Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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chaanakya
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Lets be clear, There have been many improvements in Bullockarts including tyres and suspension etc but we are not discussing Sridevi and Madhubala here. No.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

Yes, we aren't. Madhubala would be a fine subject. But alas, we are not. Do we do that anywhere anymore? The imported british models and rejected adult performers just dont have an attracting quality.

At issue is the amount of speculation being interpreted as fact. Like Madhubala's key statistics. Facts are not a strong point of the germanwings investigation so far. Hearsay is, or given the speed at which "I have seen a video tape but we wont show it" is travelling, hare-say.

The FDR has been found. The CVR recording was out in minutes. Why is the FDR so close to chest? Is it "busted"?
The data recorder was "completely blackened" as though it had been burned and had been buried on a ravine "already explored several times," Marseille Prosecutor Brice Robin said, adding that it may still be usable.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

as though it had been burned and had been buried on a ravine "already explored several times," Marseille Prosecutor Brice Robin said
Tres interesting choice of words, n'cest pas? WHY?
chaanakya
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

FDR recordings aren't like CVR recording. It records various parameters of plane in flight along with time stamp of the event. These are digitally recorded and needs to be analysed in conjunction with other observed data and CVR mostly by the manufacturers or regulatory agencies having the facilities ( not all regulatory agencies have such facilities afaik).
Once the data is read out and saved, it can be analyzed by investigators.

The data from the FDR must first be converted into aeroplane parameters. In fact the file extracted from the recorder is a binary file known as a « raw data file »; the decoding of this file is performed using a decoding document specific to each aeroplane. The values of the parameters and their evolution over time can then be represented in the form of graphs or table, and can then be used to calculate the behaviour of the aeroplane.
I suppose it will be a while before analysis of DFDR leaks out provided it is not busted.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Shreeman wrote:

The FDR has been found. The CVR recording was out in minutes. Why is the FDR so close to chest? Is it "busted"?
French investigators are leaking like a sieve. They are compulsive disorder for partial premature disclosures.

Germanwings crash: Co-pilot Lubitz 'accelerated descent'
Data from the second 'black box' flight recorder belonging to the Germanwings plane that crashed in the Alps suggests that the co-pilot deliberately accelerated its descent, French investigators say.

They say Andreas Lubitz modified the automatic pilot system several times to increase the speed of descent.


The information they recovered also confirms earlier findings that Lubitz deliberately crashed the plane.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

chaanakya wrote:FDR recordings aren't like CVR recording. It records various parameters of plane in flight along with time stamp of the event. These are digitally recorded and needs to be analysed in conjunction with other observed data and CVR mostly by the manufacturers or regulatory agencies having the facilities ( not all regulatory agencies have such facilities afaik).
Once the data is read out and saved, it can be analyzed by investigators.


The data from the FDR must first be converted into aeroplane parameters. In fact the file extracted from the recorder is a binary file known as a « raw data file »; the decoding of this file is performed using a decoding document specific to each aeroplane. The values of the parameters and their evolution over time can then be represented in the form of graphs or table, and can then be used to calculate the behaviour of the aeroplane.
I suppose it will be a while before analysis of DFDR leaks out provided it is not busted.

Black Box Data Confirms Alps Crash Deliberate
Data from the second black box recovered from the Germanwings plane wreckage has confirmed the co-pilot crashed the jet deliberately.

"A first reading shows that the pilot in the cockpit used the automatic pilot to descend the plane towards an altitude of 100ft (30m)," said the French BEA crash investigation office in a statement.

"Then, several times during the descent, the pilot changed the automatic pilot settings to increase the aircraft's speed."
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

chaanakya wrote:
Shreeman wrote:

The FDR has been found. The CVR recording was out in minutes. Why is the FDR so close to chest? Is it "busted"?
French investigators are leaking like a sieve. They are compulsive disorder for partial premature disclosures.
I think that some WW11 remnants of unrequited hostility is playing out here. There is no reason except political for the french investigators to be so biased and mean minded towards the germans.

this may have the "subtle" support of the devious french government also.

have the french jokers forgotten that a french crewed L1049 constellation went down many years ago in approximately the very same area with the very same results though maybe not for the very same reasons??
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

chetak wrote:
I think that some WW11 remnants of unrequited hostility is playing out here. There is no reason except political for the french investigators to be so biased and mean minded towards the germans.

this may have the "subtle" support of the devious french government also.

have the french jokers forgotten that a french crewed L1049 constellation went down many years ago in approximately the very same area with the very same results though maybe not for the very same reasons??
I was about to write the same. French -German equation is on display here.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

That statement from Le Prosecoutoire, at least as translated, seemed to say bluntly:
These clowns burned the recorder, twisted it out of shape and buried it in a place where we had carefully sifted through the remains very carefully, several times. So what is on it is what was put there by whoever did that.
This is like Lt. Tragg of Perry Mason fame, finding a bullet in a place where he has carefully examined days before - it is the conclusive proof that someone planted it.
Lt. Tragg, did you and your men not search this area thoroughly and carefully before?
Of course I did, yuwar Honner! This object was not there at the time.
Does Counsel for the Defense object ?
The Defense has no objection, yuwar Honner. We have complete faith in the thoroughness and fairness of Lt. Tragg and his men. They are part of LAPD, famed for their performance in the Nicole Simpson murder case and the traffic stop of Rodney King
So all is not well with this investigation. Also, how can the "second" recorder show something that the first one did not? Weren't they recording the same events? I don't understand any of this.
The part about the long process of decoding the FR with the "exact code for each airplane" etc is pure 400% BS. In 2 weeks, they haven't got that code ready? Assuming they manage to power up the record and connect output to it (I don't see how, but it must be designed for that) why should it take more than 1 hour to get the output into pucca Microsoft EXCEL and PPT onlee?
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

I like all the quick leaking and stuff. Surely puts all the remaining pilots on a back foot. They arent asking for a raise or striking for the next decade. The FDR leaks may actually be based on factual information.

Wonder when wages start rolling back for them in the light of all the "consequences".
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Air India flight forced to return to Newark after engine trouble

Sources said the pilot's prompt action averted a disaster.

Thanks to the pilot for his/her quick thinking and calm demeanor. I travel this route with family, so I am pleased.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

saip
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by saip »

Heck. My wife is taking two AI flights tomorrow (HYD-DEL-Hongkong). Will never book by AI again.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Why not ? Where else can you watch re-enactments from Revolver Rita live while zipping along at 38000 feet, hain? 8)
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

some of these coalition compulsion ministerial @holes are seriously mentally retarded. has he not heard of the shoe bomber reid??

certifiable moron.

security agencies worldwide would have monitored this idiotic, geriatric, braggart and they will form justified judgments about our security apparatus and the men who are responsible to enforce them.

should be sacked immediately, along with the BCAS head for failing in his duties to frisk this ........ words fail me.



Aviation minister Raju brags: 'I carry matchbox on flight, I am not frisked'
NEW DELHI: Union aviation minister Ashok Gajapathi Raju on Tuesday stoked a controversy by admitting that he often carried matchboxes on flights.

And what's more, Ashok Gajapathi Raju went on to brag that being a minister he was not frisked any more and hence, he could now save his lighters and matchboxes.

The minister questioned how matchbox could become a security threat.

"You can't hijack a plane with a matchbox," the minister said, adding, "I haven't come across any incident worldwide where a matchbox had led to any threat."


"I am a heavy smoker so my matchboxes came along with me which earlier used to get confiscated," Ashok Gajapathi Raju said at a function of Bureau of civil aviation security at DRDO Bhavan.

Aviation rules do not allow anyone to carry matchbox on board flights.

However, the minister later speaking to reporters defended his comments.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

He is a fool.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Modi hasn't fired him? I mean, asked him to stick a 400% Harmless matchbox up his brain and "go"?
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

UlanBatori wrote:Modi hasn't fired him? I mean, asked him to stick a matchbox up his brain and "go"?
maybe his senility may not withstand the next cabinet reshuffle, hopefully.

his "heavy smoking" seems to have fried his tiny little royal brains
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by srin »

The correct response is not to sack him, but announce that everyone, including ministers, will be frisked.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

srin wrote:The correct response is not to sack him, but announce that everyone, including ministers, will be frisked.
sack him, frisk him, kick him but we certainly do not deserve an illiterate minister like this.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by nandakumar »

UlanBatori wrote:Why not ? Where else can you watch re-enactments from Revolver Rita live while zipping along at 38000 feet, hain? 8)
Revolver Rita. Hmmmm reminds me of the days before Vijay Shanthi action movies of 80s. Would Revolver Rita movies be competing for patronage among movie goers with Vittalacharya movies of the late 60s? My memory fails me. But then I never had money for those movies or too many movies in any case. Only wall posters for memory. Ah, those days. Thanks for bringing it back to life, you the yak herder of Outer Mongolia!
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Suraj »

A wonderfully honest statement from the soon to be ex-Union minister for civil aviation.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Revolver Rita. Hmmmm reminds me of the days before Vijay Shanthi action movies of 80s.


In our hyperventilation about Hasina Atimbum, v had phorgotten Revolver Rita?
May contain material suitable only for mature audiences
:shock: :eek: Like.. 80 years mature?
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by nandakumar »

And Bullet Rani, Judo Sundari, Jackpot Jango etc. Will stop here. Don't want tobe accused of derailing the thread!
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Germanwings pilot Andreas Lubitz was seeing an 'astonishing' number of doctors

Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was seeing an “astonishing” number of doctors before he downed a plane into the French Alps, a leaked medical report has revealed.

The 27-year-old was consulting at least five doctors, Der Spiegel reported, including psychiatric specialists and a neurologist.

“For a young man he consulted an astonishing number of doctors,” an investigator told the magazine, which has seen a report on Lubitz’s treatment.

Five separate practices have so far handed their information on the co-pilot to investigators and more may yet come forward.

He had been signed off work for unspecified medical reasons on the fortnight around 24 March, the day of the disaster, but officials previously said ripped up letters found at his home suggested he hid his illness from employers.


The Dusseldorf state prosecutor has not officially confirmed what those medical notes referred to but Lubitz’s struggle with severe depression has been dated back to 2009, when he took a break of several months in his flight training.

He was treated for “suicidal tendencies” before he qualified, officials in Dusseldorf confirmed, but more recent doctors’ visits had not uncovered a desire to kill himself or anyone else.


Other evidence has suggested that Lubitz may have been seeking treatment for eyesight problems that he feared could put his flying career at risk.

Under the username “Skydevil”, he searched for information on “bipolarity”, “manic depression”, “migraines”, “impaired vision” and “acoustic trauma” in the weeks leading up to his apparent murder-suicide, Bild am Sonntag reported.

Evidence from the crashed plane’s black boxes suggests that Lubitz locked the cockpit door when the pilot left for a toilet break and used controls to override the entry code, downing the plane as the pilot desperately tried to break back in with a crow bar.

He sped up the plane’s descent as it hurtled towards the earth, investigators said, obliterating it on the slopes of the French Alps at 430mph and killing all 150 people on board. Rescue workers and investigators collect debris at the crash site of the Germanwings Airbus A320, near Seyne-les-Alpes Rescue workers and investigators collect debris at the crash site of the Germanwings Airbus A320, near Seyne-les-Alpes

Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings, said Lubitz informed his training school of a period of severe depression in 2009 but subsequently passed all medical and “fit to fly" tests.

But the Luftfahrtbundesamt (LBA), the German aviation authority which issues pilots' licences based on annual certificates given by doctors and can impose restrictions, said it had “no information at all” prior to the crash about that period of mental illness.

According to European regulations, doctors should refer pilots with psychiatric conditions to the licensing authority, although they do not specify if this also applies to pilots who have suffered in the past.


“Lufthansa meets its duty to provide information to the LBA,” the airline said in a statement on Sunday. Rescue workers and gendarmerie continue their search operation near the site of the Germanwings plane crash on March 29, 2015 in Seyne les Alpes, France Rescue workers and gendarmerie continue their search operation near the site of the Germanwings plane crash

The statement came a day after the European Commission said its aviation regulator, the EASA, had found “issues” with the LBA in a regular review of air safety enforcement.

Officials found that the authority had a lack of staff, which could have limited its ability to carry out checks on planes and crew, including medical checks.


French air accident authority the BEA has also said its investigation into the Germanwings crash would study “systemic weaknesses” that might have led to the disaster, including psychological profiling
.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

Le plane bin engine mit sayonara -- http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/ ... MS20150408

Are these planes suddenly not TFTA?
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by srin »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 36028.aspx
Union ministers of state, former vice-presidents, deputy chief ministers and the cabinet secretary are among those who may have to queue up at airports and get frisked, just like ordinary passengers for security clearance, if the government approves an aviation ministry proposal.
If accepted, the proposal will allow only certain VVIPs, including the President, the vice- president, the Prime Minister and governors, among others, to board planes without going through multilayered clearance.

Former presidents, deputy prime minister, the Chief Justice of India, speaker of the Lok Sabha, Union cabinet ministers, chief ministers, former prime ministers, leaders of Opposition in both Houses, Bharat Ratna awardees, ambassadors, Supreme Court judges, UPSC chairperson, chief election commissioner and the comptroller and auditor general of India will also retain their exemption from frisking status and have been clubbed under nine VVIP categories in the new plan.
Seriously - Bharat Ratna awardees ? I just don't see the logic of all these CAGs, CECs, ministers, judges on the list. Do they consider themselves too "high" to be frisked by a CISF jawan ? Or do they all have to officially carry secret things that CISF shouldn't know ?
Those who could lose the perk of boarding a plane without getting frisked include the deputy chairperson of the Rajya Sabha, deputy speaker of the Lok Sabha, the attorney general, lieutenant governors of Union territories, chiefs of staffs holding the rank of full general of equivalent rank, chief justices of high courts, chief ministers and deputy chief ministers of Union territories, and Congress president Sonia Gandhi’s son-in-law Robert Vadra.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Frisking seems to be outdated procedure. None of my visits abroad involved bodily frisking at any of the foreign airports. And so all other passengers that were in queue ahead of behind me. The only thing everyone insisted is to remove anything which may trip the DFMDs and Full body scanners. Of course in India everytime you go in they have the pleasure of touching your body in all places. CISF could go for no frisking policy and upgrade its equipments. VVIPs have separate entrance which are not meant for VIPs and ordinary passengers. Their boarding takes place minutes before closing. Staff are assigned separately for each VVIP during entire period of arrival and departure at the airport b the concerned airlines. Separate protocol officers accompany and manage the visit till the embarkation point or after disembarkation. Because of this , getting onto the list is very attractive. not because of frisking.Even CISF comdt is not frisked and is accompanied by one jawan from the group at the airport because they are manning the security. Though they may not be on the List. but they can't go through VVIP arrival/departure gates.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by srin »

I agree.
I've been frisked during transit at Frankfurt airport when my shoes triggered the doorway detector (only US requires removing shoes - which is a big pain). It isn't the default though - but the price you pay is to remove belt, watch etc - anything that can trigger the alarm.

The point is if normal janta passengers are frisked, then others should too. If the normal janta passengers need to tag their baggage (which I have never understood), then others should too. Either it helps in security or it does not.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

srin wrote:I agree.
I've been frisked during transit at Frankfurt airport when my shoes triggered the doorway detector (only US requires removing shoes - which is a big pain). It isn't the default though - but the price you pay is to remove belt, watch etc - anything that can trigger the alarm.

The point is if normal janta passengers are frisked, then others should too. If the normal janta passengers need to tag their baggage (which I have never understood), then others should too. Either it helps in security or it does not.
I did not notice tagging anywhere else. And I hope aam aadmi is spared frisking too. Its so embarrassing someone groping everywhere and you stand there like a scarecrow. CISF should change the procedure. make it more dignified and non-interventional except in rarest of rare cases like some Jamaai going abroad unannounced.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

They could just have everyone go through an MRI arch and see who gets "levitated" 8)
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Singha »

haaretz.co.il

Meanwhile, a number of experts have suggested that the Germanwings plane may have been downed by hackers, rather than a co-pilot bent on suicide.

In a letter to the Financial Times newspaper, Matt Anderson, president of Chicago-based Indigo Aerospace, wrote that a hack of the plane's electronics could also have caused the fatal crash, The Mirror website reported.

"It could be from any number of causes, including external electronic hacking into the aircraft's control and navigation systems through malware or electromagnetic interception," Anderson wrote.

"This is one reason military and head-of-state aircraft are generally installed with specific shielding and additional active protective measures. Civilian aircraft are not."

Andersson advised the public to wait for a "thorough, multi-party professional air safety investigation" before jumping to conclusions.

"Both the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and the flight data recorder (FDR) of the Germanwings flight 9525 have yet to be subject to international standards," he said.

Jay Rollins, a former commercial pilot, made the same point in an interview with American TV network MSNBC.

"This aircraft is highly computerized," Rollins said. "There's one possibility that no-one has brought up. I wonder – could this be a hacking incident?"

He compared the Germanwings disaster to the loss of a United States drone over Iran in 2011, which some pundits have blamed on electronic hacking.

"Suddenly the aircraft starts responding to outside forces," he said. "If something like that were going on it would be very disturbing for the pilot."
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

"There's one possibility that no-one has brought up."
:(( :(( :((
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Post by Shreeman »

Image

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/a ... -hiroshima

Passengers aboard flight OZ162 --A320.

Asiana, Air Asia, anything with asia in it is gaining a reputation. As is the A320.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

There were many to defend Europe and Germanwings and their peelots.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Lufthansa may face corporate manslaughter charges over Germanwings disaster after psychiatrists allowed suicidal co-pilot to return to the cockpit

Investigators believe the 27-year-old co-pilot locked his captain out of the cockpit before deliberately crashing the plane, killing all

Lufthansa may face corporate manslaughter charges for allowing suicidal pilot Andreas Lubitz (pictured) to fly, it has been reported


Citing documents found by Germany's air transport authority, the Bild am Sonntag said the doctors wrote that 'Lubitz should continue to receive psychological treatment, even though he was deemed fit to fly' by an independent expert in 2009.

It comes as German magazine Focus reported the airline had opened itself up to criminal proceedings because one of its own psychiatrists allowed him to return to flying, The Mirror reported. Lufthansa declined to comment.

Recordings from the flight data recorder suggest co-pilot Andreas Lubitz locked the captain out of the cockpit before 'deliberately' crashing the jet.

Lufthansa has previously indicated it was under no obligation to report to Germany's national aviation authority of the fact Lubitz had suffered from depression before qualifying as a pilot several years ago.


Germany's Welt am Sonntag newspaper quoted the Federal Aviation Office as saying that it wasn't informed about Lubitz's previous depression before the March 24 crash of Flight 9525.

Lufthansa has said Lubitz informed its flight school when he returned from a several-month break in pilot training in 2009 that he had experienced an episode of 'severe depression'. It has said he subsequently passed all medical tests.



The Airbus A320 went down in a remote region of the French Alps en route to Dusseldorf from Barcelona

Meanwhile, crash investigators are now examining a computer belonging to Lubitz to determine whether he 'spiked' his captain's drink to force him into the toilet.
:eek:

The 27-year-old changed the aircraft's altitude to just 100 feet using the autopilot - sending it on a collision course with the Alps.

German prosecutors believe that Lubitz may have added a chemical to Captain Patrick Sodenheimer's coffee to remove him from the flight deck.

Once Captain Sodenheimer closed the cockpit door, Lubitz enabled special security features preventing the reinforced door from reopening.

The safety systems were introduced following the 9/11 attacks although the designers did not consider a rogue pilot seeking to kill himself while taking his passengers and fellow crew with him
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Altair »

Hijack hack: Modern planes vulnerable to remote midair takeover, says US govt watchdog
Modern commercial aircraft could be remotely hacked and taken control of, even by someone on the ground, as they are increasingly connected to the internet, according to the latest report by the US Government Accountability Office.

"Modern communications technologies, including IP connectivity, are increasingly used in aircraft systems, creating the possibility that unauthorized individuals might access and compromise aircraft avionics systems," the report states, quoting cyber security and aviation experts.

Modern aircraft systems use IP networking to communicate within the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA), and if one system connected to an IP network is compromised, damage can potentially spread to other systems on the network.

The report doesn’t provide any specifics on how the hacking and taking over could be done, but states that the person would have to get through the firewalls that divide the aircraft’s flight control and entertainment systems.

“Firewalls are software components, they could be hacked like any other software and circumvented,” the report cited experts as saying.

The report enumerates the ways that it could potentially be done by a hacker.

Read more
​Computer virus infected FAA system, agency admits

A “virus or malware planted in websites visited by passengers” could enable the attacker to get access to the onboard data system via the infected computers.

There is also the possibility of a physical connection, such as a USB plug in a passenger seat, should those wires be connected to the plane’s electronics.

However, there are ways to deal with such a threat: modern planes have a several redundancy mechanisms that can be used to deal with the potential issues.

The GAO report doesn’t specify if there has been actual testing or only theoretical mockups of such situations.

Older planes aren’t so internet-based, and this makes the risk less for the aircraft as old as 20 years or more.

READ MORE: Air Force begins installing modern computer system in B-52 bombers

The report concludes that FAA needs to work on certification of aircraft avionics that will account for these vulnerabilities and remove them as possible threats to commercial aviation.

In response, the agency drafted a letter, with Keith Washington, acting assistant secretary for administration with the FAA, saying the agency "recognizes that cyber-based threats to federal information systems are becoming a more significant risk and are rapidly evolving and increasingly difficult to detect and defend against. We take this risk very seriously."

Boeing and Airbus also reacted to the report, with the former stressing they aim to design secure aircraft.

The jets “have more than one navigational system available to pilots,” and then “no changes to the flight plans loaded into the airplane systems can take place without pilot review and approval.”

In addition, there are a few security measures in place that “help ensure safe and secure airplane operations.”

Airbus published a statement saying that they “constantly assess and revisits the system architecture of <…> products, with an eye to establishing and maintaining the highest standards of safety and security.”

However, they didn’t disclose any specifics beyond that.
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