India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2015 22:08

Swastika - that will teach them vegetarian raping nazi hindoos. Irony oh the irony.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Feb 2015 22:37

matrimc wrote:Swastika - that will teach them vegetarian raping nazi hindoos. Irony oh the irony.

Come on, it is turned around. That makes all the difference!

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Feb 2015 23:25

I had a good laugh looking at the fotu of the divine appearance of swastika. I think the "muslims go back" should be painted over after the law takes its due course- that was a vandalism that must be dealt with per law and the swastika should be prayed as a divine message of god - a miracle. And all temples across US should honor the divine appearance of the Swastika and dedicate a Swastika day for it with different forms of Swastika displayed in multi-colours and totally celebrated!

And Obama should be urged to spend more on educating the uneducated folks of Umrika.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2015 23:33

In fact they earned a lot of puNya today. Today being shiva ratri and all that. May be they should be punished with doing 1000 hours of community service of going to every heendoo temple in the US and adorn the four walls with nice swatikas. Money will come out of a grant that comes out of federal funding for faith based organisations.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Feb 2015 23:57

arun wrote:[quote="sooraj">>]Hindu temple vandalised in Washington with hate message

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/hindu ... 150217.htm

..............{Snipped}............[<</quote]
<SNIP>
Meanwhile has U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) Chairman Katrina Lantos Swett who is ever ready to castigate India, and who gleefully jumped in to support US President Obama’s comment about India said anything to condemn this lack of protections for a Hindu temple?

[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Now, now. Let us not be hasty, shall we? Imagine a situation, wherein someone knocks on your door, tells you that his religion alone is true, declares that unbelievers to his exclusive religion will go to hell, and then gently demands that you must convert only. Now imagine that you 'hold your ground' ie warn the uninvited preacher to stay off your property OR shoot him OR call police who promptly tackle the self-righteous preacher off ground and breaks his spine while at it.

Now if it happens in India when the preacher is Christian and the host is Hindoo, then USCIRF will make an 'international' issue out of it. If it happens in USA when a gentleman is not even preaching - or walks on your property even - and the one who tackles the gentleman is trained state police, then USCIRF will ignore it.

It is similar for the temple. At least, the police in USA are quickly investigating. In India, you just have to keep quite if the dude carries a holy book with him. Otherwise, the same USCIRF will make an issue out of it too. So cases of thefts near election times will be a huge issue, however outright looting of temples, or assassination of swami Lakshmanananda or swami Shanti Kali by hired guns, or ethnic cleansing of Kuki tribes in Nagaland or cases of armouries in high seas near the Indian coasts, or arming Maoists in central India, will be ignored completely as issues. With obligatory words like "upper caste" in some paragraph only.

Come to think of it, the fine white civilized from USA used modern sprayer to spray paint. In India, people still use cow dung!

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 18 Feb 2015 00:20

"We are investigating" -- Seattle Police == "We are investigating" -- Jodhpur Police?, like how the grand poobah pontificated?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 18 Feb 2015 00:50

ramana wrote:In a roundabout way the victim is being blamed. No its lack of English. Next what color? The real problem is he neighbor who called in the police. Afer that all bets are off. I recall a Florida football player had a car breakdown and kn coked on someone's door for help. She called police who pumped him with many bullets.

Will ge name and details if anyone wants.

That was Jonathan Ferrell a former Florida A&M football player (and black of course).
James Comey FBI director (white) has this to say:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinio ... story.html

Of course, when Obama and Holder (black ) said the same thing the Repubs came down hard.

My comment about the local language is simply to observe that these cops LOOK for things. If the cop cannot understand what someone is saying to him, his reptilian brain goes into overdrive. If he's been fed this image of a large black man knocking on doors (and looking like hell from the accident), same thing happens.

I mean we are not dealing with humanoids here. We are 'civilians' to them.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Feb 2015 00:51

^^ shreeman, wow where do you find such stuff?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 18 Feb 2015 00:57

Karan M wrote:^^ shreeman, wow where do you find such stuff?

Luck puts me in the wrong place at the wrong time. I also dont forget.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2015 02:55

It was posted right here during the Ferguson cops outrage...

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 18 Feb 2015 03:04

ramana wrote:It was posted right here during the Ferguson cops outrage...

By me.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2015 03:21

So morons didn't know swastika is Hindu symbol.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 18 Feb 2015 03:25

Thr argument isnt that they dont know that swastika is hindu. It is that any resemblence -- in temples, hedges, trees, buildings -- is now offensive because hitler used it. Once used by a white person in bad way, all native symbols need to be discarded. Completely. Centuries old trees must be cut. Buildings whitewashed or better demolished. If Hitler had chosen to be hindu, you would all have had to convert to christianity or something in remorse. Hitler woul never known to use a symbol if you heathens had not been painting it on your foreheads.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Feb 2015 04:33

The Question Of Evangelism In India
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suhag-a-s ... tml?ref=tw

But since the 12th century, starting with the Islamic invasions and colonizing European missionaries to today, India faces a different kind of religious visitor -- one that seeks not to sweeten the milk, but curdle it.Exhibit A -- the evangelical Joshua Project -- is just one example of what India, at the heart of the 10-40 Window, is facing. The Joshua Project is an information powerhouse -- detailing logistical information about people groups around the world, and providing ideas to Evangelicals committed to mass church-planting, and in turn conversions, among every ethnic group. The data is meticulous and well-researched, and both shocking and disturbing.The Joshua Project lists the percentage of unreached in India as 93.3% -- that's basically every Indian Hindu, Muslim, Jain, Sikh, and Buddhist. Last-name, clan, caste, or tribe-based communities are catalogued according to location, religious affiliation, language, and population -- the data collection puts the postal systems of most developed nations to shame. Technical acronyms such as CPI, or Church Planting Indicator, with a ranking system of 0 to 5, measure the progress of church growth based on churches established and number of "believers" regularly attending. Then there's the progress scale which allows the "Saved" to track, well ... "progress" of the "Harvest" -- red indicating less than 2% Evangelical and less than 5% Christian, yellow indicating less than 2% Evangelical but greater than 5% Christian, and green indicating from 2% to greater than 5% Evangelical. And of course, what worldwide project of this scale and in this century would be complete without an iPhone App?The response by a few states in India to campaigns inspired by projects like Joshua, and what can be characterized as nothing less than primarily American and European faith-based ops intended to alter Indian religious demographics, has been what most outside of India refer to as "anti-conversion" laws. Interestingly, many of these same states, as well as Indian states with rising inter-religious tension, when cross-checked with the Joshua Project's "progress" scale, are states that show increasing green and yellow. Some may ask, what's the big deal? Doesn't the 2001 Indian census indicate only 2.3% of the population as Christian? Yes, but these percentages have come under question given the fact that a large number of converts retain their Hindu names and claim Hindu status for a variety of reasons. The data from Joshua Project, which doesn't account for non-Evangelical efforts, also suggests rapid growth.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Feb 2015 07:36

Martin Luther King would have been SHOCKED!

saip · Post by **saip** » 18 Feb 2015 07:42

About the Hindu temple, may be who ever did this had no idea to which religion it belonged to. If they had gone inside they would have noticed many swastikas I am sure. So painting swastika makes no sense. May be they thought it is Jewish synagogue?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Feb 2015 10:57

MLK would have slapped Obama for doing little for their community!

habal · Post by **habal** » 18 Feb 2015 12:29

eric parker, apparently has a 4 year degree in 'political science' from university of alabama, huntsville.

"Another friend of his, Anthony Bowling, reached out to AL.com. Bowling said their friendship through Brewer High School and the University of Alabama in Huntsville, has made them as close as "brothers." He said they were roommates from 2012 to 2014.

Bowling, who said he spoke to Parker early on Friday, did not speak about the case itself. But Bowling offered his feelings on Parker as a dedicated officer who only wanted to help people.

"One hundred percent he went in for the right reasons," he said.

He said the almost two years Parker spent on the force were what he always wanted to do. He said friends felt Parker was overqualified with his political science degree, but Parker was enthusiastic to take his entrance exams and was all too anxious for their results."

And a funding page has been set up, it's currently at about 30% from the $10K goal.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 18 Feb 2015 13:11

^^^ Thats about right. You need at least a high school diploma to paralyze someone.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Feb 2015 14:02

Even Osama bin Laden, the No.1 enemy of the United States of Amrika was a well qualified Engineer.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Feb 2015 14:49

Hope govt will look afresh at US def foundational pacts:Kohler

US companies are hopeful that the Narendra Modi government will take a fresh look at the issue of signing US foundational agreements for transfer of military technology and weapons, according to a top Boeing official.

"I hope the new government will take a fresh look at it. I think it is India's advantage to do so. It will really ease a lot of government to government transactions," said retired US Air Force Lt General and Boeing's vice presedent for International Business Development Defense Space and Security.

The UPA government had refused to sign the agreements. "It will also build more trust on the US side that India does recognise and take more seriously some security issues around very sensitive technology," Kohler, here for the ongoing five-day Aero India air show, told PTI.

US law requires the country to sign three agreements - logistics support, CISMOA (Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement) and BECA (Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for geo-spatial cooperation) - before agreeing to transfer sophisticated military technology and weapons.

Kohler said the change the new government made to increase FDI to 49 per cent was a very positive step, but things wouldn't happen overnight.

Kohler was earlier Director of the US' Defense Security Cooperation Agency that is tasked with directing and overseeing American foreign military sales along with other functions.

Kohler said "Even "Make In India" may not move as fast as some Indians would like to see because it takes time."He said "You just don't jump into the global supply chain as a top supplier with no experience. So you have to start small and build the way up."

Kohler said the workforce and management have to understand that they have to be competitive in the global market - by having the best product at the lowest cost.

"The workforce and management have to understand that they have to be competitive in the global market - I have to have the best product at the lowest cost, and Indian companies are going to help a lot there. It takes time to build up experience and know-how to get that done," he added.

Kohler said US companies are definitely ready to share their intellectual property with countries for them to produce the product.

Right now, Kohler said, what India needs is to be part of global supply chain, not necessarily niche defence products. "The Indian industry needs most right now is to be a part of global supply chain, not necessarily niche defence products, but get into the global supply chain," he added.

Explaining the need for signing foundational agreements, Kohler said, "During the discussions with Indian counterparts when I was with the US government, I had said - suppose India sells the Brahmos to country A and then it sells to country B and then to country C and that country sells to them who are at your border - How do you feel? There will be security problems," he said.

"India needs to protect their technology so that it does not fall in wrong hands and is used against it some day. These are the issues that India has to sort it out," Kohler added.

Asked about the future of Indo-US defence cooperation, Kohler said defence technology and trade initiative Modi and US President Barack Obama talked about has been very positive.

"I think the defence technology and trade initiative Prime Minister Modi and President Obama talked about is very positive. They selected a couple of projects," he said.

He said he is very excited about the future, but in some ways they are little hindered by some offset policies, in spite of making steady progress.

"In some ways we are little hindered by some of the offset policies, although are making steady progress where we need to be," he added.

However, Kohler said it does not mean that US companies don't want to do offsets."I don't mean that US companies don't want to do offsets. We do that in the world. We just accept that as a part of business internationally, but there has been so much promise in India," he added.

Asked whether US companies are ready to pump in money and set up units in India and share the technology know-how when the Indian government has been stressing on "Make In India" policy, Kohler said that the US government and its companies are willing to share "small amounts" of sensitive technology.

"US companies and US government are willing to share very small amount of sensitive technology. Share - and let the Indian government use it, but may be not teach everything about how to build it," he said.

Kohler, moreover, said the US would definitely want partners, but business dynamics does not allow giving away all their technology because they are in the business of making money to continue their growth.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Feb 2015 15:45

Why the effing haste to sign def., deals with the racist US of A? The racial hatred being seen in the US against the minorities whose colour is not "snow white",is simply appalling. We have to protest as loudly as we can to expose the hypocrisy and duplicity of the Yanquis as the US has arrogated to itself the moral authority of the so-called free world!

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 18 Feb 2015 18:56

Right now, Kohler said, what India needs is to be part of global supply chain, not necessarily niche defence products. "The Indian industry needs most right now is to be a part of global supply chain, not necessarily niche defence products, but get into the global supply chain," he added.

The problem with this was recently seen in Russia where the US ordered all its companies out -- the equivalent of pulling the economic run from under a nation -- India would have to diversify its trade relationships to the point where such an act by any one country cannot harm its economy in serious ways.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Feb 2015 19:09

Explaining the need for signing foundational agreements, Kohler said, "During the discussions with Indian counterparts when I was with the US government, I had said - suppose India sells the Brahmos to country A and then it sells to country B and then to country C and that country sells to them who are at your border - How do you feel? There will be security problems," he said.

Sau chuhe kha ke, billi hajj ko chali!

After selling all kind of weapons to pakis, and ignoring black market of nukes and terrorism under nuclear umbrella, now there is a talk of India selling "Brahmos to country A .. that sells to them who are at your border".

So this is what "foundation agreement" has been about, and never been the other way that Americans are doing already which is to let pakis buy American weapons directly/indirectly.

Curious mention of Brahmos, too, however it only shows that Indians must diversify its trade relationships, as mentioned by Tuvaluan ji. By that, I mean at level of logistics where components are also diversified so as to reduce threat at logistics level.

We must point out that Americans need to talk big once they behave well for about 75 years - that must be the bottom line.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Feb 2015 23:20

Tuvaluan wrote:The problem with this was recently seen in Russia where the US ordered all its companies out -- the equivalent of pulling the economic run from under a nation -- India would have to diversify its trade relationships to the point where such an act by any one country cannot harm its economy in serious ways.

The US doesn't have a lot of supply chain entities in Russia. They mostly sold finished goods there. What hurt the Russians was the capital flight and exclusion from the international currency and transaction clearance system. It appears they depend on external interbank networks, rather than maintain an independent one. They were also blocked out from SWIFT. Those are the kind of things that hurt. It's more imperative that India have its own interbank network rather than leverage LINK, Pule, STAR, VISA or some other western one. The Chinese have one, called UnionPay. The Chinese and Russians are also working on an alternative to SWIFT . Having US businesses invest in fixed assets in India is actually a benefit to us, because we can also threaten to confiscate them. It's their control over capital flows that's more dangerous.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Feb 2015 23:51

Almost all members of SWIFT development team are PIOs - back in late 1980s. True with both development centers - main Culpepper, VA and La Hulpe, Belgium.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Feb 2015 05:11

All right, line up people. Who wants the next apology!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Feb 2015 06:10

The racist mofo sh1thead says 'Patel' . Not MR. Patel. Up his!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Feb 2015 06:43

Shreeman wrote:If Indians have the means to travel, visit, or settle then they should do so. To the farthest possible lands, and despite these hurdles.

That should happen in millions. That is the real long term way to save India and the World. Indic values are still one of the best out there.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Feb 2015 08:20

SwamyG[uru]: What are "Indic values" and using what metric are they "one of the best out there"?

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 19 Feb 2015 08:21

Jhujar wrote:The Question Of Evangelism In India
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suhag-a-s ... tml?ref=tw
But since the 12th century, starting with the Islamic invasions and colonizing European missionaries to today, India faces a different kind of religious visitor -- one that seeks not to sweeten the milk, but curdle it.Exhibit A -- the evangelical Joshua Project -- is just one example of what India, at the heart of the 10-40 Window, is facing. The Joshua Project is an information powerhouse -- detailing logistical information about people groups around the world, and providing ideas to Evangelicals committed to mass church-planting, and in turn conversions, among every ethnic group. The data is meticulous and well-researched, and both shocking and disturbing.The Joshua Project lists the percentage of unreached in India as 93.3% -- that's basically every Indian Hindu, Muslim, Jain, Sikh, and Buddhist. Last-name, clan, caste, or tribe-based communities are catalogued according to location, religious affiliation, language, and population -- the data collection puts the postal systems of most developed nations to shame. Technical acronyms such as CPI, or Church Planting Indicator, with a ranking system of 0 to 5, measure the progress of church growth based on churches established and number of "believers" regularly attending. Then there's the progress scale which allows the "Saved" to track, well ... "progress" of the "Harvest" -- red indicating less than 2% Evangelical and less than 5% Christian, yellow indicating less than 2% Evangelical but greater than 5% Christian, and green indicating from 2% to greater than 5% Evangelical. And of course, what worldwide project of this scale and in this century would be complete without an iPhone App?The response by a few states in India to campaigns inspired by projects like Joshua, and what can be characterized as nothing less than primarily American and European faith-based ops intended to alter Indian religious demographics, has been what most outside of India refer to as "anti-conversion" laws. Interestingly, many of these same states, as well as Indian states with rising inter-religious tension, when cross-checked with the Joshua Project's "progress" scale, are states that show increasing green and yellow. Some may ask, what's the big deal? Doesn't the 2001 Indian census indicate only 2.3% of the population as Christian? Yes, but these percentages have come under question given the fact that a large number of converts retain their Hindu names and claim Hindu status for a variety of reasons. The data from Joshua Project, which doesn't account for non-Evangelical efforts, also suggests rapid growth.

Wow, that is something. Look at the nice interactive site they have:

http://joshuaproject.net/countries/IN

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Feb 2015 08:27

matrimc wrote:SwamyG[uru]: What are "Indic values" and using what metric are they "one of the best out there"?

The test/metric is: What is the position of the culture on killing another human being. And if you must, as a last resort, does it afford the remains any due dignity.
The rank is : 1.

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Feb 2015 09:21

intense discussion regarding the madison event going on here.
seems the cop was terminated the same day as the event happened.

I actually know the officer involved in this incident. He doesn't have a facebook, but I am friends with his wife on facebook and she has stated that he was terminated on that Friday without pay. I have a screen shot of her facebook post with their names removed if someone would like to imbed it. It seems to me like he might have lost it on this old guy and the department terminated him almost immediately, but are dragging out the announcement of it to let things cool down some?

FWIW, the officer is an older guy (mid 50's) and small in stature. I've known him for about 15 years and have a really hard time thinking he actually did that. He hadn't worked for Madison PD very long, but has previous LE experience.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Feb 2015 10:08

Shreeman wrote:
matrimc wrote:SwamyG[uru]: What are "Indic values" and using what metric are they "one of the best out there"?
The test/metric is: What is the position of the culture on killing another human being. And if you must, as a last resort, does it afford the remains any due dignity.
The rank is : 1.

I agree with that metric. Is it a defining feature of indic values then?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Feb 2015 10:52

Yes -- ahimsa.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 19 Feb 2015 18:05

ahimsa is all fine, but it should not stop one from developing the skill and will to be armed and dangerous. Letting one's enemies force you into the "ahimsa" corner does not always help and maybe injurious to health.

We have violent countries like US and USA preaching about Gandhi's values to us, while simultaneously doing everything they can to mess with us...so ahimsa should have nothing to do with being armed and dangerous with the will to use force if required -- going the way of Gandhi and showing one's back as knife holder is generally suicidal. Just saying.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Feb 2015 20:46

T, When the definition is being provided when asked what's the point of refuting it without an alternate definition?
We allowed West to steal Gandhi long ago.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 19 Feb 2015 21:23

Ramanaji, I am not disagreeing with defining ahimsa as a differentiator for indian civilizational values, but that defining oneself purely in those terms can end up being self-defeating. Gandhi is an example of how pushing that concept beyond a certain point can work against self-preservation...I think the west just uses gandhi as a convenient symbol to insist on docile behavior from Indians. Gandhianism is ok upto a certain point, but it can deteriorate into ending up with no skills for self-defense if pushed too far. That's what I meant.

Added later: usually Gandhi is mentioned by western academics and journalists when they are busy pointing out why India does not need nuclear weapons to defend itself -- that kind of psyops actually gets a lot of younger Indians these days going, "you know, that is so right, ya...we need to give up nukes right now and kill with kindness".

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Feb 2015 07:20

^^^ Only the strong can be non-violent; Gandhi recognized that; it is very easy to be cowardly and "non-violent".

Anyway, few American takers for Hindi:
http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2015/02/19/fe ... for-hindi/

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 20 Feb 2015 07:32

^^^
kinda pointless once you are dead due to "strong non violence" -- clearly there is a context for when that is applicable. If "Strength" implies the capability to inflict violence, then that statement "only the strong can be non violent" is reasonable, otherwise it is rhetorical nonsense. Principles and moral strength usually vanish once someone slices your head off in a "cowardly" manner. Just stating the obvious, but apparently this needs to be stated out loud for some reason. IIRC, even Gandhi said as much about the context of using non violence as a strategy to fight violent adversaries...can't find that quote though, assuming it was not something someone made up on the interwebs.