AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 18 Feb 2014 21:38

request:please go slow on emoticons.

Also,while we non-telugus understand the pain of andhra people,their loss and sense of loss,their fears and apprehensions,it is wrong to attribute ill-feelings to us.We have no axe to grind in the dispute.But for us,telengana people too are one of us,just as andhra people are one of us.We have little to chose between the sentiments of one over the other.

From a political view,mistakes were made by more than one party.And andhra people will rise again given their human and natural resources.And division of bigger states will continue in next BJP govt.This is not an exceptional event as some feel in the heat of the movement.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:51

vera_k wrote:I have no opinion on whether the division is good or bad, but the blackout of the TV proceeding means there is a cover up underway.

Can the proceedings be challenged on these grounds in the Supreme Court?

I agree. The name of the game is to preserve Congress rule and they used their proxies within all the parties to do it.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 18 Feb 2014 21:55

Svenkat avargal,
Only there is little sentiment required to differentiate a split done cleanly after due consideration and consultations with bonafide intentions from one bulldozed onto an unrepresented people behind closed doors based on their past backroom agreements of quid pro quo between dilli billis and their supporters in the rest of the country.

Difference between Right and Wrong is obvious as between Night and Day for me atleast.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 18 Feb 2014 21:58

- All these months, Lagadapati had said, we had ultimate Brahmastram (RIL) to stall T.
- Suddenly before T bifurcation had come to roost, AK suddenly raises crony capitalism and targets RIL.
- Means effectively neutralizing Ambani.

My question is, if Sonia goes ahead and creates T without bothering about her relations with Ambani, means there is something more sinister is happening, its not just 17 T seats.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 18 Feb 2014 22:02

Liloji,
This is hard time for andhra people.But I trust no injustice will be done to andhra people.This is NOT creation of p@#$%%an.But creation of Telengana within Indian Union.No more from me.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 22:04

What amendments were added to the bill if any?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Feb 2014 22:09

hanumadu wrote:
ShyamSP wrote: You are mistaken if you thought KCR and thugs were issue for Telugu people. It will be Congress iron-fist hold in the middle of India and will be E-Jihadis den. KCR and I-Jihadis will be used as rowdy elements.
EJhadis den? Not anymore than coastal andhra. In Telangana atleast, it is the lower caste that is being targeted and converted. In Andhra, its the upper caste and well to do that have already converted. Why don't you set your house in order before you blame others?

Spare me from your suggestions as none of the events affect my house. It is irking when a post is personalized.

I lived in Telangana, Rayalaseema, and Kosta. One EJ, now dies, was my neighbor for 20-30 years. Telangana is growth area and other two are saturated. When I say EJ it is not limited to converting as agenda is beyond that. When I talk of T, it is not limited to a few seats politicians get.
I have enough voting demographics I collected for 2009 elections that I can be better judge of what this is all about. To one of the BRF member I met in 2009 or 10, I said to him, it is not T that "they" want to be separate, it is Seemandhra. In the hindsight it turned out to be like that.

Read Ramana's post and ruminate.

disha · Post by **disha** » 18 Feb 2014 22:12

^^ That is the point., what are the amendments? 32? 3? 2?

Anyway, my take:

1. AP voted in CONgIs twice - 2004 and 2009. Particularly SA guys in 2009. Now bear the fruits. Start learning to take responsibility for your decisions.

2. Blaming BJP helps take the anger out., but what did BJP loose? Nothing! It had nothing to loose in the first place (I do not need fingers to count the representation of AP in BJP)

3. All the CTs are valid., however if AP was that strategic., should not CONgIs came up with a better and more seamless plan? Since they cannot - ergo CONgIs are anti-national!

So we want BJP to be nationalistic and anti-CONgI., but when it comes to votes - we want it to be more purer than pure!!

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 18 Feb 2014 22:16

ShyamSP wrote:
hanumadu wrote: EJhadis den? Not anymore than coastal andhra. In Telangana atleast, it is the lower caste that is being targeted and converted. In Andhra, its the upper caste and well to do that have already converted. Why don't you set your house in order before you blame others?
Spare me from your suggestions as none of the events affect my house. It is irking when a post is personalized.

Personalized? I don't know what you are talking about? If it is about the house, I meant it figuratively not literally. I don't know anything about your house to comment about it. To be more clear I meant why don't you fix the EJism in coastal andhra before commenting on Telangana? If you think that is a personal comment, well, I am sorry then.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Feb 2014 22:17

ramana wrote:What amendments were added to the bill if any?

I don't think there are any amendments. Raw and faulty bill was passed with apparently "voice" vote with Video feed cut.

No objectives, No finanacial details, No Krishna to stop de-robbing while Kurus watching.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Feb 2014 22:20

hanumadu wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:quote="hanumadu"
EJhadis den? Not anymore than coastal andhra. In Telangana atleast, it is the lower caste that is being targeted and converted. In Andhra, its the upper caste and well to do that have already converted. Why don't you set your house in order before you blame others?\quote

Spare me from your suggestions as none of the events affect my house. It is irking when a post is personalized.
Personalized? I don't know what you are talking about? If it is about the house, I meant it figuratively not literally. I don't know anything about your house to comment about it. To be more clear I meant why don't you fix the EJism in coastal andhra before commenting on Telangana? If you think that is a personal comment, well, I am sorry then.

My coastal house is alright it is my Telangana house that needs to be set right. Sorry last post to you unless you want to discuss something useful.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Feb 2014 22:23

disha wrote:^^ That is the point., what are the amendments? 32? 3? 2?

Anyway, my take:

1. AP voted in CONgIs twice - 2004 and 2009. Particularly SA guys in 2009. Now bear the fruits. Start learning to take responsibility for your decisions.

2. Blaming BJP helps take the anger out., but what did BJP loose? Nothing! It had nothing to loose in the first place (I do not need fingers to count the representation of AP in BJP)

3. All the CTs are valid., however if AP was that strategic., should not CONgIs came up with a better and more seamless plan? Since they cannot - ergo CONgIs are anti-national!

So we want BJP to be nationalistic and anti-CONgI., but when it comes to votes - we want it to be more purer than pure!!

42 seats out for BJP clear and simple. Sonia may let BJP win 1 to show BJP's support yielded something to have feel-good factor for BJP.

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 18 Feb 2014 22:24

5:07 pm: There were about 38 amendments that were passed. We will immediately bring the Telangana Bill to the Rajya Sabha, says Kamal Nath: Reports.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/parl ... 44136.html

member_28397 · Post by **member_28397** » 18 Feb 2014 22:28

ShyamSP wrote:
disha wrote:^^ That is the point., what are the amendments? 32? 3? 2?

Anyway, my take:

1. AP voted in CONgIs twice - 2004 and 2009. Particularly SA guys in 2009. Now bear the fruits. Start learning to take responsibility for your decisions.

2. Blaming BJP helps take the anger out., but what did BJP loose? Nothing! It had nothing to loose in the first place (I do not need fingers to count the representation of AP in BJP)

3. All the CTs are valid., however if AP was that strategic., should not CONgIs came up with a better and more seamless plan? Since they cannot - ergo CONgIs are anti-national!

So we want BJP to be nationalistic and anti-CONgI., but when it comes to votes - we want it to be more purer than pure!!
42 seats out for BJP clear and simple. Sonia may let BJP win 1 to show BJP's support yielded something to have feel-good factor for BJP.

Again 42 seats will be gifted by people of Sa and Telangana not Sonia z to CONs, so who is to blame here?

disha · Post by **disha** » 18 Feb 2014 22:30

ShyamSP wrote:42 seats out for BJP clear and simple. Sonia may let BJP win 1 to show BJP's support yielded something to have feel-good factor for BJP.

Earlier in 2004/2009., it was ZERO. Now it is "not 42". That is progress!

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 18 Feb 2014 22:30

ShyamSP wrote: My coastal house is alright it is my Telangana house that needs to be set right. Sorry last post to you unless you want to discuss something useful.

Good, I don't wan't to discuss anything with you either, lest you consider it personal.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 22:32

Was LK Advani in the Lok Sabha while the bill was being voted by voice vote?

disha · Post by **disha** » 18 Feb 2014 22:32

MaharathiArjun wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:
42 seats out for BJP clear and simple. Sonia may let BJP win 1 to show BJP's support yielded something to have feel-good factor for BJP.
Again 42 seats will be gifted by people of Sa and Telangana not Sonia z to CONs, so who is to blame here?

Bakistanis? Chineese? Bangladeshis? Americans? EJs? MNCs? Saudi Barbarians? Modi? BJP?

Everybody else but themselves.

AjitK · Post by **AjitK** » 18 Feb 2014 22:33

PRS Legislative @PRSLegislative : https://twitter.com/PRSLegislative/stat ... 4852191232 Text of the Andhra Pradesh Reorganisation Bill, 2014: http://t.co/SdoSNY1VdB

PRS Legislative : https://twitter.com/PRSLegislative/stat ... 7959109632 Text of Lok Sabha debate on the Andhra Pradesh Reorganisation Bill today:http://bit.ly/N6nSQ4 and http://bit.ly/1jC5EB4

disha · Post by **disha** » 18 Feb 2014 22:33

wasu wrote:5:07 pm: There were about 38 amendments that were passed. We will immediately bring the Telangana Bill to the Rajya Sabha, says Kamal Nath: Reports.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/parl ... 44136.html

From Firstpost:

Finally the bill was passed with a voice vote amidst the din of protesting MPs. All 62 amendments were passed with no division of votes or voting on any of them except a voice vote.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/unplu ... ef_article

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 22:36

wasu wrote:5:07 pm: There were about 38 amendments that were passed. We will immediately bring the Telangana Bill to the Rajya Sabha, says Kamal Nath: Reports.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/parl ... 44136.html

Crucial time line

3:38 pm: Lok Sabha adopts Telangana Bill.

Sushilkumar Shinde, Sushma Swaraj and S. Jaipal Reddy were the only three to take part in the discussion that lasted less than twenty minutes.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/parl ... 44136.html

So only two in ruling and one oppositiion was allowed to speak.
How do we know the voice vote was a majority?
No paper trail, no video no other traceability.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Feb 2014 22:40

disha wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:42 seats out for BJP clear and simple. Sonia may let BJP win 1 to show BJP's support yielded something to have feel-good factor for BJP.
Earlier in 2004/2009., it was ZERO. Now it is "not 42". That is progress!

In 2004, TDP-BJP won ~6 seats prior to that in 1999 ~30 seats. It was in 2009 TDP went alone.

Now onwards, TDP can't go with BJP in Telangana as it has to win Khammam, Adilabad, etc with the help of communists and Hyderabad with the help of Andhra people. It can't go with BJP in Seemandhra purely because they will be voted down.

BJP will be limited 5% in T with some chances of winning some MLAs in Hyderabad, Nizamabad, Mahabubnagr districts. I don't see any growth in coming years also and getting anything from AP regions.

Now there is permanent wedge that Congress succeeded in putting between BJP and TDP. Only success BJP had was to throw Congress by name in Seemandhra.

disha · Post by **disha** » 18 Feb 2014 22:46

AjitK wrote:PRS Legislative @PRSLegislative : https://twitter.com/PRSLegislative/stat ... 4852191232 Text of the Andhra Pradesh Reorganisation Bill, 2014: http://t.co/SdoSNY1VdB

PRS Legislative : https://twitter.com/PRSLegislative/stat ... 7959109632 Text of Lok Sabha debate on the Andhra Pradesh Reorganisation Bill today:http://bit.ly/N6nSQ4 and http://bit.ly/1jC5EB4

AjitK, thanks for the links.

Heavy read., actually very interesting and must read. It will take time to parse out details.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 22:48

Disha, When you do please start new thread so folks can understand and get reconciled.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Feb 2014 22:58

ramana wrote:yvijay, Agreed. Need to be cool and not let rancour sour the moment. Afterall its a great day after fall of Orugallu. However I want a native Telangana leadership to lead.

Just yesterday heard a rumor circulating on the ground that that might come true. KCR might have been Ghatotkatcha. There is a possibility Sri Krishna might enter the field leaving Arjuna on the side. Not a perfect analogy though.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 23:00

Send me an ekhat.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Feb 2014 23:01

Here is a state that was divided without consensus, and without taking the aggrieved parties into confidence. It took just 23 minutes to pass a landmark bill that split people on the basis of region and in the absence of leaders who represent the majority of them.Doors were closed, Lok Sabha proceedings were not telecast, people of the nation were fooled into believing that a consensus was reached and the bill accepted.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Feb 2014 23:07

Rajagopal: Saved your post. We can follow the trajectory for 10 years and take stock. If you wish, please put a sha1 signature also on it that nothing is changed.

I believe you paint a scenario that is too dire to come true.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2014 23:25

ramana garu; I believe this is indeed a case of looking for intelligence as a motive where stupidity suffices -- this might be hard for people of AP, but the fact is, this was done because of 2014, short sightedly, It was not done due to long term plan or a great game or anything like that.

Congress is merely using simplest of scorched earth tactics in its sheer panic, and the reason they chose AP is because, AP provided support to them for 10 years. The scorched earth tactics are never carried out in enemy areas, its always a retreating power that does it in its homeland as a last ditch effort.

AP is homeland of congress today, warts and all, that is the reality, and a dying congress is setting fire to its pastures to make sure the enemy does not camp. As simple as that.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Feb 2014 23:35

Sanku wrote:ramana garu; I believe this is indeed a case of looking for intelligence as a motive where stupidity suffices -- this might be hard for people of AP, but the fact is, this was done because of 2014, short sightedly, It was not done due to long term plan or a great game or anything like that.

Congress is merely using simplest of scorched earth tactics in its sheer panic, and the reason they chose AP is because, AP provided support to them for 10 years. The scorched earth tactics are never carried out in enemy areas, its always a retreating power that does it in its homeland as a last ditch effort.

AP is homeland of congress today, warts and all, that is the reality, and a dying congress is setting fire to its pastures to make sure the enemy does not camp. As simple as that.

In some sense yes, it can do scorched earth tactics in only 2-3 states, AP being one. Only success BJP had it precipitated Congress burning itself in Seemandhra and denied 25 seats to Congress also. BJP went with plan A instead of plan B. Seemandhra has become Tamilnadu with purely Telugu parties in play.

Congress now will have to scratch single digits to teens from each state. If MH denies them more seats, they are screwed also.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 18 Feb 2014 23:37

matrimc wrote:
ramana wrote:yvijay, Agreed. Need to be cool and not let rancour sour the moment. Afterall its a great day after fall of Orugallu. However I want a native Telangana leadership to lead.
Just yesterday heard a rumor circulating on the ground that that might come true. KCR might have been Ghatotkatcha. There is a possibility Sri Krishna might enter the field leaving Arjuna on the side. Not a perfect analogy though.

Damodar Narasimha is being talked as the CM. He's a SC (I think first time in AP history, SC as CM) and current deputy CM.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 23:50

yvijay, D Sanjeeviah after N Sanjiva Reddy was CM from 1960 to 1962. He went on to become a Union Minister. Very upright person.

C. Damador Raja Narsimha is not SC. He is a Reddy.
He is MLA from Andole in Medak and followed his father who was also three time MLA.

I was told during Christmas break that S. Jaipal Reddy would be the first CM.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 18 Feb 2014 23:56

So what happens when the bill is tabled in RS and there are amendments? Then it has to come back to LS for another vote. The game of blacking out live proceedings and pushing through the bill without a proper vote cannot be done again. Then?

Second, while I understand the emotions, I firmly believe it is not right to blame NaMo or the BJP for this morning's incident. This was a game played by the CONgis with their usual deceit and the BJP could not have done jack.

SS, while I have absolutely NO regard for her, was caught off guard. My personal opinion would be to throw her out but this is not going to happen anytime soon. Irrespective of NaMo's preferences.

Last but not the least, to those who are jumping on the Andhrites that they got what they deserve by voting for the CONgis in the past: remember, we the people from the other states of India could be victims of similar moves sometime in the future.

We have to take a collective step back and think about Bharat. Telengana would have been made to happen - kamal nath said they were going to do this one way or another. What I believe: Seemandara can be taken care of when the BJP come to power.

NaMo and the BJP are not the ones against who the anger should be directed against. If this happens, the CONgis have won.

Absolute last: the CONgis will do this and more between now and the elections. They are pursuing a 'scorched earth' policy and their one and ONLY aim is "anyone but Modi". And they will do whatever it takes to make it difficult for NaMo.

When this confrontation started, at the end of which the destiny of Bharat is at stake, I am sure all of us knew the journey would not be smooth. We will have to go through trials and tribulations..and perhaps see acts that hurt the very grain of our soul. Don't despair but more importantly, DONT GIVE UP NOW. Don't take your eyes off the ball!!

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 19 Feb 2014 00:00

ramana wrote:yvijay, D Sanjeeviah after N Sanjiva Reddy was CM from 1960 to 1962. He went on to become a Union Minister. Very upright person.

C. Damador Raja Narsimha is not SC. He is a Reddy.
He is MLA from Andole in Medak and followed his father who was also three time MLA.

I was told during Christmas break that S. Jaipal Reddy would be the first CM.

Thanks for the info about D Sanjeevaiah. I take that back. But C. Damador Raja Narsimha sure is not a Reddy, he is a SC. Are you sure about it ?
Raja Narasimha aims to do a Mayawati in South

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 19 Feb 2014 00:03

ramana wrote:yvijay, D Sanjeeviah after N Sanjiva Reddy was CM from 1960 to 1962. He went on to become a Union Minister. Very upright person.

C. Damador Raja Narsimha is not SC. He is a Reddy.
He is MLA from Andole in Medak and followed his father who was also three time MLA.

I was told during Christmas break that S. Jaipal Reddy would be the first CM.

He is SC, Madiga to be specific. He may be made token CM to satisfy KCR that an SC will be made CM. Satisfy stooges but get want you want.
If Reddy is made, it will hurt Velamas so SC can be safe bet. BC may be option to limit TDP. As a note, Madigas and BCs are majority TDP supporters in T.

Geeta Reddy who is SC, Mala to be specific, married to Reddy from Rayalaseema and got Reddy tag.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Feb 2014 00:09

+1. As I said before on the NaMo thread there was no need for Sushma Swaraj to adi the Congress malfeasnce. They would have done it anyway. Why give assent and thus legitimacy? All she did was draw ire towards BJP which is a nonplayer in this mess. And she succeeded beyond expectations. People are disenchanted after the AAP collapse. SS has shown there is not much difference between the parties.
Lok Sabha is not Las vegas. What happens there doese not stay there as it will be leaked out by Congress. Across all the media her role is being highlighted and BJP is drawing the fire instead of Congress with its Radcliffe mentality.

--------

I stand corrected on D Raja Narsimha.

Vamsi.R · Post by **Vamsi.R** » 19 Feb 2014 00:10

talk of T-TDP MLA's joining BJP doing rounds now..we will get a clear picture by tomorrow i guess

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Feb 2014 01:01

I said before that I heard T-TDP ex-MP joining BJP. BJP can harvest some TDP, TRS, and Cong(I)s from T and get a majority of 17 seats.
SA is a question mark. Is there any strategy (would CBN go as far as merging TDP into BJP if given assusrance that he would get deputy PM created especially for him and would be automatically considered for PMship after a couple of terms when NaMo wants to step down) that would make BJP get back the goodwill of SA people?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Feb 2014 01:05

Anyone monitoring the twitter accounts to get feel for what the others feel?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Feb 2014 01:07

ramana wrote:Send me an ekhat.

ramana garu: Will do so. But my information may be a bit stale in light of LS passing the bill. If he doesn't enter the field that means T will be a reality (even in RS) and TRS will merge into Congress.

Who is getting the Polavaram contract is the deciding factor I think. Lot of guess work onlee.