Bharat Rakshak

People like vina saar will become a dinosaur, when driver less cars will rule in another decade or so. As someone on a talk show commented, well we may not even need to buy a car, just dial some number, the car just shows up from some local parking lot and you just hop in go to your destination and the car returns to the closest lot. So much for the driving experience. That will be the domain of a few old fogeys like vina very soon.

^^^
I can't wait for that day. Don't know what the hold up is. I'd buy one in a heart beat. AFAIK it can be done with present technology relatively easily. Some city needs to volunteer to be the test case. Maybe Austin one the Google Fiber thing is all rolled out.

Aditya_V wrote: Waah My Ford ecosport delivery is getting pushed and pushed, I have paid all the Money and given all docs, yet dealer says cannot get it registered and delivered tomorrow, family says Friday and Saturday are bad days. I need to wait till next Sunday/Monday.

we are also getting ours either this weekend or next weekend. are you buying insurance on your own or from them? I feel their insurance is highly overpriced so going on our own.

its automatic ofcourse . my wife considers it her midlife crisis vehicle and is paying 50% of the tab. she is even registering it in her name. I lost the battle for white colour and its going to be red.

we got a price of 1.5 for our 10yr old santro xing at with 68,000km. no cosmetic or functional defects but the engine/trans has not been delivering smooth power lately. sometimes runs well, sometimes struggles esp on uphills and engine knocking. hyundai workshop unable to fix the issue even after a good engine cleaning. I tried various theories from tightening the fuel cap, to changing the plate under the transmission, engine decarborizing....did not work...so gave up my quest to retain and drive it like a makhichoos for another 5 yrs

vina wrote:

Bade wrote:It is raining automatic cars in the low-end segment.
http://auto.ndtv.com/news/cheapest-auto ... =home-auto

Pah.. All for Wimps and Wimmins and AmirKhan returned types.

Then how come you are not driving one, O AmirKhan returned one? For your Bengaluru stop and go traffic, automatic is much better than a stick shift. And anyways you mostly don't have direct control over your car anymore in the new cars so driving a stick shift is placebo at best.

Singha wrote: we got a price of 1.5 for our 10yr old santro xing at with 68,000km. no cosmetic or functional defects but the engine/trans has not been delivering smooth power lately. sometimes runs well, sometimes struggles esp on uphills and engine knocking. hyundai workshop unable to fix the issue even after a good engine cleaning. I tried various theories from tightening the fuel cap, to changing the plate under the transmission, engine decarborizing....did not work...so gave up my quest to retain and drive it like a makhichoos for another 5 yrs

Glad you got rid of it. Smaller vehicles are unsafer in this dog eat dog roadspace that is modern India.

Suraj wrote: This one. Looks the same, just not literally the same VIN.

Nice I think we have 3-4 in KB who drive this.

nachiket wrote:RB, when you were hunting for a new car and ogling at Japani and Oiro PYT's like IS and 3-series, did you consider the three all-american beauties - Mustang, Challenger, Camaro - as possible alternatives?

I have driven the Mustang and Camaro Z28 (not the current generation, the previous one) before many times plus my BIL has a fully loaded Charger. Even though I like them, they don't appeal to me as much in terms of owning them. It might have to do with a mental block against Khan quality of cars and their overmuscled Khan SF type retro look.

Then how come you are not driving one, O AmirKhan returned one? For your Bengaluru stop and go traffic, automatic is much better than a stick shift. And anyways you mostly don't have direct control over your car anymore in the new cars so driving a stick shift is placebo at best.

Well, I don't drive to work. I get chauffeured in Rs 1.5cr vehicle with liveried driver which has Euro IV engine , with 350hp and a mountain of torque on tap,auto transmission. I just relax in YeaCee comfort , read the news paper, sometimes open the laptop and put in the USB wireless dongle, do baboogiri and get dropped off at the doorstep. I hope to graduate soon within the next year or so to a Rs 6cr vehicle with dedicated lanes and priority over traffic and commute timed to the second and that vehicle is already two steps ahead of any Google Shoogle with the ability of the vehicle to run driverless totally.

Cant beat that. I do my driving only on weekends and while taking SHQ and the kids out. Commute is a strict no no.

vina mullah is traveling Travolta style.

Singha wrote:

Aditya_V wrote: Waah My Ford ecosport delivery is getting pushed and pushed, I have paid all the Money and given all docs, yet dealer says cannot get it registered and delivered tomorrow, family says Friday and Saturday are bad days. I need to wait till next Sunday/Monday.

we are also getting ours either this weekend or next weekend. are you buying insurance on your own or from them? I feel their insurance is highly overpriced so going on our own.

its automatic ofcourse . my wife considers it her midlife crisis vehicle and is paying 50% of the tab. she is even registering it in her name. I lost the battle for white colour and its going to be red.

we got a price of 1.5 for our 10yr old santro xing at with 68,000km. no cosmetic or functional defects but the engine/trans has not been delivering smooth power lately. sometimes runs well, sometimes struggles esp on uphills and engine knocking. hyundai workshop unable to fix the issue even after a good engine cleaning. I tried various theories from tightening the fuel cap, to changing the plate under the transmission, engine decarborizing....did not work...so gave up my quest to retain and drive it like a makhichoos for another 5 yrs

I am buying Insurance from them , costing a 3K more but I am fine with it, My 59K KM 7.5 year Hyundai Accent also sold for 1.5 lacs, but then prices of all cars including 2nd hand is more expensive in Bengaluru (KN taxes). The Accent was in good condition but was due for 60K service where gear oil needs to be changed, battery had not been changed for 5 plus years and there was a slight noise from a/c, understand comes from some ball bearings inside which need to taken out and cleaned . Apart from that tyres were 14K old, both disc brake pads and brake shoe had been replaced less than a year before.

Me being an environmentally conscious and wife having Honda Brio automatic I have opted for a smoke grey low carbon dioxide emitting 3 cyl 999cc petrol engine.

So Singha ji, next time you drive to Conoor will it be the ecosport or civic?

ha ha...ecosport is the new munna in my garage. my first trip is going to be horsely hills on the Seemandhra border. last weekend we went to another place across the border called Lepakshi....vijaynagara era Veerbhadraswamy shaivite temple and a gigantic monolithic nandi as big as a house. north of devanhalli the road to Hyd becomes very rolling with long ups and downs but clean, unpopulated and butter smooth.
only in one place along the 100km stretch someone had thrown a lot of flowers from some temple onto the roadside from a overpass.
there was a AP tourism Haritha hotel where the road left the NH for lepakshi....chicken biryani, thali meals, thums up, chicken65 was very good.

I had been putting off trip to wayanad side for fear of ripping the keel out of my civic galleon on the reefs. now its a open road.

kids and wife are very excited. son likes the x-country sf type jeepy things and wife had a dream of someday owning a honda CR-V but since it cost way too much , is settling for poor mans CRV.

acura MDX - poor mans land cruiser
CRV - poor mans acura MDX
ecosport - poor mans CRV

so we are firmly at 3rd world level

Raja Bose wrote:vina mullah is traveling Travolta style.

He is most probably talking about the dreaded red Volvo bus driven by most careless drivers on Bangalore's roads.

GD you bought the Mars red colour ? Fit those steel rods in front of your bumpers so that rowdies on 2 wheelers do not come too close to your vehicle.

negi wrote:

Raja Bose wrote:vina mullah is traveling Travolta style.

He is most probably talking about the dreaded red Volvo bus driven by most careless drivers on Bangalore's roads.

Yes, thats why I said he is traveling Travolta style. The thing is, will his 6cr vahan have female PYTs as drivers like Dilli?

Raja Bose wrote: I have driven the Mustang and Camaro Z28 (not the current generation, the previous one) before many times plus my BIL has a fully loaded Charger. Even though I like them, they don't appeal to me as much in terms of owning them. It might have to do with a mental block against Khan quality of cars and their overmuscled Khan SF type retro look.

They have really small windshields and you cant see through them much.

Mustangs are better in this aspect.

my wife is more than enough to drive a danda up the rear of any miscreant.

I can relax, sip cold beer, read books, run...just be myself. tired of the rat race...I hope and pray she earns more than me as soon as possible so I can lead the life of a semi-retired intellectual of independent means...a sort of poor man's dilli billi

The bull bars compromise on the crumple zones, pedestrian unfriendly.

Singha saar, Is it with one with the ecoboost engine like Aditya V.?

no its 1.5 petrol.

Sridhar K wrote:The bull bars compromise on the crumple zones, pedestrian unfriendly.

THose crumple zones are over rated people who make cars for India just fit airbags and ABS in high end versions , destructive tests are not conducted to the level required for analysis of crumple zones (in a recent survey most of the Indian cars failed safety tests including the ones made by VW and Ford). For city conditions the bars deter others from coming too close to your vehicle so in a way it is good , as for pedestrians a good driver never goes too close to them and at high speed bar won't matter.

Crumple zones are not over rated negi saar. They are deadly serious design requirement.

Bull bars will definitely increase the damage to car occupants. Esp. in secondary collisions. Just a couple of months ago Minister Munde was killed in an eminently survivable accident. India should get away from this common sense nostrum type way of thinking. Crumple zones are serious stuff and India folk should flame throw at the car manufacturers till they get it right. While at it, Even in 20 kmph collisions seat belts should be worn but everyone in India takes it too lightly.

^ I said they are overrated because vehicle chasis for Indian markets do not have them at least not the ones made for our budget market ; If same kind of safety norms are used in India then cars will become even more expensive . Why do you think Airbags and ABS are not a compulsory piece of equipment in India ?

@Negi
Theo saar is spot on. The Indian Ford and the VW that failed the crash testing were the entry variant without air bags and even then those two cars scored higher on structural integrity tests than i10, Alto and the Nano. This prompted VW to launch all their polos with airbags.

Agree with you that Indian version of the same cars are compromized to a degree with the manufacturers cutting corners due to lacksaidal laws here. Even then, the Indian Swift, Dzire, Polo, Figo, Punto have a better structural integrity and crumble zones.

My friend survived a frontal collision on his top end ZDI by a lorry. The car took the brunt. Similar example of a tbhp member's father Dzire surviving unscathed on an head on collision with an old generation accent in Gujarat. All of accent passenger died on the spot. There is another case of Punto near my home where the car was a total write off saving the driver despite a brutal sandwich between two lorries. Another friend of mine was saved by the crumple zone on his camry. Looking at the car after the accident, it was clear that he would have lost his leg if not for the crumple zone.

Negi saar, I’m having a hard time going from crumple zones may be expensive to it is over rated.
AFAIK all Hyundai India cars have crumple zones. Crumple zones are relatively cheap to equip. A majority of Hyundai cars are exported to EU as well so obviously held to those standards.

WRT ABS & Airbags, side airbag would have definitely saved Munde. Even a proper crumple zone on either car would have. Cost to nation is higher from not having this IMHO….

Theo saar. what was surprising was that Indian i10 failed the structural integrity test considering that it was exported. My distant cousin who worked for Maruti mentioned that for the Indian versions are compromised to a degree on the safety aspect while the export versions are better even if produced from the same factory. Having said that, car models that are exported/designed for global use generally have better designed from a safety point of view. Hence despite the cutting corners, they are still better off than old vehicles from the globe that are dumped on India (Alto, Etios/Liva, Innovas etc. ). My point is that if you are picking up a top end car that has a global foot print, there is still some integrity left which we should not be fouling. For the rest of the junks like Balero, Scoripio, Innovas etc. crumple zones may be overrated.

For Ecosport, I would still recommend not to add a bull par while it hardly matters for a etios and the ilk.

do doors have crumple zones? my civic was hit powerfully from the left first on the front door, then the rear door by a wayward biker when I was taking a right turn....both doors took considerable dents and scratches but I did not even feel a jolt inside.

Sridhar saar, that is sad to hear that manufacturers dumb down vehicles for India market.

Crumple zones & air bag/compartment do different things. One must remember that the structural integrity test tests for injuries not fatalities. A crumple zone prevents fatalities up to certain speeds while compartment integrity/airbags reduce injuries. With a crumple zone accidents that should have killed you will leave you alive. Sure you may lose a leg or suffer cuts bruises broken bones but you would live to tell the tale. I don't think there is any situation where it is over rated. Still you need all the pieces to make it work.

WRT the i10, compartment integrity and airbags are needed to go with the crumple zone. Without a crumple zone compartment integrity and airbags will be useless.

That said nothing will save you if you run into a cement truck at 120 kmph as some of our herrows have been doing recently.

should be actually modular design than crumple zone. the distance between the driver and the impacter is so close that there is hardly any distance + time available for crumpling. a beam that directs force down is ideal /jmt

The net forces at play have to be kept in the same plane, or else the vehicle can become air-borne.

an oval door perhaps, with inner frames pushing and jolting the shocks.

good cars have measures to prevent intrusion into the passenger compartment esp the dashboard and foot pedal area.

I have seen a film where a cheap car had significant intrusion into foot area in a head on test. then a big Merc600 took the impact with zero intrusion into pax compartment.

VW equips it's entry segment cars with airbags that is why they claim that they make the safest hatchback in India , having said that they too failed the tests . Just equipping a car with airbag means nothing if it does not inflate under required conditions and at correct instant . Equipping a car with an airbag vs one which actually works are two different things . People do not die because they put a bar in front of their SUV they die because they are careless no car is going to save a person if he/she is rash . There are enough BMW and imported car crashes in India where no passenger survives last week one 3 series actually broke into two when it collided against a tree and all the occupants died except the driver was in the ICU . Safety features work only when one is driving under speed limit not beyond 3 digit figures.

negi wrote: People do not die because they put a bar in front of their SUV they die because they are careless no car is going to save a person if he/she is rash . There are enough BMW and imported car crashes in India where no passenger survives last week one 3 series actually broke into two when it collided against a tree and all the occupants died except the driver was in the ICU . Safety features work only when one is driving under speed limit not beyond 3 digit figures.

That is an funny statement. Most state (and even national)highways in India don't have central dividers. If someone coming from the opposite direction loses control, you can end up in a head-on collision without any fault of your own. Even on an access controlled expressway you can get into a crash just because you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is the safety features on the car that will determine the extent of your injuries, no matter who is responsible for the crash.

Singha wrote:do doors have crumple zones? my civic was hit powerfully from the left first on the front door, then the rear door by a wayward biker when I was taking a right turn....both doors took considerable dents and scratches but I did not even feel a jolt inside.

Thats an important issue you mention Side Impact and Munde's death is mentioned.

1) One of the reasons you will see Japanese, Korean car makers in India have better mileage and pick up, is that they tend to keep their Indian models extremely light weight. I believe the main saving is the Bonnet lid, Boot lid and the Doors as these are easy to customize with tinkering with the rest of the tooling manufacturing process for a car.

2) The City sold in India unlike the Civic is that a, thinner tyres and lack of steel beam in the doors to protect from side impact.

3) The main reason I believe for Munde's death apart from wearing seat belt, curtain airbags was the lack of steel beam and strong doors to protect the SX4 from a side impact. I think Ford, GM, VW have these but Honda, Maruti, Hyundai, Toyota seem to keep these only for thier above 10 lacs ex showroom models. Even an otherwise sturdy car like Renault Duster seems to lack too much side protection with lightweight doors while the rest of the car seems built to its international standards. Thats how we get a 4.5 meter car like CIAZ without the use of exotic steels or carbon fibre to weigh just 1010 KG.

But I guess most Indians are willing to make that compromise, the reason why some car doors are heavier than others is not sheet metal but the presence of steel beam, some manufactures use stuff like Boron steel beams to protect the passenger. I don't like GM's cars but I think the Chevy Cruze. Toyota Coralla but Totyota Etios again is lightly built.

But then again Honda, Toyota, Hyundai did not find success in the Indian market till they started following Maruti's VFM strategies, The Indian buyer has probably discounted death from side impact using the laws of probability while making their buying decision.

negi wrote:VW equips it's entry segment cars with airbags that is why they claim that they make the safest hatchback in India , having said that they too failed the tests . Just equipping a car with airbag means nothing if it does not inflate under required conditions and at correct instant . Equipping a car with an airbag vs one which actually works are two different things . People do not die because they put a bar in front of their SUV they die because they are careless no car is going to save a person if he/she is rash . There are enough BMW and imported car crashes in India where no passenger survives last week one 3 series actually broke into two when it collided against a tree and all the occupants died except the driver was in the ICU . Safety features work only when one is driving under speed limit not beyond 3 digit figures.

I have driven and sat in my neighbours BMW 320D, the main difference seems to be in comparison to international model is that in India the 3 series is a chauffeur driven car compared to a drivers car world wide, BMW in India seems to have lengthened the wheelbase by around 6 Inches to 1 foot behind the driver. I noticed this as kind of odd in the latter have of the chassis is fitted, I believe there is a structural compromise in Indian 3 series due to giving the premium of rear seat space.

AFAIK all Hyundai India cars have crumple zones. Crumple zones are relatively cheap to equip. A majority of Hyundai cars are exported to EU as well so obviously held to those standards.

Hyundai India cars are the pits in terms of safety. Hyundai makes basically 2 safety level cars out of the SAME assembly line in India. The one "For India" spec and the other for export.

The for India spec cars are seriously compromised structurally. They are around 100 to 150 kgs lighter than the export variants and while that increases fuel economy, it seriously compromises crash safety. All Hyundai export models which score well in Euro NCAP, the same India spec models score miserably.

Guess that they just take a lot of structural reinforcements out of the front and sides /dont bother fitting it in.

The only ones who have the same basic structural specs as global models tend to be VW, Fiat, Honda in the mass market. The rest are all junk (okay the newer Maruti common global models Swift, etc are okay). Toyota (despite the massive promotions on rrrNDTV) is a dog, especially their terrible Etios line. No wonder that rubbish flopped in India. I wouldn't buy the Brio either. But the global models like Jazz, City etc should be fine.

no its 1.5 petrol.

Yes I know. But I do think you probably should have gone for the Polo 1.2 GT Tsi. That is one sweet engine and transmission (even if for wimps,wimmins and amirkhans) and is a seriously hot hatch and lot more fun to drive. It is a toss up, I can see why you would go for the ecosport though.

If only the Renualt Duster with its new 4*4 had better interiors at the same price, it would be worth getting. It's ergonomics and interiors are a major turn off.

RB Mullah of course would still insist on his Lesbaru BRZ!

I can't believe they named a car Duster! What next - Smokey or Oily or Explosive...

^ Polo is strictly a couple car (I have one) , it can seat 4 alright but it is not for someone with 2 kids . Polo TDI/TSI with DSG are good for enthusiasts who want a DSG equipped car within INR 10 lakhs but DSG has serious reliability issues (read up TeamBHP about Skoda Laura's DSG issues , just repairs can set you back by INR 50k or even 1 lakh) . Ecosport 1.5AT is a perfect VFM vehicle and an allrounder for Indian conditions it will not guzzle gas like Fortuners or Pajeros and will still boss over our roads .

Negi- The Ecosport AT is also a 6 speed DSG, however, I don't think there have been any reliability issues with the Ford Fiesta 2011 petrol DSG or the Ecosport AT DSG.

Meanwhile my ES 3cyl is registered but due to family pressure, apparently today and tomorrow Astami and Nuvami are not good days so I have to wait till Monday to take delivery and do my fuel efficient drives.

If you mean the 1.5at it comes with pretty much all accessories . Ford accessories if u want extra are very costly here.
Price otr is not so vfm at 11.2 without insurance which is another .25
Road tax is massive here for the pitiful roads the bbmp dishes out...nhai roads in all directions are so much better.
Rest all mt versions are cheaper. Cheapest model otr might be 10ish.

Trunk is small so back seat room is good. My kids are growing and I am bored of hatches except jazz type chi chi.
But cough cough ground clearance. Hope relaunched jazz takes it up to raise gc....in 6 yrs my civic will reach ten will likely go fr a big hatch than sedan then. Given the stupid roads all I do is sweat and shit bricks in traffic here.

I belive the base Ambite Petrol 1.5 be around 8-8.5 Lac OTR in Bengaluru where all cars atleast 10-12% more expensive than Delhi. MH rivals KN is taxes. Why do the fat cats in Delhi and NCR get vehicles, petrol, diesel while folks in rural MH and KN fork out so much?