Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 2010

saip · Post by **saip** » 12 Aug 2010 03:05

Gerard wrote:UN launches $459m Pakistan flood appeal

Interesting. UK gave the most and Saudis gave nothing and the taller than the mountains and deeper than the oceans gave a measly 2 mil. Probably the donations are directly proportional to the terroristic threat perception from pakistan (india excepted)

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 12 Aug 2010 03:18

Give us more flood relief baksheesh or the Taliban will regroup

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 12 Aug 2010 03:30

saip wrote:
Gerard wrote:UN launches $459m Pakistan flood appeal
Interesting. UK gave the most and Saudis gave nothing and the taller than the mountains and deeper than the oceans gave a measly 2 mil. Probably the donations are directly proportional to the terroristic threat perception from pakistan (india excepted)

Right way would be that India should donate 2.1 million(more than taller chinks) directly to Edhi foundation.
http://www.edhifoundation.com/

The reason is even though Edhi foundation is Pakistani, it runs on dharmic principles and does not differentiate between Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Ahmadiyas, Christians etc. when helping and is in trouble with militants due to this reason.
Its India's duty to help dharmic forces everywhere, be it TSP or moon.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-08-03/n ... foundation

While abandoned babies still turn up in city dumps, hundreds have been left in the 40 cradles situated around Karachi, and 350 more throughout the country.

The Edhis say the foundation has encountered resistance from local clerics and the Memons, a small, mostly Sunni group that has pressured the foundation to not take in Christians and Hindus. Despite numerous death threats, most of them anonymous, the foundation continues to accept children regardless of their faith.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 12 Aug 2010 03:31

saip wrote:
Gerard wrote:UN launches $459m Pakistan flood appeal
Interesting. UK gave the most and Saudis gave nothing and the taller than the mountains and deeper than the oceans gave a measly 2 mil. Probably the donations are directly proportional to the terroristic threat perception from pakistan (india excepted)

So much for the 'Ummah' eh.

Compare it to Katrina where Kuwait gave the United States half a BILLION $s and Qatar $100m.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168443,00.html

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 03:36

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -080-hh-02

Dawn says:

The Islamic Development Bank (IDB) has offered a soft loan of $10 million for flood relief but the response for the flood victims from most of the Muslim countries has so far been lacklustre. The sources said that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran and Indonesia had hinted at providing relief goods but economic affairs division (EAD) was yet to receive any confirmation. Saudi Arabia is reported to have sent some relief goods through non-government channels.

Most of the commitments for relief assistance have come from the World Bank, United Nations agencies, the United States, and European countries.

Yes, so much for the Ummah. I suppose Mussalmans in most Ummah countries have a poor opinion of Pakistan.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 03:39

Gun-to-the-head has become a habit.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=256037
AGENCIES ADD: Chief Minister Mian Shahbaz Sharif has asked Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani to retrieve money from looters and those who had got their loans written off and give it to flood-affectees otherwise a bloody revolution is imminent.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Aug 2010 03:39

Pakistan does not need any help from the Ummah! They are a superpower with nuclear weapons.

When Musharraf was selling Arabs to the Americans, he should have thought about the floods of 2010, and how the Pakistanis will get no help from the Ummah!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 03:44

US calculations:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6770Z320100808

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Aug 2010 04:03

Gus wrote:An email chain is doing the rounds in my office DL...started by a Paki...about how this tragedy is worse than the tsunami+PoK quake + Haiti quake combined. Some responses about showing support etc by well meaning or WKKite Indians...

Many Indians always have this holier than though attiutde when it comes to anything else but standing up for India. I recall with horror and anger encountering the standard reaction from apathy to disdain while collecting money for Kargil martyrs' kith & kin. But the outpouring from the same people in response for calls to help 9/11 victims was almost laughable, laughable in the sense of how the media blitz and the actual events had such an emotional impact on the very same people who could care two hoots when the victims are their own contrymen, and that too when you consider that the kind of support and aid 9/11 victims got from their own govt, people, corporations etc was mind boggling.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 12 Aug 2010 04:03

I wouldnt be surprise if tomorrow paki would say they have to sell or morgage nook for flood relief.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 12 Aug 2010 04:05

It will be a day when i see temples & ICC holding fund relief for pakis effected by flood or talib takeover.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Aug 2010 04:47

Gus wrote:An email chain is doing the rounds in my office DL...started by a Paki...about how this tragedy is worse than the tsunami+PoK quake + Haiti quake combined. Some responses about showing support etc by well meaning or WKKite Indians...

Show them reports of how pakis wanted the "donated by india" words removed from the aid that India offered during 2005 earthquake

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Aug 2010 04:55

amdavadi wrote:It will be a day when i see temples & ICC holding fund relief for pakis effected by flood or talib takeover.

I think India / indians ought to be generous and as per the wishes of Poak People not to store or steal water but let go all the water now to remove any doubt from Perfidious Poak mind !! Send the abb-e Sutluz to make prophetic deluge .

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 12 Aug 2010 05:02

Gus wrote:An email chain is doing the rounds in my office DL...started by a Paki...about how this tragedy is worse than the tsunami+PoK quake + Haiti quake combined. Some responses about showing support etc by well meaning or WKKite Indians...

Where is that paki joker who famously said "I'll rather be called a terrorist than an Indian" when we really need him.

Maybe now he is saying "I'll rather be inside a Paki coffin having floodwater PakiCola than in an Indian tent sipping Bisleri."

Last time in 2005 they were asking for land, and they got big and hot land from deep inside earth. They didn't know where to hide!
This time they were asking for water, and really Gods have smiled on them. Now they don't know where to run!

Maybe next time, they should ask for Kitchen Granite so a well meaning Meteor can finish all their demands in one go with ROP becoming RIP.

saip · Post by **saip** » 12 Aug 2010 05:02

India - Prime Minister Manmohan Singh offers quake assistance to Pakistan. Indian and Pakistani High Commissioners are in touch regarding cooperation in relief work. India has sent 25 tonnes of relief material to Pakistan including food, blankets and medicine. Big Indian companies such as Infosys have offered aid up to $226,000. On October 12, an Ilyushin-76 cargo plane ferried across seven truckloads (about 82 tons) of army medicines, 15,000 blankets and 50 tents and returned to New Delhi. A senior airforce official also stated that they had been asked by the Indian government to be ready to fly out another similar consignment.[7] On October 14, India dispatched the second consignment to relief material to Pakistan, by train through the Wagah Border. The consignment includes 5,000 blankets, 370 tents, 5 tons of plastic sheets and 12 tons of medicine. The third consignment is of medicine and relief material is being readied and will be sent shortly, also by train.[8]. India also pledged $25 million as aid to Pakistan.[9]
India opened the first of three points at Chakan Da Bagh, in Poonch, on the Line of Control (LoC) between India and Pakistan for the 2005 Kashmir earthquake relief work. (Rediff)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... earthquake

According to WIKI India pledged $25 mil besides sending hundreds of tonnes of medicines, food and other relief items. I am happy this time India just limited itself to sending a letter.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 12 Aug 2010 05:07

putnanja wrote:Show them reports of how pakis wanted the "donated by india" words removed from the aid that India offered during 2005 earthquake

Well...I can't really start a political discussion in that DL...against the policy..and it'll probably end up backfiring anyways...

I may send personal emails to people who I know..who thinks about donating.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 12 Aug 2010 05:08

I think the approach to take is to do the following:
- create our own distributable letter - that focuses on the Leh tragedy (100 or more people killed according to some reports)
- distribute to all Indians showing how this is such a secular effort (50% of Leh is muslim - WKK will get this)
- the aid agencies will help Pakistan since its "ask mechanism: is well developed
- who will help the people of Leh - if not us Indians...
- Infrastructure and costs of rebuilding are very high due to terrain
- we all helped when the last earthquake in Kashmir happened - not its time to help our citizens in Leh

Distribute as broadly as possible - redirects the efforts and the Pakis have competition.

saip · Post by **saip** » 12 Aug 2010 05:25

When the 2005 earthquake struck Pakis had no helicopters that they could use for relief and their H&D would not accept Indian helis. They wanted the helis but not the Indian pilots. Even though they have received quite a number of helis from the USA I wonder why they still are begging for more helis from the NATO. Obviously their priority was to get attack helicopters rather than those that can be used in rescue efforts. THey did form an emergency rescue and response agency after the earthquake but we have not heard what that agency is doing now nor do we hear what equipment it has.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Aug 2010 05:45

Pakistan Flood Victims: 'No Food,' 'No Money,' Would Have Been Better To Die (PHOTOS) ---Photos of BlueEyed Blonde TFTA Poaknavians.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/1 ... ml#s122866

Pakistani flood victims have been telling their stories to the Associated Press:"It would have been better if we had died in the floods as our current miserable life is much more painful," said 25-year-old Manzoor Ahmed, who spent the night shivering in the rain. Said another Pakistani, Horai Mai, age 40: "I have no utensils. I have no food for my children. I have no money ... We were able to escape the floodwaters, but hunger may kill us."
The government says it has been setting up relief camps, but per the Associated Press, "[a] reporter who traveled widely through the worst-hit areas in Sindh over the past three days saw no sign of relief camps or government assistance."Mian Iftikhar Hussain, a Pakistani official, told reporters after the flood, "We appeal to the world community to help us. We need a lot of assistance."

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Aug 2010 06:04

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... hingness/1[/b]
ShiriMean M Mazari

It is no wonder, then, that the British political elite can ride roughshod over Pakistan and the British media can go to town ridiculing and lampooning the Pakistani head of state. Even someone who is considered a friend of Pakistan like Baroness Wasti made a strange defence of Prime Minister Cameron’s remarks in an article by declaring that friendship “is meaningless unless you can be honest with each other!” That is true but does honesty demand that you publicly level unsubstantiated allegations against your friend in the territory of the foe of that friend? Where was the mutual respect Wasti talked about in Cameron’s remarks and subsequent reiteration of that position? However, given President Zardari’s absurd remarks about the UK-Pakistan historical relationship - and one only has to go throw the history of Partition to realise this - obviously even Baroness Wasti feels she can pull a fast one on Pakistan while defending her Party leader and Prime Minister!

At this time, substantive external humanitarian aid would have been welcome but most external donors, especially the rich developed states are showing no signs of giving any cash to the government because of a trust deficit. It is truly shameful that even in these times of humanitarian crisis of a scale larger than the 2005 Kashmir earthquake and the 2004 Tsunami put together, foreign donors including our so-called allies are not prepared to trust our leaders to pass on the money they would get to those in need. As a nation we should hang our heads in shame for having leaders who inspire no monetary trust or credibility, even when their people have been hit by catastrophic floods. Truly our rulers are seeking to reduce us to nothingness. Mercifully, this nation is far greater and more resilient than all its detractors

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 12 Aug 2010 06:06

it's all fault of West that we ain't getting any money

beat that if you can...

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 12 Aug 2010 06:32

Gus wrote: Well...I can't really start a political discussion in that DL...against the policy..and it'll probably end up backfiring anyways...

I may send personal emails to people who I know..who thinks about donating.

Some suggestions, Gus

- Do not send emails of the tortures of a paki mind to even an Indian. It will be used against you later. Plus during a RAPE incited lovefest, WKKs usually shut out that part of the brain that distinguish danger from dharma and only ooze excrement.
- In the DL, start off by cutting the ground from around the paki who claimed it was bigger than tsunami with a "I know you are agitated because your countrymen are snorkeling, but still one should never claim a family's lose in Tsunami is less than a family's loss in paki floods.... " kind of statement. Basically make him defensive
- Pakis were the chief backers of FOIL campaign against Indian charities. Why should we hold back now? So if there is any matching programs, go to your corporate legal dept and ask what are the guarantees that they can personally provide you that the money wont be siphoned to "Openly anti-democratic terrorists that cause death of <insert gora country you are in> soldiers in Afghanistan/Iraq".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Aug 2010 06:45

A_Gupta wrote:US calculations:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6770Z320100808

A big problem is that while the Zardari government and the international community struggle to get their act together the Islamist militants are already on the ground providing relief," said Pakistan expert Bruce Riedel of the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank.

Aid activity "on the ground" is as much political activity as electioneering. It is stated repeatedly that the Pakistani army opposes political activity by the "feudocracy" (a word I picked up in PTH). Clearly the Pakistani army has no opposition to political activity by the Islamists.

However I am not sure that the Pakistan army would place itself in a position where it would take orders from Islamist political leaders even if they came to power via elections.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 06:50

The United States, which has already committed $US55 million to Pakistani flood relief efforts, also announced it was contributing another $US16.2 million to the United Nations refugee agency and the International Red Cross for emergency assistance to flood victims.

"I would expect we'll have a higher contribution to make as we understand what exactly is needed," State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley told a news briefing.

Gates said the USS Peleliu, with about 19 helicopters on board, was already off the coast of Karachi. Six helicopters initially sent to Pakistan to assist relief efforts would return back to neighboring Afghanistan, he said.

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/us-boosts- ... an-3696922

----

Ummah's closed purses are made more interesting, when

Zardari Urges Pakistanis, Muslims to Aid Flood Victims as Ramadan Starts

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-1 ... tarts.html

----

Unkil is preparing a longer-term effort:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -280-hh-04

The Friends of Democratic Pakistan group is scheduled to meet in Brussels in October and the US plans to turn it into a conference on the floods, he {Richard Holbrooke} said.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 12 Aug 2010 06:55

The last time the friends of tsp met, the pledged 5.9 billion but only delivered 900 million.

anandsgh · Post by **anandsgh** » 12 Aug 2010 06:59

Apologies for breaking the thought process of some of the esteemed members here but I really do not understand all the fuss made here for India providing the money and aid to the current water boarding events happening in India's north-west neighborhood. We must not forget that same Indus river gave us also a fair amount of share of natural catastrophe in Laddakh recently. We should be thinking of providing help to the "current" Indians rather than thinking about the pre-1947 Indians who refused to join India!!

negi · Post by **negi** » 12 Aug 2010 07:05

Natural calamities are not meant for playing politics TSP's anti India designs not withstanding it did send across a relief package after the Bhuj earthquake, now I don't know the intentions behind such a gesture but the point is we shouldn't be reading too much into such stuff (relief packages are fine financial aid is something I would be worried about) . We have far more important issues to focus on.

--edited typos--

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Aug 2010 07:17

As usual, Pakistan will be in a dilemma about any help from India. On the one hand, it doesn't want Indian help that might sway the minds of the Pakistani people which it had carefully constructed over six decades: cunning, evil, baniya Hindu who is the mortal enemy of the Land of the Purest, in collusion with the Jews and the Christians. At the same time, it doesn't want to miss an opportunity to malign India. Pakistan thus always finds itself caught in a cleft. Its decisions therefore are always ad-hoc.

I think India must give aid to Pakistan at this stage. We must put stickers or even engrave on the aid material the following: "All References to India removed from this due to Pakistani sensitivities". Indian aid must also be very substantial, even for re-construction efforts. India must give wide publicity to this. This is a good opportunity for psy-ops, which should be a part of our holistic approach to resolving the Pakistani problem.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Aug 2010 07:30

India giving aid for the "perceived PR" is like "lipstick on Pig's lips". It is of no use to try to straighten dog's tail. I think things like (1) Talking to Pak (2) PR and psy-ops excercises (3) aman-ki-asha are all most useless excercizes. The best thing is to be blunt and say we don't conside Pakistan as friendly nation and we don'e even consider it as a nation from xx/xx/2010. All diplomatic relations are cancelled.

What big difference will it really make?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Aug 2010 07:36

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... 11znj.html

Two questions arise in the wake of this latest catastrophe: how many more body blows can Pakistan endure before it drops to its knees, and who would gain if it did?

That is the $459 million question.

munna · Post by **munna** » 12 Aug 2010 07:38

anandsgh wrote:We must not forget that same Indus river gave us also a fair amount of share of natural catastrophe in Laddakh recently. We should be thinking of providing help to the "current" Indians rather than thinking about the pre-1947 Indians who refused to join India!!

Nothing wrong with the post but the main culprit this time was not river but a phenomena called cloud burst (friends from Shimla or Pahad in general will be all too familiar with it). Google for it, its a rather terrifying phenomena

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Aug 2010 07:44

R Vaidya wrote:
Weeping /arguing with USA about Pakistan is of no use since they do not have much control. As a declining power they can maximum bribe Pakis to protect their Times Square. The real powers with influence--on current terror state-- are KSA and China and both will be more affected by Taliban govt in Pakistan than India.
India should not fall in to the trap of-- Talibun more dangerous than current Pak rulers. That is the main blackmail point of the current terror State. Talibun may focus on domestic issues of veiling and law and order and corruption and masjids. India should not unnecessarily get worked up that all Paki wimmen are getting veiled.That is all
R vaidya

Well said Vaidyagaru. Many years ago I had felt that a fundamentalist Islamic government should come to power in Pakistan and thought that India would be able to deal with such a government. The reason for my saying that was based on thoughts that can be controversial - but since most on here already know my view I will state what I had felt boldly.

Islam at its core is not exclusively about killing kafirs - although, as a kafir that is the part you will find out about best. There are aspects to Islam that made it popular - for whatever reason - there is no use arguing and saying that its popularity can be removed by argument. That popularity of Islam comes from the humdrum day-to day aspects of islam - the strict, even draconian rules that create stability and constancy in society. The argument that this stifles creativity and freedom is a pointless one in a society that is full of strife, militancy and death. In such a society the constancy of islam serves as a calm oasis towards which people will move. And the converse is also true (and utilised well by Islamists).

That means if you take a society and rip it apart by disorder mayhem and murder, you can them bring in calm by introducing Islam and saying that only Islam will serve as a calm oasis that shelters everyone equally. So you find both methods working. Unhappy disordered societies have people ripe for conversion or reaffirmation of faith, and societies that are deliberately disordered can then be converted as a route for settling them.

In Pakistan we have a pre existing Muslim society where disorder has come from mismanagement, greed and a military that has garnered all the wealth. Such a society is ripe for getting Islamized because Islamists are not just talking about fighting India (like the military) but they also talk education, food for the students and social service.

What the Pakistani army has done over the years is to leverage Islam on one side to fight kafirs (India, USSR) while pretending to be moderate and wholehearted supporters of the "free world" - so that the US was suckered into believing that it had a great ally. The US too has consistently shown its weakness by grabbing the support of all sorts of dubious entities that has backfired on the US. It is the US support of the Pakistani army that keeps the moderate appearance of the Pakistani army alive. Without US support the Pakistani army has no reason to go in any direction but Islamic. The Pakistani army, after having grabbed most resources is not in a position to improve Abdul Paki lives and can do nothing about the fact that that job is being done by Islamists.

I see the US role as extremely negative in Pakistan. They are supporting an anti-India Pakistani army that pretends to be moderate. The anti-India part is not a problem for the US as long as the Pakistan army as an "ally" and fighting the US's current foes. In the meantime th human condition of Pakistanis is getting worse and the society is gradually getting Islamised. As long as the military is in power and subservient to the US, this is not a problem for either the military or the US. The US pays the Pakistan military to use its people to fight someone. Fighting India is one option that they have. The US only wants the Paki military to keep Islamists off the US's back.

The US plan is bound to fail because islamists will take over as society gets more and more screwed up. So, as I see it, an ultimate defeat for the US and victory for the Islamists in Pakistan is inevitable. The real problem will be what the US does to delay or prevent this.

And here is where there is real danger to India - i.e in what the US and its pseudo allies in the Pakistani army are doing. The Paki army is milking the Americans and arming themselves to the teeth promising to keep the Islamists at bay, while the US looks the other way with regard to Paki army actions against India. But strife and mayhem in Pakistan are partly because the people are so screwed up and partly because of US policies that have "used" the Abdul Paki people. The Islamists in Pakistan are gradually getting support of the Paki people in this chaos. And the Paki people are being perfectly honest in hating the US.

A US exist from Pakistan is necessary, but such an exit in my view will be the first step in the fall of the US as a superpower. Superpowers do not fall without a fight and they can make it very difficult for India as they grab and manipulate to retain their power over the Pakistan army.

..will continue in another post

saip · Post by **saip** » 12 Aug 2010 08:07

negi wrote:Natural calamities are not meant for playing politics TSP's anti India designs not withstanding it did send across a relief package after the Bhuj earthquake, now I don't know the intentions behind such a gesture but the point is we shouldn't be reading too much into such stuff (relief packages are fine financial aid is something I would be worried about) . We have far more important issues to focus on.

--edited typos--

So we offered help in 2005 and what did pakis say? Back off you hindu kaffirs! We want your helis and not your kaffir pilots. And again they said if you send us any relief items make sure your damned name is not on them.

And again did they make sure the food items for bhuj are NOT HALAL. Ofcourse not. They said how dare you not eat our HALAL food and sent us only HALAL food.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Aug 2010 08:11

ramana wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Call for more aid for flood-hit Pakistan: BBC
...

Affected Region per BBC

Can someone plot TSPA/PAF locations on this map and make an assessment?

Thanks.

Also when aid for rebuilding starts from the US watch for which areas are getting rebuilt.

rough estimate, XI corps area, peshawar. PAF bases risalpur, kamra, rafiqui and possibly chaklala.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Aug 2010 08:43

Rahul M wrote: "ramana
...

Can someone plot TSPA/PAF locations on this map and make an assessment?

Thanks.

Also when aid for rebuilding starts from the US watch for which areas are getting rebuilt.
rough estimate, XI corps area, peshawar. PAF bases risalpur, kamra, rafiqui and possibly chaklala.

What about Sargodha
What is the battle readiness of these frontline airbases. Any degradation and what is the damage assessment

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Aug 2010 08:48

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... 11znj.html

Two questions arise in the wake of this latest catastrophe: how many more body blows can Pakistan endure before it drops to its knees, and who would gain if it did?
That is the $459 million question.

Pretty sure the west led by the "south asia experts" boys are working overtime to make sure that whoever gains, it must not be the SDREs and deviate too far away from equal equal.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » 12 Aug 2010 08:51

The PA - ISI supports the Taliban who are doing their best to destroy the efforts in bringing civilization (schools, water supply, healthcare etc) to Afghanistan by India and other countries.

Yet, Pakistan complains about the limited help being given to rebuild their civilization that has been damaged - destroyed by the Floods.

AoA

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Aug 2010 09:01

I will take the liberty of linking an earlier post for which this is meant to be a continuation
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 00#p921200

I have stated that an Islamist takeover of Pakistan is inevitable. Whether that will be a Taliban style government or a democratic Islamic government I cannot say.

The other big questions to my mind are:

1) What will the relationship of the Islamist government be with the US?
2) What will the relationship of the Islamist government be with India?

I have included the US and put it first because the US is a major make or break player in Pakistan. The US, for all its buster about Islamism does not really care as long as a government is friendly and compliant. An Islamist Pakistani government in Pakistan is likely to be anti-US in the Iran mould because it appears to me that the Paki people and Islamists are anti-US. The Paki army too is covertly anti US, but knows which side its bread is buttered. For this reason the US will fight tooth and nail to keep the pro-US sentiment in the Paki army happy and do everything in its power to stop and anti US Islamist government from coming to power in Pakistan. To see the effect of this we will have to wait for the next Paki elections if at all they are held.

But one thing is certain. If an Islamist government takes over, it is likely that the US will get the boot, or the US will be given strict conditions for staying involved - i.e to provide support against India. This is already happening covertly. It could become open for all to see if an Islamist government comes to power. The US will be asked to choose between Pakistan and India. What the US does in such a situation could be crucial to future India-Pakistan relaitiosn with an Islamist government.

There is a small possibility that an Iran style Islamist government in Pakistan could kick out the US altogether. But one thing is ceratin if that happens - Pakistan cannot survive without US support and oppose India at the same time. If the US is kicked out, Pakistan will have to mend fences with India. Even tarrel than mountain fliend will not be able to support the whole of Pakistan any more than the US.

So the answer to the question "What sort of relationship will and Islamist Paki government have with India?" is dependent on how the US manages to leverage its influence. The US's support has been the most significant factor in the long term survival of Pakistan's anti-India stance.

In the long term it is in India's interest to see the US kicked out of the region and Pakistan coming under India's economic influence. There is an outside possibility of that with an Islamist government, but no possibility of that with a nationalist Pakistan government.

JMT

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 12 Aug 2010 09:04

negi wrote:Natural calamities are not meant for playing politics TSP's anti India designs not withstanding

We cant let our food and blankets be used as a campus recruitment tool by the worst terrorists of this world. No one can guarantee that misuse of aid wont happen, not the US, not the Paki civvie govt. So why should I watch on CNN, the Indian aid (after stickers are removed) being distributed by beards in uniform or drag?

After Mumbai attacks, that country, its state systems and its terror loving people are less then dung I would scrape on to the footpath. They can go and shack up at Markuz-ul-dawa's campus, when the lights gets extinguished one by one down the Indus valley.

Anyways, we will see offers for AWACS, attack helicopters etc for flood relief from more richer countries with higher percentage of potty-pooping peoples than India.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 12 Aug 2010 09:12

shiv - when you speak of an Islamist takeover, are you saying something along the lines of the Iranian revolution?