India-US Relations : News and Discussion

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 12 Sep 2014 22:37

I was talking about that Sir CV Raman was a global citizen. The whole world (including Pakis) gets benefit from his research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raman_scattering

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Sep 2014 22:47

The term 'Global citizen' is a psy ops term to fool many nations. All the western nations protect their interest making sure that the globe is open for them.

Elite Indians had mistaken it for humanity -' manavatha' and thought that this is a real concept from the western elite.

The west was working on a intellectual revolution for the last 200 years so that science becomes part of their western thinking process. They worked with all third world scientist only to enhance their capabilities.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Sep 2014 22:59

Recently my advisor (boss now) was telling me that he heard that Indian faculty and scientists working at IISc (tata insti at that time) and some other science institutions in India wanted to give employment to Jewish scientists who were persecuted by hitler's Germany during WW II but the proposal was shot by the powers that be - the British higher-ups who were anti-Semitic.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 13 Sep 2014 01:22

matrimc wrote:Recently my advisor (boss now) was telling me that he heard that Indian faculty and scientists working at IISc (tata insti at that time) and some other science institutions in India wanted to give employment to Jewish scientists who were persecuted by hitler's Germany during WW II but the proposal was shot by the powers that be - the British higher-ups who were anti-Semitic.

Absolutely correct, but it is a sad story. C.V. Raman in fact got Max Born to come to Bangalore which he did. The British authorities were very much against Raman, most of them were old school British engineers who had no clue of what had happened in Physics. They were virulently against Raman and
said Born was a B grade out of work fellow and yes anti-Semitic comments were made. Born had not gotten his Nobel yet. Born stayed in India in the late 30's and wrote several beautiful papers in the Proceedings of the Indian Academy of Sciences a journal that Raman started. Born also collaborated with N.S. Nagendranath a Raman student who soon after left to head the Board of Education in Bihar and did not do anything after that. In fact Born developed what is now called Born-Infeld theory in Bangalore. But soon after there was a huge falling apart between Born and Raman. I do not wish to go into the details of this, but you can read it in a biography of Raman called Journey into Light.
Born left for the UK I think in 1938. I once took out the first few volumes of the Proceedings of the Indian Academy of Sciences at IISc, they are falling apart and in pieces and carefully as the pages were fragile, made a copy of the Born and Born-Nagendranath papers. Eventually IISc did not give Born a position and he left for Edinburgh in 1937 or thereabouts. I surmise he also blamed Raman for the fiasco. Raman also eventually severed his links with IISc and was famously heard to say that he would grow the trees in RRL( Raman Research Labs) so tall that he would never be able to see the IISc campus across the road( now Sir C. V. Raman road).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Born

What is even more sad is that Born wrote a classic undergraduate textbook called "Atomic Physics", he is very scathing of Raman when he talks of the Raman effect. He dismisses it in the book and says that a Russian discovered it before Raman. You can read it there it is a standard textbook and still published by Dover Press. It is hard to understand that a person who was befriended by Raman and taken out of Nazi Germany at personal risk and also someone who was shielded from the British authorities acts in this way. I understand Raman was a martinet of sorts but Born comes across as an ingrate who still kept his disagreements with Raman till his end.

Incidentally the singer Olivia Newton-John is the grand-daughter of Max Born. I however fear I went OT here, mods please delete this post if you find it not suited . Back to Gunjan Bagla.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 13 Sep 2014 05:30

matrimc wrote:What made internet popular was the graphical browser - mozilla - which was programmed by a croupier of students working on grad. ...

Was it Mosaic or Mozilla? Mark Andreesen worked on Mosaic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_%28web_browser%29

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Sep 2014 07:37

matrimc wrote:Recently my advisor (boss now) was telling me that he heard that Indian faculty and scientists working at IISc (tata insti at that time) and some other science institutions in India wanted to give employment to Jewish scientists who were persecuted by hitler's Germany during WW II but the proposal was shot by the powers that be - the British higher-ups who were anti-Semitic.

Did not Royal Family of Kerala offered Job to Einstein?

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 13 Sep 2014 07:47

It was Mosaic, developed in collaboration with the University of Illinois Supercomputing Center. Mozilla came far later and is an open source effort to go after Internet Explorer and resulted in the browser Firefox.

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Sep 2014 08:03

Timely reminder for our Prime Minister. All talk of “Natural Allies” aside, this prosecution clearly shows that US technological denial regime targeting India remains very much in place. If the rhetoric of “Natural Allies” is indeed true, where is the need for this prosecution ?:

US woman charged with spying for India

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Sep 2014 08:11

Moderators,

Chain of off topic posts on this thread. Needs urgent deletion of posts, including this one. Please do.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 13 Sep 2014 08:23

arun wrote:Timely reminder for our Prime Minister. All talk of “Natural Allies” aside, this prosecution clearly shows that US technological denial regime targeting India remains very much in place. If the rhetoric of “Natural Allies” is indeed true, where is the need for this prosecution ?:

US woman charged with spying for India

Oh come on, she was exporting sensitive tech without a license. We need to stop begging the US to lift their tech denial regimes. They'll do it when we can stand on our two feet and we have the proper infra and market. So in the meantime, we'll steal it. It's about time we start doing with the Russians and Chinese do and stop whining.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 13 Sep 2014 08:54

arun wrote:Timely reminder for our Prime Minister. All talk of “Natural Allies” aside, this prosecution clearly shows that US technological denial regime targeting India remains very much in place. If the rhetoric of “Natural Allies” is indeed true, where is the need for this prosecution ?:

US woman charged with spying for India

Its an old story from Oct 2013. Looks like a hit job from someone to rake this up now. Its a PTI story, so must be Congress feeding paid media. That women was neither charged with spying nor is it new news.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/fi ... lease.html

There were quality issues with the parts that Robert provided to the DoD.
...
As a result of the failed wing pins, the DoD grounded approximately 47 F-15 fighter aircraft for inspection and repair, at a cost estimated to exceed $150,000.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Sep 2014 09:37

Anant wrote:It was Mosaic, developed in collaboration with the University of Illinois Supercomputing Center. Mozilla came far later and is an open source effort to go after Internet Explorer and resulted in the browser Firefox.

Yes, it was Mosaic. One of the developers of Mosaic used to say "it is the killer app" and hence the open sourced version is called Mozilla (as opposed to the killer ape - godzilla).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Sep 2014 09:45

Cosmo_R wrote:Was it Mosaic or Mozilla? Mark Andreesen worked on Mosaic

Yes, corrected my post. The other is Eric Bina - he was the Paul Allen for Andreessen's Bill Gates (IMHO and all that) with a more introverted personality and consequently gets less credit.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 13 Sep 2014 09:49

SBajwa wrote:
by Yogi
Bajwa ji, no one thought of the internet apart from the US?

IIRC, it was the French who had the first networked phone system with keys on their phones to query an integrated network.
the Soviets and the eastern bloc had their own version of the internet. Part of the last Soviet 5 year plan was to create a national data line which if it had come to fruition would have equaled the US "internet" in size but it was not to be.

The first news of the Soviet coup came out through their "intenet".
by that logic we can go all the way back to telegraph and morse code and so forth.

Ok. let me put another angle to it. Which is commercial. USA has been most successful at building and selling large number of Cars, Planes, and other things and industry around it.

Just look at the SMART board idea (from other thread). A Canadian innovator gets a contract to supply the over head projectors and he set asides some of the profits for research and comes out with Smart Board (connected to Internet and saves the data for educators/students). Innovations and industry around them are happening at a large scales in USA/Canada as oppose to other places around the world.

Same thing with Shale gas exploration technology (in which even Ambani has invested money in Pennsylvania).
Or getting the oil out of the sand as in Alberta (Canada)/North Dakota (USA)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_oil_boom

Even as communications/planes/cars/etc were getting into physical shapes in other areas around the world (Benz

no downhill skiing plz. its not my "logic", dont side step, i provided facts which proved that other people had predated or were contemporaries in "thinking". The eastern bloc was the pioneer in many programming concepts in use today.

Now lets get into that "logic" of yours. Germannic tribe smitten "dudes" world over ding paens about how they brought "modern" stuff to the world. 200 years of international relevance and prominence built on top of loot and pillage somehow has brain washed people. Heck these same Americans who are of msjority Germannic tribe descent were hunter Gatherers when agriculture was in practice in the rest of the world for 5000 years. Hell these people were using roman numbers till 14th century.

in class, lineage and culture breed the present lot of Americans have nothing in similar with the Indians and Chinese. When the 15 secs of fame is over for these new kids on the block the Indians and Chinese will reclaim their top place in the world.

Indians vying to do equal equal with Americans or singing their praises should keep this in mind.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Sep 2014 10:01

vsunder ji: Thanks. Cross-posted your above post to Physics Thread in Tech-Econ forum. I hope it is OK. I would like to preserve the two references you gave.

Let me tie my post and vsunder's post to this thread to make it non-OT.

Just imagine if Indian science establishment was able to give to refuge to the persecuted German Scientists of Hiltelrian Germany. As a peaceful non-expansionist energy deficient country, India would have developed nuclear power not nuclear weapons. Bikini atolls would still be in existence, no NPT, and oil would have been used mostly for automobiles and West Asia would have been a lot more peaceful.

Well, The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
...
And that has made all the difference.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Sep 2014 17:16

This BS cake goes to the Deccan Herald on this:

US woman charged with spying for India

It was an American woman. NOT an Indian, or Indian-American. True.
It had nothing to do with the Indian government, and it had nothing to do with Indian Defense, or any product used by the Indian government or Indian Defense. India does not fly F-15s nor, AFAIK, CH-47s (those are almost as old as the Wright Flyer, BTW). It was not some critical technology that DRDO needed to make advances in technology. Those who got it, obviously didn't even have enough gyan to build things that wouldn't break.

India had absolutely no use for the info. This scam was where this Church (why is that church not indicted, I wonder..) had a member set up a scam company (probably qualified under Wimmen-Owned Small Bjinej) to supply sub-par parts made under false certifications abroad - I bet she didn't care if it was made in India, China, or Saudi Arabia. Her con-conspirator was in India, called Robert, was probably of the same church outfit, and they made some parts in a garage or cycle shop, probably.

If the drawings marked ITAR/NOFORN were indeed sent out of the US, the sender is in deep doo-doo.

To call this "spying" is traitorous, the Deccan Herald should be prosecuted.

AFAIK, ANYONE who sends ITAR stuff abroad, let alone knowingly sells faulty wing pins for airplanes, should expect to go to jail. I think GOI would gladly cooperate in the prosecution because "Robert"'s outfit damages India far more than the US, and is probably set up partly to fund conversionist activities as well.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Sep 2014 17:36

KLNMurthy wrote: "chip on the shoulder" originated when onetime Idli vendor K. Lakshmana Perumal Daniels, a native of old Machilipatnam via Kozhikode, who just happens to be an unknown hero of the American Revolutionary War,

Thanks! And most of those Cow Chips were intercepted by the Federal Govt. of the US of A, and used in the National Labs to reverse-engineer and come up with the brilliant invention, now known by its code name: Brookhaven-Sandia . Runs the whole nation and the entire system of Democracy! Later Brookhaven and Sandia went into the much watered-down versions called New Clear Weapons (obvious reasons).

So all US military Super Power also started with Indian technology and innovation onlee! Anyone notice the similarity in shape between flying idlis and Alien Flying Saucers? Undertake a pilgrimage 2 the holy shrine of Area 51 if u need ejjukashun!

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 14 Sep 2014 02:40

habal wrote:why do these jokers think India won't be tomorrow's Russia, Syria, Iraq or Libya ? In one such 'intertwined' photo Kerry & wife were seen dining with Assad & wife and the next moment he was campaigning for removing Assad, sanctions against Syria etc.

Perhaps god knows but when Modi is in USA, the UK officially wont be in existence and thus the UNSC P5 position will be up for grabs and Modi will arm twist ombaba to give it to India. Dreaming onlee.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Sep 2014 06:27

Pakistan is rapidly moving to the point of owning what is left of the United ****kingdom. They even control the British Parliament!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2014 07:07

UlanBatori wrote:Pakistan is rapidly moving to the point of owning what is left of the United ****kingdom. They even control the British Parliament!

Paki behavior in UK is getting weird. Some pakis in northern England were canvassing for one side of vote on Scottish referendum. At times I do wonder if pakis in UK are taking over various power centers bottoms up - such things aren't visible before actual power grab some way.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Sep 2014 07:25

UK was pakiland for a long time. So is US. Pakis may not be in power there but goras fear pakis/arabs like anything. Even the great satan khan Bush says Islam is a peaceful religion.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Sep 2014 08:54

Narayana RaoJi, don't get carried away by US PR on their "love" of Muslims. Heck, Muslims could not build a mosque in NYC near 9/11 site, and they were hounded like dogs for daring to do so. Their every shadow is being watched by ef-bee-eye and see-eye-yae outsources torture camps of "Al Queda" suspects to the likes of MushRat who in in turn gets to nurture pigLeTs to maim and kill Indians. A Muslim who raises his little finger will be sent to the "bay" area. No comparison between India's cowardly secularism and US's bogus, phony secularism.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Sep 2014 16:28

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... -indian-it

PM Modi's US Visit: India, US discuss WTO, visa, IPR related issues

During the the meeting between Deputy National Security Advisor for International Economic Affairs Caroline Atkinson and Sitharaman, India reiterated its position on the public stock holding for food security purposes at the World Trade organisation (WTO), sources said.

Besides, both the sides also deliberated on matters including intellectual property rights, Totalisation Agreement and visa restrictions, they added.

India had decided not to ratify WTO's Trade Facilitation Agreement (TFA), which is dear to the developed world, without any concrete movement in finding a permanent solution.

The US had expressed concerns over India's tough stand in the WTO.

India has asked WTO to amend the norms for calculating agriculture subsidies so that the country could continue to procure foodgrains from farmers at minimum support price and sell them to poor at cheaper rates without violating the norms.

The current WTO norms limit the value of food subsidies at 10 per cent of the total value of food grain production. However, the quantum of subsidy is computed after taking into consideration prices that prevailed two decades ago.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Sep 2014 20:20

I must confess I have not read this in its entirety, its about US joining China and Japan in "wooing India". but I would request anybody reading this to point out if there is any substance, or hot air. The very first picture showing a tall TFTA Kerry in front of a fawning SDRE put me off

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/chi ... ndia-11275

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Sep 2014 21:19

I have not read the above but from some of the stuff that I have read it seems that the Americans have been insisting on a Bilateral investment treaty before the big money start flowing. Infact it is one of their main complains.

What Modi is trying to do is to use his Japan visit to setup the Chinese and use the Chinese announcements to set up the Americans. IF enough dough starts pouring in from Japan and China the Americans will either bring in investment without the BIT or give the Japanese and the Chinese companies a walk over as far as the Indian market is concerned.

I think that is the game Modi seems to be playing or at least to get a balanced BIT.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 244552.cms
Bilateral treaty critical for deepening India-US economic ties

WASHINGTON: A top US diplomat has said a bilateral investment treaty, currently being negotiated, is critical for deepening Indo-US economic ties, and asserted that the US is committed to work with India to fully unlock the true potential of the businesses.

...
"Currently, the US and India are negotiating a bit which will be critical to deepening our economic relationship, improving investor confidence, and supporting economic growth in both countries," Biswal said.

"A bit will go a long way toward bringing our economies closer and reducing the friction that's only natural with two complex free-market systems such as ours. It will help us move past the choppiness that comes from not having an over-arching investment framework," she said.

"It will open up even more opportunities for American and Indian firms," said the top American diplomat.

...
"Even so, we still lack the investment diversity needed to fuel the growth of new and emerging sectors in our respective economies," Biswal said, adding that India needs a transparent, straightforward way of attracting foreign investment, offering private capital a way to share in India's opportunity.

"There must be a welcoming business environment that allows every dollar of investment to work efficiently," she said. Biswal said beyond BIT, India's investment and tax policies need to be designed to attract capital flows from across the world.

"Regulatory requirements need to be transparent and consistently enforced. Contracts must be upheld and honoured across jurisdictions, and perhaps most importantly, intellectual property rights — based on international norms — must be recognised," she noted.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... f-barriers
India, US need to push bilateral investment treaty: Nancy Powell

US is afraid of another Enron-Dhabol and India is concerned over the case like when a FII invested in Coal India and promptly dragged GOI for arbitration over Coal pricing.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Sep 2014 10:46

After UN, Prime Minister Narendra Modi to visit 9/11 Ground Zero

Quite a few surprise elements have added a twist — both symbolic and substantive — to PM Narendra Modi’s four-day visit to the United States where he will address the United Nations General Assembly on September 27.

Government officials have said that following his UNGA address, the PM will visit Ground Zero, the site of the twin towers of the World Trade Center in downtown New York which were brought down in terror attacks on September 11, 2001. He is also likely to tour the new 9/11 museum and memorial inaugurated by US President Barack Obama in May.

Following the tour, Modi has agreed to the inclusion of an unconventional item on his agenda. He will visit the much-publicised Global Citizens Festival in the Great Lawn of the Central Park, held every year to coincide with the UNGA. The day-long festival is visited by several celebrities and musicians and organisers have said over 40,000 free tickets will be distributed. As per the current schedule, Modi is slotted to speak for 15 minutes at the Central Park event, the theme of which is ending global poverty by 2030.

“This is basically organised by prominent NGOs,” said a top government official. “They invited the new Indian PM and he decided to visit them.’’

Official sources confirmed some key bilateral and diplomatic engagements. On September 27 itself, Modi will hold consultations with Sheikh Hasina, the PM of Bangladesh, as well as with Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa. Said a senior diplomat, “The meeting with the Sri Lankan President is still somewhat tentative but we expect it will happen.’’

Besides attending a reception at the Indian Consulate, Modi is scheduled to meet former US President Bill Clinton. On September 29, Modi will leave for Washington for his much-anticipated bilateral engagement with Obama

James B · Post by **James B** » 16 Sep 2014 19:37

The Idiocy of some americans (rightwing type) is just amazing. Now they have become anti-vaccines.

From The Daily Show

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/news-team/sa ... ral-idiocy

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Sep 2014 19:42

there are states in South India which took to every WHO health and vaccination scheme with great enthusiasm and spontaneity. Whether it be polio, HPT, MMR etc. If I am correct these schemes peaked in 70s and 80s. Today those states have lowest fertility rates in India. 80% (my estimate) of young women in those states can't conceive naturally without some kind of IFT depending on case to case. Very few conceive naturally.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 16 Sep 2014 19:47

habal wrote:there are states in South India which took to every WHO health and vaccination scheme with great enthusiasm and spontaneity. Whether it be polio, HPT, MMR etc. If I am correct these schemes peaked in 70s and 80s. Today those states have lowest fertility rates in India. 80% (my estimate) of young women in those states can't conceive naturally without some kind of IFT depending on case to case. Very few conceive naturally.

80%? really? even if its your ball park estimate, you are saying that in at least one of the four south indian states, 80% women have to go in for infertility treatment?

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Sep 2014 19:50

It's huge numbers, I can tell you that. I get daily reports of grapevine gossip from my better/worse half. Sometimes I think can nobody of this generation conceive without IFT. I tell her atleast tell me somebody who has naturally conceived, atleast say something positive. But hard luck.

saip · Post by **saip** » 16 Sep 2014 20:00

habal wrote:there are states in South India which took to every WHO health and vaccination scheme with great enthusiasm and spontaneity. Whether it be polio, HPT, MMR etc. If I am correct these schemes peaked in 70s and 80s. Today those states have lowest fertility rates in India. 80% (my estimate) of young women in those states can't conceive naturally without some kind of IFT depending on case to case. Very few conceive naturally.

Great! You should go to Pakistan. That is what they believe too. Polio vaccine is a conspiracy to make Muslims infertile.
Have you thought about that the lower fertility rate could be attributable to better education and completely voluntary?

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Sep 2014 20:02

saip wrote:Great! You should go to Pakistan. That is what they believe too. Polio vaccine is a conspiracy to make Muslims infertile.
Have you thought about that the lower fertility rate could be attributable to better education and completely voluntary?

I knew some worthy would bring up this comment. Boss, I am talking of people who want to conceive but can't. How does better quality of education and voluntary/involuntary matter here.

saip · Post by **saip** » 16 Sep 2014 20:06

But you said 80%. That is my problem. Unless you have figures to substantiate your claims do not make them. This is off topic for this thread. Let us take it somewhere else.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 16 Sep 2014 21:20

low fertility is related to many lifestyle factors, environmental stress, late marriages and late attempts, poor diets and sedentary work hours etc..and not to mention voluntary reduction

srin · Post by **srin** » 17 Sep 2014 00:27

habal wrote:there are states in South India which took to every WHO health and vaccination scheme with great enthusiasm and spontaneity. Whether it be polio, HPT, MMR etc. If I am correct these schemes peaked in 70s and 80s. Today those states have lowest fertility rates in India. 80% (my estimate) of young women in those states can't conceive naturally without some kind of IFT depending on case to case. Very few conceive naturally.

Don't want to derail this thread, but i'm going to challenge this assertion

I usually lurk on this thread, but will crawl out of workworks and call it BS until you can substantiate any bit of this.
a) "very few" is not a statistic. You should show statistically significant variation
b) And then show causality. Corelation is not causation or in other words, "post hoc ergo proctor hoc" (if you have watched West Wing) is a logical fallacy
c) And then medically prove it. If what you are saying is true, lack of data won't be a problem for medical determination.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Sep 2014 01:42

"Post dated cheque on a failing bank".Gandhiji said that of the British Raj,but the same could be said of the US economy.

From the Economic Collapse Blog, Michael Snyder reports:

-The U.S. national debt has increased by more than 7 trillion dollars since Barack Obama has been in the White House. By the time Obama’s second term is over, we will have accumulated about as much new debt under his leadership than we did under all of the other U.S. presidents in all of U.S. history combined.

-The U.S. national debt is now more than 5000 times larger than it was when the Federal Reserve was first established in 1913.

-If the U.S. national debt was reduced to a stack of one dollar bills it would circle the earth at the equator 45 times.

-Right now, the United States already has more government debt per capita than Greece, Portugal, Italy, Ireland or Spain.

-In August, the average rate of interest on the government’s marketable debt was 2.028 percent. In January 2000, the average rate of interest on the government’s marketable debt was 6.620 percent. If we got back to that level today, we would be paying well over a trillion dollars a year just in interest on the national debt.

-At this point the U.S. government has accumulated more than 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities that will need to be paid in future years. In other words, we have made more than 200 trillion dollars worth of promises that we do not have money for yet.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 17 Sep 2014 02:13

habal wrote:there are states in South India which took to every WHO health and vaccination scheme with great enthusiasm and spontaneity. Whether it be polio, HPT, MMR etc. If I am correct these schemes peaked in 70s and 80s. Today those states have lowest fertility rates in India. 80% (my estimate) of young women in those states can't conceive naturally without some kind of IFT depending on case to case. Very few conceive naturally.

The Parsis must have really over vaccinated in that case.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 17 Sep 2014 02:29

Ardeshir wrote:
habal wrote:there are states in South India which took to every WHO health and vaccination scheme with great enthusiasm and spontaneity. Whether it be polio, HPT, MMR etc. If I am correct these schemes peaked in 70s and 80s. Today those states have lowest fertility rates in India. 80% (my estimate) of young women in those states can't conceive naturally without some kind of IFT depending on case to case. Very few conceive naturally.
The Parsis must have really over vaccinated in that case.

This is what the Mullahs have seized on. Not that they read WHO reports but word of mouth.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Sep 2014 02:43

Have you thought about that the lower fertility rate could be attributable to better education and completely voluntary?

Brings to mind the story of the Pakistani Rear Admiral's daughter. The Admiral had cautioned her b4 she married this sailor, that sailors tended to have strange tendencies brought on by the long periods of not seeing any wimmens. But the daughter told him to STFP, she didn't need any advice, hain?

After a year or so of married bliss, one day she ventured to ask her hubby:

Have you ever thought of doing it 'the other way round'?

WHAT! And fill the whole *&^%* house with brats??

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Sep 2014 07:18

habal wrote:
saip wrote:Great! You should go to Pakistan. That is what they believe too. Polio vaccine is a conspiracy to make Muslims infertile.
Have you thought about that the lower fertility rate could be attributable to better education and completely voluntary?
I knew some worthy would bring up this comment. Boss, I am talking of people who want to conceive but can't. How does better quality of education and voluntary/involuntary matter here.

Habal,

This line of thought may have been well meant, but is clearly poorly thought out.

Special vaccines have to be deployed to Pakistan -- usage with lack of refrigeration, no expiry date, extra potency -- all neccessary for pakistan. They do have side-effects. The scientific community does not believe the lack of a few pakis is going to hurt the gene pool. Snd it only helps pakis themselves use the one avenue of enjoymemt malsi does not outlaw. Win-win for everyone.

Pakis being pakis are not vaccinating and will double in numbers by 2040 or sooner. So unless you have been saving money by vaccinating in lahore. nothing to worry about anywhere else. An indian pharmacist wont likely know how to read the label let alone give you the wrong medication.

Lastly, vaccines are not a US-India issue, lets take this to a more appropriate thread.