Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 26 Jul 2011 10:32

SSridhar wrote:The air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles will be able to hit targets at a distance between 700 km and 1,000 km, thus putting nearly all major Indian cities within their range, the report claimed.The plan is in line with Pakistan's official policy of having what is rhetorically called "maintaining a minimum deterrence", especially against India

Chilaaks, this guy is tying himself in knots... he talks about xxx-to-air missile and about hitting cities. Unlesh Desh ka cities are flying saucers this is not possible. From where will these 1000KM ranged missiles be launched? what platform with launch this? Even if he meant Surface to Surface missiles "All Major cities" is an exaggeration even by Paki standards. Probably all major cities in Punjab can be targeted and not hit. The minute one Indian city is hit, Pakistan would be history!!!

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 26 Jul 2011 10:36

Singha wrote:they dont care for airbases. all paki n-weapons are countervalue intended - killing the maximum indians.

They know that they have one shot, and would look for maximum damage. This would become progressively difficult when Desh increases its missile defence. Akash, Spyder, Barak (QRSAM, MRSAM, LRSAM) etc would all need to get inducted ASAP. BMD should be in place in the next 4-5 years. This would make a strike from the pakis difficult and also we should make them aware that even if we strike down a Paki BM, we would treat it as a strike and respond with overwhelming force!!!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Jul 2011 15:02

The 24-missiles tamasha elicits response from IAF Chief

"As per our doctrine, response to a first strike will be massive," Naik threatened. The IAF chief's statement came following the news report that Pakistan planned to add 24 nuclear-capable, short-range missiles capable of hitting all major Indian cities to its arsenal this year.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 26 Jul 2011 15:17

I hope by massive he means severe.

Slight = rubble
Moderate = gravel
Severe = dust

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Jul 2011 15:28

merlin wrote:I hope by massive he means severe.

Slight = rubble
Moderate = gravel
Severe = dust

Does dust=stone age dust?

The americans promised them stone age dust, are we promising ordinary dust onlee?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 26 Jul 2011 15:29

SSridhar wrote:The 24-missiles tamasha elicits response from IAF Chief
"As per our doctrine, response to a first strike will be massive," Naik threatened. The IAF chief's statement came following the news report that Pakistan planned to add 24 nuclear-capable, short-range missiles capable of hitting all major Indian cities to its arsenal this year.

I love ACM Naik for his blunt talk... We will all miss him as chief after this month end... hope he continues to be active in some Think Tank... What do Ex Chiefs usually do? do they have any official role in IDSA type think tanks?
BTB, I thought Pakistan's crown Jewels were Surface to Surface missile, this article does not mention those? has their production/shipment been stopped ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Jul 2011 15:34

SSridhar wrote:The 24-missiles tamasha elicits response from IAF Chief
"As per our doctrine, response to a first strike will be massive," Naik threatened. The IAF chief's statement came following the news report that Pakistan planned to add 24 nuclear-capable, short-range missiles capable of hitting all major Indian cities to its arsenal this year.

This IAF Chief is like a rooster with its's tail up!

Wait for the response of our sickular intellectuals

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Jul 2011 15:53

chetak wrote:
SSridhar wrote:The 24-missiles tamasha elicits response from IAF Chief
quote]"As per our doctrine, response to a first strike will be massive," Naik threatened. The IAF chief's statement came following the news report that Pakistan planned to add 24 nuclear-capable, short-range missiles capable of hitting all major Indian cities to its arsenal this year. /quote]
This IAF Chief is like a rooster with its's tail up!

Wait for the response of our sickular intellectuals

You mean Intellectuals on Foreign payroll

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 26 Jul 2011 15:53

Missile threat from Pakistan and ACM Naik's response...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 370406.cms
It looks like Pakistan has many missiles which (in theory) can target most cities in India (except Trivandrum, Karnataka). The Paki DDM which reported the news originally mentioned Surface to Air Missile, but the threat from Surface to Surface missiles in real. See the image in the link below.
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/images/PakMissile.jpg
Kudos to ACM Naik for giving a fitting response ASAP, hopefully the Dhimmis in MEA don't hose it down to please the visting Pak Foreign Minister.

manum · Post by **manum** » 26 Jul 2011 16:23

Shri can you please not post in each and every thread...currently what you are doing is suffocating and irritating me at least...Its been quiet some time to be patient but it seems no advice works on you...It is not necessary to thank everyone after they reply...its not necessary to gather news for everyone's sake...

It is necessary that each thread takes its own course in longer period of multiple posts...than one guy doing repetitive posting, I would suggest you to get out and get some air...its been long you have been out of your room...please do that...

sorry, I've lost my patience with you...and don't ask where, what is wrong, problem is you are making each and every thread unilateral shallow by excessive posting...please go get a life, till then nation will be in safe hands...don't worry...

ps.I don't want to post it..but feel its necessary now

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 26 Jul 2011 16:58

Shrinivasan wrote:
Singha wrote:they dont care for airbases. all paki n-weapons are countervalue intended - killing the maximum indians.
They know that they have one shot, and would look for maximum damage. This would become progressively difficult when Desh increases its missile defence. Akash, Spyder, Barak (QRSAM, MRSAM, LRSAM) etc would all need to get inducted ASAP. BMD should be in place in the next 4-5 years. This would make a strike from the pakis difficult and also we should make them aware that even if we strike down a Paki BM, we would treat it as a strike and respond with overwhelming force!!!

If Prahar is a derivative of AAD and 6 can be transported on a road mobile launcher then this presents a a rather interesting challenge for Paki doom mongers. If the Indo-Pak situation heats up then India would be very capable of deploying BMD in big numbers around various cities as well as other strategic points. I wonder what the Indian response would be if a TSP missile carrying a nuclear warhead is shot down, will that bring about a nuclear response from India ?

Not that any of it might matter as TSP is all about military posturing , I highly doubt they will risk the existence of an entire nation by launching even a single nuclear weapon towards India with no guarantee of hit themselves. Even the 65 war and Kargil war was based on the premise that India won't respond and whenever a Paki convinced himself that SDRE's will back out they will try foolish stuff, therefore it's vital that we keep emphasizing about the massive second strike like the good ACM just did and of couse weapon power speaks for itself.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 Jul 2011 17:50

SSridhar wrote:The 24-missiles tamasha elicits response from IAF Chief
"As per our doctrine, response to a first strike will be massive," Naik threatened. The IAF chief's statement came following the news report that Pakistan planned to add 24 nuclear-capable, short-range missiles capable of hitting all major Indian cities to its arsenal this year.

24 missiles striking all key cities as first strike. ACM needs to contemplate. It's not a dhoti shivir. No matter hos massive Indian counter response will be, its a catastrophe. (Added later: He was mentioning Nasr.)

The XXX-Air Missile : Airburst? (added later: Do they think Chinese troops will move in after the airburst.)

Just my observations. Not expecting a reply.

sombhat · Post by **sombhat** » 26 Jul 2011 18:15

manum wrote:Shri can you please not post in each and every thread...currently what you are doing is suffocating and irritating me at least...

This is getting ridiculous:
1. The guy has not broken any posting guidelines, so stop haggling him just because you cannot keep up with his post count.
2. You are not an admin and it's not your business anyway.
I am reporting your post.

manum · Post by **manum** » 26 Jul 2011 18:50

well I think you are taking it in ridiculous ways...I am not competing for post count on BR, it doesn't matters to me... but it gets problematic when a person keeps on posting every alternative posts, finally making everything redundant and tasteless...

you can write multiple times and have multiple news gathers and thoughts and replies but does it mean that you keep on posting every alternate posts and not letting anything take a direction...I've a qualitative issue and for that I can say straight forward to anyone without minding admins...till I see its appropriate and not out of line...

I don't have problem as a BR member who posts, but have a problem as a reader who reads everything on it, and it matters...
and I know it might sound a bit out of my way but I had a problem, I pointed it out to him...after resisting for long...

Now go on report it...However admin says, I'll agree...one can have one on one discussion with a person than always pointing out to admins...
I'll rest now...

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Jul 2011 23:07

Aditya_V wrote:
chetak wrote: This IAF Chief is like a rooster with its's tail up!

Wait for the response of our sickular intellectuals
You mean Intellectuals on Foreign payroll

Its interesting that you said this..earlier I used to feel that much of what we said on BRF about the pseudo-secular, ultra moderate and liberal intellectuals being on foreign payrolls or being funded by agencies inimical to Indian interests was just conservatives being conservative- but that Pakistani Fai case in the US basically highlighted how a foreign spy agency could bankroll one individual who would cultivate influence using that money, which would be used to influence opinions..So, this is a very very real possibility.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 27 Jul 2011 07:50

Pakistan’s Defence Budget: Cloaked in Secrecy

Despite vociferous demands from the public and the opposition that the defence budget be discussed in detail in parliament, no legislator had the courage to ask for more details. Interestingly, a couple of parliamentarians who had earlier raised this issue preferred to ignore it altogether. Instead of taking the security agencies to task for their failure on May 2, most parliamentarians cleverly redirected the wrath of the House towards the US by mainly discussing the issue of Pakistan’s sovereignty and how it was violated by the Americans.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jul 2011 17:43

manum wrote:well I think you are taking it in ridiculous ways...I am not competing for post count on BR, it doesn't matters to me... but it gets problematic when a person keeps on posting every alternative posts, finally making everything redundant and tasteless...

Manum - you have my sympathy and support. I thought the post count was excessive in relation to the value of the content, but the content was not trivial or uninformed enough for complaint - only irritation, which is what you expressed. Sorry - it was sometimes brazenly uninformed - like the photo of Arrow 2 in 2 threads posted as Indian ABM.

manum · Post by **manum** » 27 Jul 2011 20:10

Hopefully its not sarcasm shivji...

I was already embarrassed for strong words I used to fellow mate, that is why I kept opologising to him in between...
I didnt mean to cross a line...but that time it seemed necessary...

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 28 Jul 2011 00:00

Shrinivasan wrote:What do Ex Chiefs usually do?

Launch Poorly Guided Missiles (PGM) on to unsuspecting targets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l37cPWoREyc

nits · Post by **nits** » 28 Jul 2011 16:30

Cinton may recommend Obama to veto Pak aid related bill

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has warned the lawmakers that she would recommend President Barack Obama to veto a bill, which imposes aid restrictions on several countries including Pakistan.

Clinton said this in a letter to leadership of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, which last week passed the Foreign Authorization Bill, which among other things requires a certification from the Secretary of State that Pakistan is not supporting terrorist activities.

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 29 Jul 2011 12:19

I’ve pasted the link and text from an article which appeared in the Pakistani newspaper “Dawn” on the Indo-Pak cyber war. Amongst other things, the article also cheekily claims that (a) the Pakis have “won” the cyber war by having hacked a far larger number of Indian websites and (b) the first Pakistani cyber attack took place post-Pokhran in 1998, whilst the Indians took 2 years to respond and made the first cyber attack only in the year 2000.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/07/28/the-futi ... -wars.html

The hostility between India and Pakistan is nothing new. However, with the passage of time, the rivalry has found a new frontier, the cyber world. Unfortunately, the medium that could have been used to bridge the divide and hose down the hostility between the two nations is being used to spew hatred and fight the same war on the cyber front.

According to information available, Pakistani hackers were the first to launch an offensive against an Indian website. The attack ensued in 1998 in response to the official announcement made by India regarding the nuclear tests that were conducted in Pokhran. In what followed, the Bhabha Atomic Research centre website was hacked by a group called Milworm who had defaced the web front and posted anti-India messages on the website.

The controversial Kargil War of 1999 also saw similar efforts on the online front from Pakistan’s end. This time, Pakistani hackers had taken over www.armyinkashmir.com and used the opportunity to post photos showing the atrocities allegedly committed by Indian troops during the Kargil War.

The Indian Response

It was not until the year 2000 that the Indians started fighting back on this new found frontier. The first alleged attack came from a group calling themselves “Patriotic Indians” who claimed to have hacked into Pakistani government websites. Other prominent Indian hacker groups include the H20, also known as the Hindustan Hackers Organisation, and the Indian Cyber Army. It is also believed that there are a number of solo hackers working towards the same cause from both sides of the border.

The available stats clearly indicate that Pakistan has thus far been winning the war on the cyber front as the ratio of websites hacked between the two sides is anything but close to equal. In addition to launching its own online offensive, India has also alleged that the Pakistani hackers’ network has the patronage of the security establishment, in particular the ISI.

Pakistan has a number of independent groups that have dedicated themselves to the continuous and ongoing online battle. The leading amongst them are the Pakistan Cyber Army, G Force and the Pakistan Hackers Club.

According to several computer security websites, the number of Indian websites hacked by Pakistani groups increased from 4 in 1999 to 72 in 2000. In comparison about 7 Pakistani websites were hacked in 1999 by Indian groups and this number rose to 18 in 2000. Pakistani hackers responded to this by hacking over 150 Indian websites in 2001. From then onwards a large number of key websites of both countries have been hacked.

Post Mumbai Attacks

In 2010, the Indian Cyber Army hacked dozens of Pakistani websites including those of the security agencies, Islamic organisations, Oil and Gas Regulatory Authority website and the Ministries of Education and Finance.

In retaliation, the Pakistan Cyber Army compromised about 270 Indian websites which included the high profile website of the CBI as well as the Indian state-run Oil and Natural Gas Corporation website.

The trademark style of hackers on both sides is to deface the landing page and post threatening messages. Whereas initially the messages were focused on Kashmir or general anti-state slogans, following the Mumbai massacre of 2008, the recurring theme seems to be referencing the event and threatening an explosive aftermath.

The ICA and other groups from the Indian side openly allege that the Mumbai attacks were planned and executed by Pakistan whereas Pakistani hackers attempt to play down the accusation by posting messages that are offensive, laughable and most of the times grammatically incorrect! Also a key feature of the Pak-India cyber war is the element of “Top That” which is suggested with every cyber attack.

There is no denying the fact that both sides have some highly capable hackers in their ranks. There is also no doubt about the fact that the Pak-India cyber war has been escalating with time. The Indians have started taking cyber security seriously and are keen on defending their cyber sovereignty from any threats from across the border. At the moment however, India is trying to catch up with the ‘dedicated’ professional hackers of Pakistan that have thus far dealt a heavier cyber blow to India than they have to Pakistan.

While cyber security is an important aspect that should be given its due diligence, setting up Cyber Armies for the sole purposes of waging a cyber war is a waste of time, effort and talent. These dedicated groups would be much better off serving their country by fortifying their own cyber sovereignty and taking on various web related projects that could be beneficial for the country in particular and humanity in general.

Take for example the concept of Eballoting, for holding elections online or taking on an initiative like Khan Academy which has done wonders in the field of education. There is absolutely no barrier to entry for useful initiatives on the web, in fact there is ready funding available for many such initiatives such as the P@sha Fund for social innovation in Pakistan and surely there must be similar opportunities across the border as well. In essence, the Pak-India Cyber War is futile and needs to be abandoned in totality. Instead, the talented lot should be competing to take on revolutionary and beneficial online initiatives if they want to prove anything worthwhile.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Jul 2011 08:20

X Posted.

The shared Mohammadden religion is not enough to provide immunity to the Balochi / Baluchi minority from the predatory actions of the Punjabi dominated security forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

'Enforced disappearances' in Pakistan slammed

The cited Human Rights Watch report is here:

“We Can Torture, Kill,or Keep You for Years” : Enforced Disappearances by Pakistan Security Forces in Balochistan

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 31 Jul 2011 04:21

US thinktank raises concerns over Pak nuke threat to India

The report says the Pakistani government may consider fielding lower-yield nuclear weapons to increase the credibility of its nuclear deterrent vs. Indian conventional military operations.

"In addition to making qualitative and quantitative improvements to its nuclear arsenal, Pakistan could increase the number of circumstances under which it would be willing to use its nuclear weapons," says the report titled, Pakistan's Nuclear Weapons: Proliferation and Security Issues.

As it is, Pakistan's nuclear posture is deliberately unclear with ill-defined red lines.

The intent is to keep India - and the world - guessing about under what circumstances the nuclear button will be pressed - the imminent collapse of the Pakistani state, a massive attack on its cities or even reverses near the border.
:
While the report says Pakistan's nuclear warheads use an implosion design with a solid core of approximately 15-20 kg of highly enriched uranium, it adds that Pakistan is also actively producing plutonium for weapons. "It appears that Islamabad is constructing two additional heavy water reactors, which will expand considerably Pakistan's plutonium production capacity, at the same site (Khushab)," it says.

Indian officials believe that the speed with which Pakistan has carried out work on the fourth reactor, a plutonium-producing facility, at Khushab could only have been made possible through a steady supply of uranium from China. There was no sign of this reactor in Khushab until 2009.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 Jul 2011 09:56

China to give squadron of J10-B fighters to Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Taking bilateral defence relations to a new high,China will givePakistan a squadron of the advanced J-10B fighter aircraft, a media report said.

The offer was made by senior Chinese military leaders to visiting Pakistan Army's Chief of General Staff, Lt. Gen.Waheed Arshad, the Urdu daily Jang reported on Saturday, quoting defence sources.

The J-10B fighters are equipped with the latest weapons and Pakistan will be the first country, after China, to have these advanced aircraft, it said.

During his visit, Lt.Gen.Arshad was assured that the defence relationship between the two countries will reach new heights and China's efforts for the safety and security of Pakistan will be never-ending.

During his visit, Waheed called on General Ma Xiaotian, deputy chief of general staff of People's Liberation Army and other officials including Lt. General Ren Haiquan, the vice president of the National Defence University.

pkudva · Post by **pkudva** » 31 Jul 2011 10:50

In the present day scenario building and storing number os issies is of no use....as it will bull doze the economy. The management os missiles should be done cleverly based on the requirement.

India's I believe is greatly managed based purely on its requirement, even in case of full flegged war against war it is possible only 2-3 Nuclear War Head Agni Missile will be used in response to Pak's 1 Nuc Missile.

And it will be more sort of a convential war rather than nuclear, as nuclear war will lead to a total diaster which is not in the interest of the country itself and international community.

Cheers.

jai · Post by **jai** » 31 Jul 2011 12:10

Shrinivasan wrote:
SSridhar wrote:
I love ACM Naik for his blunt talk... We will all miss him as chief after this month end... hope he continues to be active in some Think Tank... What do Ex Chiefs usually do? do they have any official role in IDSA type think tanks?

BTB, I thought Pakistan's crown Jewels were Surface to Surface missile, this article does not mention those? has their production/shipment been stopped ?

I think he's been one of the finest chiefs the iaf has got in a long long time now. He would be heading The iaf association for one after retirement - as per the tradition. I think leaders like him should become the national security advisor..would be a great service to the nation.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2011 13:46

Austin wrote:China to give squadron of J10-B fighters to Pakistan

What bets its a bluff? Some please catch me out and curse they arrive.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 31 Jul 2011 15:00

[url=http://www.if-there-is-a-place-in-this-duniya-you-need-totake-a-dump-in-it-is-nuclear-power-Pakistan]India to give 2 squadrons of LCA-Mk2 to Vietnam[/url]

Vietnam will be the first country to receive this high tech, nuclear capable fighter jet with top notch weaponry, AESA radars and Jamming devices

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 31 Jul 2011 15:16

Mahendra wrote:[url=http://www.if-there-is-a-place-in-this-duniya-you-need-totake-a-dump-in-it-is-nuclear-power-Pakistan]India to give 2 squadrons of LCA-Mk2 to Vietnam[/url]

Vietnam will be the first country to receive this high tech, nuclear capable fighter jet with top notch weaponry, AESA radars and Jamming devices

What kind of filth is this? This is not the right thread for such things. I just wasted a few minutes of my valuable time on such rubbish!

READERS INTERESTED IN SERIOUS NEWS ON LCA DEVELOPMENT, PLEASE DONT CLICK THE LINK ABOVE, ITS A PRANK!

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 31 Jul 2011 15:27

Sire, your time is indeed valuable, how can I reimburse you for your valuable time? I am indeed humbled by you commenting on my post. I am indebted to you forever Sire! after all taking valuable time off from your job of Saving the World from an Asteroid which is estimated to be on a collision course with mother earth means a lot to me...really.

if you don't like a post, REPORT it and I will take it off, thoda free advise, you can type in small letters instead of typing in CAPS which will take more of your valuable time and bring the Asteroid closer to this duniya

biswas · Post by **biswas** » 31 Jul 2011 16:02

I thought it was funny :/

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 04 Aug 2011 04:59

Someone sent me this link. LMAO !! The self created, self propagated myth in Pakistan about their pilots being the best and their F-16 pilots being the best F-16 pilots in the world gets a VERY RUDE awakening by guys who are in the know..

Steve_Davies Posted: Sep 12, 2006 - 09:34 PM

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Joined: Mar 30, 2005 - 02:06 PM
Posts: 103

Status: Offline

Sorry, sallondon, but that would really surprise me. Why? Because according to contacts at Moody AFB (where Pakistani pilots attend IFF prior to going to the F-16 B-course), the majority of your guys who go there are passed simply because their instructors are given no other choice. To quote directly, most of the Pakistani students that graduate from IFF would have failed the course had they been American studs. I think that speaks volumes.

Meathook Posted: Sep 13, 2006 - 01:35 AM

Elite 3K

Joined: May 14, 2004 - 12:37 AM
Posts: 3316

Status: Offline blain2 please buddy....don't make me laugh, I have not had my coffee yet. If you want to stick up for these guys you go right ahead but don't try convincing me after what I have seen and done in over thirty six years of aviation deploying to over sixty countries while involved in numerous training scenarios with foreign pilots.

You want to cut these guys some real slack, go ahead, I on the other hand will be honest and from I have seen first hand...your slightly over the top in your assessment of both Europeans and Pakistan Air Forces...but it is your story, please...tell it your way.

This weapons system is like nothing they have used before, I hope you know that, their limited experience in it far out weights your comments and so call assessment of their capabilities...that is my two cents.

What is your experience with these programs if any....?

Elaborate will ya......

Meathook Posted: Sep 13, 2006 - 03:18 AM

Elite 3K

Joined: May 14, 2004 - 12:37 AM
Posts: 3316

Status: Offline I am not against boasting, been guilty of that myself at times but that was a rather large boast, really off the wall considering the audience he was addressing but having said that, I fully understand national pride, we all need it and thrive off of it from time to time.

Spend time at Luke (training base of many foreign pilots); at that time I was a flight chief for older F-16's training squadron that provided the vehicles for their training. These folks and many other nations tried like hell to learn to fly the aircraft. Of course this is no easy tasking, takes time, dedication and study, then you do it over and over again until you get it right.

The write ups (gigs) produced by many student pilots were to say...bogus to say the least (many are expected but these guys went way overboard not understanding the aircraft). But the constant ground aborting of aircraft (where no real problem existed) coupled with many near misses, over G'ed aircraft, number of pilots that outright failed or dropped out of the program was staggering in 1985 and 1986.

Granted it was not just this country that had its problems but this country led the pack in a negative way. They appeared to lack discipline, drive and real motivation picking up the system technology in the early years of my involvement. Then we accomplished numerous deployments to their location (in country) teaching their mechanics the skills required to maintain the aircraft, poor mechanics, poor training motivation and lack of understanding all led to many failed efforts.

Recently working the foreign military sales side of the house, F-16 aircraft regeneration efforts and long term system sustainment, the same problems (lack of understanding) seem to surface again and again. Many other issues I will not discuss openly but hopefully, you get my drift here. The limited combat skills they displayed in past aerial engagements and weapon systems tactics in older version aircraft have not been satisfactory enough to gain my approval of their flying capabilities, that is why I provided my hearse comments to the person that made the out of line boast.

Side note, I have over two hundred hours in F-16Bs and D’s, have been a corporate pilot for ten years now and served twenty six years in the USAF working and flying in numerous fighter aircraft (F4 Tow Target Operator in 1975 and 1976 at Edwards AFB). So I think I can speak from experience in both training and the operational side of the house.

These folks have a very long way to go to get anywhere close to the boast that was made. As you mentioned, technology is a major factor in both maintaining and operating this weapons system, they need to burn the midnight oil quite a bit more for my salute to be given in earnest.

there's plenty more as well on the F-16.net thread..very entertaining to say the very least.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 04 Aug 2011 13:59

shiv wrote:
Austin wrote:China to give squadron of J10-B fighters to Pakistan

What bets its a bluff? Some please catch me out and curse they arrive.

It may be "stage play" Shiv. Train the paquis on the J10B. In case of hostilities with India paint them and hand them over to the paquis?

or is my imgination running riot?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Aug 2011 01:12

http://russianplanes.net/ID48824

Pakistani Mi-14.

This type was the Soviet equivalent of the Sea King

navneeet · Post by **navneeet** » 06 Aug 2011 12:04

Terror threat: Pak moves warships away from Karachi

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/terro ... hi/827858/

Claiming that security threats are at an “all time high”, the Pakistani navy has moved away its main battleships out of the Mehran naval base in Karachi to the Makran coast in Baluchistan, a media report said Friday

Senior retired navy and air force officials welcomed the move and described the navy chief’s decision as “pragmatic” and “positive”. Retired Vice Admiral Tanvir Ahmed said one of the golden rules in warfare, especially when facing a threat from an unknown enemy, is to disperse your assets in as many bases as possible. “Never put all your eggs in one basket,” he said. Ahmed said it would be wrong to say the navy felt threatened by terrorists. “It’s not a question of fear, but a matter of tactic,” he said.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 06 Aug 2011 12:30

Kartik wrote: there's plenty more as well on the F-16.net thread..very entertaining to say the very least.

Not surprising that those batting for the Paki pilots choose to quote Chuck Yaeger about how PAF "kicked our ass". I wonder if any one them even looked at the casualties and figures for the 1965 and 1971 wars?

schowdhuri · Post by **schowdhuri** » 06 Aug 2011 12:39

Kashi wrote:
Kartik wrote: there's plenty more as well on the F-16.net thread..very entertaining to say the very least.
Not surprising that those batting for the Paki pilots choose to quote Chuck Yaeger about how PAF "kicked our ass". I wonder if any one them even looked at the casualties and figures for the 1965 and 1971 wars?

Speaking of Chuck Yaeger & his biased feelings, you may want to see this article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_3959887/

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 06 Aug 2011 12:52

Kartik , any idea how the paf compares with other airforces(including IAF and USAF) in terms of training.For eg.no. of hours etc.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 06 Aug 2011 13:16

schowdhuri wrote:
Kashi wrote: Not surprising that those batting for the Paki pilots choose to quote Chuck Yaeger about how PAF "kicked our ass". I wonder if any one them even looked at the casualties and figures for the 1965 and 1971 wars?
Speaking of Chuck Yaeger & his biased feelings, you may want to see this article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_3959887/

Oh I have read that article all right. I find it more amusing than irritating how an airforce that was forced on the backfoot from Day 2 and was nowhere to be seen when IAF straffed Karachi and the Western Front- not to mention complete GUBO on the Eastern front- has the audacity to claim that they "kicked our ass".

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Aug 2011 14:05

darshan, we have done this kind of analysis on BR off and on, using career flying hours of PAF officers and similar bits and pieces of data. the estimates vary from 100hrs/yr to 200hrs/hr. my personal estimate is it is somewhere above 150hrs. you might want to have a look at the article on attrition in IAF and PAF hosted on BR mainsite.