Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Mar 2015 21:54

Actual crash site looks like burnt or charred place. Plane got pulverised due to high impact and lot of fuels still remaining as it was in the initial leg of the flight. After MH370 this is second accident within one year attributed to Pilot instability.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Mar 2015 21:59

chaanakya wrote:Actual crash site looks like burnt or charred place. Plane got pulverised due to high impact and lot of fuels still remaining as it was in the initial leg of the flight. After MH370 this is second accident within one year attributed to Pilot instability.

The jury is still out on MH370 right? They have no idea what happened there and are now clutching at straws. I remember CNN and co. pointing the finger at the pilot in the early days when it turned out he had his own simulator at home but it was all mindless speculation.

If a pilot wants to crash his plane, he'll do what this German pilot did. Descend and fly into the ground. MH370 kept flying for hours after breaking contact. It doesn't make any sense unless the pilot decided to kill everyone with hypoxia and keep the aircraft flying on autopilot.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 26 Mar 2015 22:00

Emergency unlocking of cockpit door in airbus - but still allows a rogue pilot to overcome it like it did here.

http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2kn0ph

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 26 Mar 2015 22:08

nachiket wrote: The jury is still out on MH370 right? They have no idea what happened there and are now clutching at straws. I remember CNN and co. pointing the finger at the pilot in the early days when it turned out he had his own simulator at home but it was all mindless speculation.

If a pilot wants to crash his plane, he'll do what this German pilot did. Descend and fly into the ground. MH370 kept flying for hours after breaking contact. It doesn't make any sense unless the pilot decided to kill everyone with hypoxia and keep the aircraft flying on autopilot.

Maybe make it look like an accident for insurance claim.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 26 Mar 2015 22:34

chaanakya wrote:
chetak wrote:
Here is one photo of the crash

This is not the plane or the crash site.

That was a cyprus plane.....lost under similsr way.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Mar 2015 22:35

@nachiket I said 'attributed' and not 'proved' but so far no other explanation as the plane or DFDR or CVR is yet to be found. MH370 scenario is both 'good' and 'bad' pilots inside the cockpit. Germanwings scenario is 'bad' pilot in and 'good' pilot out of the cockpit. While the emergency door locking system is devised to keep 'bad' guys from entering into the cockpit.

Incidently I flew barcelona to paris following almost the same route in 2013.One of the Low cost airlines. Now I shudder to think ....

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 26 Mar 2015 23:56

28 year old pilot. One of the following :
1) Girl problems
2) Undiagnosed clinical depression
3) Baki in disguise.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 27 Mar 2015 00:03

nachiket wrote: If a pilot wants to crash his plane, he'll do what this German pilot did. Descend and fly into the ground. MH370 kept flying for hours after breaking contact. It doesn't make any sense unless the pilot decided to kill everyone with hypoxia and keep the aircraft flying on autopilot.

If a pilot is having suicidal thoughts AND has the balls to do it, that is the way to go. Descent at high speed such that the impact would result in instantaneous death.

But that is just one way to go. Here is another if a pilot wants to soosai but does not have the balls to do it. Dive down, depressurize, climb up and keep a bearing that does not hit a landmass anytime soon and wait for asphyxiation to set in.

Assuming that it is possible to depressurize the plane without catastrophic events at a low altitude.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Mar 2015 00:04

Singha wrote:Even in sfo korean air777 the pilots names and hrs on type were released same day.

One set of rules fr tfta goras....not that it will help anyone now.

The Asiana 214 crash happened in the US, where the rules are different. The euros gathered all around and made sure they were protected. The last thing Merkel, Hollande and others would want is a major EU airline in financial trouble.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Mar 2015 01:15

Records show that the F/O was an exceptional pilot. God knows what happened to him during the flight.

http://aviation-business-gazette.com/A4 ... falz-.html

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 01:21

It's one thing 2 b suicidal, quite another to kill 152 innocents including many kids. They are a bit too quick to come up with this.

So the post-911 "security" worked! They didn't have any axes outside to take down that door, in case the co-pilot had suffered heart failure.

They need to get the crew to plug into a vital-functions monitor system. This is terrible: a presumption of mass-murder-suicide. Do they have the Black Box decoded already to be sure it was deliberate action? Or is it the default mode of the famous Le Software Avions d'Airboos?

Lubitz was not known to be on any terrorism list, and his religion was not immediately known, Robin said.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Mar 2015 02:11

double post

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Mar 2015 02:11

Captain went out of cabin to presumably go to the toilet.
Co-pilot deliberately locked Captain out of cabin, overriding his emergency code.
Co-pilot deliberately adjusted Flight Management System to start descend.
Co-pilot did not answer to calls from both the captain and Marseille ATC.
Co-pilot was breathing until impact.
Apparently passengers weren't heard on voice recorder until right before the impact. They must have known they were going to crash when the first light impact occurred.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 05:20

Co-pilot was breathing until impact.

With apologies to ATM for speaking trivially about the Departed. But a question:
An unconscious person or sleeping person also breathes regularly, hain?
So we know that the Captain came out of the cockpit, and immediately the plane started going into a dive. Do they know which happened first?
And then the Captain disappeared into the Pakistan, then came out and started banging on the door, etc. His 'code' didn't work! Locked out! But who knows whether he was using the right code?
But either way it is mass-murder-suicide by the Lufthansa crew. Stunning.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 06:06

Sorry to belabor the point.But see this:

5:32 p.m. ET: Transponder data shows that the autopilot on Germanwings Flight 9525 was reprogrammed by someone in the cockpit to change the plane's altitude from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, according to Flightradar24, a website that tracks aviation data.

• 5:14 p.m. ET: Police searched Germanwings Flight 9525 co-pilot Andreas Lubitz's apartment in Dusseldorf, Germany, on Thursday, the city's police spokesman said in televised comments. A team of five investigators went "through the apartment looking for clues as to what the co-pilot's motivation might have been, if he did indeed bring the plane down," police spokesman Markus Niesczery said

My gentle pooch: Eeph u r going to commit soosai, whyfor need Auto-Peelot? What's wrong with push stick over all the way, point nose towards ground, declare "MayDin! Explosive Decompression Onlee"... and that's it. No one can try entering the cockpit anyway if the plane is in free fall or accelerating downwards: they'll be bouncing off the walls with necks broken if they don't have seat-belts tight.

So the Auto-Peelot is the giveaway. The main inside the cockpit was NOT flying the plane or in any position to fly the plane. The man who left the cockpit, OTOH..

The autopilot was set to a steady descent, which means downward velocity is constant. No acceleration. No one notices that one is diving.. until the cliffs whizz by off the wings moments b4 everything ends.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Mar 2015 06:17

I wonder if a more systemic/mechanical/structural problem is being hidden and (already dead) co-pilot is being made scapegoat. There is a movie with Denzel Washington with similar theme...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 06:32

So you see why the "Co-Peelot is Terrist" theory is not viable. So that points the finger straight at the Peelot.
But is it true? How can someone on the ground know that the autopilot was set to 100 feet on a plane that is now shaheed? Waaaaaaaay too early to release results from the actual Black Box analysis. Who dares to release that information? How many seconds does it take for ppl to realize that this actually EXONERATES the (memory of) the Co-Peelot?

Which points the finger at the Peelot. Another way of saying: "Peelot error". Co-pilot was drugged and asleep/unconscious, Peelot left cockpit under those circumstances, which is damning "evidence".

But both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and this company with djinn powers to see the AutoPeelot setting, are under the control of the German/French guvrmands, hain? Same ppl who control the manufacturers and the airline. Those poor pilots' families don't have a prayer against such power.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Mar 2015 06:55

That data about the copilot deliberately setting the no. from 38000 ft to 96 ft is from flightradar24.com.

http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/ ... at?p=64616

09:30:52Z.386 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
09:30:55Z.397 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa

Flightradar24 is an internet-based service that shows real-time aircraft flight information on a map. It includes flight tracks, origins and destinations, flight numbers, aircraft types, positions, altitudes, headings and speeds. It can also show time-lapse replays of previous tracks and historical flight data by airline, aircraft, aircraft type, area or airport. It aggregates data from multiple sources but, outside of the USA, mostly from crowdsourced information gathering by volunteers with ADS-B receivers.

Multilateration (MLAT)- The second major source is multilateration using Flightradar24 (FR24) receivers. All aircraft types will be visible in areas covered by MLAT, even without ADS-B, but while 99% of Europe is covered, only parts of the USA are. At least four receivers are needed to calculate the position of an aircraft

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 07:26

So they are going by the track taken by the aircraft - assuming that was collected and tracked by ground-based radar. Over the remote French Alps? Maybe. But how do they know that it was programmed to reach 100 feet ASL? You cannot reach 100 feet ASL when the ground level is at 6000 feet ASL, hain?

09:30:55Z.397 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa

So who told them that setting? The setting on the flight computer inside the airplane had to be visible on a ground-based system in real time. Or they have already analyzed the Black Box, which I don't believe they can release info so quickly (too many lawsuit implications, they won't release anything until the Investigation is complete).

Something stinks of pakistan. Think about it. If your computer on the ground can see the settings on the flight control computer inside an airplane, then there is some form of transmission, and so your computer can also reprogram it. IOW, the flight computer in the airplane has an open port through which it can be taken over.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2015 10:46

nachiket wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Actual crash site looks like burnt or charred place. Plane got pulverised due to high impact and lot of fuels still remaining as it was in the initial leg of the flight. After MH370 this is second accident within one year attributed to Pilot instability.
The jury is still out on MH370 right? They have no idea what happened there and are now clutching at straws. I remember CNN and co. pointing the finger at the pilot in the early days when it turned out he had his own simulator at home but it was all mindless speculation.

If a pilot wants to crash his plane, he'll do what this German pilot did. Descend and fly into the ground. MH370 kept flying for hours after breaking contact. It doesn't make any sense unless the pilot decided to kill everyone with hypoxia and keep the aircraft flying on autopilot.

The malaysians are convinced that the US is complicit in the MH370 incident. The aircraft was reputedly carrying an advanced US drone that had crashed in afghanistan, recovered by the mujaheddin and purchased by china which has a standing offer in afghanistan and pakistan to purchase any US hardware recovered from the battlefield or from military stores stolen in transit. The advanced design tail rotor of the crashed helo abandoned after the osama raid in abbottabad pakistan was sold for a very high price by the paki army to the chinese, much against the wishes of the US.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2015 11:09

UlanBatori wrote:So they are going by the track taken by the aircraft - assuming that was collected and tracked by ground-based radar. Over the remote French Alps? Maybe. But how do they know that it was programmed to reach 100 feet ASL? You cannot reach 100 feet ASL when the ground level is at 6000 feet ASL, hain?

09:30:55Z.397 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa

So who told them that setting? The setting on the flight computer inside the airplane had to be visible on a ground-based system in real time. Or they have already analyzed the Black Box, which I don't believe they can release info so quickly (too many lawsuit implications, they won't release anything until the Investigation is complete).

Something stinks of pakistan. Think about it. If your computer on the ground can see the settings on the flight control computer inside an airplane, then there is some form of transmission, and so your computer can also reprogram it. IOW, the flight computer in the airplane has an open port through which it can be taken over.

not 100 ft ASL, saar. It is FL100 or 10,000 ft. In that terrain the correct terminology should be AGL and not ASL. FL100 is chosen because the air at that altitude is normally breathable and legally oxygen masks need not be used.

The settings of QNH etc are made in the cockpit after inputs from the ATC and are repeated back to the ATC after the setting is made as a confirmation. Once the departure setting has been made it remains until the destination ATC gives the local QNH per local readings.

as they approach lower altitudes, the instrument the the pilots rely on under the circumstances is the RADALT (radio altimeter and not the BARALT (barometric altimeter). Both systems are backed up, ( MAIN and STDBY ). It was a clear day and visibility was good. There were no conditions for icing. The safe altitude for the route being flown is always known in advance taking into consideration obstructions like hill/mountain features etc.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 27 Mar 2015 11:17

chetak wrote: The malaysians are convinced that the US is complicit in the MH370 incident. The aircraft was reputedly carrying an advanced US drone that had crashed in afghanistan, recovered by the mujaheddin and purchased by china which has a standing offer in afghanistan and pakistan to purchase any US hardware recovered from the battlefield or from military stores stolen in transit. The advanced design tail rotor of the crashed helo abandoned after the osama raid in abbottabad pakistan was sold for a very high price by the paki army to the chinese, much against the wishes of the US.

Have to admit, that CT is even more outrageous than the ones I've heard till now, including the various Mongolian ones posted here in the immediate aftermath.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2015 11:31

nachiket wrote:
chetak wrote: The malaysians are convinced that the US is complicit in the MH370 incident. The aircraft was reputedly carrying an advanced US drone that had crashed in afghanistan, recovered by the mujaheddin and purchased by china which has a standing offer in afghanistan and pakistan to purchase any US hardware recovered from the battlefield or from military stores stolen in transit. The advanced design tail rotor of the crashed helo abandoned after the osama raid in abbottabad pakistan was sold for a very high price by the paki army to the chinese, much against the wishes of the US.
Have to admit, that CT is even more outrageous than the ones I've heard till now, including the various Mongolian ones posted here in the immediate aftermath.

This is what normal, aviation aware and intelligent folks are repeating in malaysia. during after work discussions with two unconnected groups of people, at different times, the same story was confidently stated to be the reason for the MH370 disappearance. My colleagues too report the very same/similar stories in their chats with malaysian customers.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 27 Mar 2015 12:28

^^ But why ship the drone from Afghanistan to China Via Malaysia? Surely it'll be easier to move it across the border or via Pakistan..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Mar 2015 12:53

Kashi wrote:^^ But why ship the drone from Afghanistan to China Via Malaysia? Surely it'll be easier to move it across the border or via Pakistan..

It seems that it was escorted via Mauritius(?) where the escort was later found dead. Seems like some cloak and dagger operation with more myth than actual fact. That someone on the flight bringing the advanced drone ( a large box ) to Mauritius(?) was found dead under suspicious circumstances in Mauritius was a story that has been around since the very early days of the MH370 tragedy. The same box was later loaded on to MH370 (fact). Whether the box actually contained the crashed US drone is a moot point.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 16:39

But what do these two statements mean, bliss 2 enlighten onlee:

09:30:52Z.386 MCP/FMC ALT: 38000 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa
09:30:55Z.397 MCP/FMC ALT: 96 ft QNH: 1006.0 hPa

38,000 ft sure is not "AGL" when flying over the Alps, hain? The 1006hPA means 1006 millibar = 1.006 standard atmosphere = 1.006x1.01325E5N/m^2. Basically all that means, 36,000 feet to very good accuracy.

Also "AGL" doesn't mean a lot over steep slopes and peaks, hain? If I were specifying AGL over those places it would be "Above the tallest peak".

For instance, 29029 feet ASL over the Himalayas would be 1 ft AGL, not 19,900 ft AGL though the northern Kerala Plateau is about 10,000 ft AGL on average.

Given all that, with the 38000 ft (why do they use FEET over Oirope in an Oiropean AirBoos?)

above the "96 ft" it can only mean "OK, I have set it to go to 96 ft ASL", as I see it. Please enlighten.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 16:54

The advanced design tail rotor of the crashed helo

Did it have a tail rotor at all?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2015 17:49

Der spiegel reports he had depression and hid docs note to take a medical leave

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 18:03

But have they checked into the Peelot yet?
50% of all adults have depression. The rest are just too drunk to realize that they SHOULD be depressed - or are Australia fans b4 the Debacle Against NZ.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Mar 2015 18:32

QNH is Q-codes for barometric pressure readings adjusted for AMSL. SO ALT means here 96Ft above AMSL.

MCP/FMC is Mode Control Panel and Flight Management Computer which together controls Automatic Flight Director System (AFDS). So data is coming from MCP/FMC and is indicated when queried by S mode Radars along its flight path. Clearly AGL would be different and such a setting should result in a controlled flight into Terrain. While in landing mode QFE would be used which would indicate field elevation with reference to the airport.

Here is the video of New CDLS(Cockpit Door Locking System) on A320. In case of non-reply from Pilot Flying, emergency code can access the door unlocking. But code pad is locked for 5 minutes before it can be used for emergency situation. And if it is locked by means of latches from inside then there is no way to enter the cockpit. This means Pilot Flying had locked the latches from inside.Which is meant only for 7700 or Hijack situation. This code was never transmitted by PF of Germanwings despite ATC raising is. If pilot was unconscious then he would /could not have actively locked the door even from emergency access.

There is a report that Lubitz had burnout episode and took six months leave before returning to active duty. What transpired during six month or where he traveled is unknown as yet (to public). His travel details are not being shared. I hope he did not visit some of the hotspots for training.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Mar 2015 18:56

http://www.popsci.com/how-locking-mecha ... us-cockpit

Since 9/11, the aviation industry has made substantial changes to how a person can enter a cockpit. Specifically, Airbus--the manufacturer of the Germanwings-operated jetplane--modified their vehicles so the cockpit door remains locked at all times. If someone wants to enter the cockpit, such as a flight attendant, he or she must request access through an electronic communications system. The pilots can then open the door by flipping a switch to the unlock position.

But suppose, for a moment, that both the pilot and co-pilot became unconscious and couldn't open the cockpit door. In this scenario, a flight attendant can punch a code into a keypad outside the door, alerting the crew inside that it's about to unlock in the next 30 seconds or so. During this time anyone inside the cockpit can override the unlock function. “The locking devices on the latest planes can override that code assuming a hijacker found out the code,” Vernon Grose, a former investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board and former scientist for the Federal Aviation Administration, tells Popular Science.

This override feature has aviation experts suspecting the Germanwings co-pilot crashed the plane on purpose. Presumably, the locked-out pilot would have entered the unlock code into the keypad to get back inside the cockpit. And, barring a malfunction with keypad override, the door should have opened after roughly half a minute. Given that both a malfunction and a co-pilot medical emergency happening at the same time seems highly unlikely, an intentional act on the part of the co-pilot is, at this point, the most likely explanation.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Mar 2015 20:12

http://www.tpnn.com/2015/03/27/breaking ... m-convert/

BREAKING: Germanwings Co-Pilot Was Muslim Convert

Not sure if this newsitem is really true. Tea Party News Network? How reliable are they?? No idea.

Emerging evidence indicates that the 28 year old copilot who crashed a Germanwings flight this week had converted to Islam, and had stayed at the same mosque which radicalized Mohammed Atta from the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center.

Police have reportedly found an “item of significance” at the apartment of Andreas Lubitz, the First Officer who crashed the Germanwing passenger plane into the Alps. The item was NOT a suicide note.

In the six-month break during his training as a pilot at Germanwings, Lubitz reportedly converted to Islam and subsequently decided to carry out the mass murder. It is not known whether he did so by order of extremist Muslims or on his own accord. As the convert stayed often at a radical mosque in Bremen, which is at the center of the investigation, he may have received his instructions directly from members of the immediate Muslim community.

Converts are considered to be a most important weapon of Islam, as their backgrounds do not suggest that they are violent.

Pamela Geller, a prominent American anti-jihadist, captured images and comments from Lubitz’s Facebook page, which has since been taken down.

lubitz-facebook-muslim-page

Another Facebook page has also been set up, entitled “Support for Andrew Lubitz, hero of the Islamic State.”

Undoubtedly, the left will categorize this murderous act as an episode of “workplace violence” or as a result of the actions of a “mentally unstable” individual.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 27 Mar 2015 20:16

some folks are saying that the dead pilot in the cockpit was a recent convert to islam. some sites in germany/europe have surfaced. wonder if this a cop out and blame it on the usual. is there any another reason.

teetar source.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2015 20:20

Seems like BA took beef off domestic flights. Price could have been the reason, though they ascribe it to 'religious concerns'.

British Airways takes beef off the menu to avoid offending Hindus

Price could have been the only reason. I don't know of any Hindu groups which might have lobbied to have taken Beef off the menu. Beef + Rising Oil would have hit margins. And the Hindu groups have been made the fall guy.

You guys/gals need to read the story about the Indian-origin restaurant owner who has been arrested and charged with manslaughter after a customer died after eating a curry with peanuts in it - and start a Petishun against the racist British Prosecutors

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Mar 2015 02:50

chaanakya wrote:http://www.tpnn.com/2015/03/27/breaking ... m-convert/

That scenario is highly unlikely (also tea party has been hijacked by numb-nuts). He would have chosen to crash at some politically significant place to make a statement, and not crashed on remote mountains.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Mar 2015 06:35

Guys: Think about it. If the co-peelot wanted to commit soosai, WHY set auto-peelot and take 8 minutes? Risk the Peelot managing to break the door with an axe?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Mar 2015 07:02

UlanBatori wrote:Guys: Think about it. If the co-peelot wanted to commit soosai, WHY set auto-peelot and take 8 minutes? Risk the Peelot managing to break the door with an axe?

per reports, he continued breathing normally till the end. Is this possible for a guy who is able to see his fast approaching death through the cockpit window?? No increased/shallow respiration or labored breathing??

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Mar 2015 07:48

Exactly. The guy was unconscious. It is incredible that they haven't gone and searched the Captain's home (or have they?)

IMO, the situation may be much worse. Here is a CT 4 u. Suppose someone has discovered that it is possible to hack into the flight control system of an airliner, and take over the controls. It is reasonably sure that this has been possible for sometime, after 9/11. Suppose the security of this system has been breached.

Now think about the 4 unexplained crashes of AirBooses and one MH-70 (disappearance). Suppose someone tried out the process on MH-70 and the others in a way that nothing would show. On the Airbooses, the wreckage was seen, at least partially. MH70 disappeared entirely, Now they did it pretty explicitly, out in the open.

What are the guvrmands 2 do? Announce that any airliner can be taken out of the sky, using commands from the ground? Trigger panic?

This is the best explanation I can see for blaming the poor co-pilot (and eventually the pilot when they see the folly of the "autopilot, with murdered/suicider breathing normally). Planes are being hacked into and dragged down to crash- and the have no idea who.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2015 08:21

Pakrats trying new tricks...

Indian airlines have warned crew members to be on their guard, citing an alleged incident on board a recent international flight where there was a suspicious attempt to gain access to the …

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 31363.aspx

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2015 08:25

N3, and who has access to satellites to pipe these commands to inflight ac? Could this not be backtraced if such were the case.

Every govt on earth would be sending kill teams after anyone involved in such activity.no Queesberry rules.