Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

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amit
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by amit »

viv wrote:"economic mouse", I thought is a sarcastic comment on Manmohan's governance and government. That he has been unable to guide India's economy correctly.

That's fine I also think that MMS has been a total flop in his second term in terms of economic management. However, to take that and say that India does not have a right to give a well deserved jhapad to the haughty Eurozone because its PM has been less than nimble on the economic front is taking things too far. Heck in that case the US shouldn't be criticising anybody due to the economic mess in its backyard.

IMO sometimes one needs to differentiate between PM the person and the PM as a spokes person for India Inc. My limited point was just that. I for one feel immense satisfaction over the fact that India Inc could at an international forum tell the Eurozone to get its act together and that too after giving it $10 billion in aid. For too long we've been at the receiving end of unsolicited economic advice. I would have thought folks would be happy that, for a change, we were dishing out some of our own. Instead we have the usual "chest beating". Sigh!
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by AbhiJ »

Rupee Closes at 57.30/-

Seems Prediction of touching 60 is going to prove True.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by A Nandy »

Ikea maybe entering India: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 338874.cms

The GOI is planning to relax some norms on local sourcing.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Abhijeet »

Back from a quick trip to Bombay. Observations:

- Lots of construction, high-end stores, huge billboards. Most new storefronts and buildings look international quality at least from the outside (there are still construction quality issues especially in residential buildings if you look closer). In some (limited) areas it looks like a city from a rich country.
- The city is much cleaner than I remember -- not a lot of garbage lying around in most areas, less decrepit buildings than before due to the ceaseless redevelopment.
- We went around the typical South Bombay landmarks and they were generally well maintained. Lots of security around the Gateway of India.
- For a small town hick like me, it was pleasant to see women wearing shorts in public with nobody paying any attention to them.
- We went to a recently opened restaurant in BKC -- Michelin starred, originally from London. Prices were a cool Rs. 5000 per head and nobody in our party (all Mumbai residents) batted an eye at the bill. The restaurant was packed, with all Indians (no expats) as far as I could see. The Sofitel in BKC is significantly more high end than any Sofitel I've seen in the US or Europe. The direction of BKC becoming the new commercial center is clear. SoBo (or SoMu as I like to call it) will turn into a beautiful, well-preserved museum.

Generally, it seems like a city going in the right direction, and at a significantly different level of development than other places I've visited in India. I haven't been to Delhi but I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by AbhiJ »

The Centre of the City is Shifting to the Western Suburbs. Most of my relatives who lived in the Town for hundreds of years have shifted to the Western Suburbs in the last few years.
- For a small town hick like me, it was pleasant to see women wearing shorts in public with nobody paying any attention to them.
This is the Pecularity No City can match Bombay in the Country. :D Ladies can wear whatever they want and no one cares about them. Hope This Attitude Translates in the North. :-?

Also BKC is the New Centre of the Country. 8)
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Suraj »

Delhi has much better infrastructure than Bombay today. It used to be the other way around 20 years ago, but Delhi had developed drastically since then. Bombay still has that increasingly dense high-rise maze look that's TFTA-looking, while Delhi has more sprawl and hardly anything by way of tall buildings.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Prem »

Most of NRIs feel poor when they visit Delhi.
This is the new reality> :oops:
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by vishvak »

South Bombay has some unique features. At places some societies are real high-flying, literally where only crorepatis( may be Abajpatis now) stay. Also it is the seat of local and state Legislative Councils, the local courts and the state High Court, the University, etc. so there is high security, order and generally good standards( of roads, water supply, electricity, cleanliness) overall. Mumbai Police has perhaps amongst the most talented and hard working people with the best of IPS cadre at its head, just as it is for Pune Police. There are localities in Mumbai where generations have stayed so there is relative familiarity where no one troubles others. There is also the local trains and stations every 3 k.m., business districts (near fort, etc), Colaba and other places where intentional tourists/personnel from merchant navy, etc and hotels like The Taj etc that cater to the classes are present, the Marine Lines-Queen's necklace and the seat of the Governor of Maharashtra at the end of Marine Lines, BEST buses running regularly, etc.

I also distinctly remember Navy Nagar Area for its scenic greenery and quite, where I went for some work. Very refreshing feel right in heart of Mumbai. Also distinctly recollect Air Force show where lakhs of Mumbaikar came to the Marine Drive and Chowpatty, from one end to another, to see the fighter jets.
link - for pic on crowds on the day.
In this image you can see the crowds in the background - on the beach, from buildings.

IIRC, Delhi has surpassed Mumbai in tax collections. So in trade as well Delhi/NCR has definitely moved great. Mumbai suffers for its only an Island and can't have more space laterally.
Last edited by vishvak on 23 Jun 2012 01:33, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by A Nandy »

How was/is the traffic in Mumbai/Pune ?
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by AbhiJ »

vishvak wrote:South Bombay has some unique features. At places some societies are real high-flying, literally where only crorepatis( may be Abajpatis now) stay. Also it is the seat of local and state Legislative Councils, the local courts and the state High Court, the University, etc. so there is high security, order and generally good standards( of roads, water supply, electricity, cleanliness) overall. Mumbai Police has perhaps amongst the most talented and hard working people with the best of IPS cadre at its head, just as it is for Pune Police. There are localities in Mumbai where generations have stayed so there is relative familiarity where no one troubles others. There is also the local trains and stations every 3 k.m., business districts (near fort, etc), Colaba and other places where intentional tourists/personnel from merchant navy, etc and hotels like The Taj etc that cater to the classes are present, the Marine Lines-Queen's necklace and the seat of the Governor of Maharashtra at the end of Marine Lines, BEST buses running regularly, etc.

I also distinctly remember Navy Nagar Area for its scenic greenery and quite, where I went for some work. Very refreshing feel right in heart of Mumbai.

IIRC, Delhi has surpassed Mumbai in tax collections. So in trade as well Delhi/NCR has definitely moved great. Mumbai suffers for its only an Island and can't have more space laterally.
I hope you are not drunk. Any Source to Support it?
The size of the BMC budget , up from Rs 21,096 crore in 2011-12 , is now thrice that of Delhi and more than twice that of Bangalore. In fact, it is even more than some of the Indian states: It is a little less than twoand-a-half times the Goa budget (Rs 8,000 crore) and nearly Rs 5,000 crore more than the Himachal Pradesh budget.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 349842.cms

This is only Municipal Tax Paid by Mumbai.

Not Counting State Level and Central Level.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by AbhiJ »

Suraj wrote:Delhi has much better infrastructure than Bombay today. It used to be the other way around 20 years ago, but Delhi had developed drastically since then. Bombay still has that increasingly dense high-rise maze look that's TFTA-looking, while Delhi has more sprawl and hardly anything by way of tall buildings.
What I know delhi has 30% Public Transportation While Bombay Got 88% with Higher Population.

So If delhi even wants to be comparable, it has to provide Public transportation to 88% of its population.

Unless and Until No one can reach Bombay's Level.

FYI , Chennai's Share is 26%.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by vishvak »

AbhiJ wrote:
The size of the BMC budget , up from Rs 21,096 crore in 2011-12 , is now thrice that of Delhi and more than twice that of Bangalore. In fact, it is even more than some of the Indian states: It is a little less than twoand-a-half times the Goa budget (Rs 8,000 crore) and nearly Rs 5,000 crore more than the Himachal Pradesh budget.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 349842.cms

This is only Municipal Tax Paid by Mumbai.

Not Counting State Level and Central Level.
My mistake, I stand corrected. Mumbai has more income also perhaps because it is a port city.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Suraj »

This isn't an exercise in parochialism - I've lived in both cities, and like Bombay more for personal reasons, but find Delhi just better developed now. Public transportation is just one aspect - Delhi looks and feels much more modern, has better roads, a newer rapid transit system, and until BOM construction is over, a better airport.

Bombay definitely has a more comprehensive bus system (I have used BEST a *lot* as a primary school kid in the late 80s), though DTC looks much more modern now, thanks to the CWG2010 investments. Delhi also has a much more modern rapid transit system in the metro, even though Bombay suburban carries so many people.

Bombay will get dramatically better as ongoing work gets done, and may overtake Delhi again; but right now, in my subjective opinion, it does not look as modern as Delhi. It has plenty by way of existing infrastructure (rail and roads) but needs a lot of investment to bring it upto the standard Delhi has now reached.

Delhi will always have a problem with efficient public transportation because of geographic differences; Delhi is a sprawl in all directions, like Los Angeles to Bombay's New York geography, and Delhi has far more cars as a result.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Murugan »

When moun moun singh breaks his moun he is real man mohan

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 349947.cms

Man mohan ji chides west at rio
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Yayavar »

amit wrote:
viv wrote:"economic mouse", I thought is a sarcastic comment on Manmohan's governance and government. That he has been unable to guide India's economy correctly.

That's fine I also think that MMS has been a total flop in his second term in terms of economic management. However, to take that and say that India does not have a right to give a well deserved jhapad to the haughty Eurozone because its PM has been less than nimble on the economic front is taking things too far. Heck in that case the US shouldn't be criticising anybody due to the economic mess in its backyard.

IMO sometimes one needs to differentiate between PM the person and the PM as a spokes person for India Inc. My limited point was just that. I for one feel immense satisfaction over the fact that India Inc could at an international forum tell the Eurozone to get its act together and that too after giving it $10 billion in aid. For too long we've been at the receiving end of unsolicited economic advice. I would have thought folks would be happy that, for a change, we were dishing out some of our own. Instead we have the usual "chest beating". Sigh!
:) Your limited point is noted. I am only clarifying on what the author implies by 'economic mouse'. It does not seem to be the definition you used. Anyway - not much of an issue, as we are all happy at the berating of the north-west asians (europeans). The jump to an assertion of 'chest beating' - gorilla style or 'maatam' - is your perception.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Austin »

For a person staying for a few days in Mumbai , the city might appear all glitter and glamour , specially if you visit south mumbai and dine in expensive places

For some one who can seen Mumbai change over past 30 years , this place has become expensive like hell , the land mafia has captured all the land it could and property price has gone beyond the reach of most common Mumbaite , except the rich NRI and super Rich class of South Mumbai and some rich pockets of Mumbai suburbs.

I see more poor people and beggers on road that i would have seen them 15 years back , but they say even their jugghi is worth more than a lac if thats some solace to them.

I dont share the excitement of this new Mumbai simply because it has gone beyond the stage of affordability and has become criminally rich and corrupt society , all the rich NRI money flowing in means property prices are actually rising by week and not months and years , experiencing that personally.

Bombay was far better 20 years back with affordable housing , public transport and far less population and more land and greenery leading to much better place to live.

On the positive side there are far more number of malls and multiplexes so shopping is much easier , I am told the traffic congestion is much better than other metros like Bangalore.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by vera_k »

My last visit to Mumbai reminded me of Lagos, because an increasing number of poor people can be seen hawking their wares at traffic stops. The middle class appears to be in retreat leaving only the rich and the poor.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Singha »

the old mumbai area can only support so much. the middle class will have to decamp to jobs in new suburbs and outlying ring roads on far shore and north of virar if the growth is planned properly. perhaps they have already done so.

like NYC or London, if the old areas are cleaned up at some point - you will see only the rich and then some poor on the street depending on if the pockets of slums and chawls are allowed to remain or cleaned out chinese style. loads of tourists and hotels also, oohing and aahing over refurbished docks, old parsi homes, taj hotel , old schools, VT architecture and so on.....thats how they generate money + the taxes of the rich to keep the "sheen" on the NYC story. plus they have metro to pull in lots of people in the day for office but chase them out efficiently in the evening.

there is no way in hell such a rich city + lack of land can support affordable housing for middle and upper middle class and one should not even expect that.

nobody can afford to aspire to own property anymore in a big area of south delhi due to cost (vasant vihar, GK, south extt, lutyens adjoining area), some pockets in east delhi like sundar nagar (kapil dev resides there!) ..... but the city has been planned and grown in vast new areas like noida, ghaziabad, GGN, dwaraka (itself bigger than most standalone towns), rohini etc.....a FAR bigger area than mumbai peninsula.

the world changes, people cannot aspire to buy in the same area their parents did 30 yrs ago, unless the economy has been like TSP over decades...

same goes for BLR or anywhere else. buy early in a decent location if you can, you never know when it will become unafforable.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Murugan »

Mumbai the old one had a very small area in the southern point of salsette. All the govt and corporate offices were in south mumbai. mumbai consisted of seven islands till lated ninteenth century. brutish reclaimed sea and all the islands became a common land, though bandra and other northern suburbs are still separated by creek.

Beyond dadar residential complex kept coming and suburb kept expanding northwards till borivali and in last ten years beyond borivali. in the east navi mumbai kept expanding. my experience is that beggers have reduced by half compared to twenty years ago. despite too much of congestion, barring certain busy roads, public transport is still efficient. despite being orphan mumbai has kept its spirit up. more and more people are coming to start a new life. still a good destination for entrepreneurs. People of mumbai still help out strangers. During the deluge i myself saw the way people help other, giving away food, water, even garam chaay, direction and hands that too these strangers they have never met and are not likely to meet. during 93 blast, 26 july and november people of mumbai always stand up and show their real face.

Prices of real estate have sky ricketed after 2006 but are losing thd pace. Govt and coro offices are now shifting to bkc, navi mumbai and thane. In south mumbai old buildings are demolished and nw highrisers being constructed. nobody can deny that mumbai is safer still and has good people.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Murugan »

Mumbai has only north south axis to develop, in the east there is acreek in the west sea. north east national park. still many offices in south mumbai and residential ares in north. It is a typical mahalaxmi racecourse event taking place every day. in th morning the race starts from north to south and in the evening south to north. an ideal city will have ring or parallel roads. In mumbai there are only two roads either sides of wr railway track in western suburb. in central, the road connectivit is inadequate but improving
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Abhijeet »

To clarify, I grew up in Mumbai, went to college there, and my parents and extended family live there. I'm very familiar with the city -- I've only become a small town hick after I R2I'd a few years back. :)

Since I visit the city intermittently, I can see the changes perhaps more starkly than someone who lives there.

As Singha says, it's unreasonable to expect Bombay to remain affordable for the middle class -- there's already SRA type housing available, but it will happen only as government intervention, never through the free market -- land is simply too valuable. There are definitely government reforms that can help with this by freeing up more space for development.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Murugan »

Once cross vasai creek beyond bhayandar and you don have any easy road connectivity. Beyond naigaoon there is nor road parallel to rail track connecting naigaon upto virar
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Murugan »

vishvak
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by vishvak »

Murugan wrote:Mumbai has only north south axis to develop, in the east there is acreek in the west sea. north east national park. still many offices in south mumbai and residential ares in north. It is a typical mahalaxmi racecourse event taking place every day. in th morning the race starts from north to south and in the evening south to north. an ideal city will have ring or parallel roads. In mumbai there are only two roads either sides of wr railway track in western suburb. in central, the road connectivit is inadequate but improving
Reliance had offered to construct an eastward railways from Saweri over south even with condition that some of the land where bridges touch the mainland konkan will be given to Reliance, but then the state Govt. stated something like 'will be done on its own'!! Don't know how Govt. tends to such a project with usual tenders and contractors who repair the roads. Just so that it is not left unsaid, it is not been built yet. But it could reduce the prices in Mumbai to an extent, as also increase horizontal growth in the mainland and perhaps even increase taxes that come with growth.

Some more on it on the net such as link but nothing expected to be done quickly.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Abhijeet »

Murugan wrote:Abolish 500 and 1000 rupee note

http://www.firstpost.com/economy/we-sho ... RHS-Widget
Such nonsense. In a country where even weekly purchases at the grocery store are in the thousands of rupees, sure, let's make it even more of a pain to perform basic transactions. That will magically reduce black money.

I fear for the students at IIM Bangalore where this person is a finance professor, of all things.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Singha »

he is also a sometime member here. in this instance I have to agree - abolishing notes is like beating the patient to cure illness.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Singha »

WSJ

KEA Plans to Invest €600 Million in India

By MUKESH JAGOTA

NEW DELHI--IKEA Group plans to invest an initial €600 million in India and has applied for permission to do so, a senior government official said Friday, indicating the Swedish homewares giant may finally be ready to set up shop in the country after it earlier expressed concerns about the conditions the government has placed on foreign retailers.

It will subsequently invest an additional amount of up to €900 million and set up 25 retail stores initially in India through a wholly-owned unit.


IKEA Chief Executive Mikael Ohlsson met federal Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma in St. Petersburg on Friday to confirm the firm will be investing in India, the official told reporters.


The Indian government recently allowed foreign companies to own 100% of "single-brand" retail ventures, up from the earlier cap of 51%. However, IKEA said it was concerned about the conditions it placed on foreign retail firms, including a requirement that they source at least 30% of products from local companies.

IKEA wasn't immediately available for comment.

If IKEA enters the Indian market it would be one of the more high-profile single-brand retailers to invest in the South Asian nation at a time when dwindling foreign capital inflows are pushing the Indian rupee to record lows against the U.S. dollar.
---


so with close to $1b worth of money, seems like they can set up a half dozen megastores here....the 4 metros + hyd + blr if they want. typically they do not have too many stores though and use large cachement areas even in US, but may be because people are willing to self-drive long haul there, here nobody is going to drive from blr to chennai to buy furniture.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Austin »

Singha wrote:the old mumbai area can only support so much. the middle class will have to decamp to jobs in new suburbs and outlying ring roads on far shore and north of virar if the growth is planned properly. perhaps they have already done so.
Well the old mumbai is long dead and gone couple of decades back , No common mumbai kar would have even dared to dream to buy a flat even 25 years back in those areas. Unless ofcourse you are residing in those areas from generations then count your self lucky.

Talk about today any buy between Andheri and Borivili today will easy cost you above 80 lacs plus to even crore plus too , not to mention those flats comes with 30-35 % loading , 40 % is going to be norm soon and i came across one property new construction that has 50 % loading and sells at 90 lacs for 1300 sq feet effectively you are left with 650 sq feet usable place and you pay for 1300 and its in Andheri area.

Any thing after Borivili i.e Dhaisar to Bhyandar around 900 sq feet ( always count 35-40 % loading for new property ) will cost cost you any where between 50 to 70 lacs .....beyond that Naigoan to Virar will cost you 35 - 45 lacs for the same area

The problem with buying so called affordable homes between Naigoan to Virar is the lack of proper connectivity to reach the station as thats the only way to reach any where between Andheri to South Bombay where offices are , not to mention water and electricity problem.......the Joy of Travelling in Virar train is unparalleled ......worth experiencing during business hours inspite of the newer 4 tracks :lol:

Bottom line it you pay like 40 - 50 lacs in the most remote suburbs of mumbai and all you get is hard life day in and out.

Most property in Mumbai has some or the other legal issue which means there is the politician-builder-underworld lobby that keeps prices artificially inflated all the time every time even during 2008 recession Mumbai prices by and large remained steady and high .....so you can invest in property here and its recession proof.

NRI have lately investing a lot as told to me by few builders and they tend to buy couple of flats during foundation time and sell it and within 3 years you can make 60-80 % over your investment ...... which means you rarely find flats available till it reaches the first floor of construction.

Mumbai has over all very poor infrastructure compared to the population it supports , over crowed buses , trains during most hours of the day are a norm and not an exception , traffic congestion has increased and we are told Metro is the saving grace its already delayed by 2 years and counting.

I found Bangalore good in many aspects atleast one can think of buying a decent house at decent price and not some tin box with 40 % loading.

Still Mumbai City has life , works for 24x7x365 and its like a Maximum city ..... be it terror strike , flooding etc the city seems to have its own energy and bounces back fairly soon , the communal issues is much better then what i saw and experienced during 93 mumbai riots and i know many people in office who have come from Delhi , Bangalore have found the city good and people better and opted for houses here even if that means taking home loans of around 60-80 lacs.

Just visited a builder in Naigoan ....he seems to be extraordinarily happy that Mantralaya has burnt and now his project will get approval to build a 18 floor tower ( till 7 th floor that has been approved ) since he is confident most document are gone and seems sure this was a deliberate attempt to clean all records ! Never mind works for him.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by AbhiJ »

{OT}Add to above:

1) About Safety:
From a Foreigner:
Oh Mumbai! How much can I praise thee in this regard! Let me count the ways! I have never ever lived in a city where it is completely OK to walk down the street in a pair of shorts, even if it is in the middle of the madness that accompanies Ganesh Chaturthi. No one ever looks twice at you, there are no wolf whistles or cat calls, and cab drivers and auto drivers are unfazed by giggling girls demanding to be taken home at 2am.
Link

2) No One Interferes in Another's Life.

3) The Best Social Infrastructure in the Country - Pune, Khandala, Matheran, Mahabaleshwar, Panhgini, Goa, Nashik A Couple of Hours away nearly connected by Expressways.

4) All Ricks got E-Meters. :P

That's Why The Price is Worth Paying.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Vipul »

Not to mention, what makes the Maximum City really tick - The average citizen. I have lived in many places but nowhere do you find the sheer energy and the accomadating spirit of a Bombayite/Mumbaikar.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Prem »

India Plans to Stimulate Economy .
http://india.nydailynews.com/article/e2 ... ve-economy
India plans to unveil new measures on Monday to boost the economy, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee said Saturday, a day after the rupee touched a new record low against the US dollar.The rupee fell to a record low of 57.32 against the dollar for the first time Friday, as global uncertainty pushed investors to the safe-haven US currency."These are no doubts of signs of weakness in the Indian economy. I am concerned but not depressed," Mukherjee told reporters in eastern city of Kolkata."We will be able to take certain measures, which will be announced on Monday, which will improve the market condition."Mukherjee said the government had discussed the economic situation with the central bank governor on Friday.e said at a time when the global economy is in turmoil, then no country can expect that there will be pocket of development and particularly in a large economy like India.Foreign corporate confidence in Asia's third largest economy is low, due to new restrictive tax policies and a perception of government paralysis in enacting further reforms.The rupee has been one of the hardest-hit currencies in Asia, reflecting investor concerns about India's economy, which is being buffeted by high inflation and slow growth.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Lisa »

Austin wrote:
Talk about today any buy between Andheri and Borivili today will easy cost you above 80 lacs plus to even crore plus too , not to mention those flats comes with 30-35 % loading , 40 % is going to be norm soon and i came across one property new construction that has 50 % loading and sells at 90 lacs for 1300 sq feet effectively you are left with 650 sq feet usable place and you pay for 1300 and its in Andheri area.
What does Loading mean, please?
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Lisa »

Marten wrote:If the actual area of the apartment is say 1000 sq ft, and the builder sells it to you claiming a "super built up" area of say, 1500 sq ft, the difference is loading.
I so sorry but is that not an offence in that he, the builder, is lying to you. Excuse naivety but at this end you could be sued for a similar claim.
Singha
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Singha »

not in the indian context. what you refer to as a built up area outside india is perhaps == carpet area in india. one needs to get the floor plan and dimensions and calculate the carpet area.

ideally a law should be enacted that builders must quote the carpet area and the (super-built-up-area MINUS carpet area == common area) in all sales docs clearly, but this is not done yet inspite of some noises. another reform thats awaiting a reformist Kshatrap in the delhi sultanate.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Manu »

Outside of Delhi and Chandigarh, where I grew up and have all my family, my favorite city in India (to live in) would be Hyderabad (I have some family there as well - AP Cadre).

I love the area around HiTech City an Raheja Mindspace. People are polite, air is not polluted, traffic is not as bad as Delhi and the local cuisine is to die for. For some reason, Bangalore always get top spot when we refer to South of the Vindhya. Had it not been for the Telengana issue, property prices in Hyderabad = = Bangalore.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Aditya_V »

Manu wrote:Outside of Delhi and Chandigarh, where I grew up and have all my family, my favorite city in India (to live in) would be Hyderabad (I have some family there as well - AP Cadre).

I love the area around HiTech City an Raheja Mindspace. People are polite, air is not polluted, traffic is not as bad as Delhi and the local cuisine is to die for. For some reason, Bangalore always get top spot when we refer to South of the Vindhya. Had it not been for the Telengana issue, property prices in Hyderabad = = Bangalore.
When I first Moved to Hyderabad,had office in Hitech city area and rented a flat in Kondapur, thought Hyderabad had not traffic, travel to Mehdipatnam, Lakdikapul, Ameerpet, Begumpet etc and you will know how bad Hyderabad city traffic is.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by amit »

viv wrote::) Your limited point is noted. I am only clarifying on what the author implies by 'economic mouse'. It does not seem to be the definition you used. Anyway - not much of an issue, as we are all happy at the berating of the north-west asians (europeans). The jump to an assertion of 'chest beating' - gorilla style or 'maatam' - is your perception.
Viv,

Please note that the "chest beating" comment was not directed towards you. If you follow the conversation trail would understand that.

My point about Venky's comment about economic mouse, is the simple fact that he's confusing two issues, the same as the poster here with whom I was having a conversation.

If one were to say that the PM of India has no right to berate the Eurozone on account of poor performance at home, then hey, expect for Wen Jaibo no world leader has the right to lecture anyone since China is the only country which is "growing" at 8 per cent now. Ombaba and his officials should also keep their traps shut na?

Anyway I think this issue has been flogged enough, my last post on this.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by amit »

Mehul Srivastava and Adi Narayan have written this in Bloomberg:

Early Death Assured In India Where 900M Don’t Eat Enough

Can we discuss this, please.
For Rashid’s mother, Nazia, the three-decade road from her birth to the death of her son ran alongside a slow collapse in India’s elemental struggle to feed its people. More than three- quarters of the 1.2 billion population eat less than minimum targets set by the government, up from about two-thirds, or 472 million people, in 1983. India’s failure to feed its people came as the economy accelerated, with gross domestic product per capita almost doubling in the past decade.
This looks like a hack job.
While nutritionists and economists debate the importance of targets defined solely in calories, other data shows gains in nourishment also stalled. In the 2005 National Family Health Survey, when India last weighed, measured and counted its children for signs of hunger, it found 46 percent -- 31 million -- weighed too little for their ages, almost an entire Canada of malnourished under-three-year-olds. In 1999, that number was 47 percent.

Some indicators worsened: 79 percent of children had anemia, against 74 percent in 1999; 19 percent were wasted -- weighed too little for their height -- up from 16 percent. Anemia prevents the absorption of nutrients; as do the diarrhea and other diseases caused by poor hygiene and sanitation.

In sheer numbers, 4 out of 10 malnourished children in the world are Indian, more than in all of Africa. War-torn Sudan and famine-struck Eritrea had smaller percentages of malnourished children, at about 32 percent, according to the Washington-based International Food Policy Research Institute.
Didn't we have a discussion on this sometime ago, especially about the National Family Health Survey?
India’s hungry children are likely to have lower cognitive skills, grow up to be weakened workers, suffer from chronic illnesses and die prematurely, according to the United Nations Children’s Fund. Hunger stalks them into adulthood too: 21 percent of all Indians are undernourished, according to Ifpri, up from 20 percent a decade ago. All of which costs the country about $68 billion a year, or almost 4 percent of GDP, according to Veena S. Rao, who heads nutrition initiatives for the government of Karnataka, the Indian state that encompasses the city of Bangalore.
India has collected reliable and consistent national data on nutrition since 1972, soon after setting minimum daily intakes of about 2,100 calories a day for city residents, who are assumed to be less physically active. The level for rural- dwellers was pegged at 2,400 calories on the basis that tilling fields, harvesting crops and drawing water require greater exertion.
Only in 1999-2000 did the average urban Indian meet the target -- and that may have been due to a counting error, according to the National Sample Survey Office, a branch of the statistics ministry. Rural Indians never have, and have seen their intake slide to 2,020 calories in 2010, from a high of 2,266 calories in 1973, according to Bloomberg calculations based on data from the office.

A National Nutrition Monitoring Bureau study in nine states that make up the majority of India’s malnourished population showed a steeper decline, with average rural calorie counts falling to about 1,900 in 2005 from 2,340 in 1979. Daily protein intake dropped to 49 grams (1.5 ounces) from 63 grams.

The global average is 77 grams, according to the UN’s Food and Agricultural Organization. The worldwide average daily caloric intake is about 2,800 calories a day.
Calories are a blunt tool for understanding malnourishment, according to Angus Deaton, a Princeton economist who has studied India closely. While gains against malnourishment largely stalled between 1999 and 2005, two earlier surveys showed dropping calorie counts even as nourishment indicators improved, he said.

That suggests “the real focus should be on improving health, not just improving calorie counts,” Deaton said in a May 21 interview.

Indian lifestyles have changed since the early 1970’s, he said. More people in rural areas own bicycles, saving energy moving around and transporting things. Farm machinery is more widespread, cutting down on tilling and planting by hand. Ailments like malaria and diarrhea are less common as the supply of potable water improved.

“If you’re doing less manual labor, if your children are falling sick less often, then you need fewer calories,” Deaton said. “This is a natural progression of the Indian diet. Focusing just on calories is misleading.
Not everyone agrees. Utsa Patnaik, a professor at New Delhi-based Jawaharlal Nehru University and author of “The Republic of Hunger,” said that the decline in calorie consumption is the result of a shortage of food availability, and a capitalist economy that hasn’t spread the benefits of India’s economic boom equitably.

Her research shows that per-capita availability of rice, wheat and other food-grains in India has fallen from 177 kilograms in the early 1990s to 153 kilos in 2004 -- about what it was in 1934. Much of the deterioration in food security has come after Singh began opening India’s economy to free-market competition.

“Forty years of efforts to raise how much food-grains Indians are able to eat has been destroyed by a mere dozen years of economic reform,” Patnaik said.
This is where the politics come in and that's why I'm looking for a rejoinder. The lady does not say what would have happened if there was no economic reforms? She can't seem to understand that if her figures are accurate, then it could also be due to the fact that the population has gone up and the foodgrain production has plateaued on account of lack of reforms in the agri sector which has resulted in one of the lowest per hectare yields in the world.
The government has expanded subsidy programs, spending about $11 billion in 2011 -- about 5 percent of the central government’s $231 billion budget -- to buy and distribute food at below-market prices to people officially designated as poor.

More than 30 investigations by the National Human Rights Commission, the Supreme Court and anti-corruption agencies such as the Central Bureau of Investigation have concluded that the public distribution is riddled with graft. As much as 40 percent of food purchased for the poor doesn’t reach them, according to the UN’s Standing Committee on Nutrition.

“Subsidies don’t reach the poor. Trickle-down doesn’t reach the poor. Nothing reaches the poor,” said Yogendra Alagh, an economist in Gujarat state who first proposed in 1972 the calorie guidelines that still govern food policy in India. “In the past two or three decades, we’ve regressed backwards into a country that can’t even guarantee a poor, pregnant woman a glass of milk so the next generation isn’t born stunted.”

At the same time, the number of rich is swelling. Households with more than $1 million in assets jumped 21 percent in the past year alone, a May 31 Boston Consulting Group report shows.
As usual the growth of the number of rich is somehow always painted as being responsible for the plight of the poor. I love it the way that capitalist news outlets love to take a leftist POV when it comes to discussing the plight of the poor in India. May be Micheal Bloomberg should ponder whether the number of the poor and homeless in Big Apple has a direct correlation to the fat bonuses that investment bankers take on the Street?
Across India, the percentage of daily calorie needs being met by fruit and vegetables dropped between 1993 and 2010, according to the National Sample Survey Office. Rural families get 1.8 percent of their energy from those foods, from 2 percent in 1993, the data show. For city-dwellers, the share fell to 2.6 percent to 3.3 percent.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Yes I have seen those povertywallah statements and personally I'm skeptical on the math. The population has less than doubled from 680 Million in 1979 to 1,170 million 2011. In the same time Wheat production has gone from 34 million tons to 92 million tons. This is a 2.8 times increase. Rice production has gone from 41 million to 104 million a 2.6 times increase. Both these figures tell me that per capita grain availability has increased.

What ever the povertywallahs are seeing, it is a statistically manufactured item. No doubt if you torture the numbers long enough you can make them say what you want.

In terms of nutrition at least here in S.TN food availability has increased quite dramatically. Very few starve on the streets as they used too. While mal-nutition is slow in coming down, it is coming down and is dramatically lower than 1970's. The treatment of women and women s health is light years better. Due to this physical stature is slowly returning to the World/European norm. In terms of stature Indians follow the European profile and not the SE Asian one.
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Post by Singha »

availability is different from need. 153kg of rice per capita(assuming it as gospel truth)...nerly 500gms of rice / person / day. do i eat that much....I figure I eat 200gms of rice a day and another <200gms of wheat in the form of bread and roti. my kids eat far less than that. india is nearly half kids and younger types.

from a bare bones rice + mustard oil drops + salt + banana(if available) diet people must have moved on to a more costlier diet now wherein vegetables, leaves, egg, curd, milk, nonveg play a role.

these povertywallah NGO types always want to the keep ball rolling and their grants coming.
scenes like this from british era are what they want now, as a tandoor to bake their funding and political agenda bread.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... op-420.jpg
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