India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

[SSridhar]

Vikram Sood seems to be warning Modi about getting too close to US?

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.c ... o-us-ties/

That is well written. I wanted to add some comments to what Mr. Sood has written.

It is indeed commendable that a man ostracised by the US until acouple of years ago is shortly going to address the US Congress and meet US President Barack Obama in a fourth bilateral.

Commendable indeed, but the ostracization will be back once Modi demits the office. The embers are there for us to see.

. . . the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), rechristened the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (Lemoa), still has clauses that seem worrisome. Hopefully, the implications of the clause that will allow the US using Indian bases and ports for its own military objectives has not been lost on India strategists.

Obviously, Mr. Sood is aware of the clauses. That is why this constant myth-making that it is a simple agreement that India *must* have and the US has not much to gain from it is completely off the mark.

The US may have begun to abandon hyphenating India and Pakistan. But it cannot help being ambivalent about Pakistan. This will not change, however much we find US policy on Pakistan inexplicable.

Nothing new for us here. Would be interesting to see other reactions here.

Today, the Chinese assert Pakistan is their closest ally in Asia and they will stand by Pakistan. This is a message both to India and the US.

If China steadfastly stands against us on the NSG & Masood Azhar issue, that conclusion would be well validated. So far, that appears true.

In recent years, the US has been extremely expansive in many ways when dealing with India.

Democracy? No. Partnership? Can't be. Or India as a market and the West’s catspaw as acounterbalance against China.

India and the US may not become allies or partners. The former requires a near total commonality of interests and ethos while the latter presumes equality. None of these possibilities exists in US-India bilateral ties.

What we should, therefore, reasonably seek is a long-term understanding, or an arrangement that endures.

That's what ideally we should have. But, GoI must display enormous fortitude to refuse US demands where they would be at variance with Indian interests. India cannot avoid siding with the US in the second Cold War that is developing. Though this Cold War is based on economics, not ideology, the main players would remain the same with minor adjustments in the Red Team where China assumes leadership and Russia its deputy. The sidekicks on both sides may be reshuffled.

[schinnas]

Commendable indeed, but the ostracization will be back once Modi demits the office. The embers are there for us to see.

SS-ji,
If there is even any remnant of ostracization after all the hugging and rolling over the red-carpet multiple times, it will reflect badly only on Massa and not on Modi. More over, Modi being the master tactician used his US trips to demonstrate his support and popularity amongst the sizeable and affluent Indian Amercian community. Additionally, Indian American community has now started growing muscles and is flexing its still nascently formed muscles by means of lobbying and getting involved in US politics. No politician in US will want to insult a tall Indian leader in the future when it is not warranted for US interests.

Hillary must be made to pay for unnecessarily going after Modi in the past, which will act as a deterrent for other US politicians in the future to stop meddling overtly in India's internal politics. Covertly, they will always be involved.

[rgosain]

A Clinton-Huma admin that is influenced by a nexus of islamists, the prc and various EJ crowds would be tempted to ban Modi whether he was the Pm or not, just to shore up their key constituencies before and after the elections.

[RajeshA]

However, extrapolation works very well in social sciences and sciences. In pure politics, it is good to keep that sort of info in the back pocket - one will need it for sure - but as times change so do the behavior of politicians.

Just for the record I said "lean", not "pro" India.

And, there are two things that make me predict that: 1) NO ONE can ignore India any longer (the assumption is that India *takes care of business* and does not go of on a tangent political/religious/social/whatever) and 2) Modi continuous down the path he has been following in all respects (as an example, he will throw every NGO out of the country and not care about what the US thinks)(and that is how the game is played, not continuous analysis). HC can yak and yaw, but that will not impact the "relationship" - remember the deep state? That deep state in the US is slowly waking to the fact that this is a new India that the US needs.

I think India will dictate terms. Granted the change will not be immediate (EG: we may see Italy with an upper hand on the MTCR issue). But, when the change comes everyone better watch out.

The US, for one, has recognized that (more on that later - I was going to post a more complete post on the LEMOA topic).

HC will change her color - for good. Not because she will grow to like India, but because she will have no choice.

I would, for the time being, throw those *very valid points*, used to extrapolate, out of the window. Only because (I think) there are more recent points to include in the data set.

I have no doubts that India under Modi would prevail on the international scene and in looking after India's interests.

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

If the ideological bent of the President does not matter for the Office, then the Presidency is irrelevant, but the fact is that it does.

I don't see any need to be over-confident that just because India has started to shine in the world, the others would naturally move to applaud it and not to nix it.

Considering the past facts, Indians ought to try and do everything to make HRC lose the election, instead of sitting back smug in the confidence of India's rise trumping all other ideological considerations for the US President.

[svinayak]

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

In many cases US engagement with India will pull India down. US media does lot of damage to India with other rival countries using US media against India.

[RajeshA]

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

In many cases US engagement with India will pull India down. US media does lot of damage to India with other rival countries using US media against India.

svinayak guru,

Donald Trump has ensured that the left-liberal US media simply loses its bombast and its ability to talk down to other countries. Before NYT and WaPo and HuffPo can go again preach to the world, they would first have to exorcise the Trump ghost, and that itself can take many many years, even after Trump Presidency is over.

[svinayak]

svinayak guru,

Donald Trump has ensured that the left-liberal US media simply loses its bombast and its ability to talk down to other countries. Before NYT and WaPo and HuffPo can go again preach to the world, they would first have to exorcise the Trump ghost, and that itself can take many many years, even after Trump Presidency is over.

Good points. But Trump is not the whole of America. He has only so much ability. The culture has changed

[chetak]

anybody remember this??

think of this arsehole and his pals and you will understand every US policy that was/is ever made that includes India.

[RajeshA]

svinayak guru,

Donald Trump has ensured that the left-liberal US media simply loses its bombast and its ability to talk down to other countries. Before NYT and WaPo and HuffPo can go again preach to the world, they would first have to exorcise the Trump ghost, and that itself can take many many years, even after Trump Presidency is over.

Good points. But Trump is not the whole of America. He has only so much ability. The culture has changed

There may be other reasons of course. For example, if there are some attacks on African-Americans anywhere, as has happened so often, the USCIRF would still bring out a report on the sorry plight of minorities and socially-backwards in India.

Rise of Donald Trump, and especially if he is elected President, takes away the right of the American Left-Liberals, even in their eyes, to preach to the world, and that would be an important step - the loss of the moral high ground, even from their perspective.

[sanjaykumar]

The civil rightsleislation enacted by LBJ owed much to the USSR taunting America on its black populations haplessness.

[NRao]

However, extrapolation works very well in social sciences and sciences. In pure politics, it is good to keep that sort of info in the back pocket - one will need it for sure - but as times change so do the behavior of politicians.

Just for the record I said "lean", not "pro" India.

And, there are two things that make me predict that: 1) NO ONE can ignore India any longer (the assumption is that India *takes care of business* and does not go of on a tangent political/religious/social/whatever) and 2) Modi continuous down the path he has been following in all respects (as an example, he will throw every NGO out of the country and not care about what the US thinks)(and that is how the game is played, not continuous analysis). HC can yak and yaw, but that will not impact the "relationship" - remember the deep state? That deep state in the US is slowly waking to the fact that this is a new India that the US needs.

I think India will dictate terms. Granted the change will not be immediate (EG: we may see Italy with an upper hand on the MTCR issue). But, when the change comes everyone better watch out.

The US, for one, has recognized that (more on that later - I was going to post a more complete post on the LEMOA topic).

HC will change her color - for good. Not because she will grow to like India, but because she will have no choice.

I would, for the time being, throw those *very valid points*, used to extrapolate, out of the window. Only because (I think) there are more recent points to include in the data set.

I have no doubts that India under Modi would prevail on the international scene and in looking after India's interests.

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

If the ideological bent of the President does not matter for the Office, then the Presidency is irrelevant, but the fact is that it does.

I don't see any need to be over-confident that just because India has started to shine in the world, the others would naturally move to applaud it and not to nix it.

Considering the past facts, Indians ought to try and do everything to make HRC lose the election, instead of sitting back smug in the confidence of India's rise trumping all other ideological considerations for the US President.

No problem with anything you say - they all hit the bulls eye.

My args are out of that box though.

First there is nothing that we see that we have not encountered before. So, if India does not have a game plan in place to counter events that are known, then .............................................. In short, up to India to counter such things. The US - like I have many a times - is not going to change that much from an ideological perspective. Deep state will be deep state, nothing new there.

However, the US is on the decline (see the vid of three regional ambies - to China, India and Af-Pak). And, India is on the rise.

Next this is Modidom, not Madamedom or MMSdom.

So, the changes is opposing ways will/can only help India ................................ Provided India plays her cards well. By cards I mean internal too. India can no longer ignore the -ves in the nation, for India's own sake - nothing to do with what other nations or groups outside India think or do. India cannot afford to grow one extremely health arm and the other polio-ed. India needs sustained, equitable growth. Else India would socially collapse without any external effort.



And, DT has his own ghosts that he brings along. He may not play a role to bring India down in ways HC would, but he will bring India down through climate change. For sure. I would rather have HC on that front. However, I do support DT on saving jobs - assuming he means that he does not like outsourcing them. Hard to know what DT thinks at times.

[Austin]

US calls for improvement in India-Pakistan ties, says a conflict could spark nuclear war

[schinnas]

anybody remember this??

think of this arsehole and his pals and you will understand every US policy that was/is ever made that includes India.

You cannot generalize this. Nixon was extremely anti-India and Pro Pak as Pakistan opened up China for him. Kennedy on the other hand was very pro-India and wondered why Nehru was rejecting his overtures and not seeing the communist threat to the north.

[schinnas]

For example, if there are some attacks on African-Americans anywhere, as has happened so often, the USCIRF would still bring out a report on the sorry plight of minorities and socially-backwards in India.

Rise of Donald Trump, and especially if he is elected President, takes away the right of the American Left-Liberals, even in their eyes, to preach to the world, and that would be an important step - the loss of the moral high ground, even from their perspective.

Right on. I have been advocating for Trump specifically for this reason. US will lose any semblance of moral high ground and its liberals will lose some of their condescending tone and come down to earth in a Trump presidency.

[SSridhar]

The Americans have no moral right to preach even now. The sad fact is that we do not have the means and wherewithal to tabulate the atrocities in the US and spread the word around.

[arshyam]

^^ SSridhar sir, please check out Swarajya, they have been politely holding a mirror to the great khan. Will post the article in the understanding thread as well.

Voting Rights Of Minorities Under Threat In America - Swarajya

It seems the world’s self-proclaimed oldest democracy is not doing a great job in protecting the full citizenship rights of its minorities.

As it turns out, in Texas alone, more than 6 lakh people don’t have the form of identification required to vote, according to a federal court. In other parts of the country the figure is quite disturbing: 11 per cent of Americans risk losing their voting rights for they don’t possess government issued identification certificate such as driving license or passport.

It is pretty clear that these US states are effectively disenfranchising voters belonging to poor and minority communities. They’re not doing this because of the voter fraud problem. They’re doing this just for the sake of barring them from voting.

How can the United States go around lecturing to the world on human rights with a straight face when 11 per cent of its population stands at a risk of being disenfranchised?

It’s time America stopped throwing proverbial stones at others’ glass houses and righted its own wrongs.

Click on the link to read the full article.

[vishvak]

anybody remember this??

think of this arsehole and his pals and you will understand every US policy that was/is ever made that includes India.


[img]>>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cjk_zkvWUAAfNlk.jpg:large[/img]

You cannot generalize this. Nixon was extremely anti-India and Pro Pak as Pakistan opened up China for him. Kennedy on the other hand was very pro-India and wondered why Nehru was rejecting his overtures and not seeing the communist threat to the north.

Do you remember NSG formed *after* 1974 nuke tests and still not including India a nuke power. So what's the need ofj being a racist or anti-India when access denial is formalized - no reasons given?

The strategy is to deny and degrade capabilities and then entanglement in alphabet soups and alphabet water ways and alphabet air ways. Certainly not some arbitrary 30-year window.

Remember senior ISRO scientist Nambi Narayanan caught in spy scandal by local KL police and later exonerated after 10 years in jail?
link

was instrumental in introducing liquid fuel rocket technology in India in the early 1970s.
..
He and his team also developed the Vikas engine used in many ISRO rockets, including the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle that took Chandrayaan-1 to the moon. The Vikas engine was used in the Geo-Synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle too.
He was in charge of ISRO's cryogenics division when the ISRO espionage case broke out in 1994. Dr Nambi Narayanan was arrested by the Kerala police ..
..
Surprisingly, when I met Modi, he did not utter a single word about Sreekumar. He asked me why my case is getting prolonged for so long. He said, 'I understand that it has been more than 19 years.'
I told him that it was because of the games played by various political parties that it was still going on.
I told him that it was a false case foisted by both the coalition fronts (the Left Democratic Front and the United Democratic Front) in Kerala, as was established by the CBI.
..
I think the two countries that will dominate the world in future are India and China, and his thrust on manufacturing will give us an edge over China ..

Read it all.

[schinnas]

vishvak-
Cold war was over long ago and there was no need for a contain India strategy anymore but US stupidly persisted with it until near end of Clinton period. Now with clear evidence of Chinese plans for a unipolar world (with China as the pole) US is waking up to reality and wants to befriend India. Also, India's rise in terms of economy and IT and its continued strong national integration is changing the perspectives in the West.

The question here is not whether US and Western powers had a contain, split and diminish India strategy for decades. But it is whether US and the west are genuine in turning the relationship around and how we go about it in the light of our Strategic concerns and ground realities.

[NRao]

^^ SSridhar sir, please check out Swarajya, they have been politely holding a mirror to the great khan. Will post the article in the understanding thread as well.

Voting Rights Of Minorities Under Threat In America - Swarajya

It seems the world’s self-proclaimed oldest democracy is not doing a great job in protecting the full citizenship rights of its minorities.

As it turns out, in Texas alone, more than 6 lakh people don’t have the form of identification required to vote, according to a federal court. In other parts of the country the figure is quite disturbing: 11 per cent of Americans risk losing their voting rights for they don’t possess government issued identification certificate such as driving license or passport.

It is pretty clear that these US states are effectively disenfranchising voters belonging to poor and minority communities. They’re not doing this because of the voter fraud problem. They’re doing this just for the sake of barring them from voting.

How can the United States go around lecturing to the world on human rights with a straight face when 11 per cent of its population stands at a risk of being disenfranchised?

It’s time America stopped throwing proverbial stones at others’ glass houses and righted its own wrongs.

Click on the link to read the full article.

What about Super Delegates, from the Democratic Party?

That mechanism disenfranchises every citizen that claims to support that party.

Agnostic.

Every society has the same set of problems. Castes too.

[arshyam]

<snip>Every society has the same set of problems. Castes too.

Why this khujli to justify saar? Oh, and the usual "caste" counter. But but, you have forgotten its fellow traveller, aka "hyooman rights"

[Kashi]

^^ It's not just him. The comments section too has it's fair share of like-minded views.

[krishna_krishna]

+1 Vishwak, arshyam. Deep state massa dalal's would be dalals only what else do you expect hain ji ?

All the massa pasand, love lost chaddi friends who believe (or think) "Cold war was over long ago and there was no need for a contain India strategy anymore but US stupidly persisted with it until near end of Clinton period. "

All I say is this look at near term, paki funding, equal equal with napakis in the near past, no clear deal, frisking of ex president who happened to be our mizzile man (law is law onlee for common citizens as well as sdre presidents) , ngo funding ityadi.

Still who believe that was past , take a peek at future:

Which so called friendly host would do their to their guest PM with whom they intend to have defining partnership/natural partnership/chuddi buddies etc on the day they are to land on your shores.

“The situation does raise concern about religious freedom in India,” Colorado Senator Cory Gardner said during a Congressional hearing on India convened by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"Describing the anti-conversion laws in some states as problematic, Maryland Senator Ben Cardin, a Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, expressed concern over religious freedom in India."
See More at :
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... a-2818396/

Crux is oil and water cannot mix. Desh can only have transactional relationship with massa , but there is no harm in being friends but be transactional in purpose

[Hari Seldon]

^+1. Transactional is good.

Both sides ought to understand that theatrics and lofty rhetoric aside, that's all we can be in the foreseeable future.

[krishna_krishna]

X-post from indian naval discussion. Hats off to Rdevji for gaming massa motives and this is the execution to achieve those goals:

An American game plan for Asia ?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 60601.aspx

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ower-15120

Interestingly it looks like the US indeed has a game plan to "use" India and Australia as counters to Chinese naval expansion !!!!


and the Australian subs are useful to keep India in check , and India by virtue of investing huge resources on aircraft carrier will be hobbled in its underwater force !

The US will have its cake and eat it too .. the tom tomming of its "help" to India is indeed not without some deviousness on its part

[SSridhar]

In order to defeat the Cold War enemy, USSR and to take revenge, the US befriended Communist China and went overboard with propping it up. Of course, the USSR was dismantled and its remnant Russia's power was shrunk, but a bigger monster was created in the bargain in the form of China. While the USSR was only militarily posing a problem to US hegemony, the Chinese problem was more economic and increasingly militaristic too. The Americans learned a big lesson from their Chinese fiasco. They would do to India to checkmate China what they did to China to checkmate USSR but would keep more stringent checks and balances in every sphere, economic, military, diplomatic et al.

[arshyam]

^^ mostly because we are an open (and sadly, trusting) society, when it comes real politik. If we don't watch out, massa will easily run rings around us.

Krishna_Krishna saar, oil and water is a good meme to define this relationship, such as it is.

[SSridhar]

India-US sign pact on terrorist screening info - ToI

India and US signed an arrangement on Thursday for exchange of terrorist screening information, which will help both the countries in fight against terror.

Union Home Secretary, Shri Rajiv Mehrishi and Richard Verma, Ambassador of the US to India signed the agreement.

As per this arrangement, both sides shall provide each other access to terrorism screening information through the designated contact points, subject to domestic laws and regulations. It will enhance the counter terrorism cooperation between India and USA.

Both the countries face serious threats from outfits like Islamic State, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and have been collaborating with each other for years in fight against terror. Officials in government say, that US is one of the most important allies of India in counter-terrorism operations

[NRao]

What the movie ‘Weiner’ tells us about Huma Abedin

[NRao]

<snip>Every society has the same set of problems. Castes too.

Why this khujli to justify saar? Oh, and the usual "caste" counter. But but, you have forgotten its fellow traveller, aka "hyooman rights"

To let you know that it and such things exist everywhere. No use either crying or over analyzing. India, in specific, is going to outgrow all nations but China. Learn to deal with situ. Else prepare to be treated as you see yourself. You will only produce more (great) analysis.

Up to you.

[schinnas]

In order to defeat the Cold War enemy, USSR and to take revenge, the US befriended Communist China and went overboard with propping it up. Of course, the USSR was dismantled and its remnant Russia's power was shrunk, but a bigger monster was created in the bargain in the form of China. While the USSR was only militarily posing a problem to US hegemony, the Chinese problem was more economic and increasingly militaristic too. The Americans learned a big lesson from their Chinese fiasco. They would do to India to checkmate China what they did to China to checkmate USSR but would keep more stringent checks and balances in every sphere, economic, military, diplomatic et al.

I couldnt have said this better. This analysis is something that I can agree with whole heartedly. Those that pitch for concepts such as "Indo-Massa relationship can be transactional only" don't seem to realize that such a stand does not allow India the flexibility. Either they think that our politicians and baboos cannot play a shrewd game or they may think everyone else is falling for the "ally" rhetoric. India should be free to do what it wants sign any alphabet soup treaties / agreements as long as it fits into our calculations and strategic gaming. We should also understand that lobbying is a fact of life and different politicians will raise different voices (based on who their funding constituency is) and some of those noises may be anti-India and may not have the sanction of US deep state. Thats why we have some entity called RAW to figure out which of these human rights, minority rights noises have the blessing of deep state and which are by independent actors.

[Suresh S]

In order to defeat the Cold War enemy, USSR and to take revenge, the US befriended Communist China and went overboard with propping it up. Of course, the USSR was dismantled and its remnant Russia's power was shrunk, but a bigger monster was created in the bargain in the form of China. While the USSR was only militarily posing a problem to US hegemony, the Chinese problem was more economic and increasingly militaristic too. The Americans learned a big lesson from their Chinese fiasco. They would do to India to checkmate China what they did to China to checkmate USSR but would keep more stringent checks and balances in every sphere, economic, military, diplomatic et al.

When u have worked with anglo saxon,s u know they are more than capable of doing just that and that is why we have to go on our own. India has come this far without anybody,s help and will go further the same way . All these nice words like strategic allies, address to joint session of congress and most important non NATO ally are worthless , we should not fall for this. We should not create unnecessary enemies of countries who were not our enemies for thousands of years. Yes there has been major problems over the last few decades but we should try to sort these out and of course prepare militarily vis a vis china but not go looking for a fight which is not in the interest of either country.

[arshyam]

Why this khujli to justify saar? Oh, and the usual "caste" counter. But but, you have forgotten its fellow traveller, aka "hyooman rights"

To let you know that it and such things exist everywhere. No use either crying or over analyzing. India, in specific, is going to outgrow all nations but China. Learn to deal with situ. Else prepare to be treated as you see yourself. You will only produce more (great) analysis.

Up to you.

NRao-ji, did not ever know that such things existed everywhere. Wow. Thanks for enlightening this ignorant chap!

No use either crying or over analyzing.

Actually, it's you who is doing the above, readers can decide which one. In a response to SSridhar sir's post, I had merely posted an article from an Indian media outlet in tone similar to the usually pontificating ones from the west (especially the US) about poor bad India, and simply concurred that we should hold a mirror to the US's coverage. But you had to jump in and bring some 'caste' stuff just to defend the US. And when one pointed it out, you had to add even more nonsense that "they exist everywhere", "crying", etc., betraying who is actually doing the crying.

Didn't know the great khan's supporters had such a thin skin. Grow up! "Learn to deal with situ" as you put so eloquently.

[KrishnaK]

In order to defeat the Cold War enemy, USSR and to take revenge, the US befriended Communist China and went overboard with propping it up. Of course, the USSR was dismantled and its remnant Russia's power was shrunk, but a bigger monster was created in the bargain in the form of China. While the USSR was only militarily posing a problem to US hegemony, the Chinese problem was more economic and increasingly militaristic too. The Americans learned a big lesson from their Chinese fiasco.

China grew from a 500b economy, at par with ours, to a 10T one by the dint of its own efforts. The only thing the US did during the cold war was end its isolation of China helping widen the rift between the USSR and the PRC. The options that were open to China, were open to India as well. The US didn't prop them up any more than they contained us.

The US has very clearly communicated its approach to the Soviet and now Chinese threat. I'd urge you to show the US has in the past or plans for the future to check India. Trade disputes, castigating India/Modi for human rights, whether they have the aukaad to do it or not, does not constitute checking a country.

They would do to India to checkmate China what they did to China to checkmate USSR but would keep more stringent checks and balances in every sphere, economic, military, diplomatic et al.

Such is the fear of US on this forum, that you ascribe capabilities to the US that it just does not have. China and India cannot be contained unless their behaviour puts large numbers of their neighbours and natural competitors in their enemy camp.

[chetak]

Such is the fear of US on this forum, that you ascribe capabilities to the US that it just does not have. China and India cannot be contained unless their behaviour puts large numbers of their neighbours and natural competitors in their enemy camp.

It is not fear but distrust and some contempt for their selfish ways.

we don't need their fatal embrace.

[RoyG]

UCLA shooter is Indian.

[Singha]

root cause ? bad grade ? pio or nri ?

[RoyG]

Went ape-sh*t after working on PhD thesis for 10 years.

[Arjun]

murdered his prof for bad grades!! ****** moron...

[bahdada]

/Facepalm

[vera_k]

Graduate of IIT-Kharagpur (BS), Stanford (MS) and UCLA(PHd). Accused professor of stealing computer code .

UCLA gunman had accused slain professor of stealing his computer code