The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 17 Aug 2011 01:38

whoaa the opinion on BBC is shared by quite a few IAS who appeared on debate

Nobody denies that Mr Hazare's movement against corruption has touched a chord among many Indians, who are fed up with corruption and the political class. Nobody denies that corruption is India's biggest threat to growth and all-round prosperity and development. At the same time, many believe that framing the corruption debate only in the terms of the state versus Mr Hazare-led 'civil society' threatens to trivialise the war on corruption and augurs ill for India.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14542053

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 17 Aug 2011 01:45

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 624691.cms

Let's see what tomorrow brings...

Hundreds of supporters gathered outside Tihar jail after Hazare and his associates were taken inside the prison.

Shortly after Hazare's arrest, his campaigner Prashant Bhushan announced a series of agitational programmes, including a march from India Gate to Parliament on Wednesday evening and protest by supporters in Delhi streets.

He also called upon government employees to go on mass leave from Wednesday to show solidarity with Hazare.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Aug 2011 01:48

Sanku wrote:Christian leaders denounce anti-corruption agitation
http://www.cathnewsindia.com/2011/08/16 ... agitation/

John Dayal, a lay leader, said that “this dictatorial attitude shows that Hazare has no respect for democratic norms.”

The concept of clean is not there in the evangelicals. They look at everything as conquest and non beleivers.

The country for them is a kingdom of god and corruption is not part of the priority

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 17 Aug 2011 02:07

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?731422

India erupts in protest after Anna Hazare arrest... accounts from across the country.

"Approximately, 3,000-4,000 people have been detained and released across Mumbai," City Commissioner of Police Arup Patnaik said, adding they were picked up on the charges of unlawful assembly after they held demonstrations.

However, the Congress unit in Rajasthan came down heavily on the social activist claiming that his intentions were not "good" and alleging that the BJP was "using" Hazare for its own political interest.

"Anna Hazare's intentions are not good and his arrest was made in the national capital to keep law and order situation under control," PCC President Chandrabhan said at a political meeting in Malpura Assembly constituency here.

In Jodhpur the High court lawyers and advocates body today decided to boycott the work in the courts tomorrow justifying Hazare's fight and terming the move of the government as amounting to hurting the constitutional rights to peaceful demonstration and democratic values.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Aug 2011 02:38

Nandu wrote:
SaiK wrote:It is time that a billion people are engaged for anti-corruption and freedom from this still lingering british raj in form of babudom. I invoke the Gods to give enough strength to the people to fight corruption, and support anna hazare. I specially invoke the Gods to jail all corrupted officials, and begin a new chapter in our freedom struggle against corruption.
Thought there was a separate Hazare thread?

Anyways, he doesn't represent a billion people. If he did, he could capture power democratically via elections instead of trying to impose his will on the legislature via fasts.

In that sense he is not much different from the J&k separatist who claims to represent kashmiriyat, but will not stand for an election. Both undermine the Indian state's constitutional underpinnings. I am not saying they are morally the same, of course.

1. So, what is that in the constitution, he undermined?

2. Are you saying, peaceful protest are not part of our democracy?

3. IMO, AH is fighting for constitutional corrections - he did say that. no?

4. Justify congress walas putting him in jail along with Raja et al criminals? Is that not a crime itself committed by GoI?

5. Justify your claim that he is equivalent to kashmiri separatist? what did he blow up? or asked to separate a nation or split the constitution/state itself?

Your arguments sounds like this:

Close the ice-cream shop because, it is creating traffic accidents, when you relate AH to a terrorist. On the same note, how do you want to correlate babus housed and aiding corruptions to a separatist or terrorist? same?

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 17 Aug 2011 02:41

Acharya wrote:
Sanku wrote:Christian leaders denounce anti-corruption agitation
http://www.cathnewsindia.com/2011/08/16 ... agitation/

John Dayal, a lay leader, said that “this dictatorial attitude shows that Hazare has no respect for democratic norms.”
The concept of clean is not there in the evangelicals. They look at everything as conquest and non beleivers.

The country for them is a kingdom of god and corruption is not part of the priority

Mr. Dayal might be worried about the alternative if UPA falls, a secular govt. which treats all religions equally.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 17 Aug 2011 03:37

In a Presidential system, Anna would probably win today. If the electoral system is reformed (which is the next item on his agenda after the Lokpal bill), he (or others like him) could win even in our Parliamentary system. Only the worst kind of politicians use the crutches of "let them win elections if they want change" argument to deny any participation for the people in the legislative process.

Nobody, not Anna Hazare for sure, is saying that the law needs to be passed by anybody other than Parliament. However, most representative democracies provide the scope for people to participate in the law making process. At the very least, to observe it. Here, we have a Government which is unwilling to allow any glimpse into an opaque law making process. A system where a Government can impose a whip on its members of Parliament to vote according to the party line or else. This is not democracy and the framers of our Constitution did not intend this.

It is also wrongly being suggested that Anna Hazare and the IAC folks want their bill to be passed. Let us rewind to April - the Government agreed to a joint drafting committee, with five members of each side. Let's set aside the rationale for that for a moment and focus on what was agreed on at that point. At the end of the drafting committee's deliberations, there were two widely different positions. This was a joint committee, with equal members and even joint chairmanship. Yet, only the Government version of the bill was presented to the Cabinet, which in turn was introduced in Parliament. There was a serious lack of due process and serious breach of faith in this process. This is what has precipitated the current crisis. Not unreasonable demands on the side of Anna. All his team is asking for is a serious bill to be introduced, not necessarily his bill, but not also a Lokpal Bill in name, which has strong deterrence measures against those who complain against the corrupt rather than deterrence against corruption itself.

The Congress party and the Government have misread the pulse of the people. And they will pay the consequences for it - now and in the next elections.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Aug 2011 05:22

Times Now reported about Anna's movement goes global. Indian origin people from America (45 cities) and UK (London) are voicing their concerns. Somebody mentioned Diggie; oh man the Internet Hindus are everywhere these days. [sarcasm]

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Aug 2011 06:34

Times of India is reporting that questions have been raised as to why the law is applied in a generous manner when Congress Party Crown Prince Rahul Gandhi is in breach and in a more stringent manner when lesser mortals in the Congress Party lexicon such as Anna Hazare are in breach.

Rahul Gandhi’s treatment of the violation of Section 144 when he visited the villages of Bhatta-Parsaul in Uttar Pradesh earlier this year was undoubtedly a lot less harsher than the treatment meted out to Anna Hazare:

A different law applies to Rahul Gandhi?

Being a Crown Prince in a Socialist Republic is not devoid of perks it seems

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Aug 2011 06:39

The problem is the ruling babooze think they are above the law.. especially, when they get a mandate. Now, we have to correct the constitution for la impeachment of PM, and all its members as well.

Checks and balances are must. Thank you AH! I hail him for the invocation of the rightful right that every citizen must have. Free from this evil.. India will prosper better than any nation on the planet.

All those Internet Hindus and Swamys must rise now!

asdharia · Post by **asdharia** » 17 Aug 2011 06:43

if the government thought, the fast was against the law, it was the Delhi Police that arrested Anna, but then how could he be released just because RG thought this movement could get more support due to the arrest. It that by the law? What happened to Sec 171 and 151, then????????

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Aug 2011 06:46

Satyagraha is the greatest gift given to poor deshi by mahatma.. If that can't be legalized in India, then where else can it be? [Italy?Colombia?] Preventing satyagraha is a crime in itself. Put those men behind bars who arrested AH.

If GoI fears, then it should answer to the core problems, rather. This gov should go!

asdharia · Post by **asdharia** » 17 Aug 2011 06:52

So true SaiK, and that too by Congress..the party established by Gandhiji. Also Congress "usually" prides itself about its affiliation with Gandhiji..and they are objecting to this...it is really ironic and tragic.....I think its simply because they changed their name to I-Congress right...(Italian-Congress)

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 17 Aug 2011 07:06

BJP rejects Anna's demand on Jan Lokpal Bill
Neena Vyas

Citizens have a right to protest but last word on any Bill is that of Parliament

The Bharatiya Janata Party is fully supporting the Anna Hazare team on its right to protest peacefully, but has categorically rejected its main demand that the team's Jan Lokpal Bill be introduced in Parliament rather than the government's Lokpal Bill.

Simultaneously, the BJP launched its own agitations country-wide to make the most of the interest generated in Mr. Hazare's campaign.

Mr. Jaitley said “dissent was the essence of democracy” and the BJP was supporting Mr. Hazare on this limited point. But, “the last word on any Bill is that of Parliament [not civil society]. However, citizens have a right to protest” and express their different views.

A similar stand was taken by BJP president Nitin Gadkari who, at a separate news conference, categorically stated that he did not agree with Team Anna on its demand that their Jan Lokpal Bill should have been presented to Parliament by the government rather than the Cabinet-approved Bill.

“It is the constitutional right of the ruling party to place its Bill before Parliament and then it is the right of all political parties to give their views and for Parliament to pass the bill,” Mr. Gadkari said.

Earlier, BJP leaders Sushma Swaraj and Mr. Jaitley did not reply when asked why the BJP's Kalyan Singh government in Uttar Pradesh refused permission to the former Prime Minister, V.P. Singh, to go to Ayodhya to protest against the BJP's ‘mandir wahin banayenge' (we will build the ram temple at the disputed site) plank. On October 29, 1991, V.P. Singh was arrested at Ram Snehi Ghat and prevented from reaching Ayodhya to protest against acquisition of land near the disputed site by the Kalyan Singh government and the flattening of some temples by Vishwa Hindu Parishad bulldozers.

Mr. Gadkari announced a series of agitations and protest marches that would be organised by his party at various places “beginning today [Tuesday].” The party slogan adopted is: “Loktantra bachao, bhrashtachar hatao” (Save democracy, end corruption). He compared the situation to the Emergency of 1975 when “democratic rights were trampled upon” by the Indira Gandhi government.

Party sources disclosed that the BJP would now make an attempt to ride the wave of public anger against corruption and prevent Mr. Hazare and his team from “hijacking” the plank from the main Opposition party.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Aug 2011 07:11

asdharia wrote:if the government thought, the fast was against the law, it was the Delhi Police that arrested Anna, but then how could he be released just because RG thought this movement could get more support due to the arrest. It that by the law? What happened to Sec 171 and 151, then????????

Such questions are asked by elites, lawyers, activists, jingos and BRFites. Aaam admi does not have that fursat. And when gullible people are emotionally charged, one has to just say "You know what happened in August? Anna was arrested; and it was our kind hearted Rahul who got him released. Rahul respects Anna and his movement. Rahul is against corruption. He flew from Ameerica to do this, while his dear mother was battling for life. Their family is totally dedicated to the country, they put the country first before their personal self. See, when Sonia had the chance, she did not become the PM. She gave way to MMS. Rajiv laid his life for the country. Indira laid her life for the country. JLN, MLN etc gave money, fame for the country. So will Rahul. He has visited so many villages in the country and seen first hand how corruption affects the aam admi. He could have sat in the comfortable mansions, but he gave all that up to understand people"

Such narration are unbeatable. Section 144, 151 or 171 ityadi don't matter. Those numbers don't convey the phul ishtory.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Aug 2011 07:57

RamaY wrote: If UPA II agrees to include PM in LP bill, it can be an acceptable compromise for AH. How that (LP process) gets used is of no concern to him.

Including PM is not a core issue for Anna & Co. They care much more about "common man's corruption" in schools, roads, NREGA and primary health centers. BJP wallahs are making some noises about including PM (to show some token opposition) but are maintaining silence about the important issues.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Aug 2011 08:01

At Rajouri Garden, police station came under siege

Dwaipayan Ghosh, TNN | Aug 16, 2011, 11.27PM IST
NEW DELHI: When the police whisked away Anna Hazare from Mayur Vihar, skirting mammoth crowds at the east Delhi colony to faraway Rajouri Garden in west Delhi, they did not anticipate that word will spread so soon. Initially, the cops were tightlipped, claiming Anna had been taken to an undisclosed location. But within a span of few hours, the crowds were swelling outside the office of the additional commissioner of police (West) at Rajouri Garden. The cops were taken by surprise.

As word spread that Anna had been shifted from Gazetted Officer's Mess in Civil Lines, his supporters waited for over two hours to know his exact location. Around 2.30pm, it became clear he was at Rajouri Garden office of the Additional CP.

Crime branch officers, preparing to take Anna to Tihar, were in for a shock when over 2,500 people, including women and children, laid siege to the office and blocked the three gates. The crowd was undeterred by the huge police presence or by the fact that the entire area had been sealed. "They kept coming in droves, many even took the Metro,'' said a police officer.

Around 3.30 pm, all hell broke loose. People raised slogans as soon as the vehicle carrying Anna came out. Sensing trouble, police first used decoy vehicles to puzzle protesters, but their efforts failed. While two vehicles left the additional CP's office, crime branch sleuths tried to take Anna out through the police housing complex next to it.

On not finding Anna in either of the two cars, the protesters shifted focus to the stretch in front of the malls. As two Innovas tried to make their way through a sea of protesters, a few women flung themselves in front of the vehicles. People blocked the road with anything they could lay their hands on - broken chairs, tree trunks and even private cars. The protest was unprecedented and spontaneous.

Soon a scuffle ensued between protesters and police. "We had asked our men not to use batons. We managed the situation well,'' said a police officer. Cops temporarily sealed the entry to the malls in the area while protesters raised slogans. They sat atop police vehicles, but cops soon dispersed them. Only after the road was completely cordoned off that the police managed to move towards Tihar.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... ?prtpage=1

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 17 Aug 2011 08:08

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 629719.cms

BJP MP Varun Gandhi, who had last week offered his residence to Anna Hazare for holding his fast, on Tuesday said he plans to introduce Hazare's version of the Lokpal Bill as a private member's bill in Parliament. "I will do that this week," the MP from Pilibhit said.

In an attempt at identifying with the youth of the country supporting Hazare's movement against corruption, the young Gandhi said in a statement, "Like crores of Indians, I am shocked and ashamed by the arrest of Anna Hazare. On the morning after Independence Day, we have woken up to what kind of freedom we, the people of this country actually have."

On whether he had his party's support on the issue, Gandhi said, "What is of greater interest to me is whether the nation is benefiting."

On how far he would go to support Hazare and his team, Varun said, "I will do what I can. I feel that when somebody is putting himself on the line for the future of the country and for the future of everyone, it is ...very heartening."

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 17 Aug 2011 08:13

BJP rejects Anna's demand on Jan Lokpal Bill
Neena Vyas

The Hindu article, seems more like a propaganda. What has been said is not there in the article.
Mr. Jaitley said “dissent was the essence of democracy” and the BJP was supporting Mr. Hazare on this limited point. But, “the last word on any Bill is that of Parliament [not civil society]. However, citizens have a right to protest” and express their different views.

Note the addition of not civil society. What Jaitley said just after that was, the right to pass any bill rests with the parliament as Anna himself has said. But he also added that the civil society has all the rights to present their views and their opinion. This was not seen in the article.
It was written so as to show BJP == Anti-Anna.

What BJP says is this. The right to introduce, debate and pass bills rests with the parliament of India and civil society must not in any way, consider themselves to be the parliament.
But BJP also supports all kinds of debate, opposition, support to any bill and even the civil society can frame it (congress is against this), since they have the right to do so. But debating, making amendments, passing it rests with the parliament and its the right of the parliament of India.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Aug 2011 08:28

Rapist goon yellow daily is having a hard time. Its yellow puppets that call themselves journalists have sold their souls to the dynasty in the hope that they can still be useful to let the Stalinist rapist goons rule without responsibility and implement Beijings agenda. They are now managing the media show for the dynasty and see that their show is getting ugly. Their efforts at managing the media show of the sewer dynasty of south turned sour as well....

So when all else fails dip further into the yellow tank..try to create rift between BJP and Anna, BJP and its own allies, BJP and everyone else, and so on...a popular yellow technique is to quote unconfirmed sources..

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Aug 2011 08:31

ashashi wrote:
Acharya wrote: The concept of clean is not there in the evangelicals. They look at everything as conquest and non beleivers.

The country for them is a kingdom of god and corruption is not part of the priority
Mr. Dayal might be worried about the alternative if UPA falls, a secular govt. which treats all religions equally.

Yes, both right and left.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 17 Aug 2011 09:02

uddu wrote: Note the addition of not civil society. What Jaitley said just after that was, the right to pass any bill rests with the parliament as Anna himself has said. But he also added that the civil society has all the rights to present their views and their opinion. This was not seen in the article.
It was written so as to show BJP == Anti-Anna.

Given the state of affairs of Parliament, I would take this as an open solicitation for bribe. I mean how dare Anna, a private citizen, dream of having his voice heard in Parliament without dangling sacks of Rs. 500 notes in front of MPs. Anna should learn from past history of Parliament particularly the recent nuclear bill where sacks of Rs 500 notes were found to be particularly useful.

In any case this vindicates all those who have been shouting for complete civil unrest and revolution for last many months on this forum. There is still hope for India...

To be frank this is not really total civil unrest (peaceful) that I had imagined, but its close. Now whether we get a total civil unrest in the months to come will depend upon whether this government still believes in drafting bills in return for sacks of money or in return of peoples voice.

In my view "Right to protest" is much much much more important issue than Jan LokPal bill. Each city in the country should have a large permanently assigned central location where people can protest without permission. If governance in this country is to be reformed, more such issues should be brought up to challenge the government and make them fail.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Aug 2011 09:15

Tickers on Times Now:

Massive support outside Tihar

Jail officials and inmates at Tihar join Anna's fast

In Delhi, District Court shuts, protests at Tis Haziri

Lawyers to March from Supreme Court to India Gate

Auto Union resolves to go on strike

In Mumbai, protests at Azad Maidan & Andheri

Thousands turn up in Bangalore

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Aug 2011 09:17

Good. Keep it up AH. Bring the govt down on it's knees.

Pray god that you will get another 100 years of life.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 17 Aug 2011 09:27

chackojoseph wrote:
ashashi wrote:
Mr. Dayal might be worried about the alternative if UPA falls, a secular govt. which treats all religions equally.
Yes, both right and left.

you mean treating equally both right wing and left wing govts or individual people belonging to those "ideas"?

more importantly, what if the supposed "equality" doesn't exist? what if there is no "equality" in the first place, to be treated "equally"?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Aug 2011 09:35

Anna arrest NEWS have been picked by Global newsmakers.

India arrests activist, sparking mass protests
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/india- ... 2011-08-16

MUMBAI (MarketWatch) -- Indian police on Tuesday arrested anti-corruption activist Anna Hazare in New Delhi in a move that sparked anger and protests nationwide and further undermined confidence in the embattled Congress-led ruling coalition of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. A number of Hazare's aides and thousands of his supporters who protested his arrest were also arrested in Delhi, Mumbai and in other cities of India, according to news reports. Hazare, a 74-year-old activist inspired by Mohandas Ghandi, was about to embark on a hunger strike before he was taken into custody. Hazare and members of the so-called Lokpal Committee say the Indian government has rendered toothless an anti-corruption bill originally presented by civil society and due to be voted on in India's Parliament in the coming weeks. Following the massive protests, Hazare and his aides were due to be released this evening by the police in New Delhi, according to news reports.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... ld+News%29
India's arrest of anti-corruption activist causes firestorm
Lawmakers walk out of Parliament and demonstrations erupt around India after prominent activist Anna Hazare is arrested as he was about to begin a hunger strike to protest government corruption

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Aug 2011 10:09

Wondering why Con-gress is not exploiting 'Mother India' ( as Mark Tully sarcastically puts it..beautiful article) illness? Why not blame the whole thing on Sangh parivar trying to take advantage of MI's sickness? After all Neena Vyas can say in Chindu that 'inside sources' from BJP tell her that the parivar has decided to use this to full effect and that RSS is giving full backing to Anna..SV can follow up with some hard hitting editorial and with help from CNN-IBN and NDTV it should be a done deal.

Where is Digvijay in all this action? Is he being asked to shut up lie in one corner waiting for bread to be thrown, like they eventually did with Arjun Singh, the other secular warrior?

Me thinks they are saving up that card for near term use...perhaps another GE?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Aug 2011 10:15

devesh wrote:
you mean treating equally both right wing and left wing govts or individual people belonging to those "ideas"?

more importantly, what if the supposed "equality" doesn't exist? what if there is no "equality" in the first place, to be treated "equally"?

Ideologies, this is nothing personal (although ideology is personal). IMO, Even Left and Right are worried about Christian ideologies. This is not one way street. All the three feel victimised.

Also, you must understand, there is differences within (all three). Therefore it is not zero sum game. There is a lot of dynamics.

Otherday, I found myself in the middle of it. The circumstances don't matter, but, I will tell you the gist. Withing our community (like all communities), there is a divide. So, this helps as checks and balance that we don't become extreme right or left. We do have extreme left and right within us. so we say that we are not among "those."

Left
As for the equality. Pre - 1995, at national level, there was nothing but congress to align with. Things were calm (mostly) except Kerala where communist wanted to take over the christians schools etc. It was congress which checked Communist. BJP, is (even now) not a force there, although emerging. Thats for the fear of communists. The sons and daughter of communists study there. So ideology rather then people problem.

In the East, there is something termed as Christian Uprising (Manipur etc). Something which is disconnected with Christians in other parts of the country. We have to really wait and see if govt apathy has to do with the restive NE. Other wise, there was meddling by Chinese, Pakistanis etc. It's very complex there. However, due to proximity, with Communist WB, there is some concern there.

Christians are unwilling to truck with these folks.

Right
The RSS and Christians have been active in Kerala. There have been friction and it continues to be. However, this has not been a manor source of anti right feelings.

The anti-right comes from mostly Orissa and Jharkhand (may be Bihar, UP too).

I am not saying if its justified or not.

However, there is a difference now. Like everyone, wer are evolving too. Now there are alternatives. Congress is at the center (TINA). In cities, Shiv Sena, MNS, BJP (Except RSS and Bajarang Dal etc) and other's are also coming up the radar. We are saying, look, who is doing the best job here? Even MNS, which we criticised, has 3 VP's from Christians. Though there is no radical change, we are looking for a change. In non major cities, the trend seems to be catching up. This may increase if there are no adverse impact. It may percolate througout India. I know that even BJP is actively reaching out.

So, there is no such thing as equality or parity. We were in a shell. So are others. Every one is trying to test waters. let us see, what next 10 years holds for us.

Even in this case, there is a lot of question on the Anna's stand on Lokpal Bill. But, no one is questioning the right to do so. Condemnation is limited to if the protests are right or not. John Dayal, like Delhi Police has acted on Congress's mechanisations. Are majority of the christians are with him? Go out on the streets and you will know.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 17 Aug 2011 10:23

Suppiah wrote:.... Is he being asked to shut up lie in one corner waiting for bread to be thrown, like they eventually did with Arjun Singh, the other secular warrior?

Singh Sacrifice ritual is very common in one tribal culture. There is a big list of lion sacrifice:

Madhav Sinh
Natwar Singh
Arun Singh
Arjun Singh
DV Singh and Finally -
MM Singh

There may be more, but these names came extempore who were sacrificed whenever the tribal leader/traditions were threatened.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 17 Aug 2011 10:33

LOL, Ramdev getting ready to deliver the second punch:

http://www.inewsone.com/2011/08/17/ramd ... dent/69380

Ramdev will meet the president at 11.45 a.m., said a statement from the guru. He will then go to Tihar Jail to meet Hazare, it added.

Inder Sharma · Post by **Inder Sharma** » 17 Aug 2011 10:36

A couple of observations from the local chaiwalla onlee.

Chota Pandus and chota babus, although supposed to get hurt the most by janlokpal, are infact heavily pro janlok pal. They say that most of the corruption they indulge-in is primarily to meet the daily ‘business targets’ set by the uppar-wallahs.

As per the same chaiwalla , the arrogant tyranny and the sheer distaste for public opinion by a certain person is indicative that ‘they’ have a ‘ram-band’ upaye for sticking to power, come hell highwater or re-elections.

As per him, a certain septuagenarian roshgulla eater is under tight lens by the saint. ‘They’ fear a VP Singh moment from the dada-didi.

Lot of globally invested mehnat-ki-kamai has been lost in the 2007-2008 meltdown. And therefore, we saw a re-doubling of the mehnat to regain the earlier levels.

Didi is under lotta pressure to ‘rethink’ the bond. (Some astute letter writing by bongla brethren may help her make up her mind, so please be at it).

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 17 Aug 2011 11:41

The Cong plan to neutralise Anna is still on course

http://www.firstpost.com/blogs/politics ... 61705.html

The angst against corruption could, the Congress-led government calculates, wither away just as it did in 2008 after the Mumbai terror attacks. The initial days saw a huge surge of public protest in the form of candle-holding people around the Gateway of India. But it didn’t last. Such protests, as we have already seen, tend to get snuffed out. The middle class does not even go out to vote against a government that they think is insufferable.

You have to give it to these Congress guys. Their confidence stems from the ease with which middle class enthusiasm usually dies out. On-street demonstrations require an altogether different attitude, a kind of sturdiness which even the Left finds difficult to marshal these days. Beyond the reflexive re-transmission of lofty text messages, the middle class does not have the stamina for action.

Of course, if this time it’s different with the middle class, the government could be in for a surprise. In this case, a new India will be emerging. And that would be interesting.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 17 Aug 2011 11:53

Constitutionalized Corruption - Kashmirobserver.net

Posting in full and worth reading in full. It seems BRFism is spreading to all corners of nation.

Asif Rizvi
Having, for decades, bemoaned institutionalized corruption in their politics and government, people in India can now legitimately lament constitutionalized corruption – thanks to smooth-talking Congress luminaries who have begun to invoke constitutional democracy and parliamentary institutions (concepts their party has already distorted beyond recognition) on the contents of the Lokpal Bill.

Upgrading India’s discredit rating from ‘institutional’ to ‘constitutional’ could be the Congress’s gift to the nation on the 64th anniversary of its independence after milking it for half a century, first by turning socialism into a vast cottage industry of graft and patronage, and later by using liberalization to tap the limitless possibilities of global capital. With this, its core competence to pull the wool over the nation’s eyes has now assumed a lethal dimension, as the coarse accents of the typical Congress politician of yore are being replaced by polished products from top universities at home and abroad, not to speak of highly successful lawyers, for a sophisticated spin to its unmitigated loot. That is why a battery of fast-talking spokesmen has been deployed to intimidate the masses with arguments about the sanctity and the supremacy of the parliament, an institution the party has systematically and single-handedly demeaned by criminalizing politics on a massive scale to stay in power. Ruling India for most of its post-independence history, the Congress has never had qualms about stuffing parliament with politicians charged with criminal offences ranging from abduction to rape and murder, but has suddenly turned self-righteous about parliamentary authority and sanctity when ordinary citizens demand credible corrective and preventive measures for the sleaze permeating even their country’s highest offices. It is not for nothing that the Lokpal issue was kept in abeyance for over four decades.

The “so-called” (their words) civil society which Messrs Sibal, Tewari and company revile with such contempt and scorn would have had no occasion to agitate had the parliament not been so brazenly unwilling, for so many decades, to address and arrest the rot of corruption, now openly acknowledged to have spread throughout the bloodstream of India’s governing machinery and, as a consequence, in the rest of its society. Every time a scam surfaces to stir debate on government and graft, the country is treated to a flurry of statements about strongly executing anti-corruption laws, only to be followed by silence, until, one fine morning, the very office of the prime minister is seen under a cloud. None of these defenders of parliamentary supremacy bothers to explain how things could have gone so far with a supposedly vigilant parliament watching over the government’s functioning. When, according to the former Karnataka Lokayukta, everybody has his hands in the till, how can ordinary citizens be expected to trust parliamentarians to uphold the duties of the parliament? National security is a favourite argument these days against bringing the office of the prime minister within the Lokpal ambit. The past months have shown how cabinet ministers can be suborned by corporate houses, how chief ministers can be hand-in-glove with mining mafias, and how avowedly patriotic political parties can back ‘leaders’ with deeply sullied records. There must be some perverse notion of national security where subversion at the highest levels of governance and authority is not considered a threat.

When India made its ‘historic’ transition to economic liberalization, vocal and eloquent advocates had hammered an anxious nation into submission, promising that the “trickle-down effect” of the process would deliver its benefits to the country’s teeming under-privileged. If, two decades down the line, the Congress feels no shame in eating its words, and covers up its massive swindle by a new mantra of “reforms with a human face,” turning the aam aadmi into a new mascot for a killing at elections, why should it be so queasy about testing its trickle-down theory on the phenomenon of corruption? That, at least, could be a more fruitful endeavor –for the masses if not for the Congress party – than granting constitutional sanction to corruption by posing parliament as an excuse to reject suggestions for top-down accountability.

---Author is Associate Editor of the Kashmir Observer

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 17 Aug 2011 11:57

Congress is a party full of arrogant like Chidu, Kapil Sibbal, Manish T etc. They have presented Tihar on platter to AH which he used to his full advantage. What was the need of sending him to Tihar from admin point of view, he could have been settled in any guest house.

Why congress is so flat footed on AH's version of bill-if they accept his version as well for discussion and debate in LS followed by voting I am sure even BJP can't vote in favour after all which party will want a strong lokpal in its state>?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Aug 2011 12:13

The UPA and Uncle Scam are now giving us the impression that India is mainly run by two corporate entities who matter most.the likes of "D" Company and "G" Company!

Uncle Scam has now with this last fiasco passed his "sell-by" date.It's past time for a new product to revive the UPA's future if it wants to last out its term.Surprisingly,even the Hindu paper gave it this grim warning in its editorial today.The gerontocracy of the UPA who weild the most power and their appendages in the Congress,however seem to be quite oblivious of this factor,that the UPA-the Congress in particular have lost all credibility when it comes to cobating the tsunami of corruption that like a marauding cancer has enmeshed the govt. during the two terms of Uncle Scam.

The great hope of the Congress is the crown prince,who from his current actions seem to be more akin to those of a "clown prince",rather than the heir apparent.The Congress has nothing to offer the country other than Rahul G and if that worthy truly desires to el\\lead his party and the country one day,then he has to take matters into hands and by the scruff of their necks evict the corrupt within his regime from the reins of govt. and do a surgeon's job on the ruling regime.His grandmother,Mrs. G had that rare quality of a strong leader,that of being a good butcher when it was neccessary.Uncle Scam is now so saturated with the stench and slime of corruption,that he has been transformed from his heavily touted PR of the past as "Mr.Clean" to from his latest action that of a "Mr. Bean",being the godfather of corruption today,sheilding all manner of scamsters like Raja,Kalmadi,Kani,Sheila Bullsh*t and co.,to name just a few.

The superbly put editorial in the Hindu sums up the state of affairs in the UPA/Congress and the nation's mood.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editori ... 362951.ece

Corrupt, repressive and stupid

A corrupt government devoid of moral authority is ill equipped to deal rationally with legitimate public anger. By ordering the illegitimate detention of Anna Hazare before he began his fast in support of stronger anti-corruption provisions in the Lokpal Bill and the arrest of a large number of peaceful protesters in the national capital, the United Progressive Alliance government revealed its ugly, repressive face. No representative government in a democracy can deny citizens their fundamental right to dissent and peaceful protest. Insisting on unreasonable, inequitable, and suspiciously contrived conditions that everyone knows the protesters cannot accept is tantamount to denial of the democratic right. Instead of honestly dealing with the issues raised by successive corruption scandals, the UPA government chose to cover up. When that became unsustainable, it resorted to slurs and dirty tricks, and incrementally raised the level of repression to smother voices demanding accountability and corrective institutional measures. It is no wonder that from time to time such a government gets into panic mode, miscalculates, and commits acts that everyone outside the regime recognises as politically stupid.

Despite several opportunities to reach a consensus with Team Anna and other sections of civil society for the framing of an effective Lokpal Bill, the Manmohan Singh government attempted to push through a farce of a Bill. That it misread the national public mood was obvious. Anna Hazare might have given the cause a face, but the anti-corruption movement that is now in a rapid phase of expansion across India does not depend on one man or his team. The real force that is shaking the UPA government — which is widely perceived as the most corrupt in the history of independent India — is made up of hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens who are fed up with a system they believe is opaque, corrupt, and driven by greed. In the words of A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, former President of India who has scrupulously kept himself above partisan politics, the recent events and findings have highlighted “the single biggest hindrance to India's growth — that is the corruption and degrading moral turpitude which is engulfing the nation like cancer.” What after all has made Team Anna the force it has become? It is the feeling among ordinary people across the land — a feeling strengthened by intense media coverage — that here is a rare opportunity to put in place a potent mechanism to end high-level corruption. If the UPA does not recognise the public anger against corruption, respect the ideals and values of democracy, and take steps to create a Lokpal that inspires confidence, there will be a political price to pay — perhaps well before the next general election.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Aug 2011 12:37

the key thing is - INC came to power both terms using the strength of allies - DMK in TN, a clean sweep of AP by YSR (who was INC anyway), the haramkhor commies.

now relations with DMK are down - with friends and family of the big guy himself as a official 'guests' in tihar, and JJ is on a mission to clean and uproot the octopus - her future depends on it.

YSR is gone and his son has split, taking away a section of INC base. ofcourse the TDP is pretty weak too.

commies have been wiped out and unlikely to be able to crawl back anytime soon.

the key states for INC are likely to be Maharashtra, kerala (big recent gains at expense of commies) and west bengal (Didi - will she stick around or bolt from the camp ?) .. INC will get trounced in UP as usual - yuvaraj keeping up his 100% record of adject failure wherever he campaigns.

if INC is to be kicked out, the opposition has to deftly start cementing and sewing up alliances and weaning away important state level leaders who do not want mud hurled on them in the nuremberg style anti-people crime n corruption tribunals that a successor regime will need to setup to cool public anger.

none of the big fish should be deemed off limits. every mattress and rock must be turned over to see what comes up.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 17 Aug 2011 15:08

delete

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 17 Aug 2011 15:20

While congress has been weakened in the movement, BJP doesn't seem to have gained, people who have gained are NGOs + media, who are becoming powerful enough to shake the govt. This may not be a very happy situation.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 17 Aug 2011 15:43

The media and congress spinmasters are waiting for some tidbit, a soundbite or a single quote from BJP's side. They will immediately spin it to mean BJP=anti anna and = pro corruption and deftly deflect all anger towards BJP or all political parties. I hope there is no one in BJP with the foot in mouth disease this time around.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 17 Aug 2011 16:00

Its essentially a checkmate situation for the Con-party. Just like the innumerable instances before of propping up one to put a check on a potential challenger (think B'wale against Akalis, KCR against TDP etc) they probably thought they can get away with propping up AH against BR. And just like in the previous instances this has come back to bite them where it hurts. Only this time their prop is fighting for a genuine cause and has a massive sympathy going for him. Though BR may appear as a spent force he too is backing AH to the hilt. The con-gang is waiting for something to give and be sure they will jump at it when it happens and survive. They are all in politics for making money and if that itself is threatened you can be sure they will play at their best to survive.
Expect fireworks.