I doubt it but even if there is 10%Some security analysts believe that the UN Commission’ report has provided enough lead to initiate criminal investigations to catch the planners, abettors, financiers and killers.
truth, it will be worth a read.http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/30/top12.htmBhutto, in a letter to Musharraf written on 16 October 2007, named four persons involved in an alleged plot to kill her: current Intelligence Bureau (IB) Chief Ijaz Shah, former chief minister of Punjab Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi, former chief minister of Sindh Arbab Ghulam Rahim, and the former ISI chief, Hamid Gul, as those who posed a threat to her life
My impression is that India's Research and Analysis Wing - the innocuous name given for India's CIA - would happily kill Mr. Saeed if it could. But getting assassins close enough to him would be a big problem. Look at what Israel had to go through to kill the Hamas official in the Gulf. And despite having a long arm and deep intelligence in Gaza, the Israelis couldn't nail him there. Plus the Israelis surround Gaza and keep it in lock-down. India cannot realistically reach Mr. Saeed.
The reason Israel's enemies hide is because they can be killed from the air at any time. The Israelis have advanced signal intelligence capability and an air force that has long practice in attacking urban targets with the minimum of collateral damage. Very often the Israelis target an individual vehicle. The long distances India must reach to attack Mr. Saeed is just one factor that makes the Israeli and Indian situations different. Israel has air supremacy over its adjacent neighbors and can do as it wants.
Another issue is that Israel from its birth has lived in mortal danger. It has of necessity acquired sophisticated skills needed to survive. The kind of terror LeT represents is something new to India, which is a huge country and a soft state. India's security ethos has traditionally been reactive, and the country's size enables it to absorb grievous blows which might easily destroy other countries. It is no coincidence that after after Prithvi Raj Chauhan dealt the Muslims a heavy defeat, the next time Hindu India won a war was one thousand years later. (The 1971 victory.)
Last, like it or not, the people we call Israeli are Europeans. Yes, a minority of Israelis are Arab. But the country was founded by Europeans, and Europeans to this day form the bulk of its immigrants. The Europeans are a lot more efficient at most things than are we South Asians.
Here's a small thing that might help in understanding India. I lived there from 1970-1990. Though I was born in pre-Independence India, I do not have a birth certificate. Until I purchased a motorcycle in 1984, I had not one single piece of identification except my passport, which obviously I never carried. Even after I got the motorcycle, I never carried the license. I did not even have a wallet, and simply carried my money in my pocket. In Delhi I didn't carry my house key wither. I left it on top the front door lintel, where anyone in the street or adjoining houses could see. I believe my situation was no different from 90% of the population. The relaxed nature of life in India is, of course, what made India an enormously appealing and pleasant place in which to live. In America, not a single person can escape being tracked several times a day. In the UK, because of their reliance on street cameras, it's a lot worse.
Before India can reach the level of Israel in matters of internal security, it has to undergo decades of learning to live in a security conscious environment. That applies also to the efficient and timely dispatch of India's enemies.
So only soosai abdul met his 72?Suppiah wrote:A minor IED Mubarak incident in Pisshour, not worth reporting, only 1 meets 72.
Some interesting points ... worth reading in full.
They’re coming — for good
Monday, April 19, 2010
Zafar Hilaly
America is returning to Pakistan not to merely visit, or hang around, but to roost. It plans to be involved up to its neck in Pakistan. And the involvement will be close, intense and hands-on. And, what is more, America has, as its willing partner, the Pakistani military under Gen Kayani.
The transformation of the relationship—from diffident allies to partners, from having a stake to co-ownership of Pakistan’s future—stems from Washington’s belief that Pakistan must be saved, in spite of itself, for the sake of America’s own security. There is simply too much at stake. For Washington, acting like a backseat driver won’t do. The time has come for America, conjoined by Pakistan’s military, to take the wheel and chart the course.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=234902
) There is real danger of their engineers getting soosai-ed " but that is for later. That leaves Unkil.
The militants get released, the Jihadi sympathizers come home. Everybody happy!!Col (retd) Amir Sultan, widely known as Col. Imam and Squadron Leader (retd) Khalid Khawaja went missing in the tribal areas last month.
The militants have demanded the release of at least two arrested Taliban leaders in Pakistan's custody for the release of the two officers. The demand was made through an email which also contained the footage of the two officers.
Including everyone's favorite dyed-in-wool jehadi, Hamid Gul, who must be sweating bullets at the moment for leading his former comrades into the arms of his new-found relatives.Anujan wrote:This is a new twist in the tale: Militants release video of former ISI officers
The militants get released, the Jihadi sympathizers come home. Everybody happy!!
They claimed that they were visiting the tribal areas following an advice by former Army Chief General Aslam Baig and former DG ISI Lt.General Hamid Gul.
This whole event gave three clear messages.
The first message was about the unity of civilian and military leadership. {Allah-o-Akbar} Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani arrived at around 11:00 am. General Kayani saluted him and gave him full respect in front of national and international media. The message was very clear that the military leadership is firmly standing behind the civilian leadership.{Even Gen. Zia, the monkey General, used to open the car doors for his Prime Minister, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto}
The second message was about the capabilities of the Pakistan Army and the Air Force. The Pakistan Army used homemade Al-Khalid tanks and Anza Mark II missiles while the PAF used not only US-made F-16s but also locally assembled JF-17 Thunder aircraft. The massive firepower of Al-Khalid tanks and JF-17 Thunder proved that locally-made weapons are as good as the imported ones.
The third message of this Azm-e-Nau exercise is for India. One can say that Azm-e-Nau-III exercise of the Pakistan Army is a clear message to India that "yes we are heavily engaged on western border but we are also vigilant on the eastern border".
Very interesting use of language in the report. Recommended reading.SSridhar wrote:The Azm-e-Nau III Message to India
Added:The presence of the country’s top political leadership in a very hot desert boosted the morale of Army troops, who have been engaged in a six-week-long Azm-e-Nau-III military exercise for the last few days.
I think some sense can be made of this incident.anupmisra wrote: Including everyone's favorite dyed-in-wool jehadi, Hamid Gul, who must be sweating bullets at the moment for leading his former comrades into the arms of his new-found relatives.They claimed that they were visiting the tribal areas following an advice by former Army Chief General Aslam Baig and former DG ISI Lt.General Hamid Gul.
So the truth is out now. It is not locally invented/made/ designed/built or whatever by the pious,intelligent , pure and experts in djinn theory of aerodynamics but only assembledUS-made F-16s but also locally assembled JF-17 Thunder aircraft.
The dialogue has brought the two sides closer on what was the single most critical missing link in the equation, i.e. an understanding, even if broad and notional, on the end-state in Afghanistan that both sides are willing to live with.
........
The message has been even clearer on Pakistan’s concerns vis-à-vis India in general and its presence in Afghanistan in particular. In what marks a change from the past, the US has agreed to lend a sympathetic ear on both counts.
.........
All along, the US had operated on the erroneous premise that Pakistan’s strategic paradigm could be shifted by a combination of monetary incentives and arm-twisting. This forced Pakistan to attempt to raise the costs for the US who it believed was seeking to achieve its aims without paying heed to its core demands.
..........
Strategically, the US must not go back to attempting a shift in Pakistan’s paradigm. The India question will have to be addressed by sidelining any Indian role in the Afghan reconciliation effort and by increasing public and private efforts to bring India back to the negotiating table. At least rhetorically, the US has to show that it has shifted its policy from indifference to active prodding.
Pakistan on its part must move beyond ‘security concerns’ and spell out what exactly it expects Washington to achieve in terms of the Pakistan-India equation. In doing so, it must take into account that the US does not have the leverage to do more than prod India constantly on key issues. Moreover, it is impossible for anyone to ask India to leave Afghanistan. Presence on the security front may be reduced but development assistance, and thus, civilian presence, shall remain courtesy of the domestic support for Indian social-sector spending among Afghans.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... agmire-940
USAID Administrator Rajiv Shah told a briefing in Washington that the United States was envisaging “larger scale, more transformational types of investments,” in Pakistan that could “take us all where we want to go.”
Such investments, he said, would bring substantial, long-term benefits. “So that 10 or 20 years from now, you could look back and say you started to see these big increases in agricultural value added and productivity because of unique things that were done now.”
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... kistan-940
I'm really sick of seeing people propagate this nonsensical '1000 years of no victory for 'Hindu India' (whatever that is supposed to mean in a land as religiously diverse as ours has always been)'. There is so much wrong with this snippet that one does not know where to begin.kittoo wrote:X-post.
From Orbat.com, on question that why India's RAW doesnt kill Hafeez Saeed like Israel kills Hamas leasers-India's security ethos has traditionally been reactive, and the country's size enables it to absorb grievous blows which might easily destroy other countries. It is no coincidence that after after Prithvi Raj Chauhan dealt the Muslims a heavy defeat, the next time Hindu India won a war was one thousand years later. (The 1971 victory.)[/b]
Last, like it or not, the people we call Israeli are Europeans. Yes, a minority of Israelis are Arab. But the country was founded by Europeans, and Europeans to this day form the bulk of its immigrants. The Europeans are a lot more efficient at most things than are we South Asians.
By Faraz Khan
KARACHI: Police have registered a first information report (FIR) against Adviser to Prime Minister for Ministry of Textile Industries Dr Mirza Ikhtiar Baig and booked former All Pakistan Textile Mills Association (APTMA) chairman Waqar Monnoo in a counter FIR.
According to details, FIR No 231/10 under Sections 147, 148, 149, 337-A-1 and 506-B was registered at the Darakhshan police station on Sunday against leading industrialist and Baig Group Chairman Dr Baig who is also affiliated with the Pakistan People’s Party.
The FIR was registered on the complaint of Monnoo and besides Dr Baig, his brother Ishtiaq Baig and around 10 of their associates have been booked as well.
Police have also booked Monnoo and around six of his associates in counter FIR No 232/10 registered by Dr Baig at the same police station under the same sections.
Police registered both cases after recording Dr Baig and Monnoo’s statements at the Jinnah Postgraduate Medical Centre where both of them were undergoing treatment after clashing with each other at APTMA Chairman Anwar Ahmed Tata’s bungalow where both Dr Baig and Monnoo had arrived for negotiations.
According to Dr Baig’s police statement, “Monnoo and his associates beat up and tortured my brother, our associates and me. They also threatened to kill me.” Similar to Dr Baig’s police statement, Monnoo claimed that Dr Baig, his brother and their associates did the same to his associates and him.
According to the FIR, the complainant told the police that Monnoo had verbally abused Dr Baig, threatened him to kill him and also engaged in firing at his bungalow, the official added. The official also said both parties had decided to negotiate with each other on Sunday to settle the issue at Tata’s bungalow located close to Dr Baig’s in Defence.
Wow! I am truly living in a cave. How did I miss it?SSridhar wrote:Zaid Hamid has been effectively shut down after the Sunni clerics accused him of 'association with a false Prophet". You know the punishment for this.
No sir. Indian history books do not say this. Orbat.com and Paki sites do. Why create strawmen when we can pinpoint the source?Kamboja wrote:
I blame our insipid and distorted education system in India, which teaches an anesthetized and emasculated version of Indian history that contains this '1000 years of no victory'
This link has virus. Be aware.jrjrao wrote: http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=26646
Deaf-n-dumb forum may on occasion give more details.. here is from one eye-witness ..shravan wrote:Blast in Peshawar
PESHAWAR: Thirty people were killed and dozens critically injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up in a religious party’s rally in Peshawar, police said.
A Deputy Superintendent of police, vice president of Jamat-I-Islami Peshawar district were among the dead.
It is the second blast in the city following blast outside the public school and college where one student killed and six others injured.
It was a small one, so nothing to worry about, only minor injuries, and Inshallah nothing more . I live near that area, I heard nothing, also been out there couple of hours ago..
Its indeed quite a many times that orbat.com has posted drivel on it. I personally wont be posting something from there, at least something that has no concrete base. My first reaction after reading was remembering that it was a Sikh, a Parsi and a Jew who are hailed as masterminds of Indian victory of 1971, alone with man brave men of all religions who gave their lives for the motherland.shiv wrote:No sir. Indian history books do not say this. Orbat.com and Paki sites do. Why create strawmen when we can pinpoint the source?Kamboja wrote:
I blame our insipid and distorted education system in India, which teaches an anesthetized and emasculated version of Indian history that contains this '1000 years of no victory'
But I do not want my objections to prevent anyone from cross posting what is said on orbat.com and Paki sites on here. Go ahead folks. Have fun. Help spread real history around and then blame Indian books.
Conspiracy theory time! Don your tinfoil hats!kittoo wrote:X-post.
From Orbat.com, on question that why India's RAW doesnt kill Hafeez Saeed like Israel kills Hamas leasers-
Interesting that apart from Samar Mubarakmand,(" an icon of Nuclear Physics in Pakistan") talked about Pakistan is fully capable of testing alloys in GCU) and stuffs like "A Q Khan rubbishes Pak's so-called strategic closeness to US" there is no physics related news picked up by google ..(Except, of course the breaking news that, Waleed Chaudhry was world topper in Physics along with Ibrahim Ahmed who was regional topper in Pakistan Studies in graduating class of RSS)...Seeing the name of Pervez Hoodbhoy on those who were maligning Pakistan should not have come as a surprise to Hoodbhoy watchers. Last week he publicly announced that “he was not proud about his Pakistani nationality”. His rhetoric on the genesis of Pakistan turns off even the most liberal Pakistanis. He crosses the line, has no following, but continues to spout Pakistanphobia in halting newly learned Urdu. Actually is is comical to watch him speak–searching for words, and then visibly translating them from English to Urdu. He teaching Physics at a third rate open admission university in the capital, known more for its parties than any intellectual pursuits. Imran Khan a firebrand politicians publicly challenged Mr. Hoodbhoy and asked him if he was on the payroll of US security agencies and worked as a consultant for American interests. They almost came to blows–saved only by the proverbial bell of a commercial break...
..Pervez (Ya)Hoodboy: Paid Security Analyst for the USA. Heads cabal of agents in Islamabd University’s nest of spies. Spews Pakistanphobic venom under banner of “Nuclear disarmament”...
Taking note of India's concerns, the United States today warned Pakistan that any "misuse" of weapons supplied to it will be investigated and the US Congress will take it "seriously".
"We will look into it very seriously," US Ambassador to India Timothy J Roemer told reporters here, asserting that arms supplied to Pakistan should be used only for the purpose mentioned in the agreement between the two countries.
The envoy's comments came just days after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, during his meeting with US President Barack Obama last week, voiced apprehensions about misuse of US military supplies to Pakistan.
Singh's apprehensions had prompted Obama to assure him that India's concerns in this regard would be kept in mind while dealing with the issue.
"...There are allegations of misuse of weapons given to Pakistan for other purposes. We will investigate it, Congress will take the issue seriously," Roemer said.
No one has doubt even Pakis don't. Since India has LCA so they want to have some equal-equals and hoping that if a lie was told 100 times, it would become truth.rkirankr wrote:^^So the truth is out now. It is not locally invented/made/ designed/built or whatever by the pious,intelligent , pure and experts in djinn theory of aerodynamics but only assembledUS-made F-16s but also locally assembled JF-17 Thunder aircraft.
That is because the Pakis are pathological liers. UN has named two Pakistani citizens in relation to Samjhota Express blast, and even though over 60 Pakis died in the incidence the two named Pakis are probably being protected by ISI instead of being handed over to India for trial.R_Kumar wrote: So the truth is out now. It is not locally invented/made/ designed/built or whatever by the pious,intelligent , pure and experts in djinn theory of aerodynamics but only assembled
No one has doubt even Pakis don't. Since India has LCA so they want to have some equal-equals and hoping that if a lie was told 100 times, it would become truth.
If you read about any terrorism article by a Pakistani they never forget to mention Col. Purohit hand in Samjhota Exp blast.
A lie isn't a lie when told to a filthy kaafir who does not submit to His will.Dipanker wrote: That is because the Pakis are pathological liers.
so the MMS govt is just looking for some face saving measure from pakistan to resume talks. The fact that infiltration has increased, or that LeT militants walk around freely recruiting and raising funds seems to not matter at all....
India has reason to expect some “credible steps” by Islamabad in the next few days by way of action against terrorist groups plotting against this country, sources in Washington who conducted high-level talks with Singh and Pakistan’s Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani separately in the US on April 11 told The Telegraph today.
American expectations are that any steps which they hope are to be imminently taken by Gilani’s government will enable India and Pakistan to have at least a semblance of bilateral talks on the sidelines of a summit of the South Asian Association for Regional Co-operation (Saarc) to be held in Bhutan at the end of this month.
...
...
He is determined that any talk with Islamabad must receive the widest possible attention in India’s public domain so that the government can muster popular support for a new Pakistan initiative and avoid the pitfalls in Sharm-el-Sheikh last year.
For that, the cloud created by the Tharoor-IPL controversy has to clear and normal political discourse has to resume with focus on the day’s important agenda such as engagement of Pakistan on the sidelines of the Saarc summit.
Singh’s programme in Bhutan has been planned in such a way that he will have an entire free afternoon, as of now, on the eve of the summit and at least 12 hours after the final Saarc ceremonies so that a meeting with Gilani can be scheduled if Islamabad goes at least half way towards satisfying Indian conditions for resuming the bilateral dialogue.
...
...
The source, who is constantly consulted by Singh on the need for a thaw with Pakistan — which Singh is convinced about — said it would be stupid to argue that India would not talk to Pakistan come what may unless India’s dictates were accepted in toto by Islamabad.
..
...
In the Prime Minister’s delegation which travelled to Washington, there has been a nuanced, but significant, shift in the conditions for continuing talks with Pakistan which were resumed at the foreign secretary level in February.
...
India’s new position is that the arrest of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) founder Hafiz Saeed is not central to the continuation of Indo-Pakistan talks. “Even if Hafiz Saeed is removed from the world, that will not be the solution to the problem” of cross-border terrorism, the source said.
What India needs to be convinced is that there is “some will” on the other side to crack down on terrorism against India in the same way that General Pervez Musharraf gave assurances about addressing Indian concerns and followed up on those assurances.
...
...
Sources in Washington said there had been a similar nuanced shift in Pakistan’s position as well. In recent public pronouncements, Pakistani leaders are no longer insisting that they would be satisfied with nothing short of a resumption of the so-called composite dialogue with India.
...
There were no independent states - there was just one state; there was no autonomy, Jinnah had probably retreated from that position.That the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in majority as in the North-Western and Eastern zones of India should be grouped to constitute independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and sovereign
Yes saar, the game theory model is that of the drug lord and the drug czar.putnanja wrote: so the MMS govt is just looking for some face saving measure from pakistan to resume talks. The fact that infiltration has increased, or that LeT militants walk around freely recruiting and raising funds seems to not matter at all.