Bharat Rakshak

csharma wrote:Vikram Sood seems to be warning Modi about getting too close to US?

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.c ... o-us-ties/

It is indeed commendable that a man ostracised by the US until acouple of years ago is shortly going to address the US Congress and meet US President Barack Obama in a fourth bilateral.

. . . the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), rechristened the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (Lemoa), still has clauses that seem worrisome. Hopefully, the implications of the clause that will allow the US using Indian bases and ports for its own military objectives has not been lost on India strategists.

The US may have begun to abandon hyphenating India and Pakistan. But it cannot help being ambivalent about Pakistan. This will not change, however much we find US policy on Pakistan inexplicable.

Today, the Chinese assert Pakistan is their closest ally in Asia and they will stand by Pakistan. This is a message both to India and the US.

In recent years, the US has been extremely expansive in many ways when dealing with India.

India and the US may not become allies or partners. The former requires a near total commonality of interests and ethos while the latter presumes equality. None of these possibilities exists in US-India bilateral ties.

What we should, therefore, reasonably seek is a long-term understanding, or an arrangement that endures.

SSridhar wrote: Commendable indeed, but the ostracization will be back once Modi demits the office. The embers are there for us to see.

NRao wrote:However, extrapolation works very well in social sciences and sciences. In pure politics, it is good to keep that sort of info in the back pocket - one will need it for sure - but as times change so do the behavior of politicians.

Just for the record I said "lean", not "pro" India.

And, there are two things that make me predict that: 1) NO ONE can ignore India any longer (the assumption is that India *takes care of business* and does not go of on a tangent political/religious/social/whatever) and 2) Modi continuous down the path he has been following in all respects (as an example, he will throw every NGO out of the country and not care about what the US thinks)(and that is how the game is played, not continuous analysis). HC can yak and yaw, but that will not impact the "relationship" - remember the deep state? That deep state in the US is slowly waking to the fact that this is a new India that the US needs.

I think India will dictate terms. Granted the change will not be immediate (EG: we may see Italy with an upper hand on the MTCR issue). But, when the change comes everyone better watch out.

The US, for one, has recognized that (more on that later - I was going to post a more complete post on the LEMOA topic).

HC will change her color - for good. Not because she will grow to like India, but because she will have no choice.

I would, for the time being, throw those *very valid points*, used to extrapolate, out of the window. Only because (I think) there are more recent points to include in the data set.

RajeshA wrote:

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

svinayak wrote:

RajeshA wrote:

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

In many cases US engagement with India will pull India down. US media does lot of damage to India with other rival countries using US media against India.

RajeshA wrote:
svinayak guru,

Donald Trump has ensured that the left-liberal US media simply loses its bombast and its ability to talk down to other countries. Before NYT and WaPo and HuffPo can go again preach to the world, they would first have to exorcise the Trump ghost, and that itself can take many many years, even after Trump Presidency is over.

svinayak wrote:

RajeshA wrote:
svinayak guru,

Donald Trump has ensured that the left-liberal US media simply loses its bombast and its ability to talk down to other countries. Before NYT and WaPo and HuffPo can go again preach to the world, they would first have to exorcise the Trump ghost, and that itself can take many many years, even after Trump Presidency is over.

Good points. But Trump is not the whole of America. He has only so much ability. The culture has changed

RajeshA wrote:

NRao wrote:However, extrapolation works very well in social sciences and sciences. In pure politics, it is good to keep that sort of info in the back pocket - one will need it for sure - but as times change so do the behavior of politicians.

Just for the record I said "lean", not "pro" India.

And, there are two things that make me predict that: 1) NO ONE can ignore India any longer (the assumption is that India *takes care of business* and does not go of on a tangent political/religious/social/whatever) and 2) Modi continuous down the path he has been following in all respects (as an example, he will throw every NGO out of the country and not care about what the US thinks)(and that is how the game is played, not continuous analysis). HC can yak and yaw, but that will not impact the "relationship" - remember the deep state? That deep state in the US is slowly waking to the fact that this is a new India that the US needs.

I think India will dictate terms. Granted the change will not be immediate (EG: we may see Italy with an upper hand on the MTCR issue). But, when the change comes everyone better watch out.

The US, for one, has recognized that (more on that later - I was going to post a more complete post on the LEMOA topic).

HC will change her color - for good. Not because she will grow to like India, but because she will have no choice.

I would, for the time being, throw those *very valid points*, used to extrapolate, out of the window. Only because (I think) there are more recent points to include in the data set.

I have no doubts that India under Modi would prevail on the international scene and in looking after India's interests.

The issue is rather one of whether we prevail working against the wind or with wind in our sails. There is a whole host of "small cuts" USA can support against India, made by China, Pakistan and a host of groups within India, just to keep us down. A more friendly or even a less-obsessed dispensation in USA can simply decide to "live and let live". Overall policy is a whole lot of small pro- and anti-Indian initiatives, some overt and some covert. There is as such nothing really stopping a President Hillary Clinton from adopting many anti-Indian initiatives as long as she can keep the overall atmospherics as positive.

If the ideological bent of the President does not matter for the Office, then the Presidency is irrelevant, but the fact is that it does.

I don't see any need to be over-confident that just because India has started to shine in the world, the others would naturally move to applaud it and not to nix it.

Considering the past facts, Indians ought to try and do everything to make HRC lose the election, instead of sitting back smug in the confidence of India's rise trumping all other ideological considerations for the US President.

chetak wrote:anybody remember this??

think of this arsehole and his pals and you will understand every US policy that was/is ever made that includes India.

RajeshA wrote:For example, if there are some attacks on African-Americans anywhere, as has happened so often, the USCIRF would still bring out a report on the sorry plight of minorities and socially-backwards in India.

Rise of Donald Trump, and especially if he is elected President, takes away the right of the American Left-Liberals, even in their eyes, to preach to the world, and that would be an important step - the loss of the moral high ground, even from their perspective.

It seems the world’s self-proclaimed oldest democracy is not doing a great job in protecting the full citizenship rights of its minorities.

As it turns out, in Texas alone, more than 6 lakh people don’t have the form of identification required to vote, according to a federal court. In other parts of the country the figure is quite disturbing: 11 per cent of Americans risk losing their voting rights for they don’t possess government issued identification certificate such as driving license or passport.

It is pretty clear that these US states are effectively disenfranchising voters belonging to poor and minority communities. They’re not doing this because of the voter fraud problem. They’re doing this just for the sake of barring them from voting.

How can the United States go around lecturing to the world on human rights with a straight face when 11 per cent of its population stands at a risk of being disenfranchised?

It’s time America stopped throwing proverbial stones at others’ glass houses and righted its own wrongs.

schinnas wrote:

chetak wrote:anybody remember this??

think of this arsehole and his pals and you will understand every US policy that was/is ever made that includes India.


[img]>>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cjk_zkvWUAAfNlk.jpg:large[/img]

You cannot generalize this. Nixon was extremely anti-India and Pro Pak as Pakistan opened up China for him. Kennedy on the other hand was very pro-India and wondered why Nehru was rejecting his overtures and not seeing the communist threat to the north.

was instrumental in introducing liquid fuel rocket technology in India in the early 1970s.
..
He and his team also developed the Vikas engine used in many ISRO rockets, including the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle that took Chandrayaan-1 to the moon. The Vikas engine was used in the Geo-Synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle too.
He was in charge of ISRO's cryogenics division when the ISRO espionage case broke out in 1994. Dr Nambi Narayanan was arrested by the Kerala police ..
..
Surprisingly, when I met Modi, he did not utter a single word about Sreekumar. He asked me why my case is getting prolonged for so long. He said, 'I understand that it has been more than 19 years.'
I told him that it was because of the games played by various political parties that it was still going on.
I told him that it was a false case foisted by both the coalition fronts (the Left Democratic Front and the United Democratic Front) in Kerala, as was established by the CBI.
..
I think the two countries that will dominate the world in future are India and China, and his thrust on manufacturing will give us an edge over China ..

arshyam wrote:^^ SSridhar sir, please check out Swarajya, they have been politely holding a mirror to the great khan. Will post the article in the understanding thread as well.

Voting Rights Of Minorities Under Threat In America - Swarajya

It seems the world’s self-proclaimed oldest democracy is not doing a great job in protecting the full citizenship rights of its minorities.

As it turns out, in Texas alone, more than 6 lakh people don’t have the form of identification required to vote, according to a federal court. In other parts of the country the figure is quite disturbing: 11 per cent of Americans risk losing their voting rights for they don’t possess government issued identification certificate such as driving license or passport.

It is pretty clear that these US states are effectively disenfranchising voters belonging to poor and minority communities. They’re not doing this because of the voter fraud problem. They’re doing this just for the sake of barring them from voting.

How can the United States go around lecturing to the world on human rights with a straight face when 11 per cent of its population stands at a risk of being disenfranchised?

It’s time America stopped throwing proverbial stones at others’ glass houses and righted its own wrongs.

Click on the link to read the full article.

NRao wrote:<snip>Every society has the same set of problems. Castes too.

kit wrote:An American game plan for Asia ?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 60601.aspx

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ower-15120

Interestingly it looks like the US indeed has a game plan to "use" India and Australia as counters to Chinese naval expansion !!!!


and the Australian subs are useful to keep India in check , and India by virtue of investing huge resources on aircraft carrier will be hobbled in its underwater force !

The US will have its cake and eat it too .. the tom tomming of its "help" to India is indeed not without some deviousness on its part

India and US signed an arrangement on Thursday for exchange of terrorist screening information, which will help both the countries in fight against terror.

Union Home Secretary, Shri Rajiv Mehrishi and Richard Verma, Ambassador of the US to India signed the agreement.

As per this arrangement, both sides shall provide each other access to terrorism screening information through the designated contact points, subject to domestic laws and regulations. It will enhance the counter terrorism cooperation between India and USA.

Both the countries face serious threats from outfits like Islamic State, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and have been collaborating with each other for years in fight against terror. Officials in government say, that US is one of the most important allies of India in counter-terrorism operations

arshyam wrote:

NRao wrote:<snip>Every society has the same set of problems. Castes too.

Why this khujli to justify saar? Oh, and the usual "caste" counter. But but, you have forgotten its fellow traveller, aka "hyooman rights"

SSridhar wrote:In order to defeat the Cold War enemy, USSR and to take revenge, the US befriended Communist China and went overboard with propping it up. Of course, the USSR was dismantled and its remnant Russia's power was shrunk, but a bigger monster was created in the bargain in the form of China. While the USSR was only militarily posing a problem to US hegemony, the Chinese problem was more economic and increasingly militaristic too. The Americans learned a big lesson from their Chinese fiasco. They would do to India to checkmate China what they did to China to checkmate USSR but would keep more stringent checks and balances in every sphere, economic, military, diplomatic et al.

NRao wrote:

arshyam wrote:Why this khujli to justify saar? Oh, and the usual "caste" counter. But but, you have forgotten its fellow traveller, aka "hyooman rights"

To let you know that it and such things exist everywhere. No use either crying or over analyzing. India, in specific, is going to outgrow all nations but China. Learn to deal with situ. Else prepare to be treated as you see yourself. You will only produce more (great) analysis.

Up to you.

NRao wrote:No use either crying or over analyzing.

SSridhar wrote:In order to defeat the Cold War enemy, USSR and to take revenge, the US befriended Communist China and went overboard with propping it up. Of course, the USSR was dismantled and its remnant Russia's power was shrunk, but a bigger monster was created in the bargain in the form of China. While the USSR was only militarily posing a problem to US hegemony, the Chinese problem was more economic and increasingly militaristic too. The Americans learned a big lesson from their Chinese fiasco.

They would do to India to checkmate China what they did to China to checkmate USSR but would keep more stringent checks and balances in every sphere, economic, military, diplomatic et al.

KrishnaK wrote:Such is the fear of US on this forum, that you ascribe capabilities to the US that it just does not have. China and India cannot be contained unless their behaviour puts large numbers of their neighbours and natural competitors in their enemy camp.