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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 05:19
by Paul
http://globalengage.org/attachments/837 ... kistan.pdf

Islamic Politics and U.S. Policy in Pakistan’s
North-West Frontier
the mma’s islamist governance
The Rise of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal
The Islamization Program: Ambitions and Realities
Islam as Din: The Islamization Agenda Writ Large
Constraints on Islamization
In Summary: The Limits and Lessons of Islamist ‘Moderation’
New Islamists and the Return of Pashtun Nationalism. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The Rise of the Neo-Taliban
The Return of Pashtun Nationalism
Pushtun Nationalism....This was first proposed by BRF long time ago....... :eek:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 05:47
by ramana
^^^ Lot of visitors over the years on BRF and hence BR speak gets mainstreamized.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 06:46
by SSridhar
So, TSP has survived the tumultuous and often very painful period following 9/11. There were many predictions of its demise, including one within six months some years back. But, it survived taking a heavy toll on itself and others, most notably India. Terrorism in India has increased exponentially after 9/11 and the only and direct source for that is TSP. One has to accuse the US also because of the support it has extended to that wretched abomination of a nation, without which it would have been history.

Things are looking better once again for TSP. KSA is willing to extend a credit of USD 15 B. Nawaz & Co will now demand a reconstruction fund from the US and its allies and most likely get another USD 15 B (matching the KSA creditline, which the US & KSA always do in consort for TSP). A TSP-backed, US and China supported Taliban regime will sooner or later assume power in Kabul. Unlike last time, China will play a decisive role in Afghanistan now and in future. The US can do nothing now about creeping Chinese influence because they want to safely extract themselves from Afghanistan first before doing anything else. The US anxiety over Chinese influence will be milked by the Pakistanis. Unlike in 1989-1990, there is no Massoud in the Northern Alliance and it is too decimated for India, Iran and Russia to do anything about.

I feel that once again TSP has skillfully protected itself against very heavy odds in the last ten years. Some may feel that it is internally weakened. But, if the purer and greener variety has gained ascendancy in this period, how can that be an internal weakening ? We missed a great opportunity to cause serious and irreperable damage to Pakistan during these ten years by our passivity and submission to the US interests. We will reap the bitterest fruits of our incompetence shortly.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 06:47
by arun

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 07:19
by Paul
Ssridharji, It is too early to predict that the going will be smooth from now on for TSP.

NS in his earlier terms fell out with GIK first time and Mushy secondtime. His record is unpredictable as how who he will go with. The action this time could be in Sindh where MQM and PPP are with out chairs this time and the battleground may move there if Sindhi nationalism starts to resurface.

Key Question is how long will NS army ceasefire last??? Even the anti India bogey is not enought to paper their differences here.

If NS does not mend fences with the west and promises to behave, he will not get any sweeteners from US. China + KSA is too narrow a base for TSP to maintain stability.....JMT. However, Obama in his speech yesterday did say PAkistan relationship is a very important one and needs to regrown.

As for India, there was not much to do...until US forces were in Af-Pak region there was considerable pressure to back off from activating eastern borders for TSP. Get ready for insurgency round 2....deploy aerostat balloons, UAVs, redeploy BSF in J&K towns etc. for this round will go on for another 4-6 years.

The opportunity may come up now if Karzai/NA heat up the Durand line with US blessings. Second question is, will they be willing to do so??? India did the right thing by not acceding to Karzai request for arms....Karzai called Pakistan a brother and India a close friend....need to be careful here.

What is Iran thinking on Taliban round 2 now?

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 07:33
by Paul
But, if the purer and greener variety has gained ascendancy in this period, how can that be an internal weakening ?
PPP and MQM are the losers.....will they stay quiet and watch on the sidelines. ANP...does not matter for now.

Army has options with PTI if NS does not come to heel. How will they manage these contradictions?

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 07:47
by abhijitm
Nikhil T wrote: Watching the parts about TSP makes you realize how utterly useless and misguided Aman ki Asha type programs are. Short of eliminating every radical in TSP, there will never be peace.
AkA is Indian propaganda. Its target audience is not you and me.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 08:05
by Anindya
SSji - I think that today's Pakistan is far stringer than what it was 10 years ago. Especially, since it has a far more ruthless green army that now will use it access to 100-150 nuclear weapons to blackmail India and the rest of the world. Expect Pakistan over the next few years to up the ante by some faked (or real) nuclear terrorism of some kind.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 08:12
by arun
Image

Image

From here:

Dark ages: The heat is on, the power is off

:wink: Surely the time is ripe for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to implement the "Koranic Science" idea’s of former Director of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, who propounded the theory that Jinn’s / Djinn’s / Djinni’s / Genies could be tapped for energy :lol: (Djinn Energy).

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 08:15
by RCase
From Islam Khatrey mein hai to Muslims Khatrey mein hai

Altaf Bhai complaining about the homeland created for the muslims of the Indian subcontinent.
Addressing the issue of his stay away from home, Altaf told his party members that his family members went abroad to save their lives.
He said his family worked hard while living in a foreign land.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 10:05
by Prem
http://www.beta.dawn.com/news/1013696/g ... drenGujrat school van cylinder blast kills 17 children[/b] —
GUJRAT: At least 17 children were killed and 10 others sustained injuries when a gas cylinder installed in the school van they were travelling in exploded near Gujrat’s Kot Fateh area on Saturday, DawnNews reported.According to police, the incident occurred when the van suddenly caught fire after its gas cylinder exploded.Initial reports said the school van was carrying at least 20 to 25 children.Moreover, rescue teams reached the site of the incident and started their operations. Injured children were shifted to a nearby hospit

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:03
by krishnan
why that news here ???

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:07
by member_20292
Paul wrote: India did the right thing by not acceding to Karzai request for arms....Karzai called Pakistan a brother and India a close friend....need to be careful here.

What is Iran thinking on Taliban round 2 now?

not. india should arm the afghans.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:08
by Patni
First the incident:

Stansted Airport: RAF fighter jets scrambled after 'threat' on flight from Pakistan to Manchester
Two RAF Typhoon fighters were scrambled as the flight from Pakistan, with 297 passengers on board, was diverted to Stansted airportTwo RAF Typhoon fighters were scrambled as the flight from Pakistan, with 297 passengers on board, was diverted to Stansted airport
A British man was arrested today on the tarmac over an alleged bomb threat on a flight bound for Manchester.

Two RAF Typhoon fighters were scrambled as the flight from Pakistan, with 297 passengers on board, was diverted to Stansted airport in Essex after two men reportedly tried to enter the pilot’s cabin.

With helicopters overhead, and the plane held a mile from the main terminal, armed officers stormed the Pakistan International Airlines jet and removed two suspects.

The men, aged 30 and 41 and both British nationals, were put in paper suits with bags over their hands and arms.

The terrifying incident was sparked when crew relayed an emergency code.

Passengers on flight PK709 from Lahore said the men became involved in a fight before trying to force their way into the locked cockpit.

PIA sources told Geo News, Pakistan that the suspects had threatened to bomb the Boeing 777.

A stewardess alerted the pilot, Captain Nadeem Sufi, whose distress signal triggered the security alert.

Superintendent Darrin Tomkins said: “Essex Police were notified that a threat had been made to the safety of passengers.

"The plane was diverted to Stansted and military aircraft escorted it until it landed.

“Armed police entered the aircraft and arrested two suspects on suspicion of endangerment of an aircraft. The men are British nationals.”

One passenger, Umari Nauman, said: “Cabin crew informed us that the men tried to come into the cockpit.

"They got into a bit of an argument with the crew and made threats.”

Police sealed the perimeter at ­Stansted and a bomb disposal team was dispatched.

An MoD spokesman confirmed the jets were launched from RAF Coningsby but later said the incident had become a police matter.
And the paki spin:

PIA plane lands at Manchester airport, probe continues

LONDON: A Pakistan International Airline (PIA) passenger plane, which was forced to land at a London airport after two travelers threatened to ‘explode the plane’ during their argument, has now arrived at Manchester.

According to the sources, British police arrested two people on suspicion of endangerment of aircraft after diverting Manchester-bound PIA flight PK-709 to land at Stansted airport following a mid-air alert.

Both the British nationals of Pakistani origin were arrested after they reportedly had a spat with the crew, the sources said. The police continued the investigation with the two arrested air travelers.

Later, the aircraft departed for its destination (Manchester).

According to PIA sources the suspects had allegedly threatened to bomb the plane with explosives. A panicked stewardess alarmed the pilot, Captain Nadeem Sufi, who sent a stress signal to London control tower triggering the security alert, which led to the force-landing of the plane.

There were 297 passengers and 11 crew members were on the plane.

Initially Essex Police said that a man namely Mohammad Shafqat, and a woman, Ammara Ashraf were arrested and removed from the plane, which is on an isolated runway at the airport.

Reportedly, it all started after Mohammad Shafqat and Ammara Ashraf, traveling with a number of other family members, engaged in a hot argument, which went out of control forcing the crew to intervene, who were warned to stay out of it.

The quarreling family went as far threatening the crew that they were going to blow the plane up, which caused this whole panic. However, they were released after police found out it was a petty domestic squabble.


The incident was not believed to be terrorism-related, the officials said.

"There was a family of eight to 10 people on the plane and they were wrangling among each other," the PIA source said. "When PIA staff approached them and asked them to calm down, they told them to go away otherwise they would blow up the plane. "PIA staff became scared and they raised the alarm to avoid any untoward situation."

A passenger Nauman Rizvi told Geo News that two passengers who had tried to move toward the cockpit during the flight were handcuffed and arrested once the plane landed. Rizvi said that after the men were taken away, the flight crew told passengers there had been a terrorist threat and that the pilot had raised an alarm.

Later, there were reports that another couple of men apart from the fussing spouses were also arrested amid the panic. Two men, aged 30 and 41, were held on suspicion of endangerment of an aircraft, Essex Police said

Earlier, Royal Air Force (RAF) Typhoon jets were scrambled to intercept the PIA plane, which escorted the Manchester-bound flight to Stansted.

Flight PK709 from Lahore was due to land at Manchester Airport in north west England at 1230 GMT. The plane was diverted to Stansted airport, east of central London, according to a Manchester Airport spokesman.

A spokesman for the British Ministry of Defence said that Typhoon jets had been launched from a Royal Air Force base after the incident was signaled by the plane's crew, shortly before the plane was due to land in Manchester at 1230 GMT.

"Typhoon aircraft from RAF Coningsby have been launched to investigate an incident involving an aircraft in UK airspace," the MoD spokesman said.

After the plane landed, the MoD spokesman said the incident was now a police matter and "our involvement is over".

Typhoon planes can be scrambled if the pilot or crew of a passenger aircraft sends out a passenger signal, he added.

Essex Police, who are responsible for the area where Stansted is located, said an incident had occurred on a flight and they were investigating.

"The plane diverted to Stansted Airport has now landed at the airport. Police + partners are continuing to respond," Essex Police in southeast England said in a Twitter message.

All the passengers were disembarked at the Stansted Airport and no one has been hurt, an airport spokesman said.

According to a statement issued by Pakistani High Commission, a team of the officers was sent to the Stansted Airport to provide any consular assistance to the passengers that may be required. The High Commission is keeping the authorities informed back in Pakistan and is also in touch with the PIA office in London, the statement added.

The news comes two days after a soldier was hacked to death on a London street in an incident the government are treating as a terrorist incident.
So was just a public display of how loving and caring lahori paki families are and stupid pilot and brits dont understand paki ways of showing wholesome family cohesiveness! Only a paki will threaten to blow away plane while his / her whole family is on-board. ( well maybe not whole family as 8-10 members does sound a bit smallish for a paki family in britistan).

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:11
by SSridhar
Paul wrote:Ssridharji, It is too early to predict that the going will be smooth from now on for TSP.
Paul ji, I didn't mean it that way. It is a fact that TSP chooses a difficult path for itself because it is willing to cut its very nose to spite what it considers Indian face. So, it has been on a continuous downward spiral from the time it passed the Lahore resolution. At times, the downward spiral had been faster and at other times slower, nevertheless a downward spiral it has been. So, the going is never going to be smoother. What I meant was that it has staved off, like many times before, what looked like another 1971, probably even much more ominous than that. That kind of direct existential threat has passed off, at least for now.
NS in his earlier terms fell out with GIK first time and Mushy secondtime. His record is unpredictable as how who he will go with. The action this time could be in Sindh where MQM and PPP are with out chairs this time and the battleground may move there if Sindhi nationalism starts to resurface.
You are right about Nawaz Sharif. He is capable of digging his own grave. He is authoritarian, corrupt, and a supporter of jihadis and very violent sectarian elements. He has no faith in institutions as his handling of CJP Sajid Ali Shah showed. He wanted to crown himself to be the Caliph in c. 1998 when he had the brutal majority. These streaks of him will not take long to resurface and might lead to clashes especially when he does not have the kind of majority as he got in c. 1997.

But, I have another take on the Sindh or mohajir nationalism and how it might be tackled now. In his first term, Nawaz Sharif handled the mohajir violence with an iron hand in Karachi and set up ATC courts with sweeping military powers to prosecute them. Later, in his second term, he appointed a mohajir as his COAS hoping he would thus placate the alienated mohajirs and also protect his flanks because he thought that a mohajir without a power base would not resort to an army coup, especially when he had been elevated overlooking three Pashtun & Punjabi Generals. It did not work in the end. So, Nawaz Sharif might have learnt some lessons.

He would probably choose a Punjabi general this time to take over from Kayani in September, 2013. More than that, I expect that Nawaz Sharif would use his powerful jihadi friends to tackle the mohajirs in Karachi, Hyderabad and urban Sindh. The TTP is today as equally strong in the Sind as the mohajirs. The peace talks are already on by GoP, PA, KP provincial government etc. That way, Nawaz Sharif would not get a bad name unlike last time.

As for PPP, it will not pose any worthwhile threat to Nawaz Sharif in the Sind. Zardari would have to hurriedly exit TSP on the last day of his Presidency because any delay would land him in jail. His son Bilawal would be in a self-imposed exile and would not have the guts to return to TSP any time soon. PPP is in complete disarray.
Key Question is how long will NS army ceasefire last??? Even the anti India bogey is not enough to paper their differences here.
NS was quick to fire the first salvo against the PA as soon as the election results were announced, claiming that the PA must be subservient to his civilian rule. He hoped that in the exuberance of the first successful democratic transition in their wreteched country, this would be accepted. His further statements on India alarmed the PA and Kayani had to meet him and remind him to go slow over India. NS wants some leeway from the PA against India as he understands that if at all any country can do something to alleviate the deep economic and structural problems in TSP, it is India and India alone. The politician's instincts are to look for votes in the next elections. But, the PA may not be so forthcoming. This is going to be a very difficult tightrope walk for NS because he has to lift TSP's economy from the morass. Let's wait and watch. GoI can exploit the situation beautifully but it is too timid to play for even moderate stakes.
Karzai called Pakistan a brother and India a close friend . . .
I do not think we should parse every statement too minutely. These statements are made in various contexts for various reasons. We should see the overall thrust of policies and actions.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:22
by Patni
krishnan wrote:why that news here ???
The gujrat mentioned in report is a City in Pakistan.

Gujrat, is a city in Pakistan. It is the capital of Gujrat District and the Gujrat Tehsil subdivision in the Punjab Province. not to be confused with our State of Gujarat.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:50
by krishnan
the place mentioned is in india as per google

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 12:52
by krishnan
Kot Fatta is a city and a municipal council in Bathinda district in the Indian state of Punjab. The town is the second railway station on the Bathinda-Delhi railway line.It is located on the Bathinda-Mohali ...

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 13:58
by Lalmohan
The bus in incident is in Pakistan

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 14:24
by Rajdeep
Reportedly, it all started after Mohammad Shafqat and Ammara Ashraf, traveling with a number of other family members, engaged in a hot argument, which went out of control forcing the crew to intervene, who were warned to stay out of it.

The quarreling family went as far threatening the crew that they were going to blow the plane up, which caused this whole panic. However, they were released after police found out it was a petty domestic squabble.
What is this lahori logic of blowing up the plane , when they were told to not create a scene on an international flight ?
Maybe the momin were high on jesus isa juice :rotfl:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 14:43
by Lalmohan
pindi chana fuelled pak_mardangi coupled with brit_pak sense of entitlement...

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 17:36
by Peregrine
.
SSridhar Ji,
India did the right thing by not acceding to Karzai request for arms.
In respect of the above I would hope that India does not accede to any Afghanistan/Karzai’s requests for Arms as – just like it happened with the Russian Equipment with the Russian Armed Forces and even the Afghanistan Army of that time – these Arms and Equipment will find their way to the Al Qaeda – Taliban – other Pakistani & Pakistan Based Terrorists.

I am all for Indian Aid in respect of Education, Health, Infrastructure,Welfare and other Civilian Areas but would be extremely weary of Indian Arms Aid to Afghanistan.

Cheers Image

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 17:48
by Peregrine
.
Li Keiqang’s visit : In a slip-up, CDA sends invoice to China mission

Pakistan tleating China as Lowel than Nadil, Shallowel than the "Do P" Puddle, Smallel than the Moong Bean, Mole Bittel than Aloe etc. etc. Fliend.

Cheels Image

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 18:01
by SSridhar
Peregrine ji, i did not make the statement you have quoted.

I understand your anxiety about arms ending up at wrong places. The moot point is how strong willed is the ANA to fight the Taliban if it comes to that. This is a chicken-or-egg situation. Somebody may argue that if we do not strengthen the ANA, it will not fight. In any case, initially, the ANA will have enough arms & ammunitions to carry on the campaign. But, if India chooses to help groups fighting the Taliban (such as the ANA in this case after a careful assessment) and at a later date, I would welcome it. Karzai has asked for artillery pieces and bridge-laying equipment, which, IMO, are OK. We had supplied arms to the NA before and even the Najibullah government.

The real fear is more sophisticated US equipment falling into TSPA hands as war leftovers/wastage or even by sinister US design.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 18:12
by shyamd
SS ji, did you see the Vice documentary on the ANA. Situation in the south looks like everyone knows its heading the Taliban way. In fact I am told that the Northern Alliance is re-activating and re-arming for the last year. I think it is heading back to the NA vs Talebs.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 18:34
by SSridhar
shyamd, I know that the attrition rate within the ANA is uncomfortably & alarmingly high. The absence of Massoud is a big blow to the NA. Is Dostum still eager to fight ?

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 18:48
by shyamd
^^ Its not just that - the ANA tried and failed to recruit Pakhtuns into the forces. Only 2-3% are pashtun's in the ANSF currently. But thats not even half of the problems:

This was released 2 weeks ago and was shot in Dec 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKHPTHx0ScQ

I really don't know the specifics of their re-activation but it has definitely been happening for the last year or so. And as we have seen for the last 3 or 4 months - the taliban targets are former Northern Alliance commanders or current police chiefs or Army walla's. In fact in the video above, you can see the ANSF travelling with pics of Dostum and Massoud in their cars/bases etc.

Dostum and the rest of the NA are already preparing, the fight is coming to them.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 20:21
by CRamS
SSridhar wrote:
I feel that once again TSP has skillfully protected itself against very heavy odds in the last ten years. Some may feel that it is internally weakened. But, if the purer and greener variety has gained ascendancy in this period, how can that be an internal weakening ?

We missed a great opportunity to cause serious and irreperable damage to Pakistan during these ten years by our passivity and submission to the US interests. We will reap the bitterest fruits of our incompetence shortly.
SSJi, if I were to point out to one seminal event that brought about survival of TSP post 9/11, it was what happened a few weeks to months after 9/11. I distinctly recall Bush & Co were making a lot of noises about going after terrorists & their sponsors wherever they are. A BBC reporter even asked Al Quailin Paveel whether Kashmir terrorists was on the agenda. He said yes without actually saying so. Personally speaking, I was optimistic that for the fist time since independence, India and US are on the same page visa vi TSP, and India's TSP problem could be solved, and India meets its tryst with destiny.

Then a few weeks later everything changed. TSP became a munna, and the same Al Quailin Paveel did a shocking equal equal on how both India and TSP are US's munnas. War criminals like Rumsfeld were even more condescending.

All of this emboldened TSP so much that they brazenlt attacked J&K legislature sometime in October 2001, to show that they are still king in J&K, boosted the morale of the APHC rats and assorted India hating Kashmiri Muslim scum, and to rub salt to India's humiliation, Al Quailin Paveel described that state sponsored terrorist attack against a democratic institution as "an Indian facility in Kashmir". Of course, lots of other things followed, notably, the Kundz air lift of TSPA terrorists etc.

I have no "recently released documents" to rely on, but I can bet you, in the intervening month or so post 9/11, a decision was made at the highest levels of US govt, that TSP munna has to be protected and the military equilibrium between India and TSP must not be disturbed as a result of the so called "global war on terror". So all of US ruling elite, from govt to Pentagon to CIA to state dept to think tanks and of course media did a Gobblesian propaganda rope trick in the manner in which they protected and propped up TSP visa vi India.

BTW: watched that excellent NDTV (for once I won't call it UndyTV) documentary by that Indian journalist gal on Afghanistan post US withdrawal. Even Amanullah Saleh makes the same point. US propaganda that TSP must not be pushed hard cannot be taken at face value.

The only nit pick I have on that documentary is that she slips into that DDM mode towards the end where she quotes and takes Kiyani at face value that TSP's greatest threat is internal and not India. India repeating this rubbish only makes look so desperate that TSP will see reason and spare us from terror.

As the events post 9/11 show, TSP has not only survived, but thrived using its terror trump card against India and Afghanistan. Its not going to give that up unless it is forced to.,

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 21:15
by sadhana

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 21:39
by ramana
shyamd wrote:SS ji, did you see the Vice documentary on the ANA. Situation in the south looks like everyone knows its heading the Taliban way. In fact I am told that the Northern Alliance is re-activating and re-arming for the last year. I think it is heading back to the NA vs Talebs.
Its defacto Blackwill (kala vasiyat) Plan B in operation. It leaves the South Afghanistan areas to Taliban. We had reams discussing its pros and cons and yet when it is happening we dont see it for what it is.


It means US is allowing Taliban their natural space in South Afghanistan which is the Pashtun homeland.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 25 May 2013 22:22
by BijuShet
From Tribune News (posting in full) Now TSPians want to bring their explosives inshore to US homeland. Indiana Gov is smart and knows TSPians well. Smart choice to protect his state.
Fatima Group determined to invest in the United States, with or without incentives
By Saad Hasan - Published: May 22, 2013
KARACHI : Fatima Group – Pakistan’s sole manufacturer of calcium ammonium nitrate (CAN) – plans to go ahead with a multimillion dollar investment in the United States with or without an incentive package, chairman of the Group’s fertiliser units Arif Habib told The Express Tribune on Tuesday.

The group is part of Midwest Fertilizer Corporation, which seeks to build a $1.75-billion fertiliser plant in Indiana and was banking on financial incentives from the State.

But Indiana Governor Mike Pence said last week that the package had been put on hold because of reports that militants continue to use CAN as improvised explosive devices (IEDs) against US troops in Afghanistan.

“The decision came as a surprise for us. We have taken all the steps to address their concerns and are continuously engaged with them,” said Habib, a well-known Pakistani investor. “We will appeal against the decision with state authorities and try to convince them.”

But, he said, the investment in which Fatima Group has a $225 million equity stake was not entirely dependent on the incentive package. “We feel it’s a good investment opportunity. It is a profitable venture. And more than everything else it’s positive for Pakistan’s image.”

The statement of the governor of Indiana coincided with major symposium organised by the Government of Pakistan in Islamabad on Monday to pacify concerns about use of CAN in IEDs.

Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani himself defended CAN production in Pakistan, saying that it was not the sole reason IEDs were being used in Afghanistan.

He also highlighted the efforts of the Fatima Group to bring down the nitrogen content in CAN, whereas other countries in the region were producing fertiliser with much higher content.

Fatima Group’s fertiliser divisions – Fatima Fertilizer and Pakarab Fertilizer – together produce 600,000 tons of CAN annually, enough to make over 20 million IEDs, according to estimates.

Ammonium nitrate was used in the bomb that blew up a government building in 1995 in Oklahoma City which resulted in 168 fatalities and then in the Bali bombings in 2002.

Chemical composition of CAN is 26% nitrogen, 13% nitrate, 13% ammonical, 10% calcium among other ingredients. CAN is often used as a substitute for ammonium nitrate, a fertiliser, according to Pakarab Fertilizer’s website.

Company officials insist that many other chemicals can as easily be exploited to make IEDs. Under US directives, Fatima Group changed the packaging of its fertiliser bags so it can easily be identified at the border.

“Obviously there are some groups behind all the pressure directed towards Fatima,” said another company official. “They want a share of the market.”

Pakistan accounts for just 0.1% of the world’s total production of ammonium nitrate. A lot of other countries in the region produce high intensity ammonium nitrate like Iran and Uzbekistan.

The company has also changed the colour of CAN grain on US insistence.

National Fertilizer Development Centre (NFDC) Research Officer Ahmad Ali Khan said stopping CAN production can be disastrous for the agriculture sector especially in areas facing water scarcity.

“The easiest way to understand its significance is that where a bag of urea yields an efficiency of 20% to 25%, CAN yields over 50%,” he said. “In any case, CAN makes up miniscule part of the total fertiliser output of the country.”

Pakistan’s annual demand for urea stands at seven million tons while it is producing around 5.5 million. Stopping CAN production will mean spending $2.5 billion on import of fertilisers.

According to reports, just 200 to 300 tons of the 600,000 tons of CAN produced in Pakistan could have actually been used in developing IEDs.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 22nd, 2013.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 00:59
by Peregrine
SSridhar wrote:Peregrine ji, i did not make the statement you have quoted.

I understand your anxiety about arms ending up at wrong places. The moot point is how strong willed is the ANA to fight the Taliban if it comes to that. This is a chicken-or-egg situation. Somebody may argue that if we do not strengthen the ANA, it will not fight. In any case, initially, the ANA will have enough arms & ammunitions to carry on the campaign. But, if India chooses to help groups fighting the Taliban (such as the ANA in this case after a careful assessment) and at a later date, I would welcome it. Karzai has asked for artillery pieces and bridge-laying equipment, which, IMO, are OK. We had supplied arms to the NA before and even the Najibullah government.

The real fear is more sophisticated US equipment falling into TSPA hands as war leftovers/wastage or even by sinister US design.
SSridhar Ji :

1. Sorry for not having the “Line” as “quoted” by Paul Ji.

2. I trust you are aware that ANA has already been infiltrated by a number of “Al Qaeda-Taliban” Sleepers-Sympathisers or whatever.

As such fulfilling Karzai’s request for Artillery Pieces and Bridge Laying Equipment could well land in the hands of the “Terrorists” and as such one does feel that the India will have to have “fool proof” Guarantees to ensure that these items do not fall into the hands of the Terrorists. I am sure that such guarantees will not be available.

3. Regarding the sophisticated US equipment : It is evident that a considerable quantity of Arms, Ammunition, Equipment (Including Hummers) meant to reach US Forces in Afghanistan have ended up in the hands of the Terrorists. In addition it is a given that the US Forces will leave an appreciable quantity of the Equipment, as I have stated earlier, “Officially” in the hands of the Pakistani Armed Forces not so much as leftovers/wastage but most definitely by “sinister US design”.

A such all India should do, until it can devise a “fool proof” system, is to withhold any forms of “major” Military Aid to Karzai.

Cheers Image

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 01:02
by Peregrine
Water. Now!
Cities and settlements across Pakistan are increasingly facing water quality and sanitation challenges. The Pakistan Council of Research in Water Resources, in its 2007 report on the National Water Quality Monitoring Programme, found unsafe drinking water in, at least, one water source tested in each of the 23 major cities it surveyed (none of the water tested in Bahalwapur, Kasur, Multan, Lahore, Sheikhupura and Ziarat was found safe).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 02:44
by member_20292
Peregrine wrote:
A such all India should do, until it can devise a “fool proof” system, is to withhold any forms of “major” Military Aid to Karzai.

Cheers Image
Arrey there is no fool proof system. The only system is the one that the entire world follows. The entire world arms the enemy of their own enemy.

China arms Paki.
China arms North Korea.

many such examples.

India should not try to reinvent the wheel, but simply do what a cold blooded ruthless emperor following sun tzu and chanakya would do. We must arm Afghanistan.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 08:53
by Hari Seldon
India should start building Pu-processing N-reactors in Afgn citing a pre-existing treaty for such from Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time. A few working bum prototypes wouldn't hurt too badly either....

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 09:00
by arun
The Express Tribune on the current demand and supply position of electricity in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
May misery: Load shedding and heat spell continue

The national shortfall is still around 7,000 MW, as generation stand at 9,500 MW and demand at over 16,000 MW.
Earlier in April, the Express Tribune reported the installed electricity generation in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as being 23,500 MW:
Energy: Power generation capacity expected to jump 46% by 2018

Pakistan’s power generation capacity will increase to 34,200 megawatts (MW), compared to the approximately 23,500MW today.
Why cannot a demand of 16,000 MW be met with an installed capacity of 23,500 MW :?:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 09:11
by SSridhar
Power crisis heating up - Edit, DT
Just to add to what arun has posted above.
The power breakdown has reached unprecedented levels, where the country is plunged into darkness for ten hours at night and is rendered still in the day for seven to eight hours. {So, the whole country suffers from 18 hour power cut every single day}
The power generating units of Chichon ki Malian and Neelum-Jehlum power plant together can produce 950 MWs of electricity. These units can be completed in a short span of time. {Neelum-Jhelum can be brought online in a shot span of time ? What is the Editor smoking these days ?}

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 09:15
by SSridhar
arun wrote:Why cannot a demand of 16,000 MW be met with an installed capacity of 23,500 MW :?:
Because, 70% of power comes from hydel sources and there is no water in the dams. Then, there is little gas for gas-based generating units. There is no worthwhile thermal power.

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 09:17
by Raja Bose
SSridhar wrote:
arun wrote:Why cannot a demand of 16,000 MW be met with an installed capacity of 23,500 MW :?:
Because, 70% of power comes from hydel sources and there is no water in the dams. Then, there is little gas for gas-based generating units. There is no worthwhile thermal power.
Tsk tsk, all that pindi channa fermenting in Paki momeens' stomachs going to waste. :mrgreen:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Posted: 26 May 2013 09:39
by Agnimitra
SSridhar wrote:shyamd, I know that the attrition rate within the ANA is uncomfortably & alarmingly high. The absence of Massoud is a big blow to the NA. Is Dostum still eager to fight ?
Turkish Gulenists have been cultivating Dostum for at least 10 years now. They are also pro-Pak. So Dostum will play an interesting role now and not allow Iran-allied forces too much traction, while turning more and more pan-Turkic-Islamist.