Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:14
by Frederic
ramana wrote:Would the guys have been arrested in US if they werent going to Copenhagen? To me it seems like they overreached by going after Denmark and hence got arrested.
While its true they had Mumbai linkages etc they were apprehended to prevent a strike on Denmark. We need to keep this in mind while listening to platititudes about cooperation on terrorism etc. they were under surveillance since Dec 2008. Was India ever informed about this at all? Fat chance.
Bet a dollar to donut hole he wont be extradiated to India.
Exactly! Though the US journalistic reports are exhaustive in their coverage about the Denmark angle, not a pipsqueak about the Mumbai carnage connection.
Also note that the name of the butcher Ilyas Kashmiri comes up in the US reports. But the silence on his J&K atrocities is very conspicuous.
Is the India angle being deliberately suppressed?
Best
Fred
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:15
by Jarita
Rahul M wrote:there are many lawyer politicians in India, sibal for example.
True. Ram Jethmalani has some family that might be aligned with Butt and co. Could be someone else but someone who turned politician recently
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:16
by BijuShet
Rahul M wrote:there are many lawyer politicians in India, sibal for example.
To keep Psecs happy add Arun Jaitley to the list too saar.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:18
by Jarita
I might be wrong
Ram Jethmalani in a music video!
85-year-old high-profile lawyer, Ram Jethmalani will be soon seen in a music video called Tanha. He's a great romantic at heart," says Mohd Raj Khan, talking about the actor in his new music video. And this actor is none other than the 85-year-old high-profile lawyer, Ram Jethmalani! The never-say-die octogenarian has recently been bitten by the acting bug. First, it was a brief appearance in a TV serial called Siddhant in which he played himself - giving advice on legal matters to the protagonist, a budding lawyer.
And now, Jethmalalni's acting in a music video called Tanha . Says Khan, "When I first conceptualised the video, I immediately thought of Uncle Ram, whom I've known all my life, since he's a family friend." Though he had initially evinced interest in the project, Jethmalani decided to back off because of lack of time. " Maine haath-pair jode unke saamne , requesting him to do me this one favour," says Khan. Finally, the ace lawyer relented and the video is all set to be aired soon.
Shot in Mumbai and Belapur, the video is about an old and lonely bachelor whose only companion is his memory - of the time he was a young man madly in love with a beautiful girl.
But their love story does not have a happy end. Talking about the lawyer's acting abilities, Khan gushes, "He's a natural. There was no question of second takes, he is a one-take actor. And when he saw the final video, he was happy with his work." What's more, Khan claims Tanha is the talk of Bollywood right now. "Mahesh Bhatt, who is a good friend of uncle's , says he had been trying to get him to face the camera for the past 15 years," he says.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:25
by Gagan
Jarita wrote:"Mahesh Bhatt, who is a good friend of uncle's , says he had been trying to get him to face the camera for the past 15 years," he says.
Touche
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:29
by anuj
Jarita wrote:Sounds like Ram Jethmalani
That's what i thought too. He has stood as a congress candidate against ABV from lucknow. His son though is a BJP candidate from mumbai, Mahesh Jethmalani. What a family.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:36
by Jarita
Contrast this with the Purohit/Pragya treatment. It pays to be a terrorist/terrorist supporter in India
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 00:40
by Raju
>> His son though is a BJP candidate from mumbai, Mahesh Jethmalani. What a family.
It's not unnatural at all. People who are known as DIE usually have immidiate family members on both sides of political spectrum.
they like their bread buttered both sides.
since in any whichever outcome, someone in family always stays in/close to power.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 01:12
by milindc
Rahul M wrote:
shravan wrote:
Police sources claim a lawyer-turned-politician has been calling up senior officers every day and asking them to not pressure Rahul
there are many lawyer politicians in India, sibal for example.
I think it is Harish Salve, that clown was on CNN-IBN, along with Mahesh and Pooja Bhatt defending Rahul and how it was cruel of NIA to drag him in Media. Based on the interaction, it seemed to me that he was also advising the Bhatts.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 01:34
by dipak
Jarita wrote:Contrast this with the Purohit/Pragya treatment. It pays to be a terrorist/terrorist supporter in India
True.
I was wondering why the Narco test is not conducted on Rahul as it was so swiftly done in Pragya/Purohit case.
After all, by all accounts - this Headless (chicken) (Headley) case is much more severe in scale, intensity and consequences.
And also, the animated/graphical account of the Narco test should be played repeatedly on various news channels.
This would clear whether Rahul is innocent as 'Paa' is claiming.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 01:36
by dipak
BijuShet wrote:
Rahul M wrote:there are many lawyer politicians in India, sibal for example.
To keep Psecs happy add Arun Jaitley to the list too saar.
Why leave poor Ravi Shankar Prasad
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 03:08
by ramana
N^3, JBCT assumes that Rahul Bhatt is an empty airhead. We dont know yet. Early assertions from Sen(i)or Bha(u)tt that Rahul went to the police willingly are being refuted by the police that they would have come up on him.
Headley is gora, an American etc are all items to claim Rahul Bhatt's innocence via airheadedness. I mean there is a track record of that Bhatt family. Dysfunctionalism is leading to anti-nationalism. And also atleast those killed in Taj and the Cafe have to be answered at a minimum.
We really dont know if it was a chance encounter in a gym or Headley was directed to apporach folks there. the trainer Vilas says he introduced Headley to Rahul Bhatt. Was Headley asking for Rahul Bhatt or why did Vilas think Rahul Bhatt is ideal contact for Headley?
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 03:28
by Mahendra
Vilas, the trainer at Moksh
[youtube]bN_SwmL7NGI&NR=1[/youtube]
Bit strange behaviour in the second video
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 03:30
by ramana
What was the strange about it? please elaborate.
Thanks, ramana
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
dear on line editor,From all available media reports and the article published in NIE kochi edition it is proved beyond any doubt that the first and fore most reason was demoralisation of India intelligence agencies secondly there are very close relations between Pak army officers, Al-queda slamic terrorists and every person of islamic origin who has some sympathy with this terrorist scheme.Diplomats,armyfficers ISI polititician all were involved.David Colman Headely and Tahwwur Hussain rana were reliable links who acted as the fronline intelligence for Islamic terrorist supported by Al-Queda .Indian intelligence utter failure resulte in the success of these lawless team dated Noveber 20th 2009 Time 0347Hrs ist AM
By P.M,G.Pillai
11/20/2009 The plot gets thicker and deeper...the mind boggles.!!!!!!! Retired Pakistani Army officers in US, Ex Army officers in Pakistan, Bollywood Chamchas, who is next...???????????
By BABUJI
Bilkul satya vachan! When mango people think like this, there will be an awakening which the toadies cant suppress.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 03:48
by Mahendra
Ramanaji
He seems to alternate between being evasive and nonchalant in the second video, almost laughing while answering the last question, contrast that with the first video where seems extremely stressed and at one point he says " I will tell all when the time comes".
Wonder why he had to make the "marathi manoos" comment, he is perhaps under pressure from different quarters to shut up.
Whatever it is, this man has the guts to come on national TV and present his POV, quite unlike the Butts who are shooting off someone else's shoulders and writing letters to the PM about betrayals
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 03:55
by ramana
He might not have lost the native touch. He knows what he did and is willing to suffer for it. The Bhatt wants to evade his responsibility.
What does Bal Thackeray or his nephew say? Still going after Sachin Tendulkar?
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 03:58
by Mahendra
ramana wrote:He might not have lost the native touch. He knows what he did and is willing to suffer for it. The Bhatt wants to evade his responsibility.
What does Bal Thackeray or his nephew say? Still going after Sachin Tendulkar?
BT has said in his editorial that both the Butts should have been hanging upside down in the police station
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 06:22
by niran
Frederic wrote:
Is the India angle being deliberately suppressed?
Best
Fred
once upon a time a Gora came to a village, there began a great din
"Gora aaya! Gora aaya!
then the Gora gave a loud fart thussss.......
people! USA or any other country will not do India bidding,
India angle will have to be suppressed, see every affasar
worth his/her salt will want a promotion both in rank and moolah,
to achieve that, the perpetrators will have to be successfully prosecuted
ASAP, to do that the least amount of evidence is to be used. not going up to your
senior HR and claim more fund to investigate and collect India angle, moreover
if they publicly state India angle they will have to do just that. zimpul no?
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 08:21
by enqyoob
Headley link: Five Pakistan army officers held
That removes all doubt. Why would TSP "arrest" army officers, except to put them out of circulation and out of reach of the Croquet Instructors of Africa and the Red And White.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 09:15
by shiv
Mahendra wrote:
Wonder why he had to make the "marathi manoos" comment, he is perhaps under pressure from different quarters to shut up.
My take on this. "Marathi manoos" is a euphemism for the mango Maharashtrian in Mumbai who makes Mumbai run - the people who is often dismissed as "tatiyas" or "ghatis". I think the Shiv Sena/MNS deserve credit for coining a new and non-insulting term for this group of people. Vilas is describing himself as belonging to this group - the "service sector" if you like, of Mumbai.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 09:28
by Jarita
Mahendra wrote:Ramanaji
He seems to alternate between being evasive and nonchalant in the second video, almost laughing while answering the last question, contrast that with the first video where seems extremely stressed and at one point he says " I will tell all when the time comes".
Wonder why he had to make the "marathi manoos" comment, he is perhaps under pressure from different quarters to shut up.
Whatever it is, this man has the guts to come on national TV and present his POV, quite unlike the Butts who are shooting off someone else's shoulders and writing letters to the PM about betrayals
Why did the poor guy lose his job? Can't the Marathi manoos brigade pressure Moksh to give him back his job
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Bhatt also lashed out at the media for propagating half truths. “TV has proved that millions of people in our so called very spiritual nation passionately love lust, slander and violence,” said Bhatt further expressing his disgust on media that has branded Rahul a suspect, “I wonder why it is so tough for the media to discriminate between a witness & a suspect? Rahul is a witness not a suspect!”
Pointing out that the news channels and news papers are full of dangerous lies, Bhatt said, “Turn off the television. Don't read the newspapers. It's full of lies, lies and more lies! The truth sellers are lying machines. How do you deal with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it?,” questions an angry Bhatt.
Wasn't this the same Bhatt who was saying on NDTV since Sadhi Pragya may have been at one VHP(not BJP VHP one) event, BJP was Dark forces etc etc..now now Mr. Bhatt.
What about your movies, arent they full of dangerous lies too?? Joseph Gobbels is complaining against psy-ops operations?
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 14:17
by Pranav
IMHO it is useful to recall certain features of an even worse attack than 26/11 by terrorists based in Western countries - the 1985 Air India bombing.
Here are some excerpts:
[quote]
Ontario Lt Governor James Bartleman, who was director general of External Affairs' intelligence bureau in 1985, testified at the public inquiry that he saw an intelligence document warning of an attack on Air India aircraft just days before the bombing.
He said he personally delivered the document to a committee meeting on Sikh extremism that was going on at the same time.
When he showed the document to the senior Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officer at the meeting, Bartleman said, he was "startled" by the reaction he got.
"He flushed and told me that of course he'd seen it, and that he didn't need me to tell him how to do his job," he said. "That confirmed that he had seen it and that the RCMP would take that into consideration and do what was necessary. The next thing in my memory is the downing of the aircraft."
Bartleman was in charge of the intelligence analysis and security branch of the Department of External Affairs when the plane blew up on June 23, 1985, killing all 329 people on board.
Bartleman said he found the document in his daily package of intelligence briefings in the week of June 18.
"I saw in there a document that indicated Air India was being targeted that weekend, specifically the weekend of the 22-23," Canadian Broadcasting reported quoting Bartleman.
"It was raw, unevaluated information. There had been so many alarms raised over the previous year about potential attacks that I suppose it would be possible for someone to say this is just another one of these cry wolf events."
When asked why he recalled that incident so clearly, Bartleman said he had never been "hissed at" in such a way during his career and that it made a "searing impression."
The tragic Kanishka bombing killing 329 people in 1985 could have been averted had the Air India plane not been allowed to leave Canada before a bomb-sniffing dog could search the luggage, a former police officer has told a probe commission looking into terror attack.
The Air India Flight 182, which exploded off the Irish coast, was not alerted of the bomb threat and allowed to leave Canada before a bomb-sniffing dog could search the plane and its luggage, Serge Carignan, a former dog handler with Quebec's provincial police, submitted on Wednesday before the inquiry Commission presided over by Justice John Major.
Carignan believed he could have found the explosives but the plane had already left the Montreal airport by the time he arrived to check it.
"I've always wondered why, if I was called to search an airplane and some luggage, why did they let the airplane go before I arrived there," said Carignan. "I did not have a chance to search that airplane. I believe that if I had a chance to search it, things might have turned out differently," he said, adding, "I believe we would have found the explosives."
Carignan testified in Ottawa that he was called to Mirabel airport on June 22, 1985, hours before a bomb blew up the plane. "I was not told it was a bomb threat. I took it upon myself when I received the call that it was a bomb threat," Craigman said.
Carignan said he was told officials needed help searching a plane and luggage, and that the airport's regular Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) dog squad was out of the region on that date. By the time he arrived at the airport, roughly 45 minutes later, the plane had already taken off, Carignan said. http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullst ... wsid=86250
In a startling revelation, an inquiry has been told that the Canadian police was not informed in the days after the 1985 Air India bombing about the recorded phone conversations of the main suspect, evidence that could have led to the conviction of some of the accused had they not been erased.
As the public inquiry resumed its hearing after a three-month break, a former member of the task force claimed the central intelligence agency denied him access to the tapes even after he had learnt about them almost a month after the Kanishka flight bombing that killed 329 people, mostly of Indian origin.
Former Superintendent of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Lyman Henschel said senior officials from RCMP and Canadian Security Intelligence Service liaison held a top- level meeting shortly after the bombing to setup a task force.
He said that despite the presence of the CSIS official at the meeting, he was not told that the intelligence agency had been recording Talwinder Singh Parmar's phone conversations for three months before the disaster.
Lots more evidence here including [quote]CSIS agents followed Talwinder Parmar and Inderjit Reyat to a test bombing on Vancouver Island.[/quote]
So we see how the law-enforcement machinery worked at the lower levels. However, it appears that there was a decision taken at a high level that the plot should be allowed to proceed.
This kind of pattern can be found in many terrorist attacks (including 9/11).
On the other hand, there are several recent cases which indicate that patriotic elements of western law-enforcement agencies may be pushing back against their superiors. One such incident is the entrapment of the scientist Stewart Nozette by an FBI agent posing as an Israeli spy.
Now as regards regards the Headley-Rana case, there are several possible scenarios:
1. There could be a commitment at a high level that terrorist attacks on India will be foiled insofar possible, in keeping with the improved relations between India and the US.
2. It could be that Headley and Rana were busted by lower level staff, operating on their own initiative.
3. It could be that the Headley-Rana duo were busted because they over-reached by targeting Denmark.
4. This could be a gesture intended to lull India into believing that the US is serious about acting against anti-India terror, and it is not indicative of what might happen in the future.
It is good to keep in mind that there are still several unexplained features of 26/11, including the phone call to Zardari by someone claiming to be Pranab Mukherjee, and the original sources of the funding coming from the Gulf. The phone call, in particular, appears to have been intended to trigger open hostilities in the subcontinent, which might solve a lot of problems for many different parties.
It's true that the overall tenor of relations between India and the Western powers has been improving. The atmospherics surrounding the recent visit of the Indian President to the UK royals were positive, as are those for the upcoming visit of MMS to the US. The arrest of Rana and Headley is a positive gesture. Nevertheless, the US may not allow access to any evidence that implicates any US allies or assets. Anyway, even if there were a larger conspiracy behind 26/11, it certainly would not reduce culpability of the people who were doing the planning and killing - a useful idiot cannot escape culpability for his idiocy.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 15:15
by anuj
milindc wrote:
shravan wrote:
Police sources claim a lawyer-turned-politician has been calling up senior officers every day and asking them to not pressure Rahul
I think it is Harish Salve, that clown was on CNN-IBN, along with Mahesh and Pooja Bhatt defending Rahul and how it was cruel of NIA to drag him in Media. Based on the interaction, it seemed to me that he was also advising the Bhatts.
Harish salve is a politician?
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Among the several women Headley was seen with, the IB sources say two in particular could have guided Kasab and Khan on that horrific night.
The Pakistan-born American knew that celebrities and women would act as appropriate cover for his activities.
NIA agents, who have visited hotels that Headley stayed in, have confirmation that Headley was often seen with women. The agency has collected information on the appearance of these women and are in the process of identifying them.
Sources said Headley also contacted escort services in India; one such location in Mumbai has provided investigators with information.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 17:21
by Anabhaya
Getting Headley and Rana extradited to India would be a major test of NIA's effectiveness. Chidambaram says India would press for extradition and that both of them have been booked under Unlawful Activites (Prevention) Act.
This is a good chance for Massa/Canada to demonstrate their crediblity in the fight against terrorism vis a vis India. Infact it should be treated as a litmus test.
We really ought to stop getting distracted by the Butts. Getting the two men into Arthur Road and hearing them sing is the only way we can go about dismantling the terror infrastructure set-up over the last few years. All Indian Mujahideen and SIMI links need to fully gone through - every thread looked into. This will be painstaking work taking months but considering police and intel reforms aren't even touched with a 10ft pole we had it coming sometime!
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 17:41
by Karmasura
He seems to alternate between being evasive and nonchalant in the second video, almost laughing while answering the last question, contrast that with the first video where seems extremely stressed and at one point he says " I will tell all when the time comes".
Minor point... but in the first video, Vilas said he hadn't slept for 10 days while in the second one, he said he hadn't slept for 5 days... Thus, the second video must be the first one and this explains the steady degeneration of his condition.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Chief Judge James F Holderman has extended till next January 14, the date of filing indictment for the Rana, a Chicago resident of Pakistani-origin. A Canadian national, Rana had made several trips to India in the past several years along with his school-time friend and co-accused David Coleman Headley alias Daood Gilani, who has also been arrested on same charges.
Apology if already posted.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 18:22
by kenop
Anabhaya wrote:Getting Headley and Rana extradited to India would be a major test of NIA's effectiveness Have no such expectations. This thing has fallen in their lap by chance. US will not hand them over to India and let their own legal process incomplete. Chidambaram says India would press for extradition and that both of them have been booked under Unlawful Activites (Prevention) Act. [ Statements quite along expected lines.]
This is a good chance for Massa/Canada to demonstrate their crediblity in the fight against terrorism vis a vis India. Infact it should be treated as a litmus test.[ They have no obligation]
We really ought to stop getting distracted by the Butts. Getting the two men into Arthur Road and hearing them sing is the only way we can go about dismantling the terror infrastructure set-up over the last few years.[ All this does not necessarily require the presence of the duo] All Indian Mujahideen and SIMI links need to fully gone through - every thread looked into. This will be painstaking work taking months but considering police and intel reforms aren't even touched with a 10ft pole we had it coming sometime! .
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 18:42
by Anabhaya
It is not so hard to subvert a 'legal process'. The US continues to run the Guantanamo bay imprisonment centre. India need not buy that snakeoil. Where there is political will there will be a way.
Should the PMO make this an agenda an extradition is possible.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 19:14
by Pranav
Anabhaya wrote:It is not so hard to subvert a 'legal process'. The US continues to run the Guantanamo bay imprisonment centre. India need not buy that snakeoil. Where there is political will there will be a way.
Should the PMO make this an agenda an extradition is possible.
It should be enough for India to be given an opportunity to subject them to enhanced interrogation techniques in the US.
Re: The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co
Posted: 20 Nov 2009 20:21
by Anabhaya
But what of the cause of justice? The 180+ that died be damned and we won't move to bring the ******** to book?