Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jul 2013 09:25

My brother was his senior. He invited all his class mates after becoming CM.
He asked for advice. My brother told him "Do nothing that will shame us!"

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Jul 2013 13:52

Not known as corrupt., Hard one and will not take back once decision is taken. I feel he may resign if AP is divided.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 13 Jul 2013 14:03

Someone please explain. Why is it many indians in favour of state division say "Smaller states will provide better governance" - From Goa, to sikkim to tripura, all of which are "smaller states", I see no "better" governance. If anything the opposite is true. More MPs, more MLAs, more CMs more ministers.. more corruption. Yet there are states in the US that are HUGE by indian standards and have no governance issues - now someone will come back with "India is different to the US". Really? If thats the case, then thats the problem - indians are different .. they are less honest etc!

I think state division in india is a bad thing because it creates more division among people. People dislike people from other states .. mallus, gultis, blackie indians (tamils), bhayyas.. all these are insulting phrases used to portray stereotypes. Indians dont see themselves as united. Hence the "kick all northies out of karnataka" or "biharis are the criminals in mumbai" statements. Any thoughts?

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Jul 2013 14:26

Shonu wrote:Someone please explain. Why is it many indians in favour of state division say "Smaller states will provide better governance" - From Goa, to sikkim to tripura, all of which are "smaller states", I see no "better" governance. If anything the opposite is true. More MPs, more MLAs, more CMs more ministers.. more corruption.

Smaller states with lower population pool to select an elite from tend to bring the average joe closer to the governance structure by way of lesser geographic and demographic distance. Example; in Himachal Pradesh one can go to Shimla and it is so easy to walk into offices of MLAs and Ministers, which is not the case in Punjab or Haryana. The idea is to lower the average demographic size of the entities to bring sarkar closer to people.

In fact more MLAs and CMs is also good for India as it reduces centralization of power and mai baap culture. Anything in abundance loses its relatives value fast. We need many more government servants so that it becomes impossible to sustain them as royalty by the state.

I think state division in india is a bad thing because it creates more division among people. People dislike people from other states .. mallus, gultis, blackie indians (tamils), bhayyas.. all these are insulting phrases used to portray stereotypes. Indians dont see themselves as united. Hence the "kick all northies out of karnataka" or "biharis are the criminals in mumbai" statements. Any thoughts?

Divisions of states come from within and not outside. In a clash of political aspirations and egos, important issues get sidestepped.

manju · Post by **manju** » 13 Jul 2013 16:23

Shonu wrote:Someone please explain. Why is it many indians in favour of state division say "Smaller states will provide better governance" - From Goa, to sikkim to tripura, all of which are "smaller states", I see no "better" governance. If anything the opposite is true. More MPs, more MLAs, more CMs more ministers.. more corruption. Yet there are states in the US that are HUGE by indian standards and have no governance issues - now someone will come back with "India is different to the US". Really? If thats the case, then thats the problem - indians are different .. they are less honest etc!

I think state division in india is a bad thing because it creates more division among people. People dislike people from other states .. mallus, gultis, blackie indians (tamils), bhayyas.. all these are insulting phrases used to portray stereotypes. Indians dont see themselves as united. Hence the "kick all northies out of karnataka" or "biharis are the criminals in mumbai" statements. Any thoughts?

Big or small is not the MAIN issue with what is happening with Telangana. The issue how it was handled ... leading death and destruction..

Regarding the bolded segments: please try to your facts right . You are assuming too many things...take it easy!

Misra · Post by **Misra** » 14 Jul 2013 01:21

Shonu wrote:...there are states in the US that are HUGE by indian standards and have no governance issues...

i assume that by huge you mean US states in general have larger area than Indian states. governance issues are likely to be population/demographics related, however. largest states in US with their population size:

1. Alaska (<1 million)
2. Texas (26 million)
3. California (38 million)
4. Montana (1 million)
5. New Mexico (2 million)

largest US states by population:

1. California (38 million)
2. Texas (26 million)
3. New York (20 million)
4. Florida (19 million)
5. Illinois (13 million)

largest Indian states by population:

1. Uttar Pradesh (200 million)
2. Maharashtra (112 million)
3. Bihar (104 million)
4. West Bengal (91 million)
5. Andhra Pradesh (85 million)

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 14 Jul 2013 05:31

Re. the size of states, UP alone has a population that is more than twice the population of the entire country of Germany, more than three times the population of UK, and more than six times that of Canada.

In fact the current population of UP is equal to the population of entire undivided India when it came under British Raj.

How do one Chief Minister, one state Cabinet, one state Chief Secretary address the local needs of such a huge population? How does democracy deliver when an average person has to contend with the other 200 million to get his / her petition heard by his/ her Chief Minister?

Some previous Chief Ministers of UP have admitted that the state, it its current form, is ungovernable. IIRC one of them said something on the lines of “when a Chief Minister does not know all his/ her District Collectors by name, he/ she cannot exercise effective control of the administration”.

Even Mayawati seems to have come around to the view that UP has to be divided into multiple states. Mulayam hasn’t come around yet , but he does not want to deliver effective administration anyway.

In my view India should have 50 states, so that the average state has less than 3 crore people.

My Telugu friends on BRF please forgive me, but I fail to understand why the separation of Telangana from AP evokes such strong feelings on both sides. There are currently 8 Hindi-speaking states (and I think there should actually be 12). So, how does it matter if there are 2 or 3 Telugu-speaking states instead of just 1? I don’t think it will dilute the importance of the Telugu language or culture within the Indian union.

I think some BRF-ites are emotionally interpreting the secession from a state as secession from India. It is not the same.
Just to clarify, in my view, any talk of secession from India is treason and should be treated as such. But division of states is just part of democracy and, with increasing population and aspirations, we shall have to do more of it.

JMT and IMHO.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 14 Jul 2013 06:00

Kakkaji wrote:My Telugu friends on BRF please forgive me, but I fail to understand why the separation of Telangana from AP evokes such strong feelings on both sides. There are currently 8 Hindi-speaking states (and I think there should actually be 12). So, how does it matter if there are 2 or 3 Telugu-speaking states instead of just 1? I don’t think it will dilute the importance of the Telugu language or culture within the Indian union.

I think some BRF-ites are emotionally interpreting the secession from a state as secession from India. It is not the same.
Just to clarify, in my view, any talk of secession from India is treason and should be treated as such. But division of states is just part of democracy and, with increasing population and aspirations, we shall have to do more of it.

JMT and IMHO.

I think you don't understand. If center comes up with criteria and AP is divided into 10 states, I doubt that there will be objection to having 10 Telugu states. Objection is Telangana as it is to be given, at least made out to be given, because other side is argued to be made up of bad guys - BJP and Congress are all part of such propaganda. Besides that reason, Hyderabad and Water are other reasons. Non-Telangana people lost trust in giving Hyderabad to T thugs (current leaders running propaganda) or having water-sharing.

Many people believe state is being split by BJP and Congress NOT out of any genuine concern like you made out to be but for political gains. Why should Telugu people agree to be split for political gains of BJP or Congress?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jul 2013 08:40

And Telugu people were united after 7 centuries of splitting. And the INC/T movement wants to blame the the Andhras for the Telangana perception of under development.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 15 Jul 2013 02:57

ramana wrote:And Telugu people were united after 7 centuries of splitting. And the INC/T movement wants to blame the the Andhras for the Telangana perception of under development.

there was no significant feeling in favor of united AP in T when it was created. it was something that was accepted with trepidation. there was no "vocal" opposition against it, b/c the people had yet to go through the "political empowerment" phase that the Circars had gone through under an earlier phase right from the Andhra-Mahasabha/Justice-Party/Madras-State times.

in T, simply put, there was no precedent of political activism like the Circars had developed starting in the early 20th century.

and most importantly, the political activism of the Coastal Andhra had spread to the vital farming/agricultural castes which were able to rise to power.

in T, once again, no such process. it is conveniently foisted that "Telugu people" united. I say that T common man, especially the large peasant sections of the rural areas had no voice at all in the political processes. this situation was very much unlike the Circars, where people who were peasants 2 generations ago, had risen to political prominence by mid-20th century. It was predominantly these castes which were vehement to get a "united Telugu" state. also, later on, these very castes would play a prominent role in making sure that real land reforms of the like proposed by PVNR in 1971 never came through. let's not forget history so easily please.

things are not as rosy as "Telugu people uniting", as is being claimed.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 16 Jul 2013 23:01

As there are several people I would like to reply to, I am going to use only one post. So munna ji, misra ji, kakkaji ji:

While I don't disagree with the reasoning behind your replies, it is flawed. The reason is because India is a heavily corrupt country. Division of the country into sub-territories will lead to nothing but "my state vs your state" politics. It will also be used in year round campaigning to instil dislike/hatred toward each other. This is well known to me through experience. Further, as I said earlier, more bureaucrats DOES NOT lead to better governance (at least in india). This is what they'd like you to believe. It will only lead to more corruption because instead of 1 CM you know now 2, both of whom are of the same quality.

The evidence for my opinion can be seen by the fact that smaller states in india are not much better governed than larger ones.

manju ji, while you might disagree with me, I have seen/had many a conversation where these phrases were used derogatively to describe stereotypical behaviours of people form those states. This is especially true outside india. Heck, I even remember a huge slug fest on toilet paper where Andhraites were being insulted left, right and centre as gultis - the topic was something to do with US visas/software jobs.

manju · Post by **manju** » 17 Jul 2013 15:00

Shonuji

I am not denying that people have stereotypical views of other Indians and some are unabashed about exhibiting their prejudice. Such idiots are there in every society and we are not exception. Your comments give the impression that it is a norm rather than an exception.

What congress did in AP wrt T issue allowed such jerks to hijack the media highlights. The media further magnifies such events and in the end it appears as if everyone has such prejudices against fellow countrymen/women.

I think we know that is not true..

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 17 Jul 2013 15:47

It is a governance issue. Less population leads to more focused delivery of governance. However, there are other variables which have to be taken into consideration. Just dividing a state does not automatically mean it will do well.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 19 Jul 2013 02:30

A drone relays the intent deep from the beehive

Telangana looks certain -SMITA GUPTA

The UPA government has decided to honour the commitment it made on December 9, 2009 to carve out a separate State of Telangana from Andhra Pradesh, senior party and government sources told The Hindu.

“The die is cast,” a government source said, “as far as the creation of Telangana is concerned,” even though last-minute consultations continue on the ultimate status of Hyderabad and whether two districts of Kurnool and Anantapur from the Rayalaseema region should be added to Telangana to create two States, with 21 Lok Sabha seats apiece.

The key issue, of course, is to address the apprehensions of those from the Andhra and Rayalaseema regions who have, over the years, made substantial investments in Hyderabad, geographically located within the Telangana region. “Some safeguards have to be put in place,” a government source said, “to allay the fears of these people that their investments will be safe.”

One suggestion is to make Hyderabad a union territory for a period of 10 years, with land, law and order and, perhaps the civic bodies, under the overall supervision of the Lt. Governor, the representative of the Centre, as in the case of Delhi.

Three reasons, Congress sources added, eventually weighed in favour of Telangana. One, in the event of a BJP-led NDA coming to power and it announcing that it will divide Andhra Pradesh, the Congress would have to support it: it makes more sense, therefore, to carve out a new State and take the credit for something that it had announced it would do in 2009. Two, the Congress did not eventually want to be seen as going back on a commitment it had made publicly.

Three, electoral considerations: by creating Telangana, the Congress will not only ensure it neutralises the Telangana Rashtra Samiti — which would then become a partner — and deprive the BJP, which has announced its support for the T project, of an election issue, but it would also be in a position to win a majority of the 17 Lok Sabha seats in the region, along with the TRS. In the rest of the State, regardless of whether it keeps Andhra Pradesh united or divided, it sees itself in the third position behind Jaganmohan Reddy’s YSR Congress and the Telugu Desam Party (TDP). In the last general elections in 2009, the Congress won 33 of the 42 seats across the three regions of the State. The calculation is that only by creating Telangana can it minimise its losses, winning around 20 instead of 33, instead of being reduced to just a handful of seats.

The Congress’s strategy is to ensure that as few seats as possible go to the BJP as it believes that most other parties in Andhra Pradesh will find it hard to back a BJP-led government after the elections for fear of alienating the Muslims.

Now, Telangana decision will go to CWC

Meanwhile, the first step, party sources say, will be to get the decision to create Telangana endorsed by the Congress Working Committee (CWC), something that should happen before the end of the month. At last week’s Congress Core Group meeting, it was decided to have a few more meetings before calling the CWC: at that meeting, one of the participants had said that Telangana had “the upper hand” even though in politics, anything could happen.

If the CWC endorses the decision, it has to go next to the Union Cabinet from where it goes to the President, who would then send it to the Andhra Pradesh Assembly. However, government sources stressed that the approval of the State Assembly is not mandatory: it is only to elicit the “views” of the MLAs. Indeed, if a reply is not received within a prescribed time, then it can go to Parliament for approval. It is only after that is done that the various ministries will get into the act to work on the details of separation, such as cadre allocation.

Finally, the pro-T lobby in the Congress was also able to address the concerns of those who had objected to the creation of a separate State by saying it would give Maoist activity a boost by pointing out that of the eight districts in the State deemed to be affected by Left-Wing Extremism by the Union Home Ministry, four — Adilabad, Karimnagar, Khammam and Warangal — are in the Telangana region, while the other four — East Godavari, Srikakulam, Visakhapatnam and Vizianagaram — are in the other region.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Jul 2013 04:01

if T is given, INC will sweep that area in 2014. Namo will have no effect.

if it happens, INC will be doing exactly the thing that I have been most worrying about. remember, regardless of what KCR says, Telangana has a pretty strong TDP base.

this is a whole new twist.

bigger picture: recent moves of NCP to cobble a "tighter" relationship with Islamic friends in Maharastra, including giving tickets to Mullahs, now makes much more sense.

so, the Nizam returns.

it took a whole of 65 years to undo Operation Polo!

I hope I am wrong.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Jul 2013 04:08

but it also represents a great gift. that section cannot be cleaned up under the current dispensation. the respective "coastal" elites of both Andhra and Maharashtra have preferred to keep the Islamic alive to teach the "interior" a lesson, as and when it is required.

let's remember what a banned poster said. initials are AG. he slipped up during one of his more unguarded moments.

if the Deccan Subah is returning, history once again provides the Indic a chance. the negatives should be obvious. but the positives are ripe for the daring and cunning to exploit. this time, the mistake of the last PIF can't be repeated. how many chances was it? 4 times defeated, yet every time allowed to live on and be a thorn. not this time.

but the Hindus living there should start seeing the signs. it hasn't been that long since the Razakars. time to start retrenching into a more 'defensive' mode once again. until time presents the opportunity to go into offensive.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Jul 2013 05:13

it will be interesting to see how the local T elite switch their narrative once again to suit the current winds. they are experts at it.
who knows, there are whispers that the old records and lessons of the elites are still safely kept locked up. perhaps, they are dusting those old shelves and notes already. people here who've roamed intimately or have ancestors who did so, with certain "caste" elite in T should know where the dirty secrets and "tips" are still kept stored in the clan localities.

maybe that's why even in US, descendants of those sections insist absolutely "what is there to go back to India? it's going to the dogs. I am happy here, and so are my kids and family." part of the reason is that they've lost the rural strongholds. But I've always sensed there was more to the story. they still receive "messages" of the current scenario and recent "protestations" from some of the people I know have been in the direction of "abandon ship"/"better to get out while you still can"/etc.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 19 Jul 2013 06:30

Let us hope it's BJP who occupies the space evacuated by AGP.

Assam's 'people's party', beaten by the voter, now battered from within

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/assams- ... n/1143703/

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 19 Jul 2013 06:34

I agree that giving T will handover T to the INC. And they can later look to YSRCP shoring up their UPA-3 numbers post poll. Should've seen this coming all along, mussay. The 3-4 seats I was hoping might be in play for BJP in AP is now vaporized. Only.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Jul 2013 10:39

See I told you people will support BJP if BJP wins ~180.

Latest proof of that:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/narendra-mod ... 20-37.html

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Jul 2013 14:13

Sushupti wrote:Let us hope it's BJP who occupies the space evacuated by AGP.

Assam's 'people's party', beaten by the voter, now battered from within

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/assams- ... n/1143703/

As long as Congress does not align with AUDF, there is not going to be huge change in Assam. Tarun Gagoi knows the game and he openly told Sonia to not venture her ideas in Assam. Sonia wanted AUDF inside alliance. Most of the rioters against immigrants are Tarun Gagoi's folks and he is the Assam's savior. However, he is also secular to get that extra vote.

BJP/AGP polarization in a state that is almost near Muslim majority is too difficult. For this to happen, congress has to make the required tactical mistake.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Jul 2013 14:25

Hari Seldon wrote:I agree that giving T will handover T to the INC. And they can later look to YSRCP shoring up their UPA-3 numbers post poll. Should've seen this coming all along, mussay. The 3-4 seats I was hoping might be in play for BJP in AP is now vaporized. Only.

If they boldly go-ahead divide the state then that is all fine as it will just settle the crap one way or other way. Politics, parties will change as time progresses.

Jan/Feb is being the tentative date for elections as opposed to April.

The plan is to just use the T stuff one more time for elections. Don't fall for it even if they again declare bifurcation of state one more time. The game plan is declare the start of the process and go for elections. First get the resolution passed in AP assembly (which is going to be huge deal). Then talk about boundaries, then talk about capitals and later put it for Parl approval. They do not want to by-pass AP assembly even though it is not necessary.

The entire game they are trying to play is bloody one. They want to first announce state and drag for seven months and inside the seven month period India will go for general election. That means they will leave the final passage to the next Parl.

Hindu, TOI are writing more pro-T stuff (planted stuff) to build the momentum that congress is really T. Indian Express is writing details most of the times of actual game plan to keep the coastal financiers inside the party.

In summary INC is rebuilding the aura of 2009 December to reap benefits. This will only help to rehash another 100 page T-thread in BR or all the internet foras.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 19 Jul 2013 15:10

Muppalla wrote: Hindu, TOI are writing more pro-T stuff (planted stuff) to build the momentum that congress is really T. Indian Express is writing details most of the times of actual game plan to keep the coastal financiers inside the party.

In summary INC is rebuilding the aura of 2009 December to reap benefits. This will only help to rehash another 100 page T-thread in BR or all the internet foras.

Muppalla ji you are spot on.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Jul 2013 20:26

People with the know of TN BJP, can they confirm who is this "Tamil Esai" mentioned in this article? http://www.firstpost.com/politics/20-co ... 70683.html

“Rajiv Pratap Rudy, Prakash Javadekar and Tamil Esai will be responsible for mobilising intellectuals,” he said.

Wiki talks about one Tamilisai Soundarrajan - daughter of Kumari Aandan (former INC): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamilisai_Soundarrajan. Is it the same person ?

Also, http://drtamilisaibjp.com/?page_id=2

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 20 Jul 2013 07:19

ravi_g wrote:See I told you people will support BJP if BJP wins ~180.

Latest proof of that:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/narendra-mod ... 20-37.html

What Mamata is signalling is that she would support BJP with some PM other than Modi.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 20 Jul 2013 09:57

Why are so many BJP and Hindu Munnani people being slaughtered in TN?

One more case in the news today. Apparently the victim was a relatively young but promising and important leader.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jul 2013 10:07

I worry for some forum members.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 20 Jul 2013 12:05

Pranav wrote:Why are so many BJP and Hindu Munnani people being slaughtered in TN?

One more case in the news today. Apparently the victim was a relatively young but promising and important leader.

When Hindu leaders are killed off barbarians will be left to rule.

The whole drama of equal equal does not work as can be seen in bakistan. Works partially rest are accused like NaMo in Gujarat where in fact law and order is much better and improvements much appreciated by people.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 20 Jul 2013 12:16

Is killing of political activists too frequent in TN and Kerala given the state if development compared to other states? Only equivalent is WB, JK. Is something amiss in my perception?

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 20 Jul 2013 13:47

Pranav wrote:Why are so many BJP and Hindu Munnani people being slaughtered in TN?

One more case in the news today. Apparently the victim was a relatively young but promising and important leader.

Pranav ji, Lot of people are opposed to Hindu Nationalists and they will stop at nothing in order to destroy Hinduism. Killing Hindu nationalists is part of the plan. As of now the plan is succeeding.

James B · Post by **James B** » 20 Jul 2013 18:59

Ticker on CNN-IBN: Cong releases CD that claims Chattisgarh CM took Rs 1 Crore bribe.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 20 Jul 2013 19:14

Violent protests after senior BJP leader hacked to death in Tamil Nadu

5 buses burnt.

Seems Amma JJ won't take protests seriously until the potential to damage is sky high. Her atitude towards muslim protests say that.

BJP and Hindu munnani should now on protests in front of the US consulate, just to get more attention from the authorities. Perhaps. Hmmph.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Jul 2013 19:54

RSS and Hindu Munnai leaders have been attacked for ages now in TN - just like their counterparts in Kerala. Setting fires to buses again a standard and unnecessary development.

Authorities including Police - probably - know the culprits, being political in nature - it will be as usual kept under wraps for as long as possible.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 20 Jul 2013 21:45

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/345 ... ition.html

Bloody hell, this is freaking unbelievable, is it modi effect, bjp, kjp, bsr and jds to go in alliance against congress. That is sure 28-0 for sure. Congress will be wiped out in Karnataka.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 20 Jul 2013 22:55

JDs is the problem as their mPs can not be trusted to be with NDA after elections if NDA does not have a outright win. But their votes may help in other seats where bjp and other parties united in their 2014 fight.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 20 Jul 2013 23:03

A better option is for KJP and BSR to merge.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 21 Jul 2013 01:14

Narayana Rao wrote:JDs is the problem as their mPs can not be trusted to be with NDA after elections if NDA does not have a outright win. But their votes may help in other seats where bjp and other parties united in their 2014 fight.

+1

Lest BJP forgets 2008 when JDS refused to honour their side of the deal (which ultimately led to BJP majority)

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 21 Jul 2013 05:22

Shonu wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote:JDs is the problem as their mPs can not be trusted to be with NDA after elections if NDA does not have a outright win. But their votes may help in other seats where bjp and other parties united in their 2014 fight.
+1

Lest BJP forgets 2008 when JDS refused to honour their side of the deal (which ultimately led to BJP majority)

Bjp also shd treat them as use and throw and give them seats only in hassan mysore mandya regions

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Jul 2013 06:12

BJP calls for state-wide bandh, demands probe by SIT

CHENNAI: The BJP national leadership has demanded on Saturday that a special investigation team be set up to probe the murder of party state general secretary V Ramesh near his house in Salem on Friday. The party has announced a state-wide bandh on Monday to protest the killing.

Ramesh is the fifth Sangh Parivar leader to be killed in the state in the last one year and the saffron party is incensed that the state police have done little to arrest the culprits in the earlier cases. Police, as of now, are clueless about Ramesh's assailants too.

BJP is raising the stakes. As they should. If they don;t act now they will be finished wherever they are out of power. Would be great if Shri Modi could himself pay the grieving families a visit and express condolences. A leader should be seen with his frontline troops who are braving the biggest dangers.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 21 Jul 2013 10:18

muraliravi wrote:

Bjp also shd treat them as use and throw and give them seats only in hassan mysore mandya regions

Where JDS is anyways tipped to win.