Eastern Europe/Ukraine

[Austin]

Hmm, growing your economy 20 times and 5 times as China and India have done would count as a huge win to me. Doesn't really back your claims up, especially since this has been fueled at least partly with Anglo-Saxon money and almost completely by Anglo-Saxon consumption.

No Favours there , if China and India grew x amount of time , this is also helped the MNC who grew x amount of times with profit generated xx amount of times.

There won't be any real growth at all buddy, without the ability of the west to consume and finance. So I hope your strategic analysis doesn't come to a pass.

The West simply prints money it has nothing to loose by keeping printing press going , Like they say West prints dollar and we have to Earn it. The World Economy has to move away from it as most of the issues we face is due to money printing.

[KrishnaK]

Hmm, growing your economy 20 times and 5 times as China and India have done would count as a huge win to me. Doesn't really back your claims up, especially since this has been fueled at least partly with Anglo-Saxon money and almost completely by Anglo-Saxon consumption.

No Favours there , if China and India grew x amount of time , this is also helped the MNC who grew x amount of times with profit generated xx amount of times.

The reason it works is it's a win win for both parties. Of course it's not a favour. Even if it were, we should not want that because that's not sustainable. Talk about stating the obvious.

The West simply prints money it has nothing to loose by keeping printing press going , Like they say West prints dollar and we have to Earn it.

Aaaah all that 30 trillion dollars created every year in the US and EU is just money rolling off the presses. Oh wait all that technology that you get butt hurt over being denied is all maya onlee. Why get so upset then

The World Economy has to move away from it as most of the issues we face is due to money printing.

Indian has benefited from participating in this global order. What issues ? Move away from it to what ? The bottom poorest in India are 20-30% of our population. That's nearly 400 million people. Those 400 million need their standard of living increased 10-20 times inside of a few decades. Can you tell me who's going to invest to raise their standard of living, while relatively well of people like you pass off bollocks as analysis ? Even if that investment is found, wtf is going to consume what they produce ? Russia and China ?

The only reason why the West survives today is because we have to pay for the majority of our oil in dollars. This forces most countries to export to the US and maintain a dollar reserve to purchase oil and industrialize. Therefore, there isn't really anything super duper about the West.

Western decline is inevitable.

Relatively so, yes. The west quite sees it coming and aren't too bothered by it either. Because they're the ones funding it for most part.

We should care about Russia because they are leading the charge with China to attack the US, not militarily, but through financial markets, proxy war, and in cyber space.

Russia's not leading the charge on anything. And china keeps selling to the US and investing all their dollars back in the US, because it remains the safest destination for investment. Those that actually know shit and have to invest vast sums of money seem to believe the US does a bit more to survive than just print dollars.

So blinding is your prejudice that you'll spin up the most fanciful of conspiracy theories to pander to it. I can't for the life of me understand somebody wanting their biggest customers to go down. Western consumption is the best thing in the world and we should do everything to keep it going. Including keeping good for nothing idiots like Russia and China from upsetting the apple cart.

[vijaykarthik]

NATO wants constructive ties with Russia: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... me=topNews

[vijaykarthik]

Why / when did this thread degenerate to a mud slinging match as opposed to links and stuff on Eastern Europe & Ukraine?

[hnair]

Good point.

RoyG, KrishnaK and Austin, please take any West vs Russia economic model discussions to Off-topic thread, please. This thread is for tracking or discussing current issues of the region.

[Philip]

Up to a dozen Ukraine officials dumped in wheelie bins
'Trash bucket challenge' spreads across Ukraine as activisits throw politicians into rubbish bins to 'punish corruption'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -bins.html

By Roland Oliphant, Kiev

07 Oct 2014
It’s a bad time to be a Ukrainian politician.
The war in the east refuses to end, despite a “ceasefire”. Winter is approaching, and with it all the worries of another “gas-war” with Russia. And with parliamentary elections just weeks away, pre-revolutionary MPs are getting nervous about hanging on to their jobs.
To make things worse, there is a growing chance of ending up in a wheelie bin.
Since early September up to a dozen MPs, city councillors and other officials accused of wrong doing have been hauled from their offices by masked gangs in what has become know as the “Trash Bucket Challenge.”

The perpetrators - often members of the radical right-wing group Right Sector - say the public humiliations are to punish the corruption and criminality that characterised the previous regime.

But critics warn the attacks are just one step away from mob justice and public lynchings.

“The main thing in our country now is that the criminals are all still there,” said Yury Mindiuk, the head of Right Sector’s central executive. “No one wants to implement the ideas of Maidan.”

Right Sector emerged as an alliance of far right groups during the revolution, and earned a fearsome reputation as one of the most militant elements in the street fighting that led to Mr Yanukovych’s overthrow. Since then some members of the group have fought in the war in eastern Ukraine, but they have struggled to find political relevance in post-revolutionary politics.

It was the group’s Odessa branch that came up with the idea last month, when they dumped Oleg Rudenko, a city insurance official accused of taking a £28,000 bribe, in a trash can.

The stunt hit a chord. Soon Right Sector groups across the country were doing the same thing to anyone from MPs with links to the previous regime through to local municipal officials accused of taking bribes.

On September 16 a mob grabbed and “binned” Vitaly Zhuravsky, an MP formerly of Mr Yanukovych’s now defunct Party of the Regions. On September 25 it was the turn of Viktor Pylypyshyn, another Party of the Regions man.

In both cases activists seemed most upset about their support for repressive package of laws Mr Yanukovych rushed through parliament in a doomed bid to crush the anti-government protests in December.

But it is not just MPs linked to Mr Yanukoych who are in danger. In the most recent incident on Right Sector’s website features a doctor from a municipal hospital in the small town of Terebolvya. The group says he was convicted of bribery three months ago.

Others have taken up the “trash bucket challenge.” Oleh Lyashko, a controversial MP who has earned notoriety for his DIY “arrests” of suspected separatists in the east of the country, frog-marched a municipal official in Kirovograd into a wheelie bin for “lying.”

The tensions underlying the practice go back to last winter’s revolution.

When protesters swept over the 18ft high walls of Viktor Yanukovych’s out of town residence after he fled on February 22, they found an estate half the size of Monaco replete with private zoo, classic car collection, and a now infamous mock-galleon restaurant moored on the river. The clubs at the private golf course were embossed with Mr Yanukovych’s initials.

It was a jaw-dropping demonstration of the scale and depth of the corruption that had angered so many protesters.

Seven months on, Mr Yanukovych is long gone, and the estate has been returned to public ownership.

But many feel the deep rooted political culture of personal enrichment and corruption it represents - and which the revolution was meant to put an end to - endures.

A so-called “lustration law,” which would subject national and local officials to screening for corruption of other wrong doing, was passed by the Ukrainian parliament in August. But no one has yet been subjected to the checks, let along lost their job under it.

To make matters worse, the Prosecutor General last week warned that the law is unconstitutional and violates international law.

As Mr Mindiuk puts it, “we wouldn’t have to do this if the authorities were doing their job: prosecute these people in a court of law.”

“Put them in jail, legally. Clean up this so-called establishment. Because we’re not ready to wait around until the children of the Party of the Regions grow up in the hope they’ll be better than their parents,” said Mr Mindiuk.

It is meant to be a political street theatre, a public humiliation rather than a lynching. But the stunts can get frighteningly out of hand.

Nestor Shufrych, another MP of Mr Yanukovych’s now disbanded Party of the Regions, ended up in hospital after his campaign stop in Odessa was interrupted by protesters.
Police and body guards managed to get the MP to his campaign bus before the mob could dump him in a bin. But a video shows him taking a nasty beating before he made his escape. He later said he received a concussion during the violence.

Mr Mindiuk later admitted the group had gone too far, and the incident prompted Arsen Avakov, the Interior Minister, issued a plea via his Facebook page for the radicals to desist.

“Just a couple more broken faces like Shufrich’s or lynchings like Pylypyshin, and Europe will turn away from our victorious revolution,” he said. “Don’t be marginal morons, follow stupid instincts and provoke crowds to mob justice,” he wrote.

That got short thrift from the radicals, however.

“Avakov is the Moron,” Mr Lyashko wrote in his reply, “for not understanding that people act in such a radical way because there is no law.”

“Today we’ll lustrate the Party of the Regions through the trash, and tomorrow we’ll throw Avakov on the landfill.”

Both Right Sector and Mr Lyashko revel in their respective reputations for direct action - and, indeed, violence. But public backing for their tactics appears to be lukewarm.

Although polling puts Mr Lyashko’s Radical party in second place at the up coming parliamentary elections on October 26, it is set to take little more than 10 percent of the vote.

Right Sector’s leader Dmytro Yarosh took less than 1 percent of the vote at the presidential election in June, and the group does not look likely to make gains.

[UlanBatori]

Wonder if a Technology Transfer Baksheesh deal can be struck with Ukraine/EU for purchasing and co-producing 100,000 of these Politician Prams in India.

[Shreeman]

Meanwhile,

In a veiled reference to Russia's widely claimed backing of separatist forces, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland demanded that foreign armed forces be pulled out of Ukraine.

and the state of peace reigns,

While fighting in much of eastern Ukraine has been calmed by a month-old truce, it rages unabated at the airport near Donetsk, turning a shiny symbol of the country's Western integration into a shattered mirror of its future prospects.

while Phillip holds out hope for sanity from the west,

The first European drones landed Monday in Ukraine and a top US envoy visited Kiev in an urgent bid to bolster its crumbling truce with pro-Russian fighters.

That is all.

[Sumeet]

Fall out of Ukraine issue: (Cross post from India-Russia thread)

Russia offers India stakes in Siberian oilfields- sources -- UK Reuters

Rosneft offers ONGC 10 pct stake in Vankor - sources

* Offers up to 49 pct stake in Yurubcheno-Tokhomskoye- sources

* Putin plans New Delhi visit in December

By Nidhi Verma

NEW DELHI, Oct 8 (Reuters) - Rosneft has offered stakes in its two east Siberian oilfields to India's Oil and Natural Gas Corp, two Indian sources with direct knowledge of the matter said, as the sanctions-hit Russian company looks beyond Western firms to develop its vast resources.

The sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States and Europe to punish Moscow for its incursion into Ukraine, have cut Rosneft's access to Western financing and technology.

Rosneft has offered an up to 49 percent stake in Yurubcheno-Tokhomskoye and 10 percent share in Vankor field to the state-run ONGC, said the source familiar with the discussions.

"They need money and want to hire partners. They want to demonstrate to the U.S. and Europe that there are partners available for them," said one of the sources.

ONGC would firm up its decision on participation in the two projects before the planned visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to Delhi in December, this source said, adding the two fields are in geologically challenging areas.

The European Union has imposed sanctions on Russia's finance, defence and energy sectors and has frozen the assets of some 140 Russian and Ukrainian individuals and companies over Moscow's role in Ukraine.

The sources declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Rosneft declined to comment.

Rosneft's chief Igor Sechin, a close ally of Putin, has been on the U.S. sanctions list since April. Rosneft itself was added to the list in July.

Production at Yurubcheno-Tokhomskoye will start in 2017. The field is to supply Asian markets via the East Siberia-Pacific Ocean pipeline and feed a yet-to-be-built petrochemical plant in Russia's Far East.

In a major about-turn, given the Kremlin's long resistance to allow its powerful neighbour access to such deposits, Putin last month said he welcomed the idea of China joining the prized Vankor field.

Vankor project is vital for Rosneft to meet its growing commitments to supply Asian markets, above all China.

Rosneft is preparing to more than double oil exports to China to over 1 million bpd, seeking to secure market share and billions of dollars in pre-payments. (Additional Reporting by Vladimir Soldatkin in MOSCOW, editing by William Hardy)

[vijaykarthik]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... icRSS20-sa

Interesting news. So, if there is evidence of an oxygen mask on a passenger, then as the article itself suggests, instant death becomes difficult. If that were the case, is it that a Buk hit it?

Closed space, bomblets, compression. Doesn't add up, does it? Ahem, ahem.

[Deans]

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dragon_f ... iginal.jpg

Recent map in English, giving a Battlefield update.

The Yellow and Green lines are places behind which all fighters and heavy artillery must withdraw. So far that's not
happened. (for e.g. the Western of the 2 Green lines is where Ukrainian artillery must withdraw to).
Both sides need to maintain the facade of a ceasefire, but small unit actions are continuing.

The Ukrainians pushed East of Debaltsevo (this forms a Ukrainian salient into rebel territory) and the Rebels are trying
to take it back. This is where most of the fighting currently is, as Debaltsevo is an important logistics hub.

Fighting around Donetsk airport (area between no's 1,2 & 4). In the Soviet days, the airport was the HQ of an Airborne
Division and it has a large no of underground bunkers, with hand to hand fighting for control of that complex. Its an important
Command & Communications facility for whoever controls it. Conflicting news on who controls the airport now.

News from rebels side is that Kharkov district may be the next to secede. 2 Ukrainian units there defected to the rebels.
Both sides are preparing for winter. Ukrainian convoys are being attacked by partisan units (which is easier because
vehicle routes are predictable, as units settle into ceasefire locations).

[Pratyush]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... icRSS20-sa

Interesting news. So, if there is evidence of an oxygen mask on a passenger, then as the article itself suggests, instant death becomes difficult. If that were the case, is it that a Buk hit it?

Closed space, bomblets, compression. Doesn't add up, does it? Ahem, ahem.

When a large aircraft is hit, the cabin my depressurize and the life support systems will deploy automatically. The aircraft will continue to fly for some time as well.

Having said so, an average Abdul will not be able to put on the mask if the aircraft is in an out of control dive. As the dangling mask will be all over the place and the G forces will make movement difficult for the passengers.

But what do I know. This could be well be the work of Buk.

[vijaykarthik]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... UH20141010

Wonder what really happened on those days.

[vijaykarthik]

From NW:

Ukraine: President Poroshenko accepted Defense Minister Valeriy Heletey's resignation request. The president announced that it was time to replace the leadership of the Defense Ministry. Later on the 13th, he nominated the head of the National Guard, Stepan Poltorak, as the new Minister of Defense.

According to Ukrainian press analysis, the president is convinced that the decision to replace the head of the Defense Ministry and several other personnel decisions, in particular those to dismiss the leadership of the State Border Service and to set up the Intelligence Committee, to be headed by Ihor Smeshko, will strengthen the security agencies and increase Ukraine's defensive capability.

Comment: Heletey is the scapegoat for the multiple military setbacks during the summer that led to Ukraine's agreement to a ceasefire and to greater autonomy for the two pro-Russian regions in the southeast. Heletey took office as Defense Minister on 3 July.

Ukrainian sources claim that the National Guard is a reserve force that is subordinate to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The Kyiv regime revived the forces as internal troops because of the failings of the army. Its conscript-filled units were built around right-wing paramilitary groups, such as Right Sector and Svoboda. On its face, Poltorak's appointment is likely to send a message of right-wing intolerance to the pro-Russian Ukrainians.

[UlanBatori]

Australian PM, after glorious search for MH370, now plans to lose the rest of his underwear

[member_20317]

Australian PM, after glorious search for MH370, now plans to lose the rest of his underwear

Australian PM Tony Abbott vowed to "shirt-front" Vladimir Putin over the MH17 disaster.
"Shirt-fronting" is a term used in Australian rules football, referring to an aggressive, front-on physical challenge.
Abbott used the term Monday when speaking to reporters about the Russian President's attendance at the G20 Leaders' Summit, to be held in Brisbane next month.
Abbott told reporters: "Look, I'm going to shirt-front Mr Putin... you bet I am. I am going to be saying to Mr Putin, Australians were murdered. They were murdered by Russian-backed rebels using Russian-supplied equipment."

Putin ka munh tod jawab



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9ZQ5doRi8

[UlanBatori]

Fun guy to chat with, isn't he? The pin-drop silence after that answer says it all.

[pankajs]

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/Clashes-erupt-outside-Ukraines-parliament-in-Kiev/articleshow/44815492.cms

Clashes erupt outside Ukraine's parliament in Kiev

KIEV: Clashes broke out today between demonstrators and police in front of Ukraine's parliament in Kiev as deputies inside repeatedly voted down proposals to recognise a contentious World War II-era Ukrainian partisan group as national heroes.

Thousands of Svoboda nationalist party supporters rallied earlier in the capital in celebration of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose struggle for independence for Ukraine was tainted by its collaboration with the Nazis.

Later, masked men attacked and threw smoke grenades at lines of police outside parliament as lawmakers met inside. The Interior Ministry said 36 people were detained by police. Svoboda said its members were not responsible for the unrest, which police said was orchestrated by a small group of people at the rally.

[Austin]

PM Medvedev Interview to CNBC

Russia/US Relations Set Back | Medvedev Exclusive | CNBC International



EU Risky for Ukraine | Medvedev Exclusive | CNBC International

[Singha]

the ukraine insurgent army which kind of is the godparent of right sector/azov type militias was responsible for killing around 100,000 polish people in one corner of ukraine alone.
they are no less purist than hitler and his ubermensch aryan theories.

[UlanBatori]

Xtra! Xtra! Putin to Collapse and Surrender Any Day Now!

This must be by the great-grand-brats of those who were supplying Adolf H. with his breakfast newspaper during the Battle of Stalingrad.

[Austin]

Medvedev: Obama 'Mentally Unstable' for Calling Russia No. 2 Foe

[Austin]

Full Transcript of Interview with PM Medvedev , he had good relation with Obama but now the gloves are off

Dmitry Medvedev’s interview with CNBC

[vijaykarthik]

Putin ka munh tod jawab



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9ZQ5doRi8

OMG. Just seeing it now.

Any idea when this happened?

[Austin]

Interview with Stephen Cohen is on Sophie&Co today.

NATO’s games with Ukraine bring world to 5 minutes before nuclear midnight - Stephen Cohen

http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/194784-rus ... nsion-war/

[vijaykarthik]

Its easy to get frustrated with Pyootin. Sometimes, we have to give it to that guy. What an amazing character!

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-N ... ela-Merkel

"Putin arrived late to a dinner for more than 50 world leaders. His pre-dinner meeting with the German chancellor, which he missed entirely, was rescheduled."

[RSoami]

We are truly into the next cold war. Putin wont back down. and why should he.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e21141789/

And the Russian German bonhomie of the last decade is vanishing too with Merkel`s `blame Putin` theatricals. Ukraine`s goose is truly ad completely cooked. There will be no Russian gas for them this winter.

[vijaykarthik]

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/10/17/2 ... n-endgame/

[Deans]

Ukrainian military casualties estimated at 6500+ KIA and 12000 MIA / POW.

This is based on 2 separate estimates by Ukrainian groups (since Chocolate is not releasing full casualty figures). One is based on info from leaked docs which indicate 20,000 KIA & WIA (normal Dead:Wounded ratio suggests 6500 is a fair estimate for KIA) and the other estimate is
based on approx 6900 bodies of soldiers (or their remains) being buried in 5 different sites. Ukraine is trying to downplay total deaths so a lot have been listed as missing or deserter (that way ex gratia payments are minimised).

Official Ukrainian army casualties (where the body is identified) were 1500, before the defeats in Sept. However, the bulk of casualties were of militia units which do not make it to the official casualty lists. Ukrainian soldiers also do not have dog tags, which makes identification difficult, especially when at the receiving end of a Grad strike.

Rebels say they have 5000 POW, so the remaining 7000 of the MIA+POW could also be KIA.
That's a very large no of casualties in a 21st century war.

[Deans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgsaWK4UIWA

Video from rebel TV - Captured Ukrainian tanks being repaired - ironically at a captured factory belonging to a Ukrainian Oligarch.

And this one is captured 152mm arty being test fired after repair. The rebels are now in Winter clothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PseRO5_ykK0

[Philip]

‘Difficult, full of disagreements’: No breakthrough in Milan talks on Ukraine crisis
Published time: October 17, 2014
http://rt.com/news/196752-putin-ukraine ... o-meeting/

The talks on the Ukrainian crisis, where the presidents of Russia and Ukraine have met with their European counterparts, have resulted in “no breakthrough,” according to Chancellor Merkel, but were still labeled “positive” by most participants.

The presidents of Russia and Ukraine met on Friday morning in Milan on the sidelines of the summit of Asian and European leaders in Italy. They were joined by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Francois Hollande, British Prime Minister David Cameron and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso.

"I cannot see a breakthrough here at all so far," Merkel said after the meeting, according to Reuters.

"We will continue to talk,” she added. “There was progress on some details, but the main issue is continued violations of the territorial integrity of Ukraine."

A political solution to the conflict in Ukraine has not yet been found, President of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy commented on the talks and urged both Russia and Ukraine to follow through on the peace agreement reached in Minsk, Belarus at the beginning of September.

“What we agreed was the protocol of Minsk on the ceasefire, and the peace plan is of crucial importance,” Rompuy said. “We have to implement this. This would guarantee again a future for Ukraine. So implementation, implementation, implementation — those are the key words.”

Vladimir Putin has so far been laconic in his assessment of the talks’ outcome.

"It was good, it was positive," the smiling president told reporters after the event, Reuters reported.

It was Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, who eventually elaborated on the negotiations, describing them as “difficult” ones.

“The negotiations are really difficult, full of disagreements, full of misunderstandings,” Peskov said. “Nevertheless they are still taking place. There’s an exchange of opinions.”

“The participants have discussed in detail the implementation of the Minsk agreements,” Peskov said.

“Unfortunately, some of the breakfast participants demonstrated their complete reluctance to understand the real situation in the southeast of Ukraine.”

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko complained to Austria's chancellor Werner Faymann later in the day, that the morning talks did not leave him hopeful about achieving a breakthrough in the crisis.

"Unfortunately, I am not very optimistic," Reuters cited Poroshenko as saying.

(L to R) France's President Francois Hollande, Russia's President Vladimir Putin, Italy's Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko and German Chancellor Angela Merkel sit during a meeting on the sidelines of a Europe-Asia summit (ASEM) in Milan October 17, 2014. (Reuters/Daniel Dal Zennaro)

(L to R) France's President Francois Hollande, Russia's President Vladimir Putin, Italy's Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko and German Chancellor Angela Merkel sit during a meeting on the sidelines of a Europe-Asia summit (ASEM) in Milan October 17, 2014. (Reuters/Daniel Dal Zennaro)

Other European leaders, who participated in the talks, seemed to be more encouraged by their outcome. "Positive” has been the most frequently used definition.

Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, who hosted the meeting said he was “really positive” after it, although he also acknowledged "a lot of differences" remained.

"It was a very positive meeting," said British Prime Minister David Cameron, according to AFP. "Vladimir Putin said very clearly that he doesn't want a frozen conflict and he doesn't want a divided Ukraine."

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko had one more meeting later in the day trying to resolve the crisis. This time they were only accompanied by German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko had one more meeting later in the day in an effort to resolve the crisis.

Putin was once again concise, commenting on the outcome.

“The results of the talks are good,” he told journalists when he left the negotiations room, TASS reported.

Petro Poroshenko announced that the meeting had resulted in a preliminary agreement on Russian gas supplies to Ukraine.

[Austin]

Putin: U.S. attitude to Russia “antagonistic”

[RSoami]

http://rt.com/business/196856-russia-uk ... as-crisis/

So, no gas till Ukraine pays up $4.5 billion. Since Ukraine has no money, this has to be paid by Europe and America.
Also Russia has agreed to sell Gas to Ukraine for $385 during the winter period. It sells gas to Europe for $400. And this money which will also amount to billions will have to be paid by EU and Washington geniuses too.
Apply sanctions to damage the Russian economy and pay in cash.

[Philip]

[Austin]

http://rt.com/business/196856-russia-uk ... as-crisis/

So, no gas till Ukraine pays up $4.5 billion. Since Ukraine has no money, this has to be paid by Europe and America.
Also Russia has agreed to sell Gas to Ukraine for $385 during the winter period. It sells gas to Europe for $400. And this money which will also amount to billions will have to be paid by EU and Washington geniuses too.
Apply sanctions to damage the Russian economy and pay in cash.

Ukraine has not paid for Russian Gas since January so Russia has opted for pre-payment method which means get as much as you pay for no credit just cash.

$385 is the same price Europe pays to Russia.

Ukraine was mentioning yesterday Europe promised them $30 billion .....would be interesing of West pays that money.......knowing well most would get looted any ways.

[Aditya_V]

Can't all NATO countries put a 1% cess on Income tax for funding Ukrainian gas? simple no?

[chanakyaa]

Ukraine was mentioning yesterday Europe promised them $30 billion .....would be interesing of West pays that money.......knowing well most would get looted any ways.

In reality, isn't the holders of thollar and euro are the one paying in the form of their devalued holdings (including India)? They can print all the thollars and euros the world needs. It simply increases the number in the computer. In the meantime, oil prices are artificially reduced with the help of the house of Saud to hurt the Russians and give a shot of QE to the world economies.

Russia can withstand lower oil prices but not for very long

Russia does not face an immediate threat from the sharp fall in oil prices over recent months. While the economy is heavily dependent on oil, the country’s accumulated reserves and the floating rouble will mitigate the shock, and Russia should be able to withstand levels of $80 to $90 a barrel for about two years. But in the longer term, persistently low prices – reinforced by the pressure imposed by western sanctions – could pose an existential challenge to Vladimir Putin’s regime.

The 25 per cent drop in the oil price over the past three months did come as a shock to the Russian government. The latest draft of the 2015-17 budget assumes a price of $100 a barrel (and average annual gross domestic product growth of 2.6 per cent). Even before the oil price shift, the government planned to deplete its Reserve Fund from 5 per cent of GDP to 3 per cent by the end of 2017, in order to pay for the deficit foreseen in each of the next three years. Much of Russia’s other sovereign fund, the National Welfare Fund, has already been committed to infrastructure and providing support to the banks and companies sanctioned by the west.....

[Austin]

Poland on the forefront of attack on Russia considering it "fair" that Russia supply free Gas to Ukraine got a shock when Ukraine asked from it free coal

On Thursday, Poland’s Deputy Prime Minister Janusz Pehochinsky expressed disappointment that Ukraine hasn’t yet paid for 100,000 tons of Polish coal.

[Austin]

German Intelligence claims Seperatist stole BUK from Ukraine Inventory and shot down MH-17

German Intelligence Claims Pro-Russian Separatists Downed MH17

What the puzzling part is how you can steal and fire a complicated system like BUK without any training etc unless Ukraine crew defected or Russian Supplied one.

[Shreeman]

For Phillip: the ceasing of the firing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT4RhTig_oM