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you need to define the mission first. Normally, even if it is deep strike, mother crafts will stay in a safe zone (be it inside or outside boundaries). also, think about MKI's combat mission range of about 2k miles... mothers need not be behind hungry children always.. they will stay home, and kids once done their play, will return home for refills.. and go back to play! again what is safe, is defined by the mission alone onlee... and it need not be a static location.
The Bears/Mays have been pictured carrying sea eagle withut IN formally announcing anything. It will be same for Brahmos. Thought I hope IN replaces the bears with TU-22M3's after 2020-25.
Ok instead of Backfires, during war with cheen how about an MTA takes off from Dum Dum Airport, flies really really low and from 150 kilometers from cheeni border takes coordinates from AWACS and lets of 6 Brahmos and 6 Nirbhays in terrain hugging mode? MTA turns back to Calcutta for a reload.
kit wrote:I have a feeling IN will not advertise its brahmos carrying Bears.There are not many navies around comfortable with that idea.
Apart from the fact that is some what of a over kill what is pointing of spending $$$ trying to fit a weapon system that IN would not use for any other aircrafts'?
Also we are not fighting the USN and regardless it will be suicide run since Bears can do very little when they are intercepted, IMO Mig-29k could handle any PLAN intrusion unlike Tu-142 which would need air support since they have no chance against Su-30MKK without air support. In such a case ideal scenario Squadron of Mig-29k split in two with half acting as interceptor and the other half flying low while getting targeting information from other aircraft could counter any threat more effectively .
Manish_Sharma wrote:Ok instead of Backfires, during war with cheen how about an MTA takes off from Dum Dum Airport, flies really really low and from 150 kilometers from cheeni border takes coordinates from AWACS and lets of 6 Brahmos and 6 Nirbhays in terrain hugging mode? MTA turns back to Calcutta for a reload.
Would that be effective?
With all probability, they will be intercepted by terrain hugging Flankers of PLAAF/PLAN over Bangladesh/Burma.
Why not go for 200+ seeker equipped conventional warhead Shaurya missile? 6500 crores is lot of money, it is better we order indigenous products. Jingo wet dreams aside, Brahmos is not really suitable for air carriage.
china is smart enough to keep there high value equipments out side the 290 km limit also subsonic shaurya could be easily picked by radars & engaged by point defense or other medium range SAM
suppose you have to eliminate s300 stationed in Tibet region which is 500-600 kms from border a single su30mki will carry on the task & will fly 200 km inwards Tibet region to fire at the target airforce knows the importance of this air-launched missile that's why this much money & don't get distracted by 200 nos it could be more that will be produced locally here in India
To give a rough analogy, the US used Tomahawks against much weaker opponents before sending their aircrafts. When we have Brahmos (290 km), Shaurya (700+ km), and soon Nirbhay (1000 km), it is not a good idea to send our pilots into harms way.
The SEAD could be tasked to missiles clearing the path for manned aircrafts. Financially, the missile route would be costlier but a human life is worth a lot more. This would also ensure greater success compared to more vulnerable manned aircrafts.
The only thing we will require is more missile factories. We already have 2 Brahmos factories. A third is coming up at Nagpur.
how US operates & how IAF operates is totally different USAF is send only after cleanup of all possible threats that is how they operated in Afghanistan till now & in Libya . In iraq & other i have no idea.
But IAF have a different approch similar to RuAF where a standalone fighter can work on its own . If we have a 10k+ inventory of cruise missile's then we might change it but for at-least 5-6 years no changes till shaurya & nirbhay become operational & get mass produced
though i get your idea of reducing the risk of pilots life but it is part of war.
nakul, you may use nirbhay for missions very similar to tomahawks. With 290km ranged air launched brahmos, what is your mission? actually, all these sead/weed stuff applies currently (practical) only against pakis. Against chippanda, an air-launched brahmos might be put to use only when some good sanitation levels have been achieved, with a deterministic logic of mission success, it shall be engaged. against chippanda, we have really nothing to overwhelm them. I would think, ton of shauryas, and ballistics have to be employed first.. and the reason, we went A5 as strategic deterrence, and since then chippanda-desh behavior has changed.. and a real politics even to the levels of CAG issuing notice to DRDO ways of functioning.. (you all know how permeable our political setup is/enemy within).
we all should be thankful to A5 and dr. saraswat for single handed did move India into P6 club.
290 km Brahmos is useful to sanitise the air space to operate CAS aircrafts. Moreover, if Cheeni will (I think they will) have prior intel about the location of Brahmos launchers, we will have to rely on air launched Brahmos. With Agni 5, we ensure that the war is limited to the borders. China is supposed to have thousands of IRBMs aimed at New Delhi. Agni will simply deter them from using it.
We can't use the American strategy of complete air control since it would be impractical. However, partial air dominance is certainly possible with Brahmos taking care of the SAMs while the FGFA/ Su 30 will clear the skies. The ultimate aim of war is to hold territory and we will need every bit of air power to prevent Chinese planes from bombarding our positions.
I still dont know why 290 km range is quoted ad nauseum for brahmos.Is there any brake or something that will prevent it from going further ?! Forget the official media , they (have to?) say it .Reminds me of how bureaucracy works !
I would not discount on the fact that enemy might not consider brahmos as first strike, as cruise missiles can carry the nukes. btw, my context: war or events that leads to it.
I personally believe that no sane country will launch a nuclear strike until the bomb lands on its territory unless it is USA or Russia lobbying a 1000 missiles at each other. Anyway, even the Nirbhay / Klub / Brahmos / free fall bombs are nuke capable. That won't stop us from using them when required.
kit wrote:I still dont know why 290 km range is quoted ad nauseum for brahmos.Is there any brake or something that will prevent it from going further ?! Forget the official media , they (have to?) say it .Reminds me of how bureaucracy works !
The MTCR of which Russia is a signatory and India under various govts adheres to, has a range limit of 300km for cruise missiles.
So 290km ad nauseum is to remind anybody, especially US, that it complies with the MTCR so take it easy.
nakul wrote:I personally believe that no sane country will launch a nuclear strike until the bomb lands on its territory unless it is USA or Russia lobbying a 1000 missiles at each other. Anyway, even the Nirbhay / Klub / Brahmos / free fall bombs are nuke capable. That won't stop us from using them when required.
Brahmos is Nuke capable? I didn't know we had miniaturized the warheads enough to fit inside the thin body diameter of the Brahmos. Same question for Nirbhay and Klub applications as well. I know that we are developing MIRVs, but have they become operational yet? Or is this yet another wet dream for now?
vivek_ahuja wrote:
Brahmos is Nuke capable? I didn't know we had miniaturized the warheads enough to fit inside the thin body diameter of the Brahmos. Same question for Nirbhay and Klub applications as well. I know that we are developing MIRVs, but have they become operational yet? Or is this yet another wet dream for now?
vivek ji, i never thought i would see the day that i would have to correct u
Hmm what I do not understand is why we in BR have to repeat the MTCR mantra ., why do we say Brahmos goes only to 290 km and gripe about it . I think most of us here know difference between fact and fiction
Somewhere in a DRDO lab there are blueprints for a reusable, hypersonic UCAV that carries three or more BrahMos-variant CMs (no solid boosters needed) that are ejected rear-ward before engine ignition at hypersonic speed.
Absolutely no news about the Astra project for a long time.
Anyone knows about the current status of the Astra project.
Along with the Nirbhay missile, Astra is perhaps the most important Tactical missile project for us.
Thanks Sridhar. Was wondering if they have integrated a seeker with the missile as yet or not.
There were only reports of it being ground tested to check for its flight characteristics and see the performance of its solid rocket motor.
I think the next phase of trials will also see the missile being fired off the Su-30MKI, without a seeker onboard. The tests will only check for its airborne performance and check and separation of the missile from the plane and the interface between the missile and platform.
The tests with hopefully an Indian seeker will come next.
Any chaiwala, paanwala info would be most welcome.
Maybe India can put some nuclear bunker buster penetrating war heads on brahmos and put it on Sukhois.Would be mighty useful to have a few in reserve for our chinese friends all tunnelled in caves.
Most of the air targets on missile testing I hear from news is lakshya trailed targets. However the need is to ensure some of these tests are done against supersonic targets.
SaiK, They have two types of targets: Lakshya towed targets and Ulka which is supersonic. Not much is heard about the latter. Majority are Lakshya towed which indicates its more like ground hugging air combat.
The wiki page for Ulka also refers to a DRDO "Fluffy" target drone developed in the 70s. Pretty sure this is mischief-making by some brown or white paki with a sense of humour. Or is it?
Some time ago I had loaded some numbers into a parametric study for the Nirbhay Cruise Missile. I have had a significant hiatus from BR for the last year. But if possible, I would very much like to verify how close (or far away from the truth!) the numbers were/are. Can anyone point me to any news sources that have given details about the Nirbhay at all in the last year beyond the regular stuff?
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again what is safe, is defined by the mission alone onlee... and it need not be a static location.
