Military Flight Safety

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1791526094245412961

Already posted in this thread. Please see the post above yours.

[sajaym]

The president of Iran has been killed in a helicopter crash in exactly similar conditions like the crash of Gen. Bipin Rawat. What I don't understand is - when the pilots experience sudden changes in weather in/over mountains, and they are aware that many crashes have happened in similar situations, why they don't just increase their altitude, turn around 360 degrees and return back to their point of origination. Maybe manufacturers will need to incorporate some AI feature in the helicopter's autopilot to execute the 'return to last waypoint ' procedure...since obviously human pilots are unable to do this.

[AkshaySG]

.

Usually for VIP and VVIP pilots there is the added pressure of getting their clients to the site even if it's nit formally spoken, I don't know how the Iranian President would have handled being told he can't go to the location due to fog but it is possible there may be some backlash against the pilot for doing so

Disorientation is possible even after years of training because eve you fly a lot the exact combination of location and weather can come up with something entirely new

[VinodTK]

Entire Dhruv fleet set to get key safety upgrade by end of month
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 21758.html
04 June 2024

Replacement of the collective control rod has been completed in all the helicopters, said a senior official who asked not to be named.
Replacement of the other two rods (lateral and longitudinal) in the ALH fleet is underway and is expected to be completed by June-end, said another official who also asked not to be named.

[rajkumar]

Bad News coming in from #Nashik. Airforce #Fighter Aircraft crashed at Shirasgaon in Niphad taluka. Pilot ejected Safely. CoI ordered.

https://x.com/FrontalForce/status/1797918459428479325

[Manish_P]

WSO as well right?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/manishindiatv/status/1797922336945193457 ---> Su-30MKI crashed. Both pilots ejected and have been recovered safely. The aircraft was undergoing flight testing post overhaul and was under HAL's inventory. Formal statement by HAL soon.

[Manish_P]

Well thank

https://x.com/manishindiatv/status/1797922336945193457 ---> Su-30MKI crashed. Both pilots ejected and have been recovered safely. The aircraft was undergoing flight testing post overhaul and was under HAL's inventory. Formal statement by HAL soon.

Thank heavens for that. Also no loss of life property on the ground it seems.

So best of a bad thing

Guess it's been a day for such stuff

[sajaym]

'under HAL's inventory ' ? Like...when I send my car for service it becomes the ASS's temporarily even though it is mine?

[ArjunPandit]

'under HAL's inventory ' ? Like...when I send my car for service it becomes the ASS's temporarily even though it is mine?

IIRC Some Su 30s were transferred to HAL for regular testing for the "Desi Super Sukhoi" upgrades that was being talked few months back. They were to be with HAL unless the balloon goes up. I think these were test pilots.
All said and done everything is GOI/IAF property, HAL keeping them or doing whatever ..would not be without MOD/GOI approval.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1800527808537755701 ---> Tejas fighter jet of Indian Air Force landed at Surat airport, Emergency landing, Low fuel message received.

[basant]

Engine seizure led to IAF’s first LCA Tejas crash, say officials

...
“The engine seizure appears to have been caused by an oil pump malfunction,” said one of the officials cited above, asking not to be named. To be sure, the court of inquiry into the accident is yet to be completed.

IAF inducted its first Tejas aircraft in July 2016 and currently operates two Mk-1 squadrons. The aircraft that crashed was part of the 40 Mk-1 jets inducted by IAF in the initial operational clearance (IOC) and the more advanced final operational clearance (FOC) configurations -- the first variants of LCA.

IAF ordered the inspection of each plane after the March 12 crash.

“Safety checks on the entire LCA Mk-1 fleet were carried out. No safety issues were found with the fighter,” said the second official, who also asked not to be named. LCA Mk-1 is powered by US firm GE Aerospace’s F404 engine.
...

Note: X-posted from Tejas thread

[Rakesh]

This thread should also be an inspiration! Read below!

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1823674102256951406 ---> On 24 July 23, during a sortie on Jaguar fighter aircraft, he experienced an unprecedented Oil 1 and Oil 2 failure warning. The warning indicated a major Oil system malfunction warranting immediate shut down of both engines to prevent their imminent seizure. Such a situation had never occurred in the past and actions for such system failure have not been envisaged. The pilot while maintaining a calm composure, decided to shut down the left engine and initiated recovery using the right engine for the closest runway. While on approach, at an altitude of 2500 feet, the right engine failed catastrophically.

The aircraft was now in a powerless glide, losing altitude rapidly and approaching densely populated Gorakhpur town. Since the only serviceable engine had also seized, the situation warranted an immediate ejection. The pilot while displaying superlative flying skills, controlled the aircraft, turned away to prevent loss of civilian life and property in case of a probable ejection and jettisoned empty fuel tanks clear of populated area. He simultaneously decided to attempt relight on the left engine and successfully revived it. He then deftly controlled and recovered the aircraft safely off a single engine.

During these multiple life-threatening situations, the officer displayed exceptional courage, perseverance and composure in recovering a gravely stricken aircraft. His undaunted courageous decision to remain with the stricken aircraft while displaying superlative piloting skills and exceptional situational awareness ensured the safety of a valuable national asset and precluded a probable loss of lives and property on ground.

For his act of exceptional gallantry and courage, Wing Commander Vernon Desmond Keane VM is awarded 'Shaurya Chakra'.

[Manish_P]

MiG 29 crash in Barmer

Pilot safe

No loss of life on ground as well

Best of a bad thing

[Rakesh]

Thank goodness the pilot is safe!

[VinodTK]

^^^^
MiG-29 fighter jet crashes near Barmer in Rajasthan

[Manish_P]

This incident seems to be a rare night time incident.

Probability of bird hit would be lower than day time flights

[wig]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/India/2- ... 69fc&ei=49

2 Indian Coast Guard pilots missing after helicopter makes emergency landing in Arabian Sea

An Indian Coast Guard helicopter with 4 aircrew onboard, during an operation reportedly was forced to make an emergency landing in the Arabian Sea off the Porbandar coast on Monday night. One crew has been recovered and search for the remaining three crew is in progress. Aircraft wreckage has been located

[raja.basharat]

--deleted by admin--

[chetak]

This incident seems to be a rare night time incident.

Probability of bird hit would be lower than day time flights

Manish ji,

some migratory bird species fly at night too

Just saying onlee, not suggesting a bird hit or even speculating about the probable cause

[Manish_P]

This incident seems to be a rare night time incident.

Probability of bird hit would be lower than day time flights

Manish ji,

some migratory bird species fly at night too

Just saying onlee, not suggesting a bird hit or even speculating about the probable cause

Noted sir. In general though they would be lesser as compared to the day time birds wouldn't they?

In this specific case the initial reports mention a critical failure. So looks like something failed in the machine

[chetak]

Manish ji,

some migratory bird species fly at night too

Just saying onlee, not suggesting a bird hit or even speculating about the probable cause

Noted sir. In general though they would be lesser as compared to the day time birds wouldn't they?

In this specific case the initial reports mention a critical failure. So looks like something failed in the machine

Manish ji,

This is not a regular feature but at times these night time flocks are relatively huge and cannot easily be spotted, unlike the day time flocks

The bunch of canadian geese that took down the airbus that ultimately landed safely in the Hudson river was a one off event

long range migratory birds often fly continuously and remain airborne for days on end with no rest

they are often to be found at relatively higher altitudes, and if lucky, some of these flocks find and ride airstreams going their way

transcontinental airliners sometimes do the same thing, plan their flights to ride these airstreams to significantly reduce their fuel burn

[Manish_P]

Thanks, Chetak ji. Learnt something new today.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1836429248212463768 ---> BREAKING: An Indian Navy MQ-9B Sea Guardian drone (one of 2 leased from the U.S. in 2020) has had a controlled ditching at sea off the Chennai coast.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1836429248212463768 ---> BREAKING: An Indian Navy MQ-9B Sea Guardian drone (one of 2 leased from the U.S. in 2020) has had a controlled ditching at sea off the Chennai coast.

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1836423702356926879 ---> I am sorry but the case for spending $3-4 billion on some 31 MQ-9Bs is making less and less sense with each passing moment.

https://x.com/nit_ayatana/status/1836429956651389388 ---> That's US $100 million. Counting the AH-64, which is on the mountain top, another 100 million. Our dream of becoming US is coming true.

https://x.com/ajitkdubey/status/1836430053795877275 ---> MQ-9B Predator flying with Indian Navy crashed and went down over sea. Ye Bharatiya Nau Sena ko zyada cost nahi karega, as it was only on lease. The vendor General Atomics was operating it and they were its owners.

[Rakesh]

^^^^

* MQ-9B: US $100 million

* AH-64 Apache: US $100 million

* Atmanirbhar Bharat: Priceless

There are some things money can't buy; for everything else, there's MasterCard

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ajitkdubey/status/1836430053795877275 ---> MQ-9B Predator flying with Indian Navy crashed and went down over sea. Ye Bharatiya Nau Sena ko zyada cost nahi karega, as it was only on lease. The vendor General Atomics was operating it and they were its owners.

US firm expected to replace crashed MQ-9B Predator drone for meeting Indian Navy ops needs
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 919201826/
19 Sept 2024

[Manish_P]

If it is phoren then it is a controlled ditching.

If it is desi then it is a crash

[chetak]

If it is phoren then it is a controlled ditching.

If it is desi then it is a crash

Manish ji,

most of the time, a crash is routinely described as a controlled flight into terrain (CFIT)

[Manish_P]

...
most of the time, a crash is routinely described as a controlled flight into terrain (CFIT)

Chetak sir, are you specifically referring to unmanned aerial vehicles?

Have heard several naval aviators referring to carrier landings as controlled crashes.

Added - official definition of CFIT - an unintentional collision with terrain (the ground, a mountain, a body of water, or an obstacle) while an aircraft is under positive control.

[chetak]

...
most of the time, a crash is routinely described as a controlled flight into terrain (CFIT)

Chetak sir, are you specifically referring to unmanned aerial vehicles?

Have heard several naval aviators referring to carrier landings as controlled crashes.

Added - official definition of CFIT - an unintentional collision with terrain (the ground, a mountain, a body of water, or an obstacle) while an aircraft is under positive control.

Manish ji,


what happens if a UAV or a manned aircraft hits a mountain side in bad weather or at night or whatever

By definition, that's also a CFIT ...

[Manish_P]

...

what happens if a UAV or a manned aircraft hits a mountain side in bad weather or at night or whatever

By definition, that's also a CFIT ...

Sir, i realised my mistake. I thought CFIT was intentional, as in the human pilot or the software would decide to ditch (for whatever reason), by focusing on the 'positive control' part. I missed the 'unintentional' part at the very beginning.

Thanks

[ramana]

Do we have a link to the Predator crash report that Manu Pubby says is available?
Apparently starter generator failed leading to battery not being charged.
About 86 crashes worldwide from various causes. Quite expensive at $100m a pop.

https://x.com/JaidevJamwal/status/18384 ... Dmyiw&s=19

[fanne]

Can the starter generator be disabled remotely?

[Rakesh]

Do we have a link to the Predator crash report that Manu Pubby says is available?
Apparently starter generator failed leading to battery not being charged.
About 86 crashes worldwide from various causes. Quite expensive at $100m a pop.

https://x.com/JaidevJamwal/status/18384 ... Dmyiw&s=19

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1838453205077794872 ---> MQ-9B crash: Old problem haunts drone, double generator failure led to loss of leased Indian Navy bird. Both generators failed on drone, leading to depletion of battery and a ditching at sea. Wreckage not traced yet.

MQ-9B Crash: Old problem haunts drone, double generator failed
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 608551.cms
23 Sept 2024

[Manish_P]

...
Wreckage not traced yet.
...

Are we or they (the US) trying to recover it? I don't know if the chinese have the tech to do a deep sea steal like the americans have... Isn't there a blow-up safety to prevent the tech from falling into enemy hands.

Alternately if the US does know the position of the drone (without us sharing it) then it means they can track it when they want

[chetak]

Do we have a link to the Predator crash report that Manu Pubby says is available?
Apparently starter generator failed leading to battery not being charged.
About 86 crashes worldwide from various causes. Quite expensive at $100m a pop.

https://x.com/JaidevJamwal/status/18384 ... Dmyiw&s=19

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1838453205077794872 ---> MQ-9B crash: Old problem haunts drone, double generator failure led to loss of leased Indian Navy bird. Both generators failed on drone, leading to depletion of battery and a ditching at sea. Wreckage not traced yet.

MQ-9B Crash: Old problem haunts drone, double generator failed
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 608551.cms
23 Sept 2024

Rakesh saar,

for the want of a nail ........

[Rakesh]

Rakesh saar,

for the want of a nail ........

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1838453205077794872 ---> MQ-9B crash: Old problem haunts drone, double generator failure led to loss of leased Indian Navy bird. Both generators failed on drone, leading to depletion of battery and a ditching at sea. Wreckage not traced yet.

MQ-9B Crash: Old problem haunts drone, double generator failed
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 608551.cms
23 Sept 2024

As per the article below, 86 MQ-9s have crashed to date. India will be spending $4 billion for 31 of these.

https://x.com/Prabinmen/status/1838442449099690086 --->

[Rakesh]

As per the article below, 86 MQ-9s have crashed to date. India will be spending $4 billion for 31 of these.

https://x.com/Prabinmen/status/1838442449099690086 --->

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1838446618754073044 ---> Preliminary report suggests “battery drain out after double generator failed.” If this was written by my student I would have asked him/her to rewrite the report.

If this is true, sequence should be:

1. Generator 1 failed
2. Redundancy generator triggered
3. Second generator failed
4. Battery used for sometime and then controlled ditched

How this can be a known problem? And if it is, shame on makers of those generators.