India's Sharm-el- Sheikh Harakiri...

[chetak]

Astute observation. Don't like to make caste generalizations, but the fellow doesn't have the robustness that might come from a Jat background. Grew up in an India colonized by the Brits, as a Dhimmi in a Muslim majority area. His mental make-up was further emasculated by his education in Britain. A mental eunuch, if you will. The emasculation has sunk very deep into his veins.

Despite not being a great fan of Manmohan, I do think India needs to maintain contacts with all stakeholders in Pakistan - we need contacts with the civilian government, with all political parties, with religious leaders, with all factions in the armed forces, with the provincial governments etc. India needs contacts with everybody and should try to back those elements that are amenable to reason. We need to guide the evolution of the entity known as Pakistan into a form that is more conducive for long-term peace and stability in South Asia.

No benefits should be given to the bad guys, but we do not gain anything by cutting off all contact.

We have official statements from the Indian side that the porki army has been invited to the discussion table.

We are always at pains to inquire whether the isi and the porki army is on board with the decisions taken.

Why are we debasing ourselves like this? All three porki parties concerned are more than capable of denying any agreement and going back on any decision taken as has been proved many times.
They seem to act independently most of the times, pursuing their own private agendas, with sometimes the army and isi colluding. The porki army is nothing but a political party in uniform that has swept all porki elections without even participating in the electoral process.

As a soverign govt why are we talking directly to their army and spy agencies. What exactly is their legitimacy and locus standi in any national bilateral discussions? Where is the Indian Army in all this or is it that the civilians want to quietly give away what the jawan has wrested with his blood. Just to prove to the bemused porkis that civilian rule is supreme in India and every war that the Army has ever won for the country, the civilians will lose it on the negiotiaing tables in airconditioned rooms while eating biriyani .

Does this happen anywhere else in the world? Is mms going to conclude separate agreements with each of them only to have it repudiated by the others?

I can feel it in my bones. Siachin will be given away on a platter and the porkis will put the chinese there by quietly ceding the glacier to the chinks like they did in aksai chin.

This is probably why they are so unwilling to authenticate on the map the present positions of the two armies on the glacier.

[tripathi]

I have never heard of Pakistan raking up Balochistan in any bilateral meeting before. The very first mention of Balochistan and we allow a finger to be pointed at us ?

AS per Pakistan reports the army will be entering Balohistan soon.

Is it similar to 1971 ?

Yes its similar to 1971 except for the fact we dont ve indira and manekshaw combination this time.so take a cill pill about all wet dream regarding india going on millitary offensive under mms.Even laloo would ve been better strategist compared to mms.

[RajeshA]

I would like to pose a question to all interested BRFites:

I. The BRFite Truth is:
a) The masterminds of Mumbai Attacks were elements in the Pakistani Establishment itself.
b) The power dynamics in Pakistan would not allow anybody who is involved to be prosecuted and punished.
c) The TSPA has thought out of a clever excuse to not undertake any steps to curb terrorism against India, by claiming that India is involved in the unrest in Baluchistan. This propaganda is used for the Western audience and for domestic audience.
d) Even if it were true that India is involved in Baluchistan, which she most probably is not, it would only be in a well-justified response to what Pakistan has been doing all these years in Kashmir and rest of India, on a far larger scale.

II. The Civilian 'Leadership' in Pakistan 'pleads' its inability to deliver goods, as:
a) The security establishment in Pakistan will not allow any prosecution of Mumbai attackers, or curbs on anti-Indian terrorists because they say, India is also fomenting trouble in Baluchistan.
b) The civilian 'leadership' does not have any intelligence or information to counter such propaganda from the security establishment, as they do not have any information/intelligence on what is going on. With proper information, the civilian leadership could counter the propaganda point-for-point.
c) They cannot assure the wider security establishment or the nation, which believe in this propaganda being done by 'vested interests', that this issue is being dealt with in a determined and institutionalized way.
d) Furthermore, as and when, the civilian 'leadership' would try to change something for the better, some 'rogue' elements in the security establishment would again arrange for some terrorist attacks in India, setting back efforts, as the incrimination from both sides take on their own dynamic, and all efforts are sabotaged.

III. The GoI, i.e. the GoI feels that:
a) They can either declare full-scale war against Pakistan,
b) or start a war of attrition and subversion against Pakistan,
c) or start a policy of retaliation against Pakistan after every attack, but all these options have their drawbacks and huge costs, with dubious results;
d) or, they can try to firm up a constituency in Pakistan, which can go up against the anti-Indian security establishment.

IV. Let's make the assumption that
a) the option d) is a viable alternative as a strategy or as part of the overall mixture of strategies.
b) Let's also make the assumption that the current civilian 'leadership' under Zardari & Gilani can be a useful component of such a constituency.
c) Let's also assume, that Zardari & Gilani have expressed their firm desire to fight against anti-Indian terrorism, provided they are supported.
d) It is however still a variable how serious their assurances are or their capacity to deliver even if they are supported in some form or another.

Consider it as an exercise. If you were the PM of India, how would you go about formulating a Joint Statement which does justice to the above considerations.

[SSridhar]

From the DAWN interview with Ms. Clinton

‘There are some in Pakistan who say that Indians are using Afghanistan to interfere in Balochistan. Will you discuss this with the India?’ she was asked.

‘Well, I’m going to raise everything that we believe is of significance with the Indian government. I believe that it is in India’s interest for Pakistan to be stable, democratic, free of terrorism,’ she said.

From this, I can only assume that the US feels that India was up to some mischief in Balochistan and forced India to accept a reference to it in the Joint Statement. The US seems to have dictated too much.

[RajeshA]

For all negotiators with Pakistan, American, and I expect also Indian, the "Indian Involvement in Baluchistan" was becoming a wall they ran up against each and every time they tried to demand Pakistani action on terrorism.

Now this excuse is only for propaganda sake, but it is still a wall, which the Pakistanis have shown to fully believe in, regardless of the fact, that it is self-delusional.

[chetak]

From the DAWN interview with Ms. Clinton

‘There are some in Pakistan who say that Indians are using Afghanistan to interfere in Balochistan. Will you discuss this with the India?’ she was asked.

‘Well, I’m going to raise everything that we believe is of significance with the Indian government. I believe that it is in India’s interest for Pakistan to be stable, democratic, free of terrorism,’ she said.

From this, I can only assume that the US feels that India was up to some mischief in Balochistan and forced India to accept a reference to it in the Joint Statement. The US seems to have dictated too much.

This is true diplomacy. Truly this statemant means nothing or everything as interpreted by the motivated reader.

She has said something that can be interpreted by different people in different ways.

She can, at anytime, put whatever spin on it that she chooses. At the same time she can agree or deny totally that anything like this was ever said (as interpreted by you).

But our mms goes onlee by unjustified, self incriminating and self injuriously slanted joint statements engraved on stone like any bad baboo. ( He is not AFRAID to discuss any point he says!!)

Good babus NEVER put anything in writing, ever.

[RayC]

From the DAWN interview with Ms. Clinton

‘There are some in Pakistan who say that Indians are using Afghanistan to interfere in Balochistan. Will you discuss this with the India?’ she was asked.

‘Well, I’m going to raise everything that we believe is of significance with the Indian government. I believe that it is in India’s interest for Pakistan to be stable, democratic, free of terrorism,’ she said.

From this, I can only assume that the US feels that India was up to some mischief in Balochistan and forced India to accept a reference to it in the Joint Statement. The US seems to have dictated too much.

If the US is really calling the shots, I am changing my name to:

Ray Cowdry

and am the brother of Kalyan Chaudhuri, who was the MCC Captain and changed his name to:

Colin Cowdry!

[shravan]

If the US is really calling the shots,

Sir,

The US must be calling shots. But there must be something which would benefit India. America needs a strong India to look after China.

[RayC]

If the US is really calling the shots,

Sir,

The US must be calling shots. But there must be something which would benefit India. America needs a strong India to look after China.

Strong India but weakening it by terroism?

And having a PM who does not assert himself and allows the country go down the tube?

[chetak]

If the US is really calling the shots,

Sir,

The US must be calling shots. But there must be something which would benefit India. America needs a strong India to look after China.

Not to look after but sacrifice, exactly like they are doing with the porkis.

[shravan]

Strong India but weakening it by terroism?

Sir,

I understand what you trying to say. But if there was another terrorist strike in India without Joint Talks what would have India done ?

We know that Pakistan with free of terrorism is not going to survive.
Let see what happens when Pakistani Army enters Baluchistan.

[Dilbu]

If the US is really calling the shots,

Sir,

The US must be calling shots. But there must be something which would benefit India. America needs a strong India to look after China.

So thats what we want to be? Another ***** for the duplicitous khan? How does it help India to take a confrontational stance against China? Unkil can watch from the sidelines and lick the blood like the proverbial wolf but it is our energy, lives and resources that are going to get sacrificed for a cause which has nothing substantial to offer us. Do we need to be wary of the lizard? Yes. But this South Asia containment BS has nothing in it for us.

[Pranav]

We have official statements from the Indian side that the porki army has been invited to the discussion table.

We are always at pains to inquire whether the isi and the porki army is on board with the decisions taken.

Why are we debasing ourselves like this? All three porki parties concerned are more than capable of denying any agreement and going back on any decision taken as has been proved many times.
They seem to act independently most of the times, pursuing their own private agendas, with sometimes the army and isi colluding. The porki army is nothing but a political party in uniform that has swept all porki elections without even participating in the electoral process.

As a soverign govt why are we talking directly to their army and spy agencies. What exactly is their legitimacy and locus standi in any national bilateral discussions? Where is the Indian Army in all this or is it that the civilians want to quietly give away what the jawan has wrested with his blood. Just to prove to the bemused porkis that civilian rule is supreme in India and every war that the Army has ever won for the country, the civilians will lose it on the negiotiaing tables in airconditioned rooms while eating biriyani .

Does this happen anywhere else in the world? Is mms going to conclude separate agreements with each of them only to have it repudiated by the others?

I can feel it in my bones. Siachin will be given away on a platter and the porkis will put the chinese there by quietly ceding the glacier to the chinks like they did in aksai chin.

This is probably why they are so unwilling to authenticate on the map the present positions of the two armies on the glacier.

It is the Paki weakness that they cannot act coherently. But that is not necessarily a disadvantage for India. Cannot say what current Indian govt will or will not do, but it would be advisable to have contacts with everybody and try to influence the outcomes of their internal dynamics. Look how much influence the Amreekis have in Pakistan. They maintain contacts with everybody in Pakistan including the judiciary, the press, political parties, army officers etc. India needs to do the same.

[enqyoob]

Guys, time to start a bit of thinking here, just a short break from the , you can go back to that right after this. Question: What is the true international implication of this news?

INDIA DOES NOT OBJECT TO PAKISTAN REFERRING TO BALOCHISTAN IN JOINT STATEMENT! AGREES TO TALK TO PAKISTAN REGARDLESS!

My take is that the astonishing non-objection to the "Baluchistan reference" was a clear, clear statement by India. That unless Pakistan ends terrorism, or if there is any more nonsense, Baluchistan is bye-bye. Probably followed by Sindh, Balwaristan and Pakhtoonistan. More to the point, the Indian delegation conveyed the airy attitude that they don't BELIEVE that Pakistan is going to stop terrorism, therefore, they may as well whine to the whole duniya about Indian action to break up Pakistan, for all that India cares.

If I were a Paki jarnail that is precisely the message that I would read from that. This is the message that Dus Berjenti and Groper Gilani take back to 'Pindi to the Corps Commanders. This faaar more effective than saying "we won't talk to Pakistan" which does nothing at all.

So MMS is truly chankian in that the outcry in India (and on BRF) about it, very nicely provides cover as a "boo-boo" for what is a blunt, blunt message to TSP.

As for Clinton, she was not going to be goaded into a statement that gave out any info. A "Stable Pakistan" per US definition, is one to which the GOTUS can sell F-22s to combat the Taliban Air Force and the Waziristan Women's Frying Pan Brigade, because they take action to stop the Taliban from crossing into Afghanistan. Obviously, the linkage is there, and obviously, India is saying that unless there is a stop to terrorism, there won't be any Pakistan, "Stable" or "Manger" or "Pig-Sty".

The US faces a very very big problem. Until 2 months ago, the US had the option of declaring "victory" as in Eyerak, and walking out. No more. Now Mr. Obama has committed the US to putting boots on the ground all over Afghanistan, from Helmand to Kunduz and Paktia to Herat, and STAY and HOLD GROUND until the Pakiban are gone (BTW, term "Pakiban" was coined by me, and I meant that there is no such thing as "Taliban", it's all Pakis).

Question: How are the Pakiban to be "gone" unless they are eradicated from Pakistan, and the border is sealed? Surely this has occurred to Obama and Clinton. There is no more pretence about Pakistan's Frontline Al-Lie stuff. American planes are bombing and killing Pakis INSIDE Pakistan every day.

By this time in 2012, if US soldiers are still dying in Afghanistan, well... Clinton need not run for nomination and Obama will be a 1-term wonder, economy or no economy. They will be run out of DC. So the clock is ticking for Clinton, much more than for MMS, who is probably going to retire anyway by 2014.

So far, the US has been pressuring India to close down the Jalalabad Consulate, etc. That is clearly in response to Paki about Balochistan and Pakhtoonistan. India denying roles in these places has not reduced this pressure.

So now what happens, with India suddenly NOT denying having strong national security interests in both places? (When India said: "Balochistan is Pakistan's internal matter, but if they want to internationalise it, and tell everyone about their troubles, hu r v to protest?" that should have sent chills down the Das berjenti spine.) It's like a tug-of-war where the rope is suddenly released - the "winners" land on their musharrafs, and the "losers" are standing and can continue to kick them in the golas. Remember: Musharraf's claim after Kargil was that he had INTERNATIONALISED Kashmir - at the cost of 4000 NLI dead.

India managed to INTERNATIONALISE Balochistan without firing a shot, and without risking Chockalingam Sukhvinder Singh Brahmachari one bit.

K'rachi Stock Exchange must be soaring with the rise of "Pepto-Bismol" stocks. India has just made it clear: stop terrorism or India will break up Pakistan, not from the Kashmir LOC, but from the western border of Pakistan. Hence the airy de-emphasis of Kashmir at Sharm-el-Sheik.

So the Pakis go back to Islamagood crowing about "victory!" "India will talk to us although we have not yet shot Hafeez Saeed!" What is missing in this picture? Do you see the words "Core Issue" any more? Never since the time of Indira Gandhi has India given the Pakis something to REALLY keep them awake, other than Kashmir.

Wonder what is Iran's interest in the Balochistan issue - I don't think they want the Pak Balochis because those are generally Sunni, but they may not be against kicking the US-proxy Pakistan generals. If Iran, Afghanistan and India come to an understanding of common interest...

[Dilbu]

^^^
N3 Saar how I would love to believe it. But I have seen far too many 'policies' and Chankian moves from MMS over the past few years to believe it just like that. May be you are right. I just hope.

[shiv]

I just had second thoughts about the mention of Baluchistan in the declaration.

Theoretically, if India had brought up the "Baluchistan problem" as a sort of tit-for-tat accusation against Pakistan's accusations about Kashmir, it would have given Pakistan the perfect excuse to blame India and say "Aha! see - you people are involved in Baluchistan. So we are involved in Kashmir. Equal equal."

What has actually occurred is that Pakistan brought up the subject of Baluchistan and India is willing to discuss "anything". Fine. The next time there is any talk or talk of talk - let Baluchistan too be discussed. Let us not forget that we on BRF have been at the forefront of calling the GoI as being without goolies for neither supporting overtly nor indicating support for a Baluch national cause. In this case Pakistan has firmly allowed India into any talks about Baluchistan.Why complain. India can now openly talk about Baluchistan based on the besharam al sheeshkabob or whatever declaration it was.

[SwamyG]

Swamy, the difference between the last 62 years and Sharm-el-Sheikh is that while we let Pakistan off the hook so far on every occasion, now we have voluntarily hooked ourselves. Ordinary mortals don't see a reason why we have committed a hara-kiri.

Thanks. What do you mean by voluntarily hooked? And how is it suicide?

[shiv]

^^
Ahh - I see enqyoob has said something similar.

Great apes always select the same ticks to eat.

[munna]

Just to jump in the firing line, I guess a lot of on this forum is a result of us imagining to have perfect information about the situation to make a good judgement. Greater Maulanas like N^3 and Shiv have emphasized before me that discussing Baluchistan(a non-disputed until now) province with PAKIS will be so much more fun! MMS was panned as rashtra drohi and traitor plus an agent of IMF when he unveiled his policies under Rao sahib but look where he has got us now. I would suggest that apart from frothing at mouth and fulminating in gratuitous anger there is little else we are contributing to the debate, for once the jingos can now start thinking and game the future of Baluchistan, as my hunch is that MMS is now really negotiating with single chaddi on and won't give anything away to Klingon and B(rain-less).O. I might be really mistaken but then if Advani can find Jinnah great man then we should not really complain about a self confessed liberal PM.

[enqyoob]

In fact I hereby declare the word "Balochistan" to be irrelevant and outdated. The proper term is ParadaRajya, with capital at Mehrgarh.

The Indus Valley Civilization (3300–1700 BCE) was an ancient civilization thriving along the Indus River and the Ghaggar-Hakra River in what is now Pakistan and Northern India. Among other names for this civilization is the Harappan Civilization, in reference to its first excavated city of Harappa.
The Indus civilization was predated by the first farming cultures in South Asia, which emerged in the hills of what is now called Balochistan, to the west of the Indus Valley. North Eastern Balochistan is connected to Afghanistan by passes over the Toba Kakar Range. Valleys in Makran coast are open towards the Arabian Sea. Through these routes Balochistan was in contact with West Asia and took part in the so-called Neolithic Revolution, which took place in the Fertile Crescent around 9000 to 6000 BCE. The earliest evidence of sedentary lifestyle in South Asia, was discovered at Mehrgarh in the foothills of Brahui Hills. This settlement dated 7000 BCE and was located on the west bank of the Bolan River, about 30 kilometres from the town of Sibi. {Siberia used to be part of Paradastani Empire ruled by Emperor Sibi}
These early farmers domesticated wheat and a variety of animals, including cattle. Pottery was in use by around 5500 BCE. It has been surmised that the inhabitants of Mehrgarh migrated to the fertile Indus river valley as "Balochistan" became arid due to climatic changes. The Indus civilization grew out of this culture's technological base, as well as its geographic expansion into the alluvial plains of what are now the province of Sindh and Punjab in contemporary Pakistan and Northern India.

By 4000 BCE farming communities spread further east in other parts of "Balochistan" and Lower Sind. Later this culture reached to Upper Sind, Punjab and western states of India. The development of these farming communities ultimately led to urbanization. The mature phase of earlier village cultures is represented by Rehman Dheri and Amri. Kot Diji represents an intermediate phase towards Indus civilization, where the citadel represented centralized authority and a complexity of life which is evident by the scattered ruins of the city. Another town of this stage was found at Kalibangan in India on the Hakra River.

Paratarajas

The Paratarajas are a dynasty of Indo-Scythian kings who ruled in the Balochistan region of today's Pakistan and Iran, from the 51st century BCE to the 3rd century CE....
(lit. "Parata Kings"), a dynasty of Indo-Scythian-Siberian or Indo-Parthian kings. The dynasty of the Paratas is thought to be identical with the Paradas

The Paradas are a people mentioned in ancient Indian texts such as the Manu Smriti, various Puranas, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. In Purana literature, they are also referred to as Varadas and Paritas....
of the Mahabharata[/quote]

What can be more convincing that this was the seat of the original GOI and South Block, I ask you:

The earliest evidence of sedentary lifestyle in South Asia, was discovered at Mehrgarh in the foothills of Brahui Hills.

Q.E.D.

[Sanku]

Hindustan Times has gone into MMS the hero mode just like it did at the time of Nuke deal.

The usual madarassa logic of "MMS did lib without anyone liking, see how that turned out. So now when he does something no one likes just like the nuke deal we know he is an herrow"

It openly says that the good terms MMS has with US now helps US gently push India into doing right things and not bother about what Indians want themselves because they are such idiots

[kenop]

Were can this Baloch turn of events take India?
Where will Bakistan take it next? When will it be best time for Bakistan to acccuse India in any substantive manner? The reference in the Sharam-naak declaration was was quite vague.
It does not seem natural to me for Bakistan to rock the boat so soon. All that can happen next (maybe till a few rounds of compost-dialogues take place) will be just light and sound show for internal audience unless PA decides to take over in the interest of the nation (when a new dynamics will set in). So, it would mean that this issue will be used at international levels only when there is a visble deterioration of relations. (I do not believe that for anybody in the Baki establishment talks are an important issue. The real aim is to bleed India). So, some time (one year?) of calm on this front can result. Meaning nothing that can bother India will really happen. Internally, various groups will feel and show vindicated about the evil Yindoo plans to destabilize the Pure-land.
Does this sound reasonable?

[pgbhat]

After n^3 and shiv saar post. ....... let me put this up because I thought all was lost in
K-word out but big B-word in: Balochistan

Manmohan Singh, however, said India had nothing to hide.
“We have nothing to be afraid of. Our conduct there (Balochistan) is like an open book,” he told reporters when questioned about the reference in the joint statement.

[shiv]

will be just light and sound show for internal audience unless PA decides to take over in the interest of the nation (when a new dynamics will set in).

I visited my ancestral village last week. Our original tongue was ancient Dravidian Lingamshake, destroyed by evil Aryan Sanskrit. Interestingly the word for Pakistani in my language is terdbrain

You see all of Pakistans problems in Baluchistan are because of India. No India. No problem in Baluchistan.

Packis, the terdbrains that they are now have to decide whether they should attack and destroy India in the East to settle their Baluchistan problem, or attack Baluchistan in the West.

Maybe talks will help? Hain?

[enqyoob]

This just in:

Knowledgeable insiders who spoke on condition of anynomity because they are not allowed to speak to the media, confirmed that 60% of the "suspected US Predator air strikes" against targets inside Pakistan actually originate in Balochistan, not Afghanistan, and are based on intelligence provided by Indian satellites and overflights. The operators of the Predator aircraft are also believed to be Indian engineers in joint operations with the US, and the communications go through ISRO satellites. This situation has caused much fuming among Pakistani senior military officers because the ISRO satellites are now able to even read documents in their hands, but they are helpless. Thus the tacit Indian acknowledgement of the situation strengthens the hand of Zardari against the military by showing that this has the backing of the US government at the highest level.

[Gagan]

Get one thing straight.
1. The US doesn't want to destroy china. - Only to discipline it. Too many interests have built up in the US-China relationship for china to be cast away. IOW there is no superpower to be destroyed, there is no cold war-2.
2. The US does not need india to be a strong nation to counter china. It just needs india to be compliant with its wishes, to align its policy with the US so that china can be teased and disciplined.
This does not mean that Tibet will ever be a free country, or that Aksai Chin will ever be back with India, this also means that china will never give up its claim of arunachal, because this is china's counter attack to discipline india.
3. Finally the US needs to keep india in check too. Here comes pakistan's role. Pakistan did not need to be strong to be able to deter india, it just needed to be willing to do what the powers wanted it to do. With the nuclear weapons fig leaf, pakistan can do what it has been told to do without fearing an indian backlash.

[Gagan]

This sharam-el-sharief sounds like india's version of pakistan churning up an al quaida no 3 every time a dignitary is visiting.

[Gagan]

Narayanan-ji,
I know india is good, but that is stretching things too much. Everything seems to be done with indian satellites and indian engineers. what next, the predators are assembled in a secret HAL shed in bangalore, kerela?

[Gerard]

My take is that the astonishing non-objection to the "Baluchistan reference" was a clear, clear statement by India.

Does it not also allow India to bring up human rights violations in Balochistan? Now that Pakistan has internationalized the issue, isn't the conduct of the Pakistani army fair game? What about self determination for the Balochi people? Perhaps soft borders and joint management?

[RamaY]

There will be no increased Afghan role for India. The hopes might have been raised, but no concrete offers. This will again run into troubled waters once TSP starts scratching the US+UK tail again for the next largesse. No, the game is not being understood. AFG will be USA+UK theatre of operations only, India can provide resources but nothing that gives solid military or strategic presence. This is mainly sops to TSP's infantile disorder - that it "needs" Kashmir. TSP is not conceding anything real, anytime soon. It simply has notched up one more step towards its dream - expansion east into Mughalistan.

It is not TSP that need to concede anything. It is the UK/US that needs to concede interms of TSP. The game is with UK/USP. I hope our spineless PM learns a thing or two about self-respect and courage from those small nations that stood against western tyranny and pressure for decades...

[shravan]

1. The US doesn't want to destroy china. - Only to discipline it. Too many interests have built up in the US-China relationship for china to be cast away. IOW there is no superpower to be destroyed, there is no cold war-2.

Is it going to allow China to promote democracy in Central Asia ?

2. The US does not need india to be a strong nation to counter china.

What does US need to counter China in Central Asia ?

3. Finally the US needs to keep india in check too. Here comes pakistan's role.

With terrorists or without terrorists ?

[munna]

My take is that the astonishing non-objection to the "Baluchistan reference" was a clear, clear statement by India.

Does it not also allow India to bring up human rights violations in Balochistan? Now that Pakistan has internationalized the issue, isn't the conduct of the Pakistani army fair game? What about self determination for the Balochi people? Perhaps soft borders and joint management?

Exactly and from this day onwards ladies and gentleman Pakis with their astonishing intelligence and sooper-dooper deep-low-messy have managed to internationalize an issue that we steadfastly used to call an internal issue of Pakistan. Slowly and slowly by the end of MMS regime we shall be discussing the fate of FATA, NWFP and South Punjab too . Nay entire Pakistan is disputed and should be discussed by us with them, Chankian or not Pakis have shot/Brahmos-ed themselves in the foot by making India an established party in the Balochistani struggle against Pakjabi repression. Power to Gilani and Paki deep-low-mats for making a fool of their own people and country.

[Manny]

This Baluchustan issue could be turned to our advantage.

Now, Baluchistan is open to be meddled with as and when Pakistan meddles in Kashmir.

You stop meddling in Kashmir, we stop meddling in Baluch. Thats the trade off/Quid pro quo we can make.

Weather we were meddling in Baluch in the first place is irrelevant.

[archan]

This just in:

Knowledgeable insiders who spoke on condition of anynomity because they are not allowed to speak to the media, confirmed that 60% of the "suspected US Predator air strikes" against targets inside Pakistan actually originate in Balochistan, not Afghanistan, and are based on intelligence provided by Indian satellites and overflights. The operators of the Predator aircraft are also believed to be Indian engineers in joint operations with the US, and the communications go through ISRO satellites. This situation has caused much fuming among Pakistani senior military officers because the ISRO satellites are now able to even read documents in their hands, but they are helpless. Thus the tacit Indian acknowledgement of the situation strengthens the hand of Zardari against the military by showing that this has the backing of the US government at the highest level.

Does that mean the ISRO can also see my escapades in the goatshed?

[satya]

Whatever MMS said & agreed has full confidence of First Family & people who matter . US is a good excuse for lot of things GoI has to do but its the last one who can put pressure , beyond a certain point it doesn't work . Please be patient , results will be b4 us in coming years not days . That's all i can say .

[Manny]

Does that mean the ISRO can also see my escapades in the goatshed?

What are you doing to the goats?

[Gerard]

India interfering in Balochistan: Gilani

Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."

During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.

[enqyoob]

we steadfastly used to call an internal issue of Pakistan

Of course we STILL steadfastly call it an internal issue of Pakistan. It is PAKISTAN that has internationalized the plight of the Balochistani ( I mean ParadaRajya) people, and the massive violation of human rights, bordering on genocide (I am always diplomatic and understate things, as u know..), by the Pakistan Army.

[Manny]

India interfering in Balochistan: Gilani

Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."

During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.

If its true that India is meddling in Baluch, I am impressed with India.

[Anujan]

India interfering in Balochistan: Gilani

Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Saturday night blamed India for "interference" in Balochistan and "other areas" and said the document reflected Pakistan's concerns over this.

The joint statement signed by him and prime minister Manmohan Singh "underlines our concerns over India's interference in Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan", Gilani told his first press conference after his return from Sharm-el Sheikh.

Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks." During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.

Groper trying to do a ZAB with MMS being "statesmanlike" and all.