shravan wrote:US Senate votes to triple aid to Pakistan
In'nt this like a gambler doubling his bets to cover the odds?
Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
In'nt this like a gambler doubling his bets to cover the odds?
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Reversing 800 years of history ( not that we dont know ,but many Baki Gem/Coal here)
Ayaz Amir
All the great Muslim rulers of our past whom we look upon as our heroes were either Turks or Afghans, from Mahmud Ghaznavi to the last of the Mughals -- Caucasians all of them, who, in successive waves of invasion and conquest from the colder climates of the north, made themselves masters of Hindustan.
For 800 years -- from 1192 AD. when Muhammad Ghori defeated Prithviraj Chauhan in the second battle of Tarain (in present-day Haryana) to the establishment of British rule in Bengal in the 18th century -- every ruler of Hindustan of any note or merit was of Caucasian origin. In all this vast expanse of history, the lands which now constitute Pakistan could produce only one ruler of indigenous origin who could lay claim to any ability: Ranjit Singh, Maharajah of Punjab. We, the inhabitants of Pakistan, may claim in moments of (misplaced) exaltation that we are descended from those early warriors. But this is a false claim. We are now more sub-continental than Central Asian. Just as empires and nations rise and fall, races too do not remain the same over time. The Mughals were a hardy people when they marched into India under Babar. After 200 years of unbroken rule their dynasty -- descended from the great Taimur -- had become degenerate and soft.
We may name our missiles Ghori and Abdali -- although Abdali is somewhat inappropriate, considering that Ahmed Shah Abdali in his repeated invasions brought much suffering to Punjab -- but this is a throwback to a past far removed from our present. Comfortable thought or not, Ranjit Singh's kingdom of Punjab is more relevant to our present-day conditions than those distant days of glory and conquest.
The challenge thus posed is a daunting one. For 800 years we have produced no ruler of native ability. But if Pakistan is to come into its own, if it is to throw off the mantle of failure of the past 60 years and forge a new future for itself, then its native sons and daughters have to create something new: capacity and ability where none have existed before -- except in the solitary example of the one-eyed king of Lahore, Maharajah Ranjit Singh.
We are going to get no infusion of fresh blood from beyond the high mountains. No Ghaznavi or Ghori is coming to rescue us or establish a new kingdom. We are on our own. It is for us to make something of Pakistan or disfigure it. The kingdom of heaven is here; redemption is here; salvation is here.
The very enormity of this challenge should teach us some tolerance. We expect miracles from our rulers -- the Ayub Khans, the Yahya Khans, the Ishaq Khans, the Zardaris, the Gilanis and no doubt the Sharifs -- without pausing to reflect that what we expect from them is nothing less than a reversal of history. We expect them to be the heralds of a miracle: the creation and expression of native talent and ability.
Not that it can't be done or will never happen. But at least we should be aware of the extent of the challenge. We have to create something wholly new, something which in Punjab, the Frontier, Balochistan, Sindh, has not existed except in the dim annals of pre-history. There may have been native rulers of ability in times past but we know little of them and even if they did exist they did so before the advent of Muslim rule in India.
And even if we pride ourselves on our Muslim past, let us not forget that by the time the British arrived in India and set about establishing their empire, the Muslims of the sub-continent had declined to an inferior position. They were no longer a master race. So much so, that they were reduced to demanding from the British special safeguards, such as separate electorates, to protect their status and position. Consider the irony of this. Once the Muslims, a tiny minority, had ruled India. Now they were afraid -- or their leading lights were afraid -- that they would be swamped by the Hindu majority, fearful that in a united India what they considered to be their just rights would be denied them, that they would not be able to hold their heads above the water.
This philosophy of fear -- and there is no point in denying that it was that -- was dictated by circumstances. After Ottoman defeat in the First World War, Turkish nationalism found expression in the idea of a Turkish republic confined to the Turkish heartland: the Anatolian plateau. The idea of empire was no longer feasible. Mustafa Kemal realised this, his vision clearer and sharper than most of his countrymen. In India, Muslim nationalism found expression in the idea of Pakistan. Jinnah's greatness lay in helping achieve this idea.
But there was one vital difference between Turkey and Pakistan. The Anatolian plateau was the solid centre of the Ottoman Empire, what the Turks called their true home. The centre of the Muslim empire throughout the 800 years of Muslim dominance in India was central India, around Delhi. But Indian partition and the birth of Pakistan meant retreating from this centre and creating a new nexus of existence on the western and eastern marches of the sub-continent. Pakistan thus arose on what used to be not the centre but the peripheries of Muslim power in India. This was a new challenge: of creating a new locus of existence where none had existed before. Muslim kingdoms had existed in South India. They had of course existed in North India. But there had never been an independent Muslim kingdom in the areas now constituting Pakistan. And, to repeat the point made earlier, there was in Pakistan no tradition of outstanding native ability: no native ruler of Multan or Lahore, Peshawar or Bannu, Hyderabad or Thatta, Quetta or Kalat, who could be cited as some kind of a role model.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=199842
Ayaz Amir
All the great Muslim rulers of our past whom we look upon as our heroes were either Turks or Afghans, from Mahmud Ghaznavi to the last of the Mughals -- Caucasians all of them, who, in successive waves of invasion and conquest from the colder climates of the north, made themselves masters of Hindustan.
For 800 years -- from 1192 AD. when Muhammad Ghori defeated Prithviraj Chauhan in the second battle of Tarain (in present-day Haryana) to the establishment of British rule in Bengal in the 18th century -- every ruler of Hindustan of any note or merit was of Caucasian origin. In all this vast expanse of history, the lands which now constitute Pakistan could produce only one ruler of indigenous origin who could lay claim to any ability: Ranjit Singh, Maharajah of Punjab. We, the inhabitants of Pakistan, may claim in moments of (misplaced) exaltation that we are descended from those early warriors. But this is a false claim. We are now more sub-continental than Central Asian. Just as empires and nations rise and fall, races too do not remain the same over time. The Mughals were a hardy people when they marched into India under Babar. After 200 years of unbroken rule their dynasty -- descended from the great Taimur -- had become degenerate and soft.
We may name our missiles Ghori and Abdali -- although Abdali is somewhat inappropriate, considering that Ahmed Shah Abdali in his repeated invasions brought much suffering to Punjab -- but this is a throwback to a past far removed from our present. Comfortable thought or not, Ranjit Singh's kingdom of Punjab is more relevant to our present-day conditions than those distant days of glory and conquest.
The challenge thus posed is a daunting one. For 800 years we have produced no ruler of native ability. But if Pakistan is to come into its own, if it is to throw off the mantle of failure of the past 60 years and forge a new future for itself, then its native sons and daughters have to create something new: capacity and ability where none have existed before -- except in the solitary example of the one-eyed king of Lahore, Maharajah Ranjit Singh.
We are going to get no infusion of fresh blood from beyond the high mountains. No Ghaznavi or Ghori is coming to rescue us or establish a new kingdom. We are on our own. It is for us to make something of Pakistan or disfigure it. The kingdom of heaven is here; redemption is here; salvation is here.
The very enormity of this challenge should teach us some tolerance. We expect miracles from our rulers -- the Ayub Khans, the Yahya Khans, the Ishaq Khans, the Zardaris, the Gilanis and no doubt the Sharifs -- without pausing to reflect that what we expect from them is nothing less than a reversal of history. We expect them to be the heralds of a miracle: the creation and expression of native talent and ability.
Not that it can't be done or will never happen. But at least we should be aware of the extent of the challenge. We have to create something wholly new, something which in Punjab, the Frontier, Balochistan, Sindh, has not existed except in the dim annals of pre-history. There may have been native rulers of ability in times past but we know little of them and even if they did exist they did so before the advent of Muslim rule in India.
And even if we pride ourselves on our Muslim past, let us not forget that by the time the British arrived in India and set about establishing their empire, the Muslims of the sub-continent had declined to an inferior position. They were no longer a master race. So much so, that they were reduced to demanding from the British special safeguards, such as separate electorates, to protect their status and position. Consider the irony of this. Once the Muslims, a tiny minority, had ruled India. Now they were afraid -- or their leading lights were afraid -- that they would be swamped by the Hindu majority, fearful that in a united India what they considered to be their just rights would be denied them, that they would not be able to hold their heads above the water.
This philosophy of fear -- and there is no point in denying that it was that -- was dictated by circumstances. After Ottoman defeat in the First World War, Turkish nationalism found expression in the idea of a Turkish republic confined to the Turkish heartland: the Anatolian plateau. The idea of empire was no longer feasible. Mustafa Kemal realised this, his vision clearer and sharper than most of his countrymen. In India, Muslim nationalism found expression in the idea of Pakistan. Jinnah's greatness lay in helping achieve this idea.
But there was one vital difference between Turkey and Pakistan. The Anatolian plateau was the solid centre of the Ottoman Empire, what the Turks called their true home. The centre of the Muslim empire throughout the 800 years of Muslim dominance in India was central India, around Delhi. But Indian partition and the birth of Pakistan meant retreating from this centre and creating a new nexus of existence on the western and eastern marches of the sub-continent. Pakistan thus arose on what used to be not the centre but the peripheries of Muslim power in India. This was a new challenge: of creating a new locus of existence where none had existed before. Muslim kingdoms had existed in South India. They had of course existed in North India. But there had never been an independent Muslim kingdom in the areas now constituting Pakistan. And, to repeat the point made earlier, there was in Pakistan no tradition of outstanding native ability: no native ruler of Multan or Lahore, Peshawar or Bannu, Hyderabad or Thatta, Quetta or Kalat, who could be cited as some kind of a role model.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=199842
-
sanjaykumar
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 6570
- Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
I doubt if Euros consider any Muslims, even in Bosnia Caucasian,-certainly not Afghans, who maybe a bit lighter in colour than I Ass Gharib.
And the Muslim concern was not with safe gaurding universal franchise but avoiding retribution for their way of, in the popular Hindu/Sikh mind, terror.
And the Muslim concern was not with safe gaurding universal franchise but avoiding retribution for their way of, in the popular Hindu/Sikh mind, terror.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Editorial: Indian red rag in Afghanistan
As usual DT jihadi editorial full of threats.
As usual DT jihadi editorial full of threats.
Since Tajikistan is run by an Uzbek elite, the growing Indian presence in the regional neighbourhood is also seen as being backed by Russia. Farkhor is the first Indian military airbase overseas, and “is convenient for transportation of men and material to and from Afghanistan”. Pakistan can hardly respond adequately to this challenge except that it can resume the cross-border proxy war it had given up and make India pay a price for its checkmating move in Afghanistan.
The Indo-Pak normalisation of relations is also important because getting India to “rationalise” its presence in Afghanistan is going to be difficult for President Obama. As long as there are tensions between the two countries, the problem in Afghanistan is going to become more compounded. Pakistan can live with Uzbekistan and Iran wielding more clout in Kabul, but not with India staring down the Durand Line which is not even properly demarcated.
The ball is in India’s court. It must stop putting pre-conditions on the resumption of a dialogue with Pakistan. Also, the dialogue should come to grips with conflict resolution not just on the Eastern border but also on the Western border of Pakistan. The proxy wars must end
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Daily Times editorials have been echoing the civilian-side's thinking, especially that of Zardari in recent times (while Ejaz Haider articulates the Army's side through his Op-Eds). Earlier Zardari spoke of how India was not a threat and also about the NFU nuclear policy etc. The military intervened and Gilani said that these were the personal remarks of the President !! Anyway, in the last several weeks, especially after SeS, DT's editorials have been talking tough and Najam Sethi has been personally talking even tougher. From issuing veiled threats, these are becoming progressively open. While earlier DT took the line that Pakistan had enough reasons for insurgencies and terrorism within its precincts and no external stimulus was needed, it has completely changed tack in the last two months. Nowadays, it speaks of India and Pakistan at the same level in so far as sponsoring terror within the other country goes. We know that Pakistani media reflect 'official' thinking and are not independent, at least as far as India goes. The recent change in tack by DT therefore reflects a hardening official position pf Pakistan after SeS.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Anti-US Wave Imperilling Efforts in Pakistan - Washington Post
Duh! When were the Pakistani masses not anti US ? It goes a long way back. The US had close relationshp only with the rulers, and especially military rulers. The common masses always termed the US as the Great Satan, after receiving billions of dollars in aid.
Duh! When were the Pakistani masses not anti US ? It goes a long way back. The US had close relationshp only with the rulers, and especially military rulers. The common masses always termed the US as the Great Satan, after receiving billions of dollars in aid.
A new wave of anti-American sentiment in Pakistan has slowed the arrival of hundreds of U.S. civilian and military officials charged with implementing assistance programs, undermined cooperation in the fight against al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and put American lives at risk, according to officials from both countries.
In recent weeks, Pakistan has rejected as "incomplete" at least 180 U.S. government visa requests. Its own ambassador in Washington has criticized what he called a "blacklist" used by the Pakistani intelligence service to deny visas . . .
At the highest levels, bilateral cooperation is said to be running smoothly. . . .But just below the top, officials in Islamabad and Washington say, the relationship is fraught with mutual suspicion and is under pressure so extreme that it threatens cooperation against the insurgents.
One of the most vocal critics is security analyst and newspaper columnist Shireen Mazari, praised by supporters as a champion of Pakistan's independence. Patterson's Aug. 27 letter to Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman, head of the media group that owns the News newspaper and Geo Television, complained that Mazari's column and talk shows had made "wildly incorrect" charges that could endanger Americans' safety. In particular, Patterson objected to Mazari's "baseless and inaccurate allegation" that Washington-based Creative Associates International, a contractor for the U.S. Agency for International Development with offices in Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East, was a "CIA front-company." {Hence her columns stopped appearing}
In a telephone interview Sunday, Mazari said: "I definitely have concerns about the Americans' intentions here, especially that they would like to get access to our nuclear assets. The U.S. mind-set is suspicious of strong Muslim states, and there is a certain imperial arrogance in their behavior that Pakistanis like me don't like."
Many Pakistanis see the United States as the latest in a long line of usurpers. "It's like history repeating itself, from the time the East India Company came out here," Mazhar Salim, 52, a phone-booth operator in Islamabad, said last weekend. "We are a Muslim country, and the non-Muslim world, the Americans and the Jews and the Indians, are all threatened by our civilization."
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
What is troubling to me is that my informed hunch is priving to be trueSSridhar wrote:Daily Times editorials have been echoing the civilian-side's thinking, especially that of Zardari in recent times (while Ejaz Haider articulates the Army's side through his Op-Eds). Earlier Zardari spoke of how India was not a threat and also about the NFU nuclear policy etc. The military intervened and Gilani said that these were the personal remarks of the President !! Anyway, in the last several weeks, especially after SeS, DT's editorials have been talking tough and Najam Sethi has been personally talking even tougher. From issuing veiled threats, these are becoming progressively open. While earlier DT took the line that Pakistan had enough reasons for insurgencies and terrorism within its precincts and no external stimulus was needed, it has completely changed tack in the last two months. Nowadays, it speaks of India and Pakistan at the same level in so far as sponsoring terror within the other country goes. We know that Pakistani media reflect 'official' thinking and are not independent, at least as far as India goes. The recent change in tack by DT therefore reflects a hardening official position pf Pakistan after SeS.
, namley, that the marked reduction of suicude attacks in J&K, I mean not the occasional one, but the relentless LeT/Jiash attacks that would consume our brave, precious, valuable junior officers/jawans on a a dialy basis, was just tactical move by TSP. And contrary to what many believed, this was not due to LoC fencing or Indian army's efforts. TSP's game plan was to see if their move would fetch them "serious Kashmir talks": which means TSP/APHC on the one side making demands, and India having to acquiesce on the other, and US controlling the game remotely. This reached a serious pitch after 26/11. And now the threats, as you point out, are increasingly brazen. Moral of the story: TSP has not a paid a price for its diabolical terror stratgey and is attempting to cash its terror cheque. And to me the even more worrying factor is their equal equal on terror which will increasingly gain curreny in DC/London as the white boys' loss in Afganisthan continues to mount. So the easy argument, simple falsehood will hit western airwaves, namely, these bloody Hindus (India) and Muslims (TSP) are at each other's throats, and that is hamering our (west) noble cause in defeating "terrorism" and brigning "peace" and "security" to the world .Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
I agree with you 100%. From an Indian PoV, USA's actions are diabolical to say the least, but if you look at it from the PoV of how empires down the ages have conducted themslevs, one can make the argument that US empire has been benignchandrabhan wrote:One thing I must give credit to Americans is that they are convinced that they are the force of good in this world. They are convinced that they do the world a service by maintaining the balance and arbiter in issues of global as well as local significance.
I must grudgingly admit that they largely have been able to maintain the facade of prevalence of justice around the world(Whatever their ulterior motive may have been eventually). We , In India, have seen the Ugly side(encouragement to TSPA) as well as the gentler side(Sending Shiploads of wheat on christmas, Weapons to fight the Chinese in 1962). Why I say this? Well Imagine the world under the hegemon of Chincoms !!!! The hans will be a bigger evil than the these known racists. They will take out their centuries old frustration on the neighbours as well as rest of the world.
I have no love for Khanate but I have great suspicion of these Communists who recognize one particular day as the national humiliation day' . Nobama, i had predicted will be a disaster for the world and India in particular. He is pure glib, loads of gas and no substance. He shd be a preacher, professor and that's it.
.Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Agreed.CRamS wrote:And to me the even more worrying factor is their equal equal on terror which will increasingly gain curreny in DC/London as the white boys' loss in Afganisthan continues to mount. So the easy argument, simple falsehood will hit western airwaves,. . .
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
In April-May we were laughing our a$$es off here on BRF looking at the mess TSP had created for itself. Even dreaming about its breakup. Once again, as usual, India has frittered away the advantages with brilliant self goals post 26/11 and SeS. Now TSP has survived the crisis once again by hook and crook. They are back to 'demanding' uncondtional talks from India even after committing horrendous atrocities like 26/11. There is zilch, zero, nada response from India, leave alone a credible deterrence. I am expecting more audacious demands from RAPE and TSPA in coming days since they have no price to pay and everything to gain given India's response.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
That is juicy report. I am sure he was on vacation or AWOL from PA, while indulging in his roles. This was a SOP for the British, many a British army men went on extended leaves or AWOL on interesting escapades. One such went missing from his British army job to help Brazil. Then a few years later went missing in the mediterranean to help the local fighters there. Syed Barelvi & many British employees went on extended leaves to go to Pathan lands to fight the Sikhs during Ranjit Singh's time.
PA learned from the British very well.
PA learned from the British very well.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Mercenary duty was always the part of the British army. EIC soldiers were mercenariessurinder wrote:That is juicy report. I am sure he was on vacation or AWOL from PA, while indulging in his roles. This was a SOP for the British, many a British army men went on extended leaves or AWOL on interesting escapades. One such went missing from his British army job to help Brazil. Then a few years later went missing in the mediterranean to help the local fighters there. Syed Barelvi & many British employees went on extended leaves to go to Pathan lands to fight the Sikhs during Ranjit Singh's time.
PA learned from the British very well.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Among the comments posted for this article..
Posted by Rhyno327 at September 22, 2009 7:54 AM ET:
Well, its really obvious some members of the PAK military, thier ISI are helping our enemies. No more troops to a-stan. Instead, bomb the places in P-stan those cowards hide, with thye help of our PAK "friends"...and we are scheduled to give them 7 BILLION more soon. The problem is in PAKISTAN. No more $$, this is ground zero for islamic fundamentalism. Keep up the air strikes, no matter wat they say.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Terror’s Training Ground
Newsline cover story by Ayesha Siddiqa
Newsline cover story by Ayesha Siddiqa
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
SSridhar,
Also remember, if it needs any emphasis that is, that TSP will dance in perfect synch with western music. They will keep sounding conciliatory, do whatever the west asks it to do, and keep taunting India with calls for "unconditional talks". result, its the bad bad "Hindu nationalists" that are thwarting USA's noble mission on Af-Pak.
Dlibu:
I never took TSP's so called messy situation seriously. About the only times I felt TSP might be vulnerable, but each time, India simnply did not have the wherewithal to exploit the opportunities include:
1) Soon after 9/11, when I hoped USA would form a an alliance with India to go after Isalmic terrorists including those in TSP
2) The Nove 2005 devastating earthquake
3) The murder of Bhutto.
4) TSP's nuke proliferation
But all this "Talibunnies within 80 miloes of Islamabad", "Al queda getting hold of TSP nukes" yada yada was just hot air. But you are right, TSP has survived, and survived big. Short of forcing them to do so, they are not going to back down on their brazen demands. But I am not so sure they will resume terror at full throttle. Reason bein g they have the white boys on their side, and they will make utomost use of that alliance to wrest whatever they can from India nstead of spoiling it through brazen attacks (not that west would care, but that would detract TSP from making its demands).
Also remember, if it needs any emphasis that is, that TSP will dance in perfect synch with western music. They will keep sounding conciliatory, do whatever the west asks it to do, and keep taunting India with calls for "unconditional talks". result, its the bad bad "Hindu nationalists" that are thwarting USA's noble mission on Af-Pak.
Dlibu:
I never took TSP's so called messy situation seriously. About the only times I felt TSP might be vulnerable, but each time, India simnply did not have the wherewithal to exploit the opportunities include:
1) Soon after 9/11, when I hoped USA would form a an alliance with India to go after Isalmic terrorists including those in TSP
2) The Nove 2005 devastating earthquake
3) The murder of Bhutto.
4) TSP's nuke proliferation
But all this "Talibunnies within 80 miloes of Islamabad", "Al queda getting hold of TSP nukes" yada yada was just hot air. But you are right, TSP has survived, and survived big. Short of forcing them to do so, they are not going to back down on their brazen demands. But I am not so sure they will resume terror at full throttle. Reason bein g they have the white boys on their side, and they will make utomost use of that alliance to wrest whatever they can from India nstead of spoiling it through brazen attacks (not that west would care, but that would detract TSP from making its demands).
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Terror is only one way to get their demands met. Now as you said the alliance with white boys aka GUBO masters will be used to achieve the goals. My point was that India does not appear to have any say or response in these matters. If there is a reduction in terror or a change in tactics from TSP, it is because of its own will. There is no Indian influence in the whole equation. India is like a passive observer to the whole event even while it is India citizens and property that are being targeted.But I am not so sure they will resume terror at full throttle. Reason bein g they have the white boys on their side, and they will make utomost use of that alliance to wrest whatever they can from India nstead of spoiling it through brazen attacks (not that west would care, but that would detract TSP from making its demands).
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
SSridhar wrote:Daily Times editorials have been echoing the civilian-side's thinking, especially that of Zardari in recent times (while Ejaz Haider articulates the Army's side through his Op-Eds). Earlier Zardari spoke of how India was not a threat and also about the NFU nuclear policy etc. The military intervened and Gilani said that these were the personal remarks of the President !! Anyway, in the last several weeks, especially after SeS, DT's editorials have been talking tough and Najam Sethi has been personally talking even tougher. From issuing veiled threats, these are becoming progressively open. While earlier DT took the line that Pakistan had enough reasons for insurgencies and terrorism within its precincts and no external stimulus was needed, it has completely changed tack in the last two months. Nowadays, it speaks of India and Pakistan at the same level in so far as sponsoring terror within the other country goes. We know that Pakistani media reflect 'official' thinking and are not independent, at least as far as India goes. The recent change in tack by DT therefore reflects a hardening official position pf Pakistan after SeS.
SSridhar you should publish this as an op-ed. Or minimum create blog to archive these gems.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
TFT: Pls delete if already posted
Interesting analysis
We hear Hubby has asked all and sundry in his office and beyond to make sure that Asfandyar Wali Khan, leader of the Awami National Party, gets the highest protocol after him, and that everywhere he is accorded the same respect that is the due of the highest in the land. In his dealings with the international community, Hubby makes sure that Mr Khan is as high profile as himself and is given the same degree of importance. A few days ago, an influential Western commentator said off the record that Hubby is “the first horizontal player in Pakistan’s recent history, building broad alliances across the political spectrum”. He went on to say that Mush and even The Man of Steel are both “vertical” players, relying on their own innate strength and support, and building “monoliths of power”. Interesting analysis.
Aur line cut gayee
As we know, Mush is touring the US, delivering lectures and taking part in seminars at various universities and think tanks. He is paid handsomely for his talks, and travels in luxury with his entourage. Our mole informs us that an aide of Mush’s called up one particular university in the US, a great centre of excellence, with a renowned school of South Asian studies and said that the former president would like to come and deliver a lecture at the place. The administration asked how much he would charge for it. Mush’s aide quoted US $ 150,000. At that point, the admin guy didn’t discuss the matter further for one more second. He simply put the phone down. Aur line cut gayee.
From the coffers
It has now emerged that Mush doled out money generously from the coffers before his departure. This endless stream of funds apparently came from the treasure trove of the Invisible Soldiers Inc. Amongst the lucky recipients were MM (Rs 8 crore), a lady who still tows the Qing’s party line in the Assembly and on TV talk shows; HA beloved of the khakis who got a whopping Rs 10 crore and the Chories who received Rs 33 crore, besides a former Min of Inf who’s lucky draw was revealed on this page a few weeks ago. Who says Pakistan is a poor country?
Interesting analysis
We hear Hubby has asked all and sundry in his office and beyond to make sure that Asfandyar Wali Khan, leader of the Awami National Party, gets the highest protocol after him, and that everywhere he is accorded the same respect that is the due of the highest in the land. In his dealings with the international community, Hubby makes sure that Mr Khan is as high profile as himself and is given the same degree of importance. A few days ago, an influential Western commentator said off the record that Hubby is “the first horizontal player in Pakistan’s recent history, building broad alliances across the political spectrum”. He went on to say that Mush and even The Man of Steel are both “vertical” players, relying on their own innate strength and support, and building “monoliths of power”. Interesting analysis.
Aur line cut gayee
As we know, Mush is touring the US, delivering lectures and taking part in seminars at various universities and think tanks. He is paid handsomely for his talks, and travels in luxury with his entourage. Our mole informs us that an aide of Mush’s called up one particular university in the US, a great centre of excellence, with a renowned school of South Asian studies and said that the former president would like to come and deliver a lecture at the place. The administration asked how much he would charge for it. Mush’s aide quoted US $ 150,000. At that point, the admin guy didn’t discuss the matter further for one more second. He simply put the phone down. Aur line cut gayee.
From the coffers
It has now emerged that Mush doled out money generously from the coffers before his departure. This endless stream of funds apparently came from the treasure trove of the Invisible Soldiers Inc. Amongst the lucky recipients were MM (Rs 8 crore), a lady who still tows the Qing’s party line in the Assembly and on TV talk shows; HA beloved of the khakis who got a whopping Rs 10 crore and the Chories who received Rs 33 crore, besides a former Min of Inf who’s lucky draw was revealed on this page a few weeks ago. Who says Pakistan is a poor country?
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
New York police challans Rehman Malik on traffic rules violation
NEW YORK: New York police has challanned interior minister A Rehman Malik on traffic rules violation despite his efforts for introducing him as interior minister of Pakistan.
He was on his way to hotel where President Asif Ali Zardari was staying in a limousine provided to him by the consulate. Limousine driver took a turn at Medicine Avenue where it is prohibited till 1800 hrs. Police intercepted them and the driver of the limousine told the police about the presence of interior minister. A Rehman Malik also introduced himself to police that he was interior minister of Pakistan. Policeman told law was equal for all in US.
He kept on sitting in the limousine helplessly unless the copy of challan was handed over by the police to driver.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Taking ideology out of education
AH Nayyar
Including the 'virtues' of jihad in school syllabi is surely an opening for the infusion of militant ideologies and the desensitising of our youth to the extreme brutalities being committed against human beings by the misguided jihadis
If there is one thing the new National Education Policy shows, it is that the PPP-led coalition government, like governments before it, is hopelessly pandering to the mullahs.
Apparently the policy was ready to be launched for some time – and without a chapter on Islamic education. However, the mullahs managed to put a foot in the door. The issue was taken up by a particular lobby which protested that unlike the previous education policy (NEP 1998-2010), the new draft was missing the ‘crucial’ chapter on Islamic education.
Sadly, the government succumbed to this pressure, and added the chapter. Thus, we now have a new policy that has no chapter on science education, or on the teaching of mathematics or languages, but a full chapter on Islamic education.
The most astonishing part of the added chapter is that it comes with a curriculum of Islamiat defined in the policy. No other subject gets this special treatment. The chapter, hence the policy, makes Islamiat a compulsory subject from class I up to class XII, and if one reads carefully, this condition could extend even to universities.
Most importantly, the new policy violates Pakistan’s constitutional provisions, exactly as the previous policy and curricula had done. While making the teaching of Islamiat compulsory from class I, it also says that classes I and II would have an integrated curriculum. An integrated curriculum by definition has all the subjects put together in one book, which means that Islamic Studies will also be a part of this one book scheme of studies. This implies that non-Muslim students in class I and II would be required to learn Islamic studies with the rest of children. This would violate Article 22(1) of the Constitution that says: “ No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instructions, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own .”
Introducing Islamic Studies through integrated curriculum was one of the ways in which Islamiat was imposed on minority students in the previous education policy and curriculum.
The Islamiat curriculum spelled out in the new policy also includes teaching students the virtues of jihad. It seems the ruling parties and the educational bureaucracy have not learnt anything from our previous experiences. They forget that similar provisions in the previous policy allowed curriculum designers to lay an undue emphasis on Islamic learning; that textbooks therefore included chapters on jihad that looked as if they were copied verbatim from the promotional literature of militant jihadi groups. For those who may not remember, let me refer them to the 2003 SDPI report on textbooks and curricula:http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm. Some readers may also recall the passionate debates held in our esteemed parliament in 2004 on whether Sura Anfal had more on jihad or Sura Tauba.
Including the ‘virtues’ of jihad in school syllabi is surely an opening for the infusion of militant ideologies and the desensitising of our youth to the extreme brutalities being committed against human beings by the misguided jihadis.
The new education policy also plans to employ well-qualified teachers to teach Islamiat and Arabic in schools. Given the Islamiat curriculum in the policy, it is easy to guess who these qualified teachers will be: graduates of madrassas, of course.It also says that in-service and pre-service training programmes in Islamiat and Arabic will be organised at teacher training institutions. This therefore is clearly a backdoor channel to extend the influence of mullahs, including their obscurantism, sectarianism and militancy, to public schools. If each school employs only one teacher for both Islamiat and Arabic, it will open up employment for nearly 250,000 madrassa trained mullahs in mainstream schools.
The policy additionally says: “Islamic teachings shall be made a part of teacher training curricula and the curricula of other training institutions. Arabic teachers preferably having the qualification as Qaris shall be appointed in such institutions.”
There are no institutions other than madrassas that produce certified Qaris. Hence this provision ensures the employment of madrassa graduates in teacher training institutions also. They are not likely to be just Qaris, but will come with the ideology that has ruined Pakistan, and against which the Pakistani armed forces are currently fighting at such a huge human cost.
But the more alarming part of the above provision is the phrase “…and the curricula of other training institutions”. The policy does not specify which ‘other institutions’ it has in mind. In the absence of any identification, this part could extend to all institutions, including universities. It could extend to, say, the MSc physics and chemistry curricula of universities, or to the curricula of engineering and medical colleges. We are left to wonder if this is not an underhanded way of creating such possibilities in the future.
Regarding madrassa education, the new policy seems oblivious to the failure of the Musharraf government in introducing school subjects in the madrassa curriculum. There is no reason why this scheme would work now if it did not work in the past. The policy makers seem unaware of an excellent proposal from the esteemed religious scholar Javed Ghamidi. Allama Ghamidi argues that madrassa education should be regarded as much a professional education as law, engineering, medicine, etc, and should be allowed after 10-12 years of mainstream schooling. If this concept is enforced, there would be no need for the futile mainstreaming our governments attempt again and again, or to pandering to mullahs.
Dr AH Nayyar used to teach physics at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, and is currently a research fellow at SDPI
AH Nayyar
Including the 'virtues' of jihad in school syllabi is surely an opening for the infusion of militant ideologies and the desensitising of our youth to the extreme brutalities being committed against human beings by the misguided jihadis
If there is one thing the new National Education Policy shows, it is that the PPP-led coalition government, like governments before it, is hopelessly pandering to the mullahs.
Apparently the policy was ready to be launched for some time – and without a chapter on Islamic education. However, the mullahs managed to put a foot in the door. The issue was taken up by a particular lobby which protested that unlike the previous education policy (NEP 1998-2010), the new draft was missing the ‘crucial’ chapter on Islamic education.
Sadly, the government succumbed to this pressure, and added the chapter. Thus, we now have a new policy that has no chapter on science education, or on the teaching of mathematics or languages, but a full chapter on Islamic education.
The most astonishing part of the added chapter is that it comes with a curriculum of Islamiat defined in the policy. No other subject gets this special treatment. The chapter, hence the policy, makes Islamiat a compulsory subject from class I up to class XII, and if one reads carefully, this condition could extend even to universities.
Most importantly, the new policy violates Pakistan’s constitutional provisions, exactly as the previous policy and curricula had done. While making the teaching of Islamiat compulsory from class I, it also says that classes I and II would have an integrated curriculum. An integrated curriculum by definition has all the subjects put together in one book, which means that Islamic Studies will also be a part of this one book scheme of studies. This implies that non-Muslim students in class I and II would be required to learn Islamic studies with the rest of children. This would violate Article 22(1) of the Constitution that says: “ No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instructions, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own .”
Introducing Islamic Studies through integrated curriculum was one of the ways in which Islamiat was imposed on minority students in the previous education policy and curriculum.
The Islamiat curriculum spelled out in the new policy also includes teaching students the virtues of jihad. It seems the ruling parties and the educational bureaucracy have not learnt anything from our previous experiences. They forget that similar provisions in the previous policy allowed curriculum designers to lay an undue emphasis on Islamic learning; that textbooks therefore included chapters on jihad that looked as if they were copied verbatim from the promotional literature of militant jihadi groups. For those who may not remember, let me refer them to the 2003 SDPI report on textbooks and curricula:http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm. Some readers may also recall the passionate debates held in our esteemed parliament in 2004 on whether Sura Anfal had more on jihad or Sura Tauba.
Including the ‘virtues’ of jihad in school syllabi is surely an opening for the infusion of militant ideologies and the desensitising of our youth to the extreme brutalities being committed against human beings by the misguided jihadis.
The new education policy also plans to employ well-qualified teachers to teach Islamiat and Arabic in schools. Given the Islamiat curriculum in the policy, it is easy to guess who these qualified teachers will be: graduates of madrassas, of course.It also says that in-service and pre-service training programmes in Islamiat and Arabic will be organised at teacher training institutions. This therefore is clearly a backdoor channel to extend the influence of mullahs, including their obscurantism, sectarianism and militancy, to public schools. If each school employs only one teacher for both Islamiat and Arabic, it will open up employment for nearly 250,000 madrassa trained mullahs in mainstream schools.
The policy additionally says: “Islamic teachings shall be made a part of teacher training curricula and the curricula of other training institutions. Arabic teachers preferably having the qualification as Qaris shall be appointed in such institutions.”
There are no institutions other than madrassas that produce certified Qaris. Hence this provision ensures the employment of madrassa graduates in teacher training institutions also. They are not likely to be just Qaris, but will come with the ideology that has ruined Pakistan, and against which the Pakistani armed forces are currently fighting at such a huge human cost.
But the more alarming part of the above provision is the phrase “…and the curricula of other training institutions”. The policy does not specify which ‘other institutions’ it has in mind. In the absence of any identification, this part could extend to all institutions, including universities. It could extend to, say, the MSc physics and chemistry curricula of universities, or to the curricula of engineering and medical colleges. We are left to wonder if this is not an underhanded way of creating such possibilities in the future.
Regarding madrassa education, the new policy seems oblivious to the failure of the Musharraf government in introducing school subjects in the madrassa curriculum. There is no reason why this scheme would work now if it did not work in the past. The policy makers seem unaware of an excellent proposal from the esteemed religious scholar Javed Ghamidi. Allama Ghamidi argues that madrassa education should be regarded as much a professional education as law, engineering, medicine, etc, and should be allowed after 10-12 years of mainstream schooling. If this concept is enforced, there would be no need for the futile mainstreaming our governments attempt again and again, or to pandering to mullahs.
Dr AH Nayyar used to teach physics at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, and is currently a research fellow at SDPI
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Unholy alliances: religion and Pakistani nationalism
Mehreen Zahra-Malik
The idea of nation needs to be determinedly unhinged from the idea of religion such that what it means to be a political subject,
a Pakistani, a citizen, must not be conflated with what it means
to be part of a particular religious community
Pakistan’s National Education Policy 2009 is out. Predictably, it has an entire chapter on Islamic education. Equally predictably, the liberal intelligentsia is raising Cain.
When work on the policy began in 2005 during former General-President Pervez Musharraf’s tenure, it was decided to insert suitable references to religion in the preamble and be done with it. The Pakistan People’s Party government, which has put out the finished policy, however decided, most say under pressure, to add the fourth chapter on Islam and compulsory Islamic education.
Why has religion found its way into Pakistan’s several education policies and curriculum development efforts over the years?
The Right says because Pakistan was begot as an Islamic state. Nonsense, say the liberals and point to Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s speech to the Constituent Assembly on August 11, 1947: “You may belong to any religion or caste or creed,” he said, “that has nothing to do with the business of the State.”
The debate is unending and in recent years, because of internal threat from extremist Islamist elements, has acquired a new urgency. This urgency has also given the liberal enclave the space to argue that we need to take the ‘Islamic’ out of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. But the question is: can that be done in a deeply conservative society? Can we wipe the slate clean?
Separating mosque from state when people don’t agree to such a distinction would be an exercise in administrative-bureaucratic control but would not resolve the fundamental dilemma: that the state itself, over four decades, has helped create a mindset and, ironically, for reasons of nationalism. The debate therefore cannot eschew the question of how we have tried to evolve this nationalism. Critics identify the religion factor repeatedly as a fundamental, standalone problem while ignoring, for the most part, the relationship the state has tried to develop between religion and nation; how it has consistently used religion as an instrument of national cohesion. If there was ever a case of the obvious becoming the obscure, this is it.
Why religion and nationalism are such easy bedfellows may be explained through what they have in common: a focus on an imagined community; reliance on the importance of symbols to provide shared meaning to members; concern with territory (though this aspect has to be qualified when we are dealing with Islam); a belief system to assist members in navigating a complex world; and so on.
That be as it may, how did nationalism become the albatross around our neck?
When Europe moved from an agrarian to an industrialised society in the 17th to 18th-centuries, to a large extent, a shared culture, a shared language and shared education, became a statewide necessity. The need for a literate population and explicit, reasonable and precise communication fuelled the development of an education system. That system was grounded in the idea of the separation of church and state, another development that in fact preceded the idea of the nation-state itself. To that extent, Europe became secular even before it developed nation-states.
In Pakistan, as in several other parts of the world, the trajectory is different. Like most post-colonial states, Pakistan is still more a state-nation than a nation-state. Hence the state’s emphasis, instead of increased levels of literacy and technical competence, is on religion as the primary marker of nationalism. Religious nationalism is the baseline and the standard medium of communication we have developed; the common conceptual currency required of members of society if they are to enjoy full and effective moral citizenship. And the national education system is one of the tools through which the state has tried to establish this standardised medium.
But if it is accepted that religion has been used for cementing national identity, then we have to examine whether the state has used religion for nation-building, a secular project, by keeping religion subservient to the nation-state or allowed religion, wittingly or unwittingly, to penetrate the political, social and economic spaces and thereby dominate the state.
In Pakistan’s case, it is the latter. The problem is, religion once unleashed in the public sphere, by its very all-encompassing nature, refuses to submit to any higher authority including, in this case, the state. And where Islam is concerned, which has not undergone the kind of deconstruction that Christianity has, the faithful do not accept the modern boundaries of a nation-state. Shared belief in this case exceeds territoriality.
The state says it is now embarked on a policy of making religion a private affair; but then there is this chapter in the National Education Policy that envisages Islamic education as the “duty of state and society”.
The bottom line is that years of using Islam instrumentally has taken roots in various sections of state and society and changing attitudes is a daunting task. Indeed, the problem today is that religious nationalism has moved from the margins of society to centre stage. And the state, which was decisive in ensuring this movement, is now the victim of its own ill-thought policy.
Education policy and curriculum development are among the many mechanisms through which knowledge is socially distributed and culturally validated. The crucial role that religion has played, through public education, and continues to, in forming the consciousness of the political subject in Pakistan and in the construction of the nation state itself, is a big piece of the problem. The specific experience of education at the public school can offer clues into the ways in which the state is responsible for creating fixed, unalterable identities and drawing clear, exclusivist boundaries to define selfhood, citizenship, nationhood, and community.
The state’s ‘instrumental pious nationalism’ is costing us heavily. It is not news that this equation of religious and national identity has alienated Christians and other minorities in the country and led to violent outbreaks on various occasions. The contradictory, exclusionary nature of religious nationalism works precisely thus: in promoting a sense of community and belonging, it simultaneously breeds intolerance and hatred by creating internal moralities that give preference to those inside the religious national community. Religious nationalism also appears to be an obstacle to democracy. Indeed, when the political is viewed as a struggle between divine truth and sin, there may be little room for compromise.
It is time, then, for a radical reimagining of the nation-state in Pakistan: the idea of nation needs to be decisively unhinged from the idea of religion such that what it means to be a political subject, a Pakistani, a citizen, must not be conflated with what it means to be part of a particular religious community. Religious nationalism is dangerous particularly because it designates the phenomena of collective piety; tries to lay down the law on how to be together in a particular grouping in a way that is acceptable, and sanctified; and prescribes beliefs, symbols, and rituals that sacralise the national community and confer a transcendental purpose to the political process.
The sanctifying tendency in religious nationalism is what makes it dangerous and intractable: this contradictory tendency to place the nation above all else while also merging, and hence subordinating, it to a certain religious subjectivity.
The writer is News Editor of The Friday Times and pursuing a doctoral degree in the United States. She can be reached at [email protected]
Mehreen Zahra-Malik
The idea of nation needs to be determinedly unhinged from the idea of religion such that what it means to be a political subject,
a Pakistani, a citizen, must not be conflated with what it means
to be part of a particular religious community
Pakistan’s National Education Policy 2009 is out. Predictably, it has an entire chapter on Islamic education. Equally predictably, the liberal intelligentsia is raising Cain.
When work on the policy began in 2005 during former General-President Pervez Musharraf’s tenure, it was decided to insert suitable references to religion in the preamble and be done with it. The Pakistan People’s Party government, which has put out the finished policy, however decided, most say under pressure, to add the fourth chapter on Islam and compulsory Islamic education.
Why has religion found its way into Pakistan’s several education policies and curriculum development efforts over the years?
The Right says because Pakistan was begot as an Islamic state. Nonsense, say the liberals and point to Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s speech to the Constituent Assembly on August 11, 1947: “You may belong to any religion or caste or creed,” he said, “that has nothing to do with the business of the State.”
The debate is unending and in recent years, because of internal threat from extremist Islamist elements, has acquired a new urgency. This urgency has also given the liberal enclave the space to argue that we need to take the ‘Islamic’ out of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. But the question is: can that be done in a deeply conservative society? Can we wipe the slate clean?
Separating mosque from state when people don’t agree to such a distinction would be an exercise in administrative-bureaucratic control but would not resolve the fundamental dilemma: that the state itself, over four decades, has helped create a mindset and, ironically, for reasons of nationalism. The debate therefore cannot eschew the question of how we have tried to evolve this nationalism. Critics identify the religion factor repeatedly as a fundamental, standalone problem while ignoring, for the most part, the relationship the state has tried to develop between religion and nation; how it has consistently used religion as an instrument of national cohesion. If there was ever a case of the obvious becoming the obscure, this is it.
Why religion and nationalism are such easy bedfellows may be explained through what they have in common: a focus on an imagined community; reliance on the importance of symbols to provide shared meaning to members; concern with territory (though this aspect has to be qualified when we are dealing with Islam); a belief system to assist members in navigating a complex world; and so on.
That be as it may, how did nationalism become the albatross around our neck?
When Europe moved from an agrarian to an industrialised society in the 17th to 18th-centuries, to a large extent, a shared culture, a shared language and shared education, became a statewide necessity. The need for a literate population and explicit, reasonable and precise communication fuelled the development of an education system. That system was grounded in the idea of the separation of church and state, another development that in fact preceded the idea of the nation-state itself. To that extent, Europe became secular even before it developed nation-states.
In Pakistan, as in several other parts of the world, the trajectory is different. Like most post-colonial states, Pakistan is still more a state-nation than a nation-state. Hence the state’s emphasis, instead of increased levels of literacy and technical competence, is on religion as the primary marker of nationalism. Religious nationalism is the baseline and the standard medium of communication we have developed; the common conceptual currency required of members of society if they are to enjoy full and effective moral citizenship. And the national education system is one of the tools through which the state has tried to establish this standardised medium.
But if it is accepted that religion has been used for cementing national identity, then we have to examine whether the state has used religion for nation-building, a secular project, by keeping religion subservient to the nation-state or allowed religion, wittingly or unwittingly, to penetrate the political, social and economic spaces and thereby dominate the state.
In Pakistan’s case, it is the latter. The problem is, religion once unleashed in the public sphere, by its very all-encompassing nature, refuses to submit to any higher authority including, in this case, the state. And where Islam is concerned, which has not undergone the kind of deconstruction that Christianity has, the faithful do not accept the modern boundaries of a nation-state. Shared belief in this case exceeds territoriality.
The state says it is now embarked on a policy of making religion a private affair; but then there is this chapter in the National Education Policy that envisages Islamic education as the “duty of state and society”.
The bottom line is that years of using Islam instrumentally has taken roots in various sections of state and society and changing attitudes is a daunting task. Indeed, the problem today is that religious nationalism has moved from the margins of society to centre stage. And the state, which was decisive in ensuring this movement, is now the victim of its own ill-thought policy.
Education policy and curriculum development are among the many mechanisms through which knowledge is socially distributed and culturally validated. The crucial role that religion has played, through public education, and continues to, in forming the consciousness of the political subject in Pakistan and in the construction of the nation state itself, is a big piece of the problem. The specific experience of education at the public school can offer clues into the ways in which the state is responsible for creating fixed, unalterable identities and drawing clear, exclusivist boundaries to define selfhood, citizenship, nationhood, and community.
The state’s ‘instrumental pious nationalism’ is costing us heavily. It is not news that this equation of religious and national identity has alienated Christians and other minorities in the country and led to violent outbreaks on various occasions. The contradictory, exclusionary nature of religious nationalism works precisely thus: in promoting a sense of community and belonging, it simultaneously breeds intolerance and hatred by creating internal moralities that give preference to those inside the religious national community. Religious nationalism also appears to be an obstacle to democracy. Indeed, when the political is viewed as a struggle between divine truth and sin, there may be little room for compromise.
It is time, then, for a radical reimagining of the nation-state in Pakistan: the idea of nation needs to be decisively unhinged from the idea of religion such that what it means to be a political subject, a Pakistani, a citizen, must not be conflated with what it means to be part of a particular religious community. Religious nationalism is dangerous particularly because it designates the phenomena of collective piety; tries to lay down the law on how to be together in a particular grouping in a way that is acceptable, and sanctified; and prescribes beliefs, symbols, and rituals that sacralise the national community and confer a transcendental purpose to the political process.
The sanctifying tendency in religious nationalism is what makes it dangerous and intractable: this contradictory tendency to place the nation above all else while also merging, and hence subordinating, it to a certain religious subjectivity.
The writer is News Editor of The Friday Times and pursuing a doctoral degree in the United States. She can be reached at [email protected]
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Vivek_A saar please dont post entire articles. People have been banned due to copyright violation for doing this exact same thing before.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
FoDP sounds like a charity telethon, replaced by individuals with nations, taking pledges on behalf of Pakis.
FoDP dumps expected billions into WB basket
FoDP dumps expected billions into WB basket
FoDP turned itself into a political debating club for expressing support, minus of course the talk of the billions. Foreign Minister Qureshi had to explain to the media that the FoDP meeting was not about "pledges", although Mr Zardari had nothing else in mind except getting pledges of billions.
-
Amit Singh
- BRFite -Trainee
- Posts: 27
- Joined: 06 Jan 2009 21:59
- Location: UTC-8
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 058530.cms
Ahead of Indo-Pak Foreign Ministers meeting in New York, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today said India seeks to normalize relationship with Pakistan but it should shed its mindset of using terror as an instrument of state policy against New Delhi and take action against those involved in the Mumbai terror attacks.
He made it clear that there was no change in India's stand on Pakistan since the Sharm-el-Sheikh talks with his counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani, a position he has made clear in Parliament.
"India's message is that India seeks to normalise its relationship with Pakistan. But the only obstacle is that it should shed its old attitude of using terror as a state policy," Singh told a press conference winding up his two-day trip to Pittsburgh where he attended the G-20 Summit.
"We have supplied our material and evidence for them to carry out investigation. Although the tragedy took place in India, the conspiracy took place in Pakistan. Pakistan has admitted to this. We want them to bring to book the culprits involved in the November 26 attacks," he said.
Singh recollected that he has already said that if Pakistan took proper action India would move the extra mile to normalise relations.
The Prime Minister's comments come as Foreign Ministers of India and Pakistan are set to meet tomorrow during which Islamabad's action against terror emanating from its soil will be discussed.
Singh said India and Pakistan are neighbours and they have an obligation to move as neighbours.
Asked how he looked forward to moving ahead with the relations with Pakistan after the Sharm-el-Sheikh episode, Singh said "If you read my statements in Parliament, I have explained the Government's position and I think there is no change on this."
Asked about a report by US General Stean McChrystal that India was doing good work in Afghanistan but it could lead to instability in the region, he said: "I think to my knowledge there US and other European powers are appreciative of the role played by India in Afghanistan.
"We have not supplied any arms, we are also helping them in construction and financing of projects in power health and education sectors. Untill today we have committed USD 1.5 billion in Afghanistan.
"Not only people of Afghanistan is appreciate but Europe and American leaders are of the same view. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, I agree that we have to sail in these difficult waters," he said.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Yes, and not providing a link is another offense. I don't see the point of posting a page long article anyway when a link and a quote would be much cleaner.Dilbu wrote:Vivek_A saar please dont post entire articles. People have been banned due to copyright violation for doing this exact same thing before.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
The IEDology of Pakistan is very much alive. The first IED Mubarak post Eid :
Five killed in suspected suicide attack in Pakistan
Five killed in suspected suicide attack in Pakistan
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Guerrilla Warfare
My introduction to guerrilla warfare came early in my career, when I volunteered for a two-month stint in erstwhile East Pakistan, in early 1971. I got there in April and my stay kept getting extended until I was fortunate enough to return in late October, before I could become a guest of India!
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Admins: I think you should cut me some slack..Seeing as how this is TFT with no public links and seeing as how I'm the one who figured out the *****.
Last edited by Gerard on 26 Sep 2009 18:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Let *** not be mentioned
Reason: Let *** not be mentioned
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
It could well be the beginning of a more serious and concerted wave of suicide bombing that we have seen until March 2008 in Pakistan. It sort of tapered off, became sporadic and ineffective and confined itself to FATA in particular and Swat in general. With the recent vow by the Ustaad-e-Fidayeen, Qari Hussain Mehsud, that his chelas are itching for their 72+28, there is every possibility that the fireworks will reach the heartlands once again and with good frequency.arun wrote:The IEDology of Pakistan is very much alive. The first IED Mubarak post Eid :
Five killed in suspected suicide attack in Pakistan
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Begging with dignity
. . . the Pakistani delegation tried to paint as “payment” what the Americans would present simply as an act of generosity.
Not once in our sixty-two year existence have we survived without the assistance of foreign governments. In our sixty-second year, perhaps it’s time we came to terms with the reality that we are and have always been a nation of beggars.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
sirji,
**** is known to all and sundry. Every juma-din hundreds of nasty yindoos avail of the opportunity to enter.
Pointing to the right direction will suffice IMVHO.
**** is known to all and sundry. Every juma-din hundreds of nasty yindoos avail of the opportunity to enter.
Pointing to the right direction will suffice IMVHO.
-
Stan_Savljevic
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 3522
- Joined: 21 Apr 2006 15:40
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Copyright violations wrt pakistan and china ?! They steal our videos, products and identity and fake em. And have declared a total war on us, what kinda politically correct behavior are we following wrt pakistan and china. Let em sue us in the courts for copyright violation. We will lose sleep when the 26/11 dossiers get finally exchanged or the npt gets ratified {yawn}. Cmon adminullahs, why should we blindly follow "rules" when the opp party fails to behave like a human being? And then we whine when GoI follows rules?! 
?! They steal our videos, products and identity and fake em. And have declared a total war on us, what kinda politically correct behavior are we following wrt pakistan and china. Let em sue us in the courts for copyright violation. We will lose sleep when the 26/11 dossiers get finally exchanged or the npt gets ratified {yawn}. Cmon adminullahs, why should we blindly follow "rules" when the opp party fails to behave like a human being? And then we whine when GoI follows rules?! Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
From the Ilyas Kashmiri article:
We allowed Masood Azhar to enjoy Tihar. He not only got away after IC-814 but also radicalised Omar Sheikh and various other small time crooks like Asif Reza etc all of whom created(and are creating) havoc for India.
We never seem to learn. All the current IM members jailed for Delhi bombings etc are a ticking time bomb who will walk away in 5-6 years (like the Al-Ummah guys of Coimbatore) and then wreak more havoc.
WTF is our obsession with jailing hardcore pigs? How many times have we heard absolute scumbag hardcore terrorists completing a jail sentence and then resuming their activities or just escaping from jail.Ilyas Kashmiri created his own 313 Brigade in HuJI. He was once arrested by Indian Army from Poonch area of Indian held Kashmir along with Nasrullah Mansoor Langrial. He was imprisoned in different Indian jails for two years and finally he escaped from there after breaking the jail. His old friend Langrial is still imprisoned in India.
We allowed Masood Azhar to enjoy Tihar. He not only got away after IC-814 but also radicalised Omar Sheikh and various other small time crooks like Asif Reza etc all of whom created(and are creating) havoc for India.
We never seem to learn. All the current IM members jailed for Delhi bombings etc are a ticking time bomb who will walk away in 5-6 years (like the Al-Ummah guys of Coimbatore) and then wreak more havoc.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
^^
/sarcasm on/Tck tck.. these fanatic right wing yindoos will never learn. These 'miscreants' caught from cashmere and elsewhere have rights. They have to be presented in court as per constitution and dossiers have to be prepared. What will hooman rights people say? What will goras say? What will setalvads and burkhas say?
Anyway, bade bade deson mein aisi choti batein hote rehten hain./sarcasm off/
/sarcasm on/Tck tck.. these fanatic right wing yindoos will never learn. These 'miscreants' caught from cashmere and elsewhere have rights. They have to be presented in court as per constitution and dossiers have to be prepared. What will hooman rights people say? What will goras say? What will setalvads and burkhas say?
Anyway, bade bade deson mein aisi choti batein hote rehten hain./sarcasm off/
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
How we lost East Pakistan (from TFT)
Looking back on my stay in East Pakistan and all the events that followed, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that we treated them as our colony. We referred to them as “Bongos” or “Bingos”. I think we are genetically programmed to look down on the people of other provinces as a subhuman species and the people of East Pakistan came in for some special treatment. This delusion of superiority prevents us from reaching out to our poor and neglected brethren in other parts of the country and from looking at their point of view. Since we are incorrigible, we may yet come to grief again. {May Allah Taala grant you your wish sooner than later}
Song and dance were essential ingredients of the Bengali psyche. Dance and drama was a regular feature of their entertainment. They were reared on the inspiring content and lilting rhythms of Nazrul geeti (poems of Nazrul Islam) and the impassioned poetry of Tagore. This had a humanizing influence and made the Bengalis more civilized, cultured and gentle than their West Pakistani counterparts. These two opposing temperaments were irreconcilable and formed the basis of two entirely different perspectives on life and the world: one believing in physical prowess and the other highly emotional, and if wronged, then volatile. “The fault, dear Brutus, lay in us.”
We never treated the Bengalis as equals and the simmering discontent of the years turned into boiling rage in the twinkling of an eye. We brought out the worst in a cultured, intelligent, sensitive and highly emotional people. It was indeed an incredible feat. The land of dreams was turned into a wasteland in the bitter months of 1971. And by degrees, East Pakistan slipped out of our grasp. If at some future time, the heart of Pakistan is carved out, I am certain that the words “East Pakistan” shall be found inscribed on it.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Blast in Peshawar leaves four dead
ISLAMABAD: A huge explosion rocked Pakistan's main northwestern city of Peshawar on Saturday, police and residents said.
According to DawnNews, four people have been killed and at least 20 people have been injured. The police said that the wounded were taken to CMH and Lady Reading Hospital.
The car bomb blast took place near a private bank in Peshawar Cantt where several cars were also destroyed.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Selected NUGGETS (TFT)
‘Geedar’ and ‘sher’ journalists
Columnist Saleem Safi wrote in Jang that journalists in Pakistan are sher (lion) when they are criticising politicians but become geedar (jackal) when faced with the Taliban. Religious leaders too say nothing when the Taliban kill innocent people but sermonise against all governments.
Three shrouds for Rehman Malik
Daily Jang reported Interior Minister Rehman Malik as saying that he had been receiving a steady stream of threats against his life from the Taliban. He also disclosed that the Taliban had sent him shrouds to make him prepare for his death. So far he has received three shrouds.
Dr Mand’s miracle ‘murgha’
Pakistan’s top nuclear scientist Dr Samar Mubarak Mand was quoted by Abbas Athar in Express as telling an audience that once when he was in Kharan organising the nuclear test he found that Allah had put a miracle murgha (chicken) in the pot from where everyone was eating. After feeding 183 people the murgha was still crowding the pot. He had bought only five chickens. Columnist Athar Abbas thought Pakistan should have more degchi (pots) like this because they could produce nuclear bombs if they can produce endless chicken.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009
Today is seeing a robust demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan with both of the first two post Eid IED Mubaraks happening on the same day.
IED Mubaraks’ are certainly back with the proverbial bang in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
AP’s version of the Dawn article posted above by Tripathi identifying this bombing, like the previous one today at Bannu, as an IED Mubarak:
IED Mubaraks’ are certainly back with the proverbial bang in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
AP’s version of the Dawn article posted above by Tripathi identifying this bombing, like the previous one today at Bannu, as an IED Mubarak:
Police: 2nd bomb goes off in Pakistan's northwest
By Riaz Khan (AP) – 17 minutes ago
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Police say a car bomb has detonated in a commercial district in Pakistan's main northwestern city, killing four people and wounding dozens of others.
It was the second suicide car bombing to hit the restive region on Saturday. The Taliban has claimed responsibility for the first attack. ..................
AP via Google