Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 08 Sep 2009 00:12

Has there ever been an attempt to codify and unify the various teachings in hindu epics and vedas. While codifying goes against the grain of hinduism do so would add another dimension making it equipped for laymen who do not have the time/luxury to go through numerous epics to distill the right ways of life. The closest we have is in the form of gita

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Sep 2009 02:21

AWMTA,So Nostradamus endorses my theory of Indic core moving to South.

there is onlee one glitch, When asked , Ramakrishna said he will return within 3 hundred years for his warrior Incarnation but will appear somewhere in North ( some where between Kabul and Delhi)and will be known by his headgear. Is this some kind of battle going in Dev Loka for spiritual dominance?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 03:06

Indic core indeed has no way but to move south. It is already moving. One of the reasons, EJ's and Islamists are desperate to expand in the south to prevent consolidation of a "Hindu" core. Both these forces act as political and potential military facilitators of foreign imperialist interests - something "p-secularists" in all their sincerity try to deny at the top of their voices. But the lines of ideological divisions are clearly indicating a future where preserving the Indic core, or any sense and semblance of "Indic nationlaism" will become synonymous with "Hindu". No one else has any stake in preserving this society with its knowledge and practice.

But, I want to see a distinct "Krishna" angle in any claimant of "Kalki"'s mantle. The narrative should not be usurped by "peaceful" spiritual "awakenists" - as that in itself is a powerful subversion of a powerful Indic meme. The "avataran" is a most potent symbol of hope and mobilization in a large cross section of Bharatyia. If that "avataran" is channelized into pure "spirituality" and "bringing peace" to the world by "good deeds" and "kindness" and observation of rituals or behaving as intoxicated in infatuation and submission to a "guru" or a personality cult - than that is not good!

Any claimant of "Kalki's" mantle must be preparing the Indic for the war which others will force on Bharat. Anyone doing anything else is a false claimant and at the least hijacking a Bharatyia meme for personal spiritual aspirations or at worst acting unknowingly as tools of the EJ or the Islamists.

All the moves indicate that countries are preparing to move on India. Pakistan may really be increasing its nuke arsenal. It can be used for many different tactical purposes. First PRC can simply be placing more of its own nukes in a tactical move to surround the north better. TSP+PRC can explode one or two in the north on occupied territory among people who are not trusted by the ruling regime - and claim either Talebs have done it or GOI has organized it. This then immediately becomes the excuse for TSPA+Taleb+militant+PLA move simultaneously from north and east into India.

PLA is increasing its dramatics in the east. This can be sign of a two pronged strategy as well as one of those proverbial "communist" power struggles. If a part of coordinated strategy to divert attention from internal crises, then the PLA is being instructed to up the ante to distract India from its western borders where PA is mobilizing forces and irregulars for action. On the internal struggle side, sections within the PLA itself can up the ante to provoke both the CCP and GOI into a military adventure.

In spite of the best efforts of IA, I am not sure it is equipped properly and more importantly that the GOI will not handicap IA actions until the last decisive and crucial moments. They have a very confused and ambiguous policy towards TSP and they do not yet have the clear target of erasing TSP a s a political entity - the only way to get rid of a permanent problem. The northern plains are vulnerable.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Sep 2009 03:31

B-ji,

Completely agree with above POV w.r.t Kalki. The next war will not be limited to Bharata-varsha, and India must be prepared. We are going to see another world war in our life times and it will be completely nuclear.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 04:23

RamaY-ji
I will email you about book! "Wings" appears most likely. But please read and judge before. I also have a book planned for you.

Mods, whoever moved the discussion from "strategic" forum - the last three para of my post perhaps belongs there. Can I move those three back?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 07:38

going back slightly off the current trends - "Political history of ancient India" places Pariskhit around 1400 BCE, but recent astronomy based calculations for the Kurukshetra war is around 3100 BCE. Has anyone tried to reconcile the two sequences of arguments?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 Sep 2009 13:10

brihaspati wrote:going back slightly off the current trends - "Political history of ancient India" places Pariskhit around 1400 BCE, but recent astronomy based calculations for the Kurukshetra war is around 3100 BCE. Has anyone tried to reconcile the two sequences of arguments?

You are referring to the disjoint between the Puranic list of kings after the Bharata war and the dating of Mahabharata?

I believe thats a open question, although as I am sure you know, it has been saught to be fixed by moving some events back in time like Buddha and Chandragupta.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Sep 2009 18:33

I am not very knowledgeable, but this is what I understood from “Purusha Sukta”.

Purusha Sukta is part of Vedas, Veda Mata/Purusha being the jnana-manifestation of the Param-brahma. Purusha Sukta is what Param describing itself. Everything that exists and non-exists in this creation is part of Param, since Param is the Truth, Omni-potent, and Omni-present. In Purusha Sukta, that Purusha/Param is describing himself that Brahmanas (the intellectuals) come from its face, Kshatriyas (the rulers and administrators) come from its shoulders, Vysyas (the business men, and gatherers) come from its torso, and Shudras (the farmers and worker class) come from its legs.

If one were to apply this analogy to say, The USA, then USA would say its Brahmins are its legislative branch and intelligentsia, its Kshatriyas are its administrative branch and army, its Vysya are its businessmen and MNCs, and the Shudras are its working class. So Chatur-Varnas exist in every being that has consciousness.

Coming to B-ji’s interpretation, the Chatur-Varnas exist even in an individual; as presented in another post

The hand brings the food to the mouth. The mouth chews it and pushes it to the next part. The digestive system absorbs the energy/essence from the food and pushes it further. The waste processing system (Liver and Kidneys) distills the final extracts and pushes the waste out of the system. The mind oversees the entire process and enjoys the whole process with the use of various senses. Who is exploiting whom and who is serving whom in this system? This is the structure of Purusha.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 Sep 2009 19:13

[*]@Brihaspati

I am not hinting at Kalki, that is too far into the distant future. I am hinting at Sai Baba, who currently in the second phase of his three incarnation period, is living as Sathya Sai Baba (now that I mentioned the name,I am sure it will attract a lot of flak) and is based in South India, has followers all the way upto South America, Africa,Far East...a really astonishing reach. He is said to be the incarnation of Lord Siva, who promised to be born in Kaliyuga to protect his followers.After completion of this mission, it is expected that there will be a Golden Age for around 10000 years, and peace will reign. After that Kaliyuga might proceed further towards its destined culimination.

Kalki Avatar on the other hand, is Lord Vishnu's last incarnation before the world is completely destroyed, and a new chapter in creation starts after that. Srimad Bhagvatam holds that Kalki will appear in Sambhal (there are two , a Sambhalpur in UP and a Sambhal in Orissa, I am not sure which is the destined place, but in Sambhapur, UP a temple has already been built to worship Kalki, so I take it that astrology experts must have destined this particular Sambhalpur is the correct place).

[*]Quoting from Srimad Bhagvatam:-CANTO 12,Chap. 2 Verse 18.

In the village of S'ambhala will Lord Kalki appear in the home of the great soul, the brahmin Vishnuyas'â ['the glory of Vishnu'].

(Verses 19-20) Mounting His swift-riding horse Devadatta, will the Lord of the Universe with His sword, transcendental qualities and endowed with the eight mystic opulences [siddhis], subdue the unholy. With His horse moving fast about the earth will He, unrivaled in His splendor, slaughter the thieves disguised in the grab of kings.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 19:44

sanjeevpunj,
what is your interpretation of the possible contribution towards the defence of Bharat and expanding it, if necessary by unavoidable bloodshed, from the existing spiritual movements that you may have in your mind? If push comes to shove, will this spiritual awakening make the followers do the needful? Or does it make them more reluctant towards any such move to roll back the "asura"?

There is a theory of "cyclical" divisions (along astrological mahadasha-antardasha-pratantyar dasha) that has subepriods of the yugas within a main yuga. By such calculations "Kalki" could come early. Some interpret "shambhal" to be in the "mystical domain" and not any real village.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 19:57

RamaYji,
most interesting comparison. People do not point out that the body of the purusha remains intact, which means we have by advaita, that the "immaculate" creations of the external hierarchies are part of maya - indulged in by the param.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 Sep 2009 20:18

@Brihaspati ji

A convergence of all faiths, willingly accepted and followed by all would provide the basic framework for infusing the masses with a strong will power to fight and oppose the Asura influences that have riddled this society.Once all indians have a single opinion about defending India against this rot,I feel we will be able to overcome all the odds.Uniting them under one umbrella is such a difficult task, only some spiritual gaint can undertake it.

I am personally well connected with the Hare Krishna movement started by Srila Prabhupada. Although very peaceful in nature, each follower of this movement is vigorously motivated by the Bhagvad Gita. Each such spiritual organisation is playing a decisive role although we cannot see the big picture. I feel only the One Supremo really sees the big picture, so there is the need to be good followers,good listeners and the need to accept One Supremo, but this is a near impossible demand from Indians, who are currently so torn up between sects ( not only Indians, people all over the world, are so sectarean today, all this Sunni killing Shia, and IRA - protestant-catholic skirmishes, have bloodied the world) God knows what other stuff that goes unreported (from countries in the Far East, South America)

As for the theories of Time, here is a short paragraph.

Based on the 100 years lifespan of Brahma, Eternal Time is almost impossible to understand in terms of the time we know.
One day of Brahma has been defined as equal to 14 manvantaras + 15 manvantara twilights=4,320,000,000 Earth years.
Each Manavantra is subdivided into Maha Yugas (71 Maha yugas per Manavantara) and each of these Mahayugas has 4 sub-divisions, and each of these is 4,32,000 Earth years)

More details are at
http://www.indiaheritage.org/rendez/article1.htm

so I wont bring them up here.

All in theory, but let us examine time compression. Imagine that time can be compressed and the Kaliyuga could end in earlier, due to the effect of such a compression. So as you suggest, Kaliyuga can be ended earlier! IF someone can compress Time.

Cheers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Sep 2009 20:25

brihaspati wrote:going back slightly off the current trends - "Political history of ancient India" places Pariskhit around 1400 BCE, but recent astronomy based calculations for the Kurukshetra war is around 3100 BCE. Has anyone tried to reconcile the two sequences of arguments?

Kaushal is doing some work and getting all the scholars to work on this. He has written about the greek synchronicity which William Jones brought in leading ot this gap. We have other non-Englsih scholars/pandits(Eg. Kota Venkatachallam) who have the Pruanic King lists.

www.indicstudies.org

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 20:43

Sanjeevpunj-ji,
I have closely watched and collaborated with many spirituality based orgs in "social" work. I have reasons to suspect that either out of necessity or because of rashtryia penetration they tend to act as diffusers /absorbers of political consciousness and mobilization at the commons levels. The "gurus" all have special "times" for the top political leaders, and yes only the "Supreme" knows what is passed on between lips and ears.

The "purely" spiritual personal quest has not yet helped us in mobilizing ourselves as a compact fighting mass. Everyday, we retreat further before the media, the historians, and the very same "politicans" who are special guests at the "spiritual" centres on the one hand and bashers of any "political" consciousness based on the Bharatyia, on the other hand. Where is the "kambukantha" that challenges these instruments of rashtryia control and successful repression to channelize and redefine the "Bharatyia" as oh-so-spiritual, doing only charity, accepting all vicious propaganda and demonization without giving back full measure - and never, ever, and this is important - never ever convert this spiritual consciousness into political and military consciousness?

No, I do not see the signs that reduces my scepticism of their possible, unknowing, but real political role in safely harnessing the "Bharatyia" energy into channels safe for the ruling elite and interested international entities.

No I was not talking of compressing time. I believe the yuga, mahayuga concepts actually serve a dual message encoding purpose as in most scriptural narratives. They encode real geological events of the formal time scales being mentioned. But the paleo-records of life, do not fit into the schema if the yugas are also taken literally in their biological aspect.

If you do look up Indian astrology, you will see, that there is a concept of subdivision of a major period into smaller subperiods which are actually done in proportion to the major period of a planet etc. You can therefore have say subperiod of Saturn within a major period of Saturn, etc. In fact we do have sa Saturn pratyantardasha in Saturn antardasha within Saturn mahadasha. A similar division is conceptually possible within a major yuga.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 Sep 2009 21:23

@Brihaspati ji,

I tend to agree with you, some disillusionment also has entered my mind due to the misinformation the press feeds to the public.The beneficiaries of this misinformation are the politicians, and I really dislike most of them. My only source of cheer is chanting the Holy name of Krishna, and I stay away from meeting politicians (there is nothing to gain from them)

I got sidetracked about the Time Compression idea(one of my pet engagements).

I do understand those Astrological terms (Mahadasha,Antardasha,Pratyantardasha etc) as I did study some Astrology way back in 1990s. It is definitely possible to have a window within this Yuga where some drastic change occurs, altering the course of Indian History.This change would be universal, it would be known to all through the media, eventually as it unfolds.This also brings to my mind the predicted Golden Age of 10000 years (I think the first prediction of this came from the lotus lips of Mahavatar Babaji). This is yet to manifest though. Before this age dawns, there will be some war, some thing.....possibly a nuke explosion somewhere, with so many butter fingered techies waiting to press the "launch" button, and some geeky Iranians trying to create a dirty bomb......

I did read that Nostradamus points to a nuke explosion (actually two of them) over the mediterrainian sea (probably one of the nukes directed at the Vatican, and probably originating from Iran, is intercepted in air before it touches the ground, while the other one falls into the sea, poisoning the fish).

After this what will ensue is easy to imagine. All Asuric existence will surely be annihiliated by the nukes that follow in wake of this outrage.Or so I imagine.

What I am really looking forward to is a all out attack by India in the western direction, but the timing of it is not a matter of imagination.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Sep 2009 21:30

Sanjeevpunj-ji,
not sure whether this will be appropriate - or allowed - but would you like to post in greater details about the predictions you mentioned (Our-Lady directly will perhaps be deemed OT!)? giving ref to texts or roots within "Indian" treatises so that stay relevant for topic? I am curious to know about predictions rom the south. I am at the moment trying tos tudy the world of "prophecy" for I am most interested in their origins and motivations as wll as political impact.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 08 Sep 2009 23:11

@Brihaspati ji

I have noted your interest about predictions for South India, and will surely post something when I have interesting data.

The most reliable source for predictions based on Hindu Scriptures is the Srimad Bhagvatam. It tells clearly about the advent of Kalki Avatar, though does not specify the time frame.I already provided the link to that in an earlier post.But no time specific predictions are made in the Bhagvatam, only general predictions. Names are mentioned, but interpreting those names would be difficult in modern terms.

In Canto 12, It also tells of the events that passed by, the 14 Moghul Emperors,the ten Sikh Gurus,the 300 years of british rule....and more about what is to come ahead..... Instead of posting the text here, I am posting the link, so you can read yourself. Please do read CANTO 12, Verse 27 to 37 specially.These 10 verses show the current and the coming periods (14 moslem rulers(Turushkas), 10 Sikh gurus(Gurundas) , 11 Maulas etc....). Here's the link.

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/downloa ... o12.html#1

While the past is full of despair, the future is full of hope, and it is epitomised by the impending advent of Kalki.

In the near future, one thing is for sure. Degradation in Politics. Self-appointed powerseeking individuals taking charge for a while, making money and disappearing.One could get a list of criminals who are now in Politics, from the Election Commission perhaps.I would consider these politicians as self-appointed, because they won elections by manipulating votes, forcing the poor voters to vote for them under threat.

Now to counteract this degradation is the main objective. Only a focussed, result oriented, and cohesive action by the Indian Defence Forces can bring about a change. I really mean it, India needs to prove explicitly to the world that it can fight back.India is the sufferer of terrorism more than any other country in the world.The current image is not worth writing about.Our politicians are weak, and tend to stick together in their weakness, collectively indecisive and they employ delay tactics to make the people forget. A military takeover of India would have done us good, had it happened soon after independence. It might do us good even today.I would gladly work for that, by joining the Military.

Had we been under military rule from day 1, discipline at least would have been enforced, and social life would be more orderly than chaotic as it is currently.The public right now is caught between Politicians weilding power over the Police and the Para-Military forces like CRPF,RAF etc , and using the para-military to supress the public.

Discipline is where India lags behind now. The press , in cahoots with politicians, is keen to befuddle the public, causing a spread of indiscipline. Today, it is a fashion to protest.

I used to work for the press, once upon a time, I gave up complying with their lies, so I gave up working for the Media. Most of the press in India does the MOP-UP job of spills caused by flubbering politicians.It has become another vicious circle.I moved on to making films for children instead.

Karan Thapar used to be my boss, strangely, the son of Lt Gen Thapar, who was the key figure in the Himalayan Blunder enacted by Nehru. Karan has a sharp mind, but he also sucks up to his political mentors, and is still far from being an independent thinker.He merely scratches the surface of freedom.Yet I do appreciate his sharp intellect.Hope he develops the urge to save India.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 09 Sep 2009 20:28

Manasvi wrote:
the Chatur-Varnas exist even in an individual; as presented in another post

Bhagavt Gita Chapter 4, Verse 13

cHatURvarnYam maYa srIsHtaM gUNa KarMa vibHagaSha...

1.The four tier system of division of humans is based on Gunas (qualities) and is a better option than the 20 tier system prevalent today. We have over 20 levels in the government, it is a shameful method of divide and rule being followed today, and a 4 tier system would be much more effective.

2. You have forgotten Mars, which rules the Kshatriya class. Mars is also the planet of war.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Sep 2009 21:23

I was asking a bit more explicitly that all the four primary "gunas" be cultivated by every individual. The gunas to be cultivated to prepare the individual to perform the roles as and when required by life and society. When attacked take up arms as a kshatryia, studying and teaching as a student and a rishi as a brahamana as appropriate at various ages, take up productive work as a shudra to feed family and social obligations, and also enegage in finance and trade as and when necesary as a vaishya.

Once they are all acknowledged to be present in each individual, claims of exclusivity based on birth become untenable, or a lifelong assignment to one even if not fixed by birth become infeasible. Also changes of "varna" are not needed. For this we do need a proper "inversion" of the Purusha shukta in the light of advaita as a rigorous justification sourced from "within".

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 10 Sep 2009 16:50

[quote="brihaspati"]I was asking a bit more explicitly that all the four primary "gunas" be cultivated by every individual. The gunas to be cultivated to prepare the individual to perform the roles ....................[unquote]

That is a very wonderful idea, it would make talented people, instead of robots.Yeah that is one of the reasons I came to this forum, to learn about the Kshatriya side of life. Thanks for coming up with that view, it is needed for a bright,prosperous,strong and effective India.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 10 Sep 2009 18:52

Well, it looks as if starting a new thread is not the right thing to do, I found that it got locked. So I am posting the same content here.This looks a more appropriate place I think. I am a noob, so need to understand what went wrong when I started a new thread.

Anyway here's the stuff that got locked.I hope this doesnt cause a flutter.

Weapons of the Pandavas.

At the end of Mahabharata, when the Pandavas returned victorious, they got together and travelled to the Himalayas, along a path that took them through many regions currently known to us as Himachal Pradesh.At one place they decided to leave their weapons and proceed higher up in the mountains to perform penance.The place where they left the weapons is known as Rampur Bushahr, established by Pradyumna,the son of Lord Krishna Himself, and is located 102KM from Simla. It can be easily reached by road.Those who have been there have seen the display of the grand weapons of the Pandavas, which occurs once every year for a period of ten days,during the famous LAVI MELA.I met one brave retired Indian Army Lt.Gen, MVC, who has fought in three wars, who told me of these grand weapons.He has seen them and he says it is an awesome sight to see.He says that the weapons are guarded by divine spirits, and no one can see them during the year, except when they are displayed publically for ten days during the famous LAVI Mela. Some priest tried to see these weapons on the sly once and he was found fainted at the doorstep of the temple where the weapons are kept. They say he saw a huge divine form guarding the weapons.

The route to Rampur Bushahr is as follows:- The distance is 102 KM. Head northwest on NH22 as you leave Shimla, dirve for half a KM and turn right to stay on NH22, and drive 101.4 KM till you reach Rampur Bushahr.You will pass through the following towns:- Mashobra, Kufri,Theog,Narkanda,Thanedar,Kotgarh,Bithal.Nirath,Nogli and finally Rampur.The road is mountainous, so drive slow and carefully.

It would be wise to request your family deity (or the One you worship) to grant you permission before you proceed on such a venture.This is the advice of elders.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2009 00:14

Gurucharan Das writes new book

Enter The Rational War

Enter The Rational War

Gurcharan Das’ new book delves into the Mahabharata to understand our moral dilemmas

Gurcharan Das, 63, is former CEO of Procter & Gamble India and author of India Unbound: The Social and Economic Revolution From Independence to the Global. His new book interrogates the Mahabharata to understand its hazy morals and its complex vision of ‘good’. Excerpts from an interview with TUSHA MITTAL

Help your self Gurcharan Das in his New Delhi home
Photo: VIJAY PANDEY

What triggered your own personal search for the meaning of dharma?
While writing India Unbound, I came to the conclusion that prosperity is spreading in India, happiness is not. That’s because of our poor levels of governance. The corruption I’m more concerned about is not that of a minister with a bribe in his pocket. It is that 1.5 million Indian school teachers are not present or not teaching. They need to feel, ‘My dharma is to be a teacher.’ Mine is a search for that kind of dharma.

Why the Mahabharata?
The Mahabharata is obsessed with dharma, unlike the Greek epics. When a hero does something wrong in the Greek epics, he gets on with it. In the Mahabharata, the action stops. The argumentative Indian takes over and there are brilliant discussions of right and wrong. I wanted to write a book that would make the absentee schoolteachers look at themselves in the mirror.

You say the Mahabharata rejects both Yudhisthira’s idealistic position and Duryodhana’s amoral view. Where does it place righteousness? How does a shifting idea of morality complicate our personal and public lives?

I don’t think the idea of righteousness is shifting. The Mahabharata sympathises with our dilemmas, when we have conflicting duties and don’t know what is right. There is ahimsa in Yudhisthira’s remorse for the war, but it conflicts with his duty as commander in chief. Or when we know what is right, but still do wrong. Yet, it doesn’t say that anything goes. It asks how we judge what is right or wrong? A child was drowning in Goa. A group of Delhi students were holidaying on the beach. One of them jumped into the sea to save the child. Later he confessed he did it to impress his girlfriend. Is that goodness? Vidura would argue that the child was saved, who cares what the motivation was. Yudhisthira may not agree. He would have jumped into the sea even if nobody was looking.

When you look at the breakdown of values today in the middle class, the corporate world and politics, do you feel the need for a more rigid code?

After 9/11 everybody feels they have a monopoly on the truth, but the Mahabharata is wonderful because it says the world is morally hazy. When a group of robbers asked the hermit Kaushika which way a man (they wanted to kill) went, Kaushika tells them. He’s sent to hell but he protests he had been honest. This conflict is very close to ours. The Mahabharata and my book present a mirror to Ramalinga Raju. Raju succumbed to fraud not because of greed, but because of a weakness towards his son, like Dhritarashtra.

THE DIFFICULTY OF BEING GOOD: ON THE SUBTLE ART OF DHARMA
Gurcharan Das
Penguin
488 pp; Rs 699

Hinduism is more open-ended about morality than most other religions, but is that detrimental?

It’s hugely empowering that in the Mahabharata no one appeals to God. The epic doesn’t trust the Vedas, or the wise men, or the king. It gives you a tremendous sense of responsibility. It says you have to depend on yourself. At first, Yudhisthira wants to do the right thing no matter what. When he realises he’s dealing with a person like Duryodhana, he changes to a philosophy of what I call reciprocal altruism, a notion of “tit for tat”. Yudhisthira realises that the dharma of a ruler involves violence. He declares war. We’ve been trying to create a sense of friendship with Pakistan for years. If the response from the ISI is another terror attack, we can’t turn the other cheek. You need the army to tackle it.

Are we today more concerned about our own actions and not so much about a greater collective good?

The defining moment of my dharma journey was this: Indra tells Yudhisthira who wants to take a dog to heaven – “but it’s not even your dog, it’s a stray dog”. But Yudhisthira insists. You realise realise this is not a book about war, it’s really a book about the difficulty of having peace in the world. You said the middle class is callous. But very few in the middle class will oppose progress of the poor. When a mother is concerned about her child’s education and not the poor, she’s doing the right thing. We need to realise that we are all self-interested and public policy needs to recognise this and search for answers on how to build a compassionate society.

‘I hope my book makes absentee schoolteachers look in the mirror and realise their dharma’

How do you read the current unravelling of the BJP, that LK Advani may have lied to the country?

I’m not sure I have the answer to Advani’s asatya. But I would say this whole Hindutva business is not a winning platform. The BJP can create a great conservative party like the Republicans in the US, the Conservatives in the UK, which can be secular and stand for policies of the right.

You have an anecdote about your secular friends saying you’ve turned saffron because you’re writing about the Mahabharata.

This is the dilemma of the liberal Hindu. I am skeptical. I see wrong things in Hinduism, but also find it attractive. On the one hand it is very offensive that the Hindu right has usurped our tradition and appropriated the Mahabharata from me. I don’t see the Mahabharata as a religious text. It’s an epic. But there’s something gone wrong with the secularists too. The Mahabharata should be read in schools and colleges, but the secularists will say how can we teach religion in schools. So both sides are as rigid and closed minded. The Mahabharata is a very rational text, reasoning out right and wrong. We have this wrong idea that we have a spiritual irrational past. We have a very rational tradition.

Something interesting is happening to Indian psyche. Its reformed secularists who are talking about Hindu epics. It might be an epic but it does have Krishna's teachings.

munna · Post by **munna** » 12 Sep 2009 01:49

Delightful, joyous and unmitigated pleasure to have a person of his stature and international experience write about Mahabharata. For good or for bad we have people writing about stuff they normally would not have. Perhaps a new rennaissance and the urge to re-position the right in India?

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 12 Sep 2009 04:23

Came across these speeches from Swami Vivekananda ... not sure how authentic the audio is though ...
http://gdhar.com/2009/02/19/swami-vivekananda-1893/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2009 09:29

One of my older friends gave me a book to read: "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism" by Linda Johnsen, 2nd Edition. Its from B&N bookstore. Its pretty good so far.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 18 Sep 2009 23:51

On the subtle art of dharma - Gurcharan Das

What blacken our days are the insistent reminders of governance failure, hanging over us like Delhi’s smog. What kind of answers can be found in the Mahabharata, which is obsessed with questions of right and wrong

Nice read

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 24 Sep 2009 15:00

The below are youtube links to a television program which brilliantly builds up a case for the existence of Indian civilizations going as far back as 10000 yrs.

Very enjoyable. Apologies if already posted.

10,000 YEAR OLD METROPOLIS FOUND PART 1 of 5

part 2 of 5

part 3 of 5

part 4 of 5

part 5 of 5

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Sep 2009 03:13

From Hindu

Free books on Lord Venkateswara

HYDERABAD: City-based Shri Designs is sending free copies of books on Lord Venkateswara written by its chief consultant T.V.R.K. Murthy (‘Vishwapathi’) to various temples in the State, in view of the Brahmotsavam in Tirumala. Interested committee members can contact him (tel 98494-43752) for details. Devotees can download the books by visiting website www.lordofsevenhills.com. –Special Correspondent

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 03 Oct 2009 02:16

Came across this:
The Arctic Home in the Vedas

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Oct 2009 02:56

Friends from Andhra, can you throw some light on the following: Divya Maha Kala Jnana, ("Divine Knowledge of the Time" written by Shree Veera Brahmendra Maha Swami, who lived in the modern Andhra Pradesh, (c 1000 CE), had elaborated on the events preceding the appearance of Kalki or "Sree Veera Bhoga Vasantharaya" as he termed him. Came across this in my searches and study of patterns in the prophecy literature.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Oct 2009 14:20

brihaspati wrote:Friends from Andhra, can you throw some light on the following: Divya Maha Kala Jnana, ("Divine Knowledge of the Time" written by Shree Veera Brahmendra Maha Swami, who lived in the modern Andhra Pradesh, (c 1000 CE), had elaborated on the events preceding the appearance of Kalki or "Sree Veera Bhoga Vasantharaya" as he termed him. Came across this in my searches and study of patterns in the prophecy literature.

You can check wiki on him. He was born in 1610 (according to wiki) so his predictions were 400 year old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Potulu ... ndra_Swami

His Kala Jnanam (knowledge of time) is collection of predictions he told various of his disciples. Here is Telugu version but I couldn't find any link in doc format or in English. This link has his predictions followed by writer's interpretation of his predictions.
http://www.teluguone.com/bhakti/kalagnanam/index.jsp

NTR made his last movie "Sri Madvirat Potuluri Veera Brahmendra Swamy Charitra" on him before becoming CM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2xP6woddO8

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Oct 2009 21:14

What is Kalajnanam?

When Arjuna asked Krishna “who are you?”, Krishna answers “ I am the kala (time), the is omnipotent” . Time has the capacity to dominate all living and un-living. Past, present, future are only few aspects of kala, the time. The entire creation lies within the control of “Time”. Only few great seers have the knowledge of “Time”. One of such seer is Potuluri Veera Brahmenda Swami. He lived in early 16th century (late 1400-1520?), per some records.

Events mentioned in Kalajnana that are already passed/happened.
1. Kasi will be left uninhabited for 40 days – between 1910-12 Ganga river had severe floods. During this time Cholera was prevalent and the devotees stopped visiting Kasi.
2. One “Durga” rules India for 16 years – Indira Gandhi
3. Pictures on screen rule the peoples. People get mesmerized by makeup – All the politician turned movie actors/actresses.
4. Kings and Kingdoms become history
5. People die as birdy-chariots collapse – Aeroplane crashes
6. Population grows out of control
7. Brahmana Agraharams become history – My village is one such case
8. In Hyderabad Hindus and Muslims will have religious riots
9. Temple trustees will be dominated by Adharmic forces; people steal temple funds/ornaments – many cases, including KanakaDurga temple in Vijayawada
10. Many innovative machines will come but none will be able to recreate birth/death – a reference to artificial limbs, liver, heart etc
11. There will be great unrest in Ravana’s place – Srilanka
12. All the kings in “Macharla” will be killed due to a woman – Palanati War
13. Vijaya Nagara empire will be destroyed
14. One interesting tree will be born that will get up in day and sleeps in nights; this tree will die after 7-8 years – This event happened in Chebrolu, Guntur dist.
15. Krishna Devaraya will enter into fights with Gajapatis – This happened between 1505-1520
16. The key turning point in Indian history is 4808 year in Kali – this translates to ~1706 AD
17. In the 5097 year of this kali yuga (~1995 AD) many interesting things happen- few grams of rice will be sold per rupee – Today 1 kilo rice is ~20Rs in Andhra Pradesh – So 1rupee gets us 50grams of rice.
18. Inter caste marriages will happen.
19. People will stop reading Vedas. Kshatriya varna will be destroyed. Sudras become rulers.
20. Parents sell their children

Other unclear items that need some interpretation and inferencing
21. Two golden swans drop light and lakhs of people die of them – Do the represent atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
22. Lots of deceases come from prostitutes and many people die of those deceases – AIDS?
23. Water lights lamps – Hydro electricity?
24. India will be ruled by foreigners – Colonization?
25. Tirupati Lord venkateswara will be worshipped by muslims – Bibi nanchari?

Future
26. Ganga river will extinct in Kasi after 5000 years – Similar to Sarasvathi river.
27. I will come as “Veera Bhoga Vasanta Rayalu” after 5000 years and will punish the sinners
28. Vijayawada (AP) Indra Keeladri (hill) will be destroyed (by a earth quake?) – and Kanaka Durga leaves temple.
29. Kumbhakonam temple will be collapsed.
30. Krishna river reaches the nose-diamond of Kanaka Durga in Vijayawada - Tsunami?
31. Crocodiles enter Lord Venkateswara temple in Tirupati – the temple will be closed for 3 days. – Tsunami?
32. Crocodiles enter Srisailam Bhramaramba temple – Tsunami?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Oct 2009 22:45

Ramay,
Crocodiles might be the EJs and they have entered Tirupati already .

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Oct 2009 23:05

Prem wrote:Ramay,
Crocodiles might be the EJs and they have entered Tirupati already .

I too thought of it Prem ji. But the other day I got another revelation.

20 yrs ago one guy from my locality was the TTD chairman. The rumor has it that he used to bring 100Rs bundles every week in the trunk of his car. That is the capacity of TTD in 1980s. Imagine what would be the cash-flow today.

Recently there is a major activity (or High court directed inquiry) to evaluate and catalogue all Tirumala assets and jewelry. Numbers in the order of Rs 30,000 to Rs 40,000 crore are used to estimate the gold and jewelry deposits alone. Add the real-estate interests of Mahadeva to it. The crocodiles in your post must be eying on them, before the beloved varuna deva took care of the business.

That is why TTD chairman post is the crown-jewel for any political party.

Alas the Hindu treasury is being abused by a new religion (secularism) nowadays. If managed properly Lord Venkateswara alone can revive Hindu Dharma in India.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 12 Oct 2009 23:19

I may be wrong, but in AP popular folklore if “Krishna river reaches the nose-diamond of Kanaka Durga in Vijayawada” it’s a sign for the end of the world.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Oct 2009 23:27

First of all we need to fix date of brahmam garu's birth. If we fix his birthdate around 1600

>12. All the kings in “Macharla” will be killed due to a woman – Palanati War

This happened pre/early-kakatiya times so before his time. Not a prediction unless he refers to some thing else.

>13. Vijaya Nagara empire will be destroyed

Hampi was already destroyed. Vijayanagara capital was moved to Penukonda and later Chandragiri. He might be referring to Aravedu dynasty from Penukonda and/or Chandragiri

>15. Krishna Devaraya will enter into fights with Gajapatis – This happened between 1505-1520

This already happened before his time.

>24. India will be ruled by foreigners – Colonization?

Muslim ruling was already happening during his time so he was referring to non-muslims, the Europeans

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Oct 2009 23:31

ShyamSP garu

I just translated what I came across in some telugu website. I too noticed the date issue. You are right; one need to fix PVBS's timeline.

This is more of a study of patterns than study of facts. So one should be careful. This is what RayC-ji is questioning in the public forum.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2009 06:15

Read one more prediction of Sri PVBS.

A man wearing turban from saptasindhu area will rule Bharat and the nation will grow militarily under his rule. I am not making this up.

Most of Sri PVBS' predictions on social changes that inturn bring the end of world in addition to few natural calamities.

On the other hand Sri Nostradamus talks of specific events.

I notice a difference of world view even in this area!

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 13 Oct 2009 06:26

RamaY wrote:A man wearing turban from saptasindhu area will rule Bharat and the nation will grow militarily under his rule.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh? Or Sri Man Mohan Singh?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2009 07:12

B-ji

I am watching the video "the great year". Talks about the cyclical nature of time and Kali yuga. Per this theory we left kaliyuga in 1600s and entered treta yuga. I have to check why we read "kaliyuge pradhama pade" in samkalpam.

Perhaps I will enquire about it in my desh yatra.