled the rug covering it now. the start of it was someone videotaped the 6 cops beating rodney king to a pulp.

the gorilla always had his hand in the cookie jar.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 13:58

Philip wrote:This has been the great failing of this US admin. under O'Bumbler.The racial hatred that has resurfaced and the excessive police brutality against the coloured minorities reminiscent of Nazi Germany.
The news that the MEA asked for explanations from the US embassy must be highlighted prominently and a travel advisory published .Let the US know how deeply pissed off we are.

I also suggest that we bombard O'Bumbler with letters/mail, asking him for an explanation and that surely Dr.King had he been alive would've been shocked and saddened at the treatment of blacks and coloured minorities under a black US president!

Phillip,

Yes, as beer summits go this president and his advisors are over sensitive to race.

Yet, until the recent transformation to a lame duck (and loss of senate), this president has been against discrimination, in words and in actions. See the LGBT debate. This problem, and healthcare are not his failings as an individual.

This is a societal failing. As Singha noted, things were much much worse earlier and have never gotten better.

The solution to this is the lobby effect. Indians give two hoots for each other when abroad, and I can demonstrate the cowardry here in this forum in an instant. Unless you speak compassionately for each other, stand on principle and put your collective good ahead of selfish and egotistic aims, no US administration will treat you any better.

Jm2C. Sent with goodwill.