Indian Police Reform

[Sachin]

much of police incompetence comes from overwork and understaffing.

Quite true. Infact I feel that the political class in India really wishes to see the police remain in the same state. They are treated more like a hunting-dog which is not fed enough, and if let loose against the enemy goes and finishes him for good. The perpetual over-work and fatigue leads to frusturation and some times the police take it out on the citizens who they are to protect. The political class also finds this force as the favourite whipping boy. "Police excesses" becomes the issue, and again the police gets the blamed. Of course there also exists policemen who side up with the political class, and gets away with any crime they can do.

Watched the movie "Mumbai Meri Jaan". Paresh Rawal as veteran police ASI, that was a superb character. The mentality, the outlook towards life and society in general, very very close to real life. Have got a couple of ASI friends, and their attitude and philosophies were pretty much the same.

[RayC]

The psyche and ethos of the Indian Police Force of brutality and high handedness is not a recent phenomenon. It started from the British times, if not from the times of the Mughals.

It is worse now since there is the political patronage and the politicians also ruins any honesty and integrity that the Policemen may like to display.

Unless there is the Police Reforms, the change cannot come and it will not come overnight since the psyche is historical!

[k prasad]

Plz delete if OT or not ok....

I'm x-posting a post I wrote on my blog (http://sniperz11.blogspot.com/) about how harried the Police are

Police - Not Robots!

Every time I hear some self-righteous Human Rights activist or page 3 persona complaining about how rude and heavy-handed the police are, or about why the police are curbing their 'rights' when they check them for DUIs or breaking up parties "way too early" for their regal liking, one part of me wants to take the nearest heavy object and hurl it at the instrument from where their venom is being emitted.

Too bad that most of the time, the actual Highnesses are far away, in the cosy comfort of an air-conditioned TV studio, having been chauffer-driven there in their fancy cars, spewing dust and fumes on the policemen they are criticizing, and the poor of this land that they don't really seem to care about.

I agree, the police are quite often extremely heavy-handed. But understand their situation also. They are human and not robocops. Look at what they have to endure - low pay, shabby treatment, being tossed around at will by the netas, and almost no chance of advancement. So before you talk, try to understand.

And if you think you are qualified enough and have the right to criticize the police, I suggest taht you do the following before talking:

1. Find the busiest, noisiest and dirtiest road intersection in your city.

2. Leave the house early morning, and travel there by bus; preferably on a summer day. Carry no food or water with you. Take an unpaid leave on that day.

3. Stand at that spot for the next 10 hours, with only an hour or so lunch break. Find the dirtiest hotel in the vicinity, and have your lunch there.

4. Get shouted at by random strangers. If there is a politician around, or a politicians convoy, try and stop it or make it follow traffic rules, and watch the consequences.

5. After a 14 hour vigil at the spot, without rest (except for the lunch), and without sitting at all, except for short stretches, go back home by bus (crowded of course), and not a deluxe bus, just a normal commuter bus.

6. After reaching home, give yourself your day's salary of a princely 200 Rs. (Incidentally, this is on the higher side - a Constable usually earns less that 5000 Rs a month, not even enough for a decent house rent).

7. Do this for a week, preferably alternating between taking very long walks around dirty neighbourhoods to simulate a beat. On two days, do the beat at night. If there is a festival on those days, make ur duty stretch to 16 hours.

Now, after doing all this, you have passed the Police Etiquette and Sensitivity Test (PEST), and are worthy of spewing all the venom you have at the force.

The Police Life - not a dog's day!!

[Suyogv]

Why does politicians requires police protection?They are elected bu us so why are the fearing common people? If still they fell insecure they should arrange there own security. Even to dogs of Politicians are well treated but not Police.
Mumbai Police is good but Bureaucracy is wasting this wonderful resource

[Rahul M]

The psyche and ethos of the Indian Police Force of brutality and high handedness is not a recent phenomenon. It started from the British times, if not from the times of the Mughals.

this is an idea that always hits me whenever I read the average DDM report on police in India.
the Indian populace still sub-consciously associates the police force with the colonial force of repression. in some ways there is an iota of truth in that too.

I think we missed a trick when we didn't start afresh at the time of independence by disbanding the police force(as also many of the govt administration) as it existed then and only rehiring those who had the wherewithal to continue in the law enforcement wing of a republic(as against a colony of a foreign power).

many of the ills that plagues govt institutions today(like corruption) is the result of institutional inertia that carries on the mindset of the pre-independence times even if the original practioners are dead.

[Suyogv]

I would like to differ on that Mumbai Police was in much more better shape during British raj and just after Independence but it degraded after 1970s

[Rahul M]

of course individual departments would have had varying ethos and so on.

FWIW, calcutta police was at a time considered the best in the world and pioneered many forensics technologies. fingreprint analysis being one of them.
as a purely crime fighting force they were certainly capable but a certain amount of apathy and even antipathy towards commoners was always there. in brit days police could be ham handed and even brutal if that solved the law and order problem, even if a few innocents were harassed it didn't matter.
this is certainly not the mentality you would want from today's law enforcement officials.
sure, they got the job done but at what cost ?

remember a story from pre-independence times that may illustrate this point:
a certain police thana had a tip-off that one panch-kori (means 5 cowries) was involved in a petty theft that had occurred recently. when the daroga went to his house, the said person wasn't there, so he promptly arrested two of his younger brothers (teen-kori (3 cowries) and du-kori (2 cowries)) to make it panch-kori !!! (this is a real incident, I kid you not ! )

panch-kori finally gave himself up after some days following which his brothers were released.
obviously the police succeeded in apprehending the alleged thief but would such a method be acceptable today ? (one of the brothers was a juvenile IIRC)

[Rahul Mehta]

Baljeet: In Bihar, UP if you have muscle power, you are packing heat and have few pehlwan's with you as body guard, you automatically become "Muhallay ka dada".

Sachin: I was just wondering how the British managed to keep these "pehelwans" and other busy-bodies in firm control. I don't think Bihar and UP were law-less places during the Raj. My understanding is that this rot crept in only after we got our azaadi, and it was a downwards spiral all the way.

During British Raj, the Jury System was used and was effective to get small time violent gangsters (pehalvaans) convicted and imprisoned. The local level open daadaagiri is a product of nexuses of local criminals with local judges, local IPS etc which grew only after Nehru and SCjs killed JurySys in 1956.

How does judge system promote gang-ism? I will take some relevant portion from my manifesto

====

How career crime increases in judge system due to cross-nepotism

Consider a mid-level career criminal with a gang of 50-100 criminals. He may be operating in some 5-10 areas. Now to sustain their operations, he and his gang members would need to pay monthly bribes to many MLAs, MPs, police officers, other officers, government lawyers, judges etc and would also need money to hire lawyers, mercenaries etc on time to time basis. All this, means a monthly FIXED COST of lakhs of rupees. Now such career criminal CAN NOT always get all costs from just 5-10 victims. So almost always, a gang of career criminals has to victimize 100s of victims a month. In short, a career criminal and his gang-member has to commit 100s of crime a month. Out of so many crimes, some 20-30 of victims would end up filing complain in the courts. This would generate some 300-400 court cases per year.

In the judge system, say 1000 cases that get filed in 4-5 years against that ganglord and his gang-members. All these cases will go to just 5-10 judges. So in order to delay the case to frustrate the witnesses or get outright acquittals, the gang leader has to cultivate nexuses with ONLY 5-10 judges.This is more than easy as every judges as relatives who practice in the same campus. If the ganglord manages to cultivate nexuses with 5-10 judges, and he can manage an acquittal/delay in 99% cases. Thats easy, and happens all over India.

In the Jury System, each of the 1000 cases will go to 12-15 DIFFERENT Jurors, randomly chosen from the district, state or nation. So these 1000 cases will go to 12000 to 15000 district, state or nation. So to get acquittals in 1000 cases in 5 years, the gang leader will need to cultivate nexuses with 12000 Jurors. To get 10% acquittals, he needs to form nexuses with 1200-2000 Jurors. This is logistic impossibility.

IOW, since a large number of cases in Indian courts are resolved by a small number of individuals (i.e. judges) the career criminal have cultivated nexuses with judges' relatives and are having a field day. While West uses a very large number of individuals to resolve court cases, which makes establishing nexuses difficult to the extent of impossible. So many career crimes, such as extortion, in West have vanished.

-------------

Rest of the chapter is relevant to crime problem, but outside the scope of the thread. Those who are interested may see http://rahulmehta.com/improve_courts.htm#a_0008 for details

=========

See also topic-3 of http://rahulmehta.com/improve_police.htm

Coroner’s Inquest (or Coroner’s Court or Coroner’s Jury)

Why is police of West much less corrupt and atrocious than that in India? Well, lets ask this question differently. Since when did corruption and atrocities in Western police start decreasing? In around 800 AD, the citizens of UK were able to force King to conduct Inquest (i.e. Inquiry) every time a policemen was involved in death of a common or a major crime. In case of death, the Inquiry was compulsory and in case of other allegations, like beating or bribery, it was optional. The inquiry was conducted by King’s officer who almost always had nexuses, relation with local police chief and other policemen, and so inquiries used to be farce. The situation is similar to today. Almost always, when there is a death in police custody, an inquiry is conducted by Magistrate or higher raking authority such as District judge or sometimes commission of retired HCj. But the in-charge of these inquiries often have nexuses with IPS and so nothing serious happens. The inquest was called Coroner’s Inquest, the word Coroner meaning Crown i.e. the King.

The true activists of UK around 1000 AD realized that if the inquiry is headed by officer appointed by the King, such inquiry is nothing but farce. So the activists forced the King to make a change --- the inquiry was not headed by King’s officer any longer but by 6 to 12 citizens chosen at random from the district’s adult population. The Jurors would give one of the three verdicts on the accused policemen’s actions --- justifiable, excusable or criminal. If the Jurors vote his action as criminal, he is almost always expelled and subsequent trial decides prison sentence. The sentence is decided by a next formal Jury Trial. In the inquest, the Jurors are allowed to ask questions and any citizen is allowed to speak, even if he is not a direct witness. IOW, the Coroner’s Inquest by 1000 AD in UK was no longer an Inquiry by Crown, but it was Inquiry by the Citizens. This Citizen’s Inquiry was the turning point in behavior of policemen,

Now it was no longer possible for policemen to have nexuses with those in-charge of inquiry or their relatives, and these in-charge were 12 citizens chosen at random from a population of 1000s or lakhs. So policemen before committing any atrocity would think ten times and the citizens in-charge were not likely to show much mercy borne out of nexuses.

What do intellectuals of India say about this procedure of “Inquiry by Citizens”? Well, The intellectuals of India have openly refused to even inform their students about this procedure !! Lest they would demand for this procedure. The intellectuals oppose “Citizens’ Inquiry” as this would reduce elitemen’s hold over policemen, and so policemen would commit less atrocities on commons if and when elitemen need. So the intellectuals, who are all agents of elitemen, opposed this Citizens’ Inquiry procedure. After all, information about choices can create a demand for choices. And instead they have filled poison in the minds of students that Indian citizen is a crook, irrational, nutcase, foolish, casteist, communalist, uncivilized, cruel etc and so must not have any such powers. So even in case a student learns about this procedure, he will most likely reject it due the anti-citizen poison intellectuals have filled in their brains by the intellectuals.

Sadly, due to the intellectuals disinformation and brain-washing, the non-80G-activists did not demand any procedure like Citizens' Inquiry and so police atrocities are rock high in India. And corruption is proportional to atrocities i.e. more the demand for money, more the atrocities policemen commit, and the main reason they have to beat up people is to extort bribes. The West using Citizens' Inquiry procedure zeroed atrocities and so corruption also reduced. (see here.

================

As of today, the important-est reason why IPS is corruption-e-king is because we commons dont have procedures to expel District Police Chief. In US, a large number of District Police Chiefs are elected and rest are appointed. Election doesn't make a zilch of difference. But appointed or elected, commons in US have formal or informal procedures by which they can expel District Police Chief if he is corrupt or defunct. So a District Police Chief in US keeps a control over his greed and also forces his sub-ordinates to reduce bribes. Whereas in India, we commons dont have procedure to expel District Police Chiefs. Which is why over 90% of District Police Chiefs take bribes as if there is no tomorrow. And they dont bother their sub-ordinates when they fleece us commons.

.

[Sachin]

Unless there is the Police Reforms, the change cannot come and it will not come overnight since the psyche is historical!

There have been various Police Reform committees (which consisted of capable police officers, judges etc.) which have been giving reports after reports. But nobody (especially) politicians seems to be in a mood to go through it and implement the changes. There have been other committees which have given good findings on replacing old British-era Laws and Acts to more modern and practical Laws/Acts. The sad truth is that nobody really wishes to see the police perform in a more professional manner. Corrupt politicians along with corrupt police officials are pretty much fine with the present system. At times courts intervene heavily, and then we can see some knee-jerk reactions.

about how harried the Police are

This is quite true. Add to it, they find it very tough to get leaves and even have some sort of a decent family life. Many of them soon land up having chronic diseases, and most of them take to heavy drinking etc. It is only very few states which are even thinking of bringing an 8 hour shift kind of a work routine. But there again if the need arises, they have to report back to work.

I think we missed a trick when we didn't start afresh at the time of independence by disbanding the police force

When we gained Independence, we were not willing to shun all the existing systems and infrastructure the British gave us. Unlike folks in USA, who drafted every thing based on their needs, or netas did not have the where-withal to overhaul the systems. The bureaucracy, the police etc. functioned well, and all it required was our netas to subvert the system to suit their agendas well. The netas used the police the same way the British did.

of course individual departments would have had varying ethos and so on

Of course yes, and comparing one police department with the other may not lead us any where. And every one does consider his/her state police as the best . But then every state/city police do have some niche skills.

[Rahul M]

And every one does consider his/her state police as the best

do they ?
I think mine is one of the worst !

best in India would be mumbai and delhi IMHO.

[Rahul Mehta]

There have been various Police Reform committees (which consisted of capable police officers, judges etc.) which have been giving reports after reports. But nobody (especially) politicians seems to be in a mood to go through it and implement the changes. There have been other committees which have given good findings on replacing old British-era Laws and Acts to more modern and practical Laws/Acts. The sad truth is that nobody really wishes to see the police perform in a more professional manner. Corrupt politicians along with corrupt police officials are pretty much fine with the present system. At times courts intervene heavily, and then we can see some knee-jerk reactions.

The problem with our police system is that --- it is un-British and un-American. The problem is NOT that our police is British.

===

Please see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroner

Any person aware of a dead body lying in the district of a coroner has a duty to report it to the coroner; failure to do so is an offence. This can include bodies brought into England or Wales (for example, when there is a death in the military abroad the body is returned to RAF Brize Norton and so is dealt with by Oxfordshire Coroners Court). The coroner has a team of Coroners Officers (previously often an ex-policeman but often now from a nursing or other paramedical background) who carry out the investigation on the coroner's behalf. On the basis of the investigation, the coroner decides whether an inquest is appropriate. When a person dies in the custody of the legal authorities (in police cells, or in prison), an inquest must be held. In England, inquests are usually heard without a jury (unless the coroner wants one). However, a case in which a person has died under the control of central authority must have a jury, as a check on the possible abuse of governmental power.

===

IOW, British policemen knows that if someone dies in mysterious condition, the Jurors may or will almost surely be called to examine the CoD (CoD = cause of death). The Coroner's Jury also has power to ask question to all the policemen involved or connected with the death. In the end, each Juror says one of the 3 words about policemen's conduct Justifiable, Excusable or Criminal. If majority Jurors says the word 'Criminal', then there is no such law, but traditions mean that the guilty policemen will be immediately fired. In India, we did not copy this Western method of Coroner's Jury to control policemen. Which is why many of our policemen are so corrupt and atrocious.

See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroner%27s_jury
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... oners-jury

===

US also uses the word Coroner, even though the word Coroner means "belongs to Crown" in old English !! And words "Coroner's Jurors" is also misnomer as Jury comes from commons and not from crown or nobility. All this gyaan apart, Policemen in West improved ONLY after this Coroner's Jury System came in West, first in England in about 1000 AD. In India, there is one and only one political party demanding Coroner's Jury System. Other parties, judges, buddheejeevies etc have not shown any interest in allowing commons to have any say over police dept.

[Suyogv]

And every one does consider his/her state police as the best

do they ?
I think mine is one of the worst !

best in India would be mumbai and delhi IMHO.

Rahul Sir under which Police force do you come? I don't think Delhi is best I think Bangalore or Chennai is Best with Mumbai with a tie. I think all Police person are trying to work Honestly. No one is happy with corruption but change in system will take time. Already change is inecated in Police force let us hope for best

[Rahul M]

one of the commie lands.

[Suyogv]

one of the commie lands.

Hmmm In Kerla or WB
My Guess 90% WB becaue Rahul is not that common name in Kerla but its common in Northern part. For eg Rahul Bose I am right?

[Tanaji]

BTW, the Coroner does not have a scope limited to deaths in police custody alone. It applies to all deaths that are "violent, unnatural, or of sudden and unknown cause."

Its probably a good idea to have coroner inquests in India for judicial deaths, but Rahulji, what prevents the people of the jury from being corrupt? Given that our society is corrupt from top to bottom and bottom to top, what prevents this whole jury system from bring corrupt?
Arent you just increasing the NBJP pool to NBJPJ?

[Rahul M]

suyog, I'm from kolkata.

why I consider those to be the best is because they have to deal with some of the most well organised gangs(mumbai) and a very crime-prone region (delhi, probably due to UP being nearby) not to mention powerful political mafia.
that there is still some amount of law and order in those two cities is I believe a glorious testament to the competence of these two forces.

[Suyogv]

suyog, I'm from kolkata.

why I consider those to be the best is because they have to deal with some of the most well organised gangs(mumbai) and a very crime-prone region (delhi, probably due to UP being nearby) not to mention powerful political mafia.
that there is still some amount of law and order in those two cities is I believe a glorious testament to the competence of these two forces.

WOW you belong to Tramland and Metroland
Mumbai Police no longer deals with Gang sinceGangs no longer exists. Delhi police has pirority (Pirority for weapons etc) But still there efficiency is low.
Kolkata is best in Estern India.

[Rahul M]

Mumbai Police no longer deals with Gang sinceGangs no longer exists.

you mean D-company et al are no longer active ?
that is news to me.

Kolkata is best in Estern India.

sure !
with bihar police a close second !

[Suyogv]

No D company All Dawood Ibrahim gangs people went to Dubai. Naik, Pujari, Gavli gang all are finished. (There are few stupid teens who makes fake call in name of Dons and get Busted within 24 hrs) In past 6 year not a single encounter happened (except for 26/11) Major crimes happening in Mumbai are economical frauds, Murders due to extra maternal affairs that's all. Its a peaceful city. I may sound crazy But I really miss those gang war days. During that period almost 4 goones use to die But not a single Police man not get injured

Police exists in Bihar?

[ramana]

RayC, According to Hugh Tinker the ex BIA, ICS and Oxford don on India, the Indian Police was based on the Mughal Zabardasti system of kotwal/darogas and the Royal Ulster Constublary(RUC) both of which are occypying forces police system.

I think after 1947 the chance to reform the police system to make the citizens feel they are part of the people was given a toss due to the expediences of the government. The INC wanted to establish its writ all over the country and that happened only with IPS/IB help.

Rahul Mehta is right about the jury systems. However per my knowledge the difficulty was to find twelve jurors who understood the situation and it was felt with the three tier court system (local, High and Supreme court) the juror system could be dispensed with as there were checks and balances. The jury system was bogging down the court system. So it was an effciency issue. The flip side is it has totally divorced the citizenry from the judicial system as due to lack of education they felt aleinated and were cuaght in the neta babu judicary pandu loop.

[sum]

Rahul Mehta-ji,
welocme back.

Missed your posts on the NBJPRIE (dont remember it fully . Neta , Babu, Judiciary is all i remember ) nexus.

[Rahul Mehta]

Rahul Mehta-ji, welocme back. Missed your posts on the NBJPRIE (dont remember it fully . Neta , Babu, Judiciary is all i remember ) nexus.

Thanks. And how dare you forgot Nbjprie ? Llooks like I did not make enough efforts to push that down your throat. Nbjprie means Neta-babu-judges-pandu-regulator-intellectuals-elitemen. And please dont forget it ever again. Or else ...

---

Rahul Mehta is right about the jury systems. { AWMTA } However per my knowledge the difficulty was to find twelve jurors who understood the situation and it was felt with the three tier court system (local, High and Supreme court) the juror system could be dispensed with as there were checks and balances. The jury system was bogging down the court system. So it was an effciency issue. The flip side is it has totally divorced the citizenry from the judicial system as due to lack of education they felt aleinated and were cuaght in the neta babu judicary pandu loop.

In Jury System, there is never ever a difficulty in finding Jurors. The 20-30 citizens chosen at random followed by some filtering, so that 12 are left makes the Jury. Thats is the very essence of the JurySys - random selection from entire population so that probability of nexuses are minimized to almost 1 in millions. The Jury System is FASTER than judge system as each Jury has only one case and so same case goes from 10am to 5 pm and so judgments come within 4-5 days. In US, most Jury cases end within 1-2 weeks after 1st hearing.

The reason Indian judges in 1950s opposed JurySys was : JurySys reduces judes' influence as well as incomes of their relative lawyers. After all, if judgment is to be given by Jurors and not judges, clients would not give hefty sums to the relative lawyers.

Further, as laws in 1950s became anti-landlord, the landlords had no option but to use criminals to beat landless from going to courts. Now consider following scenarios

• Say a landlord has 50 criminals who are beating landless and trying to stop them from using land reform laws.
• There would 100-200 cases per year against these criminals.
• To get acquittals, in JurySys, the landlord will have to bribe 1200-2000 Jurors a year which is impossibility.
• But in judge system, the landlord needs to manages only 5-10 judges a year, which is possible.

So landlords were vehemently against JurySys. And back in 1950s, much of the judocracy and netadom consisted of landlords. So Nehru et al killed JurySys in India so that landlords can prevail over the landless. All the excuses they made - inefficiency, cant find right Jurors etc - were lies.

The death of JurySys in India has created a royal disaster that puts the British to shame. In 1870s, Britishers admitted that British officers will become robbers if they are given complete control of courts. Which is why Macaulay created JurySys in 1870 IPC. Time has shown that Indian judges and Indian MPs of 1950s were more despotic than even Macaulay. They killed JurySys so that they can have tighter control over commons. In 1950s, there were 3 agencies to check violence in pandudom - Jury, judge and Ministers. The judges and MPs killed JurySys and so only judge and Ministers were left. The pandus had a field day. All they need to do is to give hafta to the handful of Ministers and give favors to judges and their relative lawyers and bingo - they can walk away even after killing 100 in custody and extorting any amount of bribes.

Today, every PI , DySP has judges' relative lawyers on his speed dial. If PI or DySP is facing any problem in court, he can call relative lawyers and get away. In return, PI and DySP help relative lawyers by messing up prosecution so that the clients of relative lawyers get away. This symbiotic nexus between policemen and relative lawyers proves that so called separation of power does not exist anymore.

The JurySys and recall of District Police Chief are the only known way to control policemen. Despite the royal mess in pandudom, all eminent intellectuals have opposed JurySys/recall and insist that same corrupt and nepotic judges should be allowed to run the show and recall should not be there. This only shows their despotism, oligarchic and anti-democracy mindset. And these intellectuals have hijacked the media and textbooks, and so non-80G-activists do not get information about JurySys/recall. And so problem goes on.

[ASPuar]

Murders due to extra maternal affairs

[ASPuar]

RayC, According to Hugh Tinker the ex BIA, ICS and Oxford don on India, the Indian Police was based on the Mughal Zabardasti system of kotwal/darogas and the Royal Ulster Constublary(RUC) both of which are occypying forces police system.

I think after 1947 the chance to reform the police system to make the citizens feel they are part of the people was given a toss due to the expediences of the government. The INC wanted to establish its writ all over the country and that happened only with IPS/IB help.

Rahul Mehta is right about the jury systems. However per my knowledge the difficulty was to find twelve jurors who understood the situation and it was felt with the three tier court system (local, High and Supreme court) the juror system could be dispensed with as there were checks and balances. The jury system was bogging down the court system. So it was an effciency issue. The flip side is it has totally divorced the citizenry from the judicial system as due to lack of education they felt aleinated and were cuaght in the neta babu judicary pandu loop.

Indeed, there was a famous case in Mumbai in the 1950s which led to the ditching of the Jury System. A parsi naval officer was being tried for the killing of a Mumbai business man who was carrying on an affair with his wife. The jury, consisting of parsies, acquitted him, in the teeth of the evidence. He later emigrated to Australia. It was thereafter decided that the jury system will be dispensed with.

Entirely agree that the Indian policing system relies on a feudal, almost paramilitary form of organisation structure. It is not a civilian police force, in the real sense of the words. It is a force of oppression, which is why we have "officer" ranks in the police forces (which is a phenomenon unknown in the US, UK, Australia, Germany, and almost any other developed world policing system). All policemen in most countries start from the bottom of the ladder and work their way up. It is only in India, where we have three layers of entry (SI, DSP, IPS). An extraordinarily 'raj' way of doing things, and allowing for little accumulation of experience of real policing work by the supervisory level, viz. IPS, and lack of motivation for much other than corruption, for the disenfranchised lower levels.

[RayC]

Indeed, there was a famous case in Mumbai in the 1950s which led to the ditching of the Jury System. A parsi naval officer was being tried for the killing of a Mumbai business man who was carrying on an affair with his wife. The jury, consisting of parsies, acquitted him, in the teeth of the evidence. He later emigrated to Australia. It was thereafter decided that the jury system will be dispensed with.

It was the Syivia Nanavati, wife of Cdr Nanvati case and the businessman was a chap called Prem Ahuja.

Ahuja when asked by Nanavati whether he would marry his wife, Ahuja had said - Do I have to marry every woman I sleep with?

Blitz ran the story and the progress every week.

[AjayKK]

The Nanavati case which abolished the jury system was a very famous one. Blitz, then the most selling paper was lobbying behind Nanavati. Karanjia being close to Krishna Menon pulled a lot of strings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._M._Nana ... aharashtra

The weekly tabloid Blitz, run by R. K. Karanjia, a Parsi himself, publicised the story, ran exclusive cover stories and openly supported Nanavati, portraying him as a wronged husband and upright officer, betrayed by a close friend. Blitz painted Nanavati's image, as that of a man representing the ideal middle class values as against Ahuja's playboy image, that symbolised the corruption and sleaze of the bourgeois. A copy of Blitz during the trial sold for Rs.2/- per copy, up from the normal rate of 25 Paise or 0.25 rupee

HT ran a long special feature on this trial.

Link

[dinakar]

best in India would be mumbai and delhi IMHO.

Disposal Of IPC Cases By Police During 2007
Disposal Of IPC Cases By Courts During 2007
Equipment And Transport Support During 2007
Look at these statistics .....

[Avinash R]

In past 6 year not a single encounter happened (except for 26/11)

Dont have time to search and post all encounter deaths but they are continuing. Gangs just dont disappear after their boss runs away to other countries. They continue their criminal activities extorting money from business, be it from buliders or from paanwallas and using that money to run do number ka business.

Absconding goon, accomplice shot dead in Mumbai
Thursday, February 05th, 2009 AT 10:02 AM

Pune crime branch sleuths and Navi Mumbai police in a joint operation, shot dead dreaded gangster Mobin Isak Shiekh and an unidentified man in an encounter at Taloja in Navi Mumbai on Wednesday afternoon.

Shiekh had been released on parole in January 2008. He was involved in 18 crimes. He was supposed to present himself at Yerawada jail on July 25, 2008. However, he absconded.

Recent encounters
Absconding history-sheeter Robert alias Rahul Salve was killed in an encounter at Bhosari in August 2008. He had 42 crimes registered against him in Pimpri, Nigdi, Wanowrie, Khadak and Vishrantwadi.
Santosh Lakshman Ovhal (35) was killed in Kothrud in August 2008. He was absconding for two years and had 24 cases registered against him.

[k prasad]

remember a story from pre-independence times that may illustrate this point:
a certain police thana had a tip-off that one panch-kori (means 5 cowries) was involved in a petty theft that had occurred recently. when the daroga went to his house, the said person wasn't there, so he promptly arrested two of his younger brothers (teen-kori (3 cowries) and du-kori (2 cowries)) to make it panch-kori !!! (this is a real incident, I kid you not ! )

panch-kori finally gave himself up after some days following which his brothers were released.
obviously the police succeeded in apprehending the alleged thief but would such a method be acceptable today ? (one of the brothers was a juvenile IIRC)

Actually, it still happens today, and quite extensively too Rahulji... Police dont find crook, police capture his siblings or harass parents...

[Suyogv]

In past 6 year not a single encounter happened (except for 26/11)

Dont have time to search and post all encounter deaths but they are continuing. Gangs just dont disappear after their boss runs away to other countries. They continue their criminal activities extorting money from business, be it from buliders or from paanwallas and using that money to run do number ka business.

I bet on that!! Not a single famous gang is operating in Mumbai.

[Rahul M]

best in India would be mumbai and delhi IMHO.

Disposal Of IPC Cases By Police During 2007
Disposal Of IPC Cases By Courts During 2007
Equipment And Transport Support During 2007
Look at these statistics .....

errr... none of the links is working for me.

could you just give me a gist of what it says ?

[Avinash R]

"Suyogv"
In past 6 year not a single encounter happened (except for 26/11)

"Avinash R"
Dont have time to search and post all encounter deaths but they are continuing. Gangs just dont disappear after their boss runs away to other countries. They continue their criminal activities extorting money from business, be it from buliders or from paanwallas and using that money to run do number ka business.

"Suyogv"
I bet on that!! Not a single famous gang is operating in Mumbai.

Could you tell more about these "famous gangs"?
I only know about infamous ones.

[Suyogv]

Could you tell more about these "famous gangs"?
I only know about infamous ones.

Famous gang were Haji Mastan, lala karim they went down in late 70s early 80s
Then came Dawood Ibharim, Abu salem, Chota Shakeel, (After Salem and Salem joined Dawood also known as Dobai gang) Then was Chota Ranjan (first he was Right hand of Bada Rajan) Chota Rajan is now in malaysia or Thailand. Naik gang is gone, Pujari gang also dead. Then remains D.K.Rao he is in Aurthur Rd jail. http://mumbaipolice.org/helpline/mostwanted.htm
Check this link for there pic Also try to get over this book "Khallaas an a to Z guide to the underworld"a glimpse into the world of Dons, gangsters and Cops. by J.Dey Can you give me name of infamous gangs active in mumbai? Since they are infamous I dont know there names

[Avinash R]

^ The names of all the gangs you have listed are THE infamous ones. By doing criminal activities one doesn't get famous but infamous or notorious.

Two Rajan gangsters killed in encounter
9 Aug 2008, 0549 hrs IST, TNN

MUMBAI: Two members affiliated to the Vicky Malhotra faction of underworld don Chhota Rajan's gang were shot dead in a police encounter at Pant Nagar in Ghatkopar on Friday.

With this incident, the number of criminals killed this year in encounters has touched 13, with 12 of them being eliminated by the crime branch.

^ Your comment on this news.

[Suyogv]

^ The names of all the gangs you have listed are THE infamous ones. By doing criminal activities one doesn't get famous but infamous or notorious.

Two Rajan gangsters killed in encounter
9 Aug 2008, 0549 hrs IST, TNN

MUMBAI: Two members affiliated to the Vicky Malhotra faction of underworld don Chhota Rajan's gang were shot dead in a police encounter at Pant Nagar in Ghatkopar on Friday.

With this incident, the number of criminals killed this year in encounters has touched 13, with 12 of them being eliminated by the crime branch.

It gives list of there crimes which were done before 2000 as I told you all gangs were eliminated in early 2000s. This news says that they were killed in 2008 it does not say that they committed sever crime in 2008. When we say that XYZ gang is active in city it means they are constantly doing one crime or another. Giving such rare example is of none importance. Also this news doesn't say that previous 12 were of organise gangs or discrete criminals. This link is not enough to say that D gang, Rajan gang are active in Mumbai.(13 criminal died in 8 months! Mumbai has witnessed around 220~270 deaths per year in 90s) Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act [MCOCA] will prevent formation of gangs in Mumbai.

[Suyogv]

I told that Dawood, Rajan, Naik, Pujari, Satam, Shakeel etc gangs are no longer active in Crimes happening in Mumbai. I didn't say Mumbai is crime free
Let me tell you one interesting fact about Chota rajan gang. This gang is also know as Desh Bhakt gang. Chota Rajan was ally of Dawood. But when Dawood did 1993 blast C.Rajan didnt like this action of Dawood and separated from Dawood. After that Rajan wow to destroy Dawood gang. C.Rajan provides RAW info of Dawood (majority of info about Dawood comes through Rajan gang) Chota Rajan gang was never involved in Narcotics business because it harms youth of India Due to all this reason his gang is called as Desh Bhakt gang. And Police (weather Mumbai Police or other Indian law inforcement agency never tried to catch him just because he is main source of info of Dawood)
NOTE PLEASE MY THIS POST IS NOT RELATD TO MY PREVIOUS POST I AM WRITING THIS POST JUST BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS INFO WILL BE INTRESTING TO BRFITES

[Mahendra]

True the D company is not operating in Mumbai, the bollywood stars pay extortion money out of love for them. Post 26/11 the mumbai police should have gone hammer and tongs against the D company but sadly that hasnt happened, a few brave men laid down their lives for nothing. All govts past and present have been hand in glove with the activities of these criminal gangs. Criminals are criminals "deshbhakt" or otherwise

[Avinash R]

Ok, Suyogv let's take you claims one at a time.

First claim : "In past 6 year not a single encounter happened (except for 26/11)"

The TOI clearly mentions on 9 Aug 2008 the death of 2 chota rajan criminals in an encounter with police.

Now you sidestep the question of whether encounters do take place by questioning the date of the crimes committed by the killed persons and the "severity" of the crimes. Both are immaterial to the question "Do you encounters still take place in mumbai?"

Now do you still stick by your first claim or do you have any changes to make in that claim.

[Suyogv]

Ok, Suyogv let's take you claims one at a time.

First claim : "In past 6 year not a single encounter happened (except for 26/11)"

The TOI clearly mentions on 9 Aug 2008 the death of 2 chota rajan criminals in an encounter with police.

Now you sidestep the question of whether encounters do take place by questioning the date of the crimes committed by the killed persons and the "severity" of the crimes. Both are immaterial to the question "Do you encounters still take place in mumbai?"

Now do you still stick by your first claim or do you have any changes to make in that claim.

1st Ok I accept that my comment was wrong about encounters.
2nd Clearly mention Chota Rajans Aid I didnt deny that.
3rd 13 encounters might be a notable for you but in Mumbai 13 encounters in not worth thats all.

[Rahul Mehta]

Indeed, there was a famous case in Mumbai in the 1950s which led to the ditching of the Jury System. A parsi naval officer was being tried for the killing of a Mumbai business man who was carrying on an affair with his wife. The jury, consisting of parsies, acquitted him, in the teeth of the evidence. He later emigrated to Australia. It was thereafter decided that the jury system will be dispensed with.

ASP,

Nanavati case was an excuse, not reason. No one is foolish to decide the fate of whole system and 10000s of cases a year based on one trial. And in fact, in Nanavati case, the Jurors acted wisely -- the officer did not deserve to die in their opinion, and so they gave non-guilty verdict. The reason, real MOTIVE, why Nehru abolished JurySys was to help the landlord elite and the MOTIVE SCjs killed JurySys was to incrase the incomes of the judges in lower courts and also increase power judges wield in the society. For that matter, every dictator always give good reasons to kill democracy, and we all know how good their reasons are.

=============

Gangs in Mumbai are less active in common public, and confine to extortion and protection from actors and builders. The gangsters also do judicial duties [:o] . eg Some 6 years ago, chee chee (aka Govinda) has habit of coming later to the movie sets. And it was only after Shri Dawoodbhai scolded chee chee and he started coming in time. Likewise, bhai log settle many disputes in construction business. Given the kind of courts we have, commerce would come to halt if bhai-giri stops or bhai-log go on strike. . So gangs are indepensible till we fix courts. And when we shall fix the courts. Looks like even God cant give dates now .