Bharat Rakshak

Shreeman wrote:

chetak wrote:
{quote="Shreeman"}If Putin tries to do a George Bush family/Euerak redux in seeriya then he will suffer the same fate. Seeriya is small enough to be cleansed and putin will get a lot of nobel prize votes if instead he chooses to pacify the place, unfamiliar airstrikes notwithstanding.

There are 6 weeks to create a solid beach head all long the coast, raise air power from 50ish to 100ish and raise sorties to closer to 1000 a day, bring in enough MLRS to deter turkey. The turkish borde wont be closed in time, but as long as russia is on the ground the others will take a longer route/time to spend the 500M just sanctioned.

Again number of boots wise SAA has the advantage. Turn off the TOW flow and the tide will turn. Only WW2 tactics will work in seeriya, flatten and rebuild.{/quote}

Russia is limited both in time and money. The falling oil prices seems to have been engineered primarily to screw them and many others incidentally along and by the way.

1000 sorties a day would cost a bomb. (sorry, bad pun!!) I don't think putin has that kind of moolah

Chetak,

the math would work that way for SDRE. Not for the TFTA. They already have the planes. They have their own oil, no two week reserve. And when everything was nationalized they filled up a lot of caves with bums, and not just in ukraine.

Roos would be reducing the risk of old munitions goung kaboom, and getting combat practice instead of training sorties. It woulnt cost them a dime (asaad will pay as well at the end), and they will get back space on both sides of turki. No longer hostage just to montreux and better able to prop up greece.

Erdogan is a fool. But I doubt this was his idea. It was the alphabet soup that did this. No skin off their noses. Roos loses another market. A well developed one. Turks come back home by 100,000s unemployed. For a year or two economy goes in the toilet.

Roos cant avoid but shutting of the turkish coffee going down the seeriyan toilet. At least for a while. And if they try not to play George Bush style freedom campaign they may actually get a good toehold for all the pain they will suffer economically. There is no point in storing bums in caves if you dont use them now. Its not parakram.

The new russia has vast domestic expenses and and aspirational society who will not keep quiet for long. Putin can't piss away all his oil revenue on syria because he also has to fight an election back home.

NEW DELHI: Dreaded terrorist group ISIS does not consider South Asian Muslims, including Indians, good enough to fight in conflict zone of Iraq and Syria and so treat them as inferior to Arab fighters often tricking them into suicide attacks.According to an intelligence report prepared by foreign agencies and shared with Indian agencies, fighters from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh as well as certain countries like Nigeria and Sudan are considered inferior to Arab fighters.There appears to be clear hierarchy wherein the Arab fighters are preferred as officer cadre and provided better arms and ammunition, equipment, accommodation and salaries."The fighters from South Asia are usually housed in groups in small barracks and are paid less than the Arab fighters and are provided inferior equipment," the input says.There are reports that the so-called inferior fighters are also, at times, tricked into suicide attacks. Usually they are given a vehicle loaded with explosives and asked to go near a targeted destination and call a certain number, who would purportedly come and meet them to explain the mission.However, as soon as the number is dialled, the car explodes due to a pre-set mechanism aimed at destroying a specific target.The intelligence report suggests that there is a disproportionately high level of casualty among the South Asian and African foreign terrorist fighters since they are forced to the frontlines of battle as foot soldiers.The Arab fighters with better battle experience are mostly positioned behind these fighters and hence their casualties are proportionally less in terms of their total numbers. This explains why so many Indians from a small Indian contingent have died, it says.
The intelligence report says there is information that foreign fighters of Chinese, Indian, Nigerian and Pakistani origin are housed together and are monitored closely by the ISIS Police.Incidentally, only Tunisian, Palestinian, Saudi Arabian, Iraqi and Syrian are allowed to be in the ISIS Police force, which is barred for fighters of all other nationalities.Hence, there is a clear trust deficit between the dominant Arab fighters from other nationalities, who are mostly attracted to ISIS through its sophisticated propaganda techniques on the Internet.There is also information, the intelligence input suggests, that the ISIS considers Islam, as it is practised in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh .., as apostate and a departure from the original teachings of Quran and Hadith, which makes them less motivated towards Salafist Jihad.Hence, there are authentic reports of brain washing of fresh recruits from South Asia and certain other countries by invoking the fear of 'Jinn', which are considered supernatural creatures in Islamic mythology, the intelligence input says.The fear of 'Jinn' is invoked to ensure that the recruits from these countries do not return to their countries of origin on the premise that the 'Jinn' will continue to haunt them for the rest of their lives if they do so.Further, passports of foreign terrorist fighters from South Asia and certain African countries are usually burnt upon their arrival in Iraq-Syria to prevent them going back to their countries.

(CNN)Pro-Kurdish lawyer Tahir Elci, president of the Diyarbakir Bar Association in southeastern Turkey and a leading human rights defender, was killed while making a press statement Saturday.

The statement in the Sur district of the predominantly Kurdish Diyarbakir province was intended to call attention to damage done to the 1,500-year-old Four Legged Minaret Mosque by recent clashes between Turkish security forces and Kurdistan Workers' Party militants.

Elci was a lead attorney in many cases dealing with Kurdish issues, including the deaths of 35 civilians in a 2011 airstrike in Uludere.

The semi-official Anadolu Agency reported that Elci was killed during clashes that broke out after "terrorists" from the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, fired shots near the minaret. The Diyarbakir Governorate also said in a statement that security forces were attacked. Two police officers were killed and one wounded, and the governorate declared a curfew from 1 p.m. onward.

The Sur district and many predominantly Kurdish provinces have seen renewed conflict between Turkish security forces and the PKK. The 30-year war between Turkey and the PKK, which is considered a terrorist group by the U.S., has claimed an estimated 40,000 lives. A two-year cease-fire ended in July.

In footage from the Dogan News Agency, gunshots are heard, and plainclothes police officers respond with gunfire. Elci and journalists stand behind police. Later, an armored vehicle arrives, and journalists try to follow it away. The gunshots intensify, and the journalists begin to run. Another shot zooms in on a body on the ground, and it becomes clear that it is Elci, lying face-down.

Anadolu reported that Interior Minister Efkan Ala appointed four investigators, saying, "this attack is against our nation's unity."

Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag said Elci's autopsy is ongoing, the agency said.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan condemned the attack. "This incident show that Turkeys fight against terror is right," he said, adding, "Our struggle will continue till the end. We will not stop. We will not be tired. We will continue to be decisive in our fight against terrorism."

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said the police officer was killed when gunmen opened fire from a car about 100 meters from where Elci was shot.

He pointed to two possible timelines: "This might be an assassination against Tahir Elci," or "the second possibility is after the terror incident which took place 100 meters away, police were trying to protect the crowd, and there were two fires coming from two different sides, and Tahir Elci may have been killed in the crossfire. If this was the case, the ballistic report will say this."

Either way, Davutoglu said, the truth will come to light.

The Diyarbakir Bar Association tweeted Saturday that "our president of the association, lawyer Tahir Elci was murdered by an assassination."

The HDP, or Peoples' Democratic Party, an opposition party with Kurdish roots, also said in a statement that Elci's death was an assassination and blamed the AKP, the ruling Justice and Development Party. "This planned assassination targeted law and justice through Tahir Elci. ... Tahir Elci was targeted by the AKP rule and its media and a lynching campaign was launched against him."

On October 19, an Istanbul court issued a warrant for Elci on charges of "propaganda for a terror organization" after the lawyer said on a CNN Turk program, "PKK is not a terrorist organization. ... Although some of its actions have the nature of terror, the PKK is an armed political movement."

He was released by the court on the condition that he not leave the country.

British Ambassador to Turkey Richard Moore tweeted, "Shocked and depressed by the murder of my friend Tahir Elci. A good and brave man cut down. A human rights defender over many decades."

The U.S. Embassy in Turkey tweeted, "We are shocked by the tragic death of Tahir Elci - a courageous defender of human rights."

The HDP called on "Turkey's democratic and peaceful powers, its citizens with conscience, professional associations and civil society organizations, political parties to raise their voices and show their democratic reactions."

Bhurishrava wrote:

The new russia has vast domestic expenses and and aspirational society who will not keep quiet for long. Putin can't piss away all his oil revenue on syria because he also has to fight an election back home.

Wrong on both counts
The `aspirational society` will keep quiet and Putin will still win `elections`. There isnt true democracy in Russia. So, dont expect Putin to lose out on stamina.
But then there isnt true democracy in Amreeka either. Otherwise they wouldnt be bombing country after country what with the Iraq fiasco.

One day after saying Turkey fired missiles as "an automatic reaction to a border breach" -- and not knowing the nationality of the plane in question -- Erdogan said Saturday, "We wouldn't have wished this to happen. But, unfortunately, it did."

The powerful Turkish leader didn't lash out at Russia but appeared intent on taking the high road by claiming that "Turkey has never been in favor of triggering tensions and clashes, and we never will be."

In fact, Erdogan appealed for dialogue {Other reports say he has been dialing the Kremlin, but Putin's dog answers and says to go stand in line at the Russian Embassy if Erdogan wants asylum}, saying the upcoming U.N. climate change conference in Paris, which he and Russian President Vladimir Putin are expected to attend, would be a good place to have such talks. (This week, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Putin knew that Erdogan had asked to meet with him in France but gave no word on whether the request would be accepted.)

"We tell Russia, 'Let's talk about this issue within its boundaries, and let's settle it,' " Erdogan said Saturday. "Let's not make others happy by escalating it to a level that would hurt all our relations.' "

Spinster wrote:Where is UN?

UlanBatori wrote:Nausea alert:

One day after saying Turkey fired missiles as "an automatic reaction to a border breach" -- and not knowing the nationality of the plane in question -- Erdogan said Saturday, "We wouldn't have wished this to happen. But, unfortunately, it did."

Ah , SO! He thought it was an American plane. TSJ, bring out the Patriots!

Gets better..

The powerful Turkish leader didn't lash out at Russia but appeared intent on taking the high road by claiming that "Turkey has never been in favor of triggering tensions and clashes, and we never will be."

In fact, Erdogan appealed for dialogue {Other reports say he has been dialing the Kremlin, but Putin's dog answers and says to go stand in line at the Russian Embassy if Erdogan wants asylum}, saying the upcoming U.N. climate change conference in Paris, which he and Russian President Vladimir Putin are expected to attend, would be a good place to have such talks. (This week, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Putin knew that Erdogan had asked to meet with him in France but gave no word on whether the request would be accepted.)

"We tell Russia, 'Let's talk about this issue within its boundaries, and let's settle it,' " Erdogan said Saturday. "Let's not make others happy by escalating it to a level that would hurt all our relations.' "

ddressing supporters in the western city of Balikesir, Erdogan said neither country should allow the incident to escalate and take a destructive form that would lead to "saddening consequences."
He renewed a call for a meeting with President Vladimir Putin in the sidelines of a climate conference in Paris next week, saying it would be an opportunity to overcome tensions.Putin denounced the Turkish action as a "treacherous stab in the back," and insisted that the plane was downed over Syrian territory in violation of international law. He has also refused to take telephone calls from Erdogan. Putin's foreign affairs adviser, Yuri Ushakov, said Friday that the Kremlin had received Erdogan's request for a meeting, but wouldn't say whether such a meeting is possible.Asked why Putin hasn't picked up the phone to respond to Erdogan's two phone calls, he said that "we have seen that the Turkish side hasn't been ready to offer an elementary apology over the plane incident."
After the incident, Russia deployed long-range S-400 air defense missile systems to a Russian air base in Syria just 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey to help protect Russian warplanes, and the Russian military warned it would shoot down any aerial target that would pose a potential threat to its planesRussia has since also restricted tourist travel, left Turkish trucks stranded at the border, confiscated large quantities of Turkish food imports and started preparing a raft of broader economic sanctions.
Meanwhile, in comments which underscore how angry the Kremlin still is over the incident, Dmitry Peskov, Vladimir Putin's spokesman, called the behavior of the Turkish air force "absolute madness" and said Ankara's subsequent handling of the crisis had reminded him of the "theatre of the absurd." "Nobody has the right to traitorously shoot down a Russian plane from behind," Peskov told Russia's "News on Saturday" TV program, calling Turkish evidence purporting to show the Russian SU-24 jet had violated Turkish air space "cartoons". Peskov said the crisis had prompted Putin, whose ministers are preparing retaliatory economic measures against Turkey, to "mobilize" in the way an army does in tense times. "The president is mobilized, fully mobilized, mobilized to the extent that circumstances demand," said Peskov. "The circumstances are unprecedented. The gauntlet thrown down to Russia is unprecedented. So naturally the reaction is in line with this threat." Peskov said Putin was aware of a Turkish request for him to meet President Tayyip Erdogan on the sidelines of the Paris climate change conference next week but gave no indication of whether such a meeting would take place. 
Erdogan on Saturday said the Paris summit could be a chance to repair Ankara's relations with Russia. Peskov denied Turkish press reports which said Moscow and Ankara had struck a deal for their warplanes to stop flying along the Syrian-Turkish border, saying military ties between the two countries had been severed and a hot line meant to avoid misunderstandings among their pilots dismantled. Peskov, according to the TASS news agency, also spoke of how Erdogan's son had a "certain interest" in the oil industry. Putin has said oil from Syrian territory controlled by Islamic State militants is finding its way to Turkey. Erdogan has spoken of slander and asked anyone making such accusations to back up their words with evidence. Peskov said he "noted" that Turkey's newly-appointed energy minister, Berat Albayrak, was Erdogan's son-in-law. Peskov said there could be up to 200,000 Turkish citizens on Russian soil. "What's important is that everyone who is able to use their influence to guarantee at least some predictability in the pattern of Turkey's behavior," said Peskov. "Russian planes should never be shot down." 

Shreeman wrote:If Putin tries to do a George Bush family/Euerak redux in seeriya then he will suffer the same fate. Seeriya is small enough to be cleansed and putin will get a lot of nobel prize votes if instead he chooses to pacify the place, unfamiliar airstrikes notwithstanding.

There are 6 weeks to create a solid beach head all long the coast, raise air power from 50ish to 100ish and raise sorties to closer to 1000 a day, bring in enough MLRS to deter turkey. The turkish borde wont be closed in time, but as long as russia is on the ground the others will take a longer route/time to spend the 500M just sanctioned.

Again number of boots wise SAA has the advantage. Turn off the TOW flow and the tide will turn. Only WW2 tactics will work in seeriya, flatten and rebuild.

In First Expression of Regret, Turkish ( Pakurkey)President Says Wishes Downing of Russian Warplane Hadn't Happened'We are truly saddened by this incident,' Erdogan says; Kremlin says Putin 'fully mobilised' to tackle threat from Turkey.
http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.688853

Philip wrote:Coming so soon after M.Hollande's visit to the SWhite House, where O'Bomber is adamant about allowing Assad to survive,this statement of surprising independence by the French augurs well for the future,IF the French can resist the US pressure not to cooperate with Russia. However,post paris 13/11,the French appear to have had enough of pussyfooting about ISIS in the region and Assad clearly is the lesser of the two evils,if he is to be considered evil at all.In fact the Turks should be considered in the same league as ISIS as they are their covert economic and mil partners,aiming to oust Assad and seize Syria for their own vested interests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/
France: we could work with Syrian regime troops in ground fight against Isil

Laurent Fabius, the foreign minister, said he could foresee Syrian troops loyal to Bashar al-Assad taking part in the fight to crush the Islamic State group, in a controversial statement welcomed by the regime in Damascus

Jhujar wrote:In First Expression of Regret, Turkish ( Pakurkey)President Says Wishes Downing of Russian Warplane Hadn't Happened'We are truly saddened by this incident,' Erdogan says; Kremlin says Putin 'fully mobilised' to tackle threat from Turkey.

Syrian fighters claim several villages near Aleppo
A coalition of Syrian rebel groups, including Nusra Front, make gains near strategic city of Aleppo. Syrian fighters have seized a town and several villages in Syria's northern Aleppo province from troops and allied Shia forces amid intense fighting.

A coalition of rebel groups, including the Nusra Front, announced on Saturday that they had taken back control of Tal Bajer in the southwestern countryside of Aleppo, after losing it to Syrian troops backed by Lebanese Hezbollah fighters and Iranian forces two weeks ago.

Nusra Front released drone footage that purports to show Iranian forces fleeing from rebels advancing on the town with tanks.

But as fighting continues near the borders with Turkey, fears of a regional conflict loom large.

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Yayladagi on Turkey's border with Syria, said Turkey and Russia are divided over Syria's civil war as Russians are staunch allies of President Bashar al-Assad, while Turkey insists the Syrian president must go.
"They believe the Russians use the fight against ISIL as a cover to bolster Assad's chances to stay in power," Ahelbarra said. "And that ISIL can only be defeated if Assad is forced out of power."
Opposition forces have inflicted painful losses on Syrian troops and their allies in the area, successfully repelling their advances despite Russian air strikes.

udaym wrote: This is what India should have done for last several decades to those supporting bakistan.

Spinster wrote: US will win hands down any war some times without firing even a shot.

UlanBatori wrote:I want control over the Bosporus Toll Booth.

The possibility that Turkey closes the stait to black sea for Russian vessels is seen by Kremlin as an apocalyptic scenario ..."

Jhujar wrote:ISIS does not consider Indians good fighter
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 894644.cms