Bharat Rakshak

Muppalla wrote:^^^
God forbid - BD's current PM's removal actually can be atributed to Chinese agression on India.

brihaspati wrote:Since then more disturbing signals coming in. Things could happen in both/either-or of Pak and BD. In some ways the military will be involved.

Pakistan's embattled Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani Thursday said conspirators were plotting to bring down his government and delivered an unprecedented tirade against the powerful military.

In astonishing confirmation that he fears being ousted, he angrily denied the government was subservient to the army, long considered the chief arbiter of power in Pakistan as his administration grapples with a damaging scandal.
[...]
But any decision from the Supreme Court to investigate the memo, as recommended by the military, would build significant pressure on the president at a time of huge tension between the army and the civilian government.

Elections are not due until February 2013, but the opposition has begun campaign rallies in earnest and many observers expect polls some time in 2012. No civilian leader in Pakistan has ever completed a full term in office.

Although the military has ruled Pakistan for more than half its existence and seized power in three coups, analysts rule out any imminent takeover. At the National Arts Gallery, Gilani called the army "disciplined", saying that they "follow the constitution" and "will remain under the government".

But heading off questions in parliament, he took aim at the army after the defence ministry told the Supreme Court "it does not exercise any operational control" over the armed forces or ISI intelligence agency.

"If they say that they are not under the ministry of defence, then we should get out of this slavery, then this parliament has no importance, this system has no importance, then you are not sovereign," he told lawmakers.

"Nobody is above the law, all the institutions are subservient to the parliament," Gilani insisted.

Appearing to lose patience, he said the government had stood by the security services over a storm of American pressure over the Osama bin Laden killing, the November 26 NATO attack and the 2008 attacks on Mumbai.

"In the worst circumstances we doubled their salaries. They have to be accountable to parliament." "We are being asked by the judicial commission (examining the May 2 US raid that killed bin Laden raid and how the Al-Qaeda leader lived in Pakistan undetected) about issuance of visas (to Americans).

"But I want to ask how was (bin Laden) living here for the past six years? On what type of visa was he living here? Why was security not taken care of, if he entered Pakistan without a visa?"

The report was published in British newspaper The Sunday Times and was also reported by local newspapers. It alleges that Khan was introduced to Munter in General Shuja Pasha's presence, adding that Khan is supported by the Pakistani intelligence agency and military.

brihaspati wrote:
If Gilani and Zardari are somehow forced out, it would perhaps be an indication towards confirmation of the model I had proposed : that post independence, a large part of the deep core of intel in Pak is maintained by the Brits. Hence a lot of what ISI does would be tied in to long-term British interests, pet-hates or obsessions.

brihaspati wrote:Acharya ji, but isnt it better that in a way the Americans do not learn the Brit ways. That would simply prolong Islamism - just as the Brits used them to tackle their colonial and post-colonial enemies.

brihaspati wrote: But should we let the Brits escape the radar completely by focusing entirely on US?

brihaspati wrote:ramana ji,
I am trying to encourage people to look into continuing Brit role too. I have a feeling that USA's showmanship could be a good point for old masters of imperialism to utilize. USA definitely has done and does a lot of stuff. But should we let the Brits escape the radar completely by focusing entirely on US?

ramana wrote:I tell you uncle is fascinated with Hyderabad to figure out how to benefit:

‘Hyderabad of yore cradle of ganga-jamni tehzeeb'

‘Hyderabad of yore cradle of ganga-jamni tehzeeb'
J. S. Ifthekhar
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The Hindu American Historian Prof. Karen Leonard (University of California, Los Angeles) presenting her paper at MANUU. Related
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Andhra Pradesh

Hyderabad


India

Andhra Pradesh

People now may be sharply divided on religious lines but the Hyderabad of yesteryears presented a successful example of a pluralistic society. Regardless of their religious affiliations everyone participated in the dominant public culture, especially those living in the neighbourhoods of the walled City.

“The Indo-Muslim practices are not evidence of a cultural synthesis, syncretism or hybridity. Rather they are evidence of a successful plural society,” remarked Karen Leonard, professor of Anthropology, University of California, Irvine.

She was delivering a lecture on ‘Indo-Muslim culture in Hyderabad – Old City neighbourhoods in the 19 century' at the Maulana Azad National Urdu University. Prof. Leonard focused on the history of Hyderabad state in Deccan as part of the fifth biennial convention of the Association for the Study of Persianate Societies.

3 neighbourwoods
She talked about three contrasting neighbourhoods of the old city – Shahalibanda, Chowk Maidan Khan and Hussainialam – and highlighted their differences and distinct cultural practices.

Hindus and Muslims as also Telugu, Marathi, Kanada, Hindi and Urdu speakers took part in the public culture of their place and time. The Kayasth caste, Ms. Leonard said, were characterised as ‘half Muslim' since many of its members became prominent administrators for Muslim rulers in India and also emerged as scholars and poets in Arabic, Persian and Urdu.

Shahalibanda was essentially a site of military establishments. It was home to the leading military noble family of Paigahs and Gaur Kayasth ‘serrishtahdars' (managers) of military and household units.

Residents here came from many cultural backgrounds and economic levels. Imposing residences of Hindu and Muslim nobles and military commanders shared space with small communities of tanners, salt makers, grain carriers and goat sellers.

Enthusiastic celebrations
Muharram was enthusiastically observed and the Kayasths kept ‘alams' in their homes and built Ashoorkhanas. Some Kayasth families even fasted like Shias. Hindu festivals such as Ramlila celebrations were privately sponsored in Shahalibanda.

The Malwala family was the wealthiest family in Chowk Maidan Khan locality. The family supported the neighbourhood mosques and donated money in Ramzan. During Muharram, the Malwala family displayed ‘alams', set up ‘abdarkhanas' to serve ‘sherbet' to people.

Hussainialam, according to Prof. Leonard, was more crowded and its population heterogeneous. The Kayasths here were Saksenas, Bhatnagars and Srivastavas. Some Brahmin families and Bohra Muslims also lived here.

Referring to the literary front, Prof. Leonard recalled how these localities produced famous Hindi poets of Hyderabad. The literary activity revolved around Persian till the late 19 century when Urdu became a popular medium of expression. Many Kayasth poets were deeply influenced by Sufi thoughts. Prof. Leonard recited the lines of Bansi Raja of Hussainialam:

I do not put tilak,

It's just another headache

Nor do I perform sejdah,

It makes a black spot on my face

Convienently forgets the series of atrocities on Hindus of composite Hyderabad.


Someone said a a wolf that has lost its teeth is a saint.

Those Hindu families quoted are a good example of Telugu saying" Aaru ella savasm cheeste varu veeru ayyaru!"

Living together wifor six years they became indistingushiable!

What the Telugus made was move the center of the new city far away from the old ghettos.

devesh wrote:access to the long coast is definitely one of the key priorities for external interests...

brihaspati wrote:The basic radicalism in Andhra stems from idealistic strains within the Hindu. Radicalism by its very nature needs to change dishes and menu regularly. ...

At least two generations have now matured and experimented with the leftist radicalism. They need new food now. ...Give them time. This time the experiment will turn to the right.

brihaspati wrote:Andhra will change. The basic radicalism in Andhra stems from idealistic strains within the Hindu. Radicalism by its very nature needs to change dishes and menu regularly. Strong tastes require frequent changing as one gets used to some single fare. Andhra, Bengal and middle GV [the frontier between modern Bihar and lower UP with the Mahadeo hills pivot] have always been radical. No speculation on origins - could be ethnic as well as cultural links and ancient presence.

At least two generations have now matured and experimented with the leftist radicalism. They need new food now. This is what partly has driven the EJ feeding frenzy - but it will not be enough for these particular stomachs. Give them time. This time the experiment will turn to the right.

Carl wrote:
So who's to say that even the rightist phase won't pass? Is there any particular direction these phases cycle towards? Does each iteration cycle through a few memetic nutrients that cumulatively satisfy the basic drive?

Carl wrote:

brihaspati wrote:The basic radicalism in Andhra stems from idealistic strains within the Hindu. Radicalism by its very nature needs to change dishes and menu regularly. ...

At least two generations have now matured and experimented with the leftist radicalism. They need new food now. ...Give them time. This time the experiment will turn to the right.

So who's to say that even the rightist phase won't pass? Is there any particular direction these phases cycle towards? Does each iteration cycle through a few memetic nutrients that cumulatively satisfy the basic drive?

The former National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra was spot on when he observed that Indian pundits would do exceedingly well by keeping their traps shut with regard to the dramatic events in Pakistan. Yet, the establishment set the ball rolling. So far so good, though.

Home Minister P Chidambaram’s chance remark that India is keeping a close watch is a statement of fact at the highest level of Indian leadership. As a matter of fact, from personal experience in the South Block I can vouchsafe that we never bat an eyelid when it comes to watching (or eavesdropping) on Pakistan. It cannot be otherwise.
And so does Pakistan, given its own entire narrative of what India has been about and how bad it still can be in a worst-case scenario. Incidentally, events in India also mesmerize the Pakistani mind — Anna Hazare, for instance.

But beyond that, to anticipate ‘any eventuality’ and apprehend a spillover effect of the Pakistan events will be, as we say out here in Kerala, like lifting the dhoti a mile ahead of the stream that could even turn out to be dry, in anticipation of one having to cross it eventually — one ends up exposing one’s nakedness. The heart of the matter is that the stream has a dry bed and it is obvious that for a long time already since November 26, 2008, no water flowed through it.

There is a qualitative difference to the political crisis in Pakistan. This is not a run-of-the-mill story being retold — of an imminent military coup. Army chief Ashfaq Kayani actually took permission from PM Yusuf Gilani before the ISPR statement regarding the latter’s media outburst of the ‘illegality’ of the military’s recent actions.

Again, Pakistan’s press is indeed a thriving opinion-maker today and it is uniformly stressing its visceral aversion to army rule. No political party is playing footsie with the military. In any case, Kayani is an unusual general. In all these years of Pakistan watching since 1977 when I first moved into the desk in South Block, I’ve never come across a soldier comparable to him. The nearest to him might have been Jehangir Karamat, but then the social background and the Pakistani ethos and the nativist traits of Kayani keep him apart. (Maybe, they both smoked Dunhill cigarettes.)

All things considered, therefore, this is a crisis with a difference. Surely, Pakistan has its loads of internal problems — just as we have in India. PM Manmohan Singh just reminded us of a ‘national shame’. (I wonder why it can’t be the stuff of editorial comments in our press!)

The root cause of Pakistan’s instability is the presence of western troops on its borders and a shameful war next door. American soldiers urinating on the listless corpses of Afghans…. One can very well imagine the fury raging through the Pashtun mind. This has been a futile and mindless war fought for geopolitical purposes. Pervez Musharraf should never have allowed himself to behave like a frightened kitten. Pakistan is today paying the price for his cowardice.

In sum, Pakistan’s instability is far from terminal. Pakistan is slowly and steadily working out the equilibrium between the civil and military authority. I couldn’t have imagined when I arrived in Turkey on my assignment as ambassador in 1998 that the country could look like this today. It took a decade. In Pakistan, too, change will come. But let Pakistan sort out its political equilibrium on its own. The Americans, in particular, should stay miles away from interfering. {And we Indians should help TSP become the Turkey of the Subcontinent, just like I suppose Iran should help Erdogan become the new Ottoman Caliph of the Mid-East?}

The main drawback today is not Kayani but the sad reality that Pakistan’s bourgeois parties are similar to India’s — lacking in ideology and in leaderships with the courage of conviction. That’s where Recep Tayyip Erdogan scores over Asif Zardari or Nawaz Sharif.

Mishra is right, we can help Pakistan by being politically mature ourselves. Indeed, times have changed. Amidst all this crisis, look at the grace with which Prime Minister Gilani chose to go on a nostalgic trip — how green was Mohali. Our pundits should reciprocate his statesmanship.

brihaspati wrote:Many seem to have written AP off. But that place will provide an important component of revival. its not the particular narrative form of radicalism that we should get so worked up on. The theory of radicalism will change from one historical period to another. But the driving memes remain the same - and both in Bengal and AP - this remains the egalitarian, social-justice aspect of long term Hindu trends. Same goes for the bulk of Maha - even if it now seems to be in the clutches of transnational criminals and their support bases within.

Places to watch out for potential trouble would be Bihar-UP border [western Bihar] and Gujarat. UP elections will only deepen the fractures in the north Indian upper GV networks.

devesh wrote:

brihaspati wrote:Many seem to have written AP off. But that place will provide an important component of revival. its not the particular narrative form of radicalism that we should get so worked up on. The theory of radicalism will change from one historical period to another. But the driving memes remain the same - and both in Bengal and AP - this remains the egalitarian, social-justice aspect of long term Hindu trends. Same goes for the bulk of Maha - even if it now seems to be in the clutches of transnational criminals and their support bases within.

Places to watch out for potential trouble would be Bihar-UP border [western Bihar] and Gujarat. UP elections will only deepen the fractures in the north Indian upper GV networks.

do you mean that Western Bihar and Gujarat might succumb to internationalist pressures or in the sense that they will be "trouble" for the ruling regime?

Gujarat, for now at least, seems to be in the "saffron" camp.

brihaspati wrote:

devesh wrote:Gujarat, for now at least, seems to be in the "saffron" camp.

They may succumb.

brihaspati wrote: Places to watch out for potential trouble would be Bihar-UP border [western Bihar] and Gujarat. UP elections will only deepen the fractures in the north Indian upper GV networks.

Klaus wrote:

brihaspati wrote: Places to watch out for potential trouble would be Bihar-UP border [western Bihar] and Gujarat. UP elections will only deepen the fractures in the north Indian upper GV networks.

Even if Bahraich 2.0 happens sometime soon? Your conclusion is that the spread of such a victory would be restricted through coercive machinery and hence short-lived, i.e Magadha resurgence is stemmed at the plains?

But young Pakistanis are now reconsidering partition—because the bloodletting continues. Oh, those thinking the unthinkable are the well-educated, the next generation of Benazir Bhuttos pursuing college degrees in the United States and Canada, or manning ex-im offices in Singapore, Abu Dhabi, and London. Bhutto’s murder and the 2008 Mumbai massacre by Islamist terrorists in league with ISI officers spurred harsh moral reflection and intellectual reappraisal.

Pakistan as India’s rival? Only in cricket. India has six times Pakistan’s population and about 10 times its GDP. Year by year Pakistan decays amid corruption, Islamic terrorism, and economic rot. India’s economic surge has made it a global power. Bollywood entertains Asia. India’s Hindus and Christians and Sikhs and, yes, despite Mohammed Ali Jinnah’s contrary claim, Muslims, too, have economic opportunities. Jinnah, leader of the Muslim League and Pakistan’s first post-partition governor general, contended Muslims would never prosper if yoked by a Hindu majority. Jinnah was intellectually and politically gifted, a sophisticate with cosmopolitan taste. Sixty years of history have shown he was dead wrong.

And the new reunifiers know it. Their idea is preposterous, a fantasy, but it has on its side a deeper history than the last six decades. They argue that a reunited India would give Pakistani modernizers strategic depth (is the idea to let Pak wreak India under the name of Pak's "strategic depth"? the notion that India is Pak's strategic depth is reverse and perverse logic. it's the other way around): economically, demographically, socially, and geographically. The geographic argument has old roots. For millennia the “tribal threat from the mountains” has vexed northern India, from the Indus valley (Pakistan’s heartland) and east beyond Delhi. The reunifiers see the Taliban and other violent factions as tribal raiders attacking the wealthy lowlands, with the goal of seizing urban wealth, imposing tribal rule, then pushing east. Antiquarian? No, insightful. Al Qaeda promotes a 10th-century misogynistic social order; it glorifies beheadings but says little about jobs. A reinvented pre-partition India would have the economic, social, and demographic depth to buffer and absorb the tribes and their turmoil. Pakistan alone does not.

Two years ago, while discussing the idea of a reunited India with a faculty member at the University of Texas, I pointed out that the reunifiers know they are engaged in a protracted, low-grade civil war, pitting Pakistani modernizers against militant Muslim religious fundamentalists. The modernizers believe a reunited subcontinent would give them instant allies. But consider the obstacles. Indians might balk at absorbing Pakistan’s basket-case economy. (South Koreans fear a generation of paying for North Korea’s poverty post-reunification.)We’ve also had six decades of hateful propaganda spewed by jingoists in Delhi and Islamabad—the heirs of Gandhi’s “comrades” hellbent on personal power. They stoke enmity between Muslims and Hindus for political advantage.

The professor replied that the Pakistani intellectuals he’d met acknowledged re-creation might take a generation—but they raise the possibility and see its value.

Meanwhile, Pakistan risks collapse. Lawrence Solomon, in an article in Canada’s Financial Post, argued that British India requires further “unstitching.” Solomon’s scenario had Pakistan splitting into Pashtun Afghania, Baluchistan, a Sindh state, and an independent Punjab. Solomon asserted that, with the possible exception of current “top dog” Punjab, “the new nations to emerge from a breakup of Pakistan likely would soon become more prosperous as well as more free.”

Likely more prosperous and free? Maybe. A stand-alone Sindh might do well, for a while. In A Quick and Dirty Guide to War (2008), James. F. Dunnigan and I speculated that a Punjab-Sindh state might be more stable than Pakistan. But Pashtun and Baluchi states? I see a squalid future: These suddenly independent confederations slip deeper into misery, plagued by unmitigated clan violence while continuing to provide, with even less intelligence scrutiny, bases for well-financed terrorists. Punjab and Sindh still confront the threat from the hills. Where do they look for help? To India? That’s the argument for restitching, not unstitching.

Abandoning the hills to their despair is a mistake. The tribes deserve peace and development. A dysfunctional Pakistan cannot provide either. A restitched India could, in time.

The Pakistani major at Ft. Benning repeatedly told me the lieutenant-colonel was an unusual man. The day the leg cast came off the lieutenant-colonel and I went to the mess hall. Over dinner he explained the major’s comment: “I come from a hill tribe. We plaster bricks with goat sh— to keep the wind out.”