Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Mar 2018 10:00

Congrats! NAG completes development trials.

*Deleted* useless part. JayS

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Mar 2018 10:04

^^
Nag is being tested to fight anti-tank battles at sea
https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/968895139639836672

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 01 Mar 2018 16:36

MOD NOTE: Please go to whining thread if you want to vent out. Otherwise get ready to earn rewards for posts which do not add any value here.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 01 Mar 2018 18:58

This is not the first time they completed development trials, and stated it’s ready for induction. If we look back in time there will be similar declarations. Stating the obvious is not whining.

Sep 11, 2017 - Janes DRDO completes development trials of Nag
http://www.janes.com/article/73691/drdo ... f-nag-atgm

https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/indias- ... s-in-test/

The Indian Army has so far not publicly commented on the successful Nag ATGM test. Notably, DRDO had announced the completion of development trials already in September 2017.

Indian Army officials have repeatedly stated that they expect development trials to be concluded by the end of 2018

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Mar 2018 11:42

shiv wrote:^^
Nag is being tested to fight anti-tank battles at sea
https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/968895139639836672

I have decided to revive the rather hilarious "Tracking Errors in Defence Reporting" thread which was dormant for a while, with your post.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3694&p=2255729#p2255729

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Mar 2018 11:55

Yesterdays top attack test of prospina was with local mmw seeker

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Mar 2018 12:07

^^Link Singha saar?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 02 Mar 2018 12:26

JayS: as a mod, you can edit out whatever you want. But none of the 3 points I made were cooked up. Each one was a real excuse given by the IA in the past, for not inducting NAG. Having watched its lack of induction for years and having seen multiple "trails completed" back-pats, one doesn't get his hopes high this time around.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Mar 2018 13:07

The key is rather than just sticking to Namica's , Jeep mounted versions along LOC - both MMW and II Seekers should be considered, plus a Manportable shorter range version in future. These have the potential to be game changers.

Only hope the Internal lobby gravvy train system can be overruled.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 02 Mar 2018 13:46

That is on the cards. That is why the spike deal got canned.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Mar 2018 13:58

nachiket wrote:^^Link Singha saar?

Delhi Defence Review
@delhidefence
NEWS: @DRDO_India tested the Prospina anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) in top-attack mode earlier today. Prospina is the latest iteration of the Nag ATGM and sports an indigenous MWIR seeker. Here are file images of the Prospina/Nag being tested in top-attack mode.

2:28 PM - Feb 28, 2018

being file images may not be the latest test

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Mar 2018 14:25

Singha Sar, the link says MWIR- Medium Wave IR Seeker not MMW RF seeker.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 02 Mar 2018 14:26

Wasn't there an earlier test with the same mmwrf seeker?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Mar 2018 14:32

As far as I know there were some in December 2011, but no idea about recent tests of MMW seeker.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Mar 2018 15:02

my mistake. this would be the desi IR seeker with higher resolution (with some part sourced from sofradir or licensed into BEL/ECIL?) . this seeker is to meet the IA's ask to work in very high temp in daylight against a very hot tank.

I dont think we have a mmw seeker ready for test or may not be working on it.

nam · Post by **nam** » 02 Mar 2018 15:59

SANT would have use a MMR seaker, since it is longer ranged.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 02 Mar 2018 17:23

^^^^If we have mastered the miniaturization and shock proofing of electronics/sensors etc when fired from a tank gun, would this imply that smart artillery/mortar shells would also be within our reach with respect to indigenous development?

nam · Post by **nam** » 02 Mar 2018 17:48

SANT is fired from a helicopter, not from a tank. CLGM is the version that is fired from the tank.

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Mar 2018 18:00

Singha wrote:my mistake. this would be the desi IR seeker with higher resolution (with some part sourced from sofradir or licensed into BEL/ECIL?) . this seeker is to meet the IA's ask to work in very high temp in daylight against a very hot tank.

I dont think we have a mmw seeker ready for test or may not be working on it.

DRDO chief had mentioned MMW seeker would be too big for the NAG.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Mar 2018 18:44

On the Nag/Prospina, we had always used an IIR seeker.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 02 Mar 2018 19:09

I have seen countless drawings and models of fighter jets but have yet to see a drawing of a manportable nag atgm.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/indias- ... s-in-test/

DRDO successfully tested its ATGM Nag in desert conditions against two tank targets on February 28, according to an Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) press release.

The above is the namica version. I doubt if the manportable version has left the drawing board. India has always had a problem with miniaturization.

India places IAI, Rafael on restricted procurements list

Just last week, Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd., the developer of the spike man portable atgm was blacklisted by the indian govt

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Mar 2018 19:25

^^^
DRDO and VEM have been working on multiple projects since the 90s. Here is a VEM displayed MANPAT at the recent Defense Expo.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 02 Mar 2018 22:04

srai wrote:
Singha wrote:my mistake. this would be the desi IR seeker with higher resolution (with some part sourced from sofradir or licensed into BEL/ECIL?) . this seeker is to meet the IA's ask to work in very high temp in daylight against a very hot tank.

I dont think we have a mmw seeker ready for test or may not be working on it.
DRDO chief had mentioned MMW seeker would be too big for the NAG.

Is that for the mm seeker drdo managed to develop to date, or technically not feasible? Can't be latter as Nag was sanctioned to have mm seeker, and I was indirectly involved in setting up the lab at CARE-IIT Delhi to pioneer mmw seekers, way back 1987.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Mar 2018 22:10

Aditya_V wrote:The key is rather than just sticking to Namica's , Jeep mounted versions along LOC - both MMW and II Seekers should be considered, plus a Manportable shorter range version in future. These have the potential to be game changers.

Only hope the Internal lobby gravvy train system can be overruled.

Very true. It adds a lot of anti-tank kill capability to any division.

These would flow down to company level.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Mar 2018 22:14

Singha wrote:
nachiket wrote:^^Link Singha saar?
Delhi Defence Review
@delhidefence
NEWS: @DRDO_India tested the Prospina anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) in top-attack mode earlier today. Prospina is the latest iteration of the Nag ATGM and sports an indigenous MWIR seeker. ...

2:28 PM - Feb 28, 2018
.....

Akshay, Here is an example of media with humanities background.

tell me does a missile 'sport' a seeker like bird sports feathers?

Why do the defence media use such non-serious language?
Or throw in acronyms to show off being part of in crowd.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Mar 2018 22:17

Bart S wrote:^^^^If we have mastered the miniaturization and shock proofing of electronics/sensors etc when fired from a tank gun, would this imply that smart artillery/mortar shells would also be within our reach with respect to indigenous development?

Nag or Prospina is not gun launched. So could still be working on it.

However the radio proximity fuze that ECIL makes for shells is gun launched and they are familiar with shock proofing.
Now BEL makes electronic fuzes at the Pune facility with Israeli collaboration.
Wish some enterprising reporter does a report on them.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Mar 2018 22:21

But BartS, if DRDO masters the optical guidance launch from gun barrel on a shell and not a missile like CLGM, then the Krasnopol-M or Excalibur type precision shell would be available.

I don't know if IA or IN has asked for such ordnance.

Will check the 2018 technologies for MII list that jayasimha posts so often.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 02 Mar 2018 23:13

Tender published for Akash NG Mobile Launcher System design and development work. time line 15months from contract. So Akash NG is *at least* 1.5yrs away from test firing perhaps..?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 02 Mar 2018 23:30

ARDE is giving out 250kg pre-fragmented and 500kg General purpose bomb manufacturing with ToT to private or public companies.

IAF req for these pre-frag bombs is 200/yr.

IAF req for GP 500kg bomb 1000 to start with and 200/yr there after.

Both bombs have completed development trials.

srai · Post by **srai** » 03 Mar 2018 07:31

^^^
Times are indeed changing! Good volume business case for private manufacturers to get involved. Multi-year orders for the foreseeable future.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Mar 2018 08:06

JayS wrote:Tender published for Akash NG Mobile Launcher System design and development work. time line 15months from contract. So Akash NG is *at least* 1.5yrs away from test firing perhaps..?

Does that mean that the missile will have a different airframe from the current missile. If so then will it have any compatibility with current system.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Mar 2018 08:50

Test firing is done from exposed harness or temp stands. Astra started out same way it wont wait for the whole battery kit to develop

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 03 Mar 2018 11:06

Singha wrote:Test firing is done from exposed harness or temp stands. Astra started out same way it wont wait for the whole battery kit to develop

Good point. I didnt think about it.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 05 Mar 2018 02:46

INDIA TODAY: All you need to know about the 'fire'-istic series of missiles, the Agni Series

This A-3 bit having composite first stage is being repeated here.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 05 Mar 2018 06:57

^^^ My chaiwalla's BIL reported the above confign. And it is my vivid recollection of having seen it in Indian press reporting upon first successful launch. I was unable to find that article in my disc archive.

BTW the above is an echo chamber revibration from my old articles. I will continue to look for the press article from 12 years ago.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2018 09:45

the A6 being 4 stage looks wrong. the A5 chassis conical 3rd stage if replace with a cylinder and topped with a ogival nose looks mirv + more range to me (?) maybe 3 warheads. the A6/K5 could be fatter all through and have some 5-10 warhead + more range for sub launches deep in the south IOR.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 05 Mar 2018 11:10

Pratyush wrote:
JayS wrote:Tender published for Akash NG Mobile Launcher System design and development work. time line 15months from contract. So Akash NG is *at least* 1.5yrs away from test firing perhaps..?
Does that mean that the missile will have a different airframe from the current missile. If so then will it have any compatibility with current system.

Frankly I do not have any idea or I do not remember if at all I have seen anything related to that matter.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 05 Mar 2018 11:27

^^^ Yes the airframe is different. My posts from a few pages back.

Indranil wrote: In general, Akash can be optimized quite a bit. Only about 225 + 60 kg of the missile is fuel + warhead. Meaning: the airframe + guidance systems weigh ~450 kgs! They know how to make much more miniaturized systems now. Therefore, I expect Akash NG to be lighter and smaller, while it increases range to 50 kms. As proof, here is what I had posted some time back
Indranil wrote:Future Astra is not based on the Brahmos motor at all. If anything there are lessons learnt from Akash. But the motor and fuel in general is very different.

Meanwhile, Akash NG will most likely be canisterized. The inside of that canister (for testing its short burn motor) measures 367 mm X 367 mm X 4863 mm. There will be a guide rail on the top, and one wing rail each on the two sides. Draw your own conclusions.

Courtesy: DRDL tender.
So at least it will be 1 mtr shorter in length with a marginal reduction in diameter.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 05 Mar 2018 12:41

Haridas wrote:^^^ My chaiwalla's BIL reported the above confign. And it is my vivid recollection of having seen it in Indian press reporting upon first successful launch. I was unable to find that article in my disc archive.

BTW the above is an echo chamber revibration from my old articles. I will continue to look for the press article from 12 years ago.

Haridas ji, here it is:

India test-fires longer version of surface-to-surface Agni-3 missile

Bhubaneswar (Orissa): India on Wednesday conducted another test of its Agni-III nuclear-capable intermediate ballistic surface-to-surface missile from the Wheeler Island in Balasore Orissa.

The Agni-III missile has a flight-range of 3,500 kms which would bring much of China within its range.

Defence Ministry top officials and scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) witnessed the launch.

The missile was initially supposed to be launched in the last week of April. But the launch was delayed slightly following an appeal by wildlife experts in Orissa to postpone the tests due to the nesting season of the endangered Olive Ridley turtles.

India has lacked a credible nuclear-delivery system that could penetrate the Chinese heartland in stark contrast to China, which has missiles capable of hitting every corner of India.

Agni-III is designed to support both conventional and nuclear warheads, with a total payload weight of 600 kg to 1,800 kg. Analysts say the missile is designed to deliver a nuclear payload to the tune of 200-300 kilotons.

The Agni-III missile has fired by making use of solid fuel propellant unlike the short-range Prithvi missile as well as earlier versions of the Agni surface-to-surface missile.

The Agni-III missile features two solid-fuel stages with overall diameter of 1.8 metres, which is compatible with the recently tested sub-surface launch system.

The missile's first stage booster is made of advanced carbon composite materials to provide high mass fraction. It weighs about 24 tonnes and has a length of seven metres.

The second stage is also made of advanced carbon composite materials weighing around eight tonnes with a length of 2.5 metres.

The article was captured by archive.org on 8 Jan 2009 but it was published on 7 May 2008.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 05 Mar 2018 12:46

This comes from the echo chamber that Haridas ji himself created. They even used his line almost verbatim. Somebody has to show me some logic for the following two points:

1. How come we had the technology to build composite motors for lower stage and not so for the much smaller upper stage?
2. How come we had the technology to build composite motors for lower stage of Agni 3 and not so for Agni 5 which are of IDENTICAL dimensions and thrust?