Transport Aircraft for IAF

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Jun 2011 18:49

For the record,X-posted from the Indo-Russian thread.

"Russian security tsar to discuss sensitive issues in India

Quote:
Patrushev is to call on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and hold parleys with National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon on sensitive issues like military-technical cooperation, interaction in energy, including civilian nuclear and hydrocarbons, space research, and international and regional security issues, according to sources here.

During meetings on Monday, Patrushev is expected to clear the situation about the last moment cancellation of joint naval war games by Russia in April could also come up at Patrushev’s New Delhi talks.

Indian Ambassador to Russia Ajai Malhotra said the Russian navy had informed in mid-March about cancellation of the Indra 2011 naval war games due to Japan disaster and denied that they were put off after the arrival of three warships of the Indian Navy to Vladivostok."

garbage

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 07 Jun 2011 19:02

^ There will be some spinning from the diplo circles to try and contain the fallout from the news story. Nothing more than that.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:22

India Clears Biggest Deal with US for C-17s at $4.1 Bn
..:: India Strategic ::..

The final contract is expected to be signed within a couple of months after India issues a letter of acceptance to the US government. The contract entails an offset clause under which Boeing will reinvest nearly $1 billion back in the Indian defence, internal security, aviation and related training sectors.

"The offset clause under the Indian Defence Procurement Procedure mandates ploughing back of 30 percent of deals over Rs 300 crore ($65 million). Though the final cost of the 10 C-17s will be over $4 billion, it will include training and other add-on equipment costs too and hence, the offset percentage will be calculated on the basis of the basic price of the 10 aircraft will be slightly over $3 billion," an official, familiar with the intricacies of the deal, told IANS.

"The aircraft's purchase is in tune with India's aim to have swift power-projection capabilities in a region spanning from the Persian Gulf to the Strait of Malacca, seen as the country's primary area of geo-strategic interest," a senior IAF officer said.

India is likely to opt for an additional six of the C-17s after the contract is signed for the first lot of 10 aircraft as the IAF is keen on increasing its heavy-lift capability, the officer added.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:26

Corporate America Hails India's Decision to Buy 10 Boeing C17s

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:32

Big-Bucks Deal Keeps Word to Obama

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:34

Corp America hails India's decision to buy 10 Boeing C17s

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:35

USIBC Hails India’s Landmark $4.1 Billion Purchase of Boeing C-17s

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:38

Boeing : Order from India to Save Long Beach Jobs

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:40

India's $4.1 Billion Aircraft Order with Boeing is Boost for Long Beach Factory

A C-17 Cargo Jet is Produced at Boeing's Long Beach Factory.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 07 Jun 2011 19:46

Comparison of Western Airlifters

C-17 at Leh for Indian Trials

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 07 Jun 2011 21:10

Juggi G wrote:India's $4.1 Billion Aircraft Order with Boeing is Boost for Long Beach Factory

In April, India announced its short list of bidders for about $10 billion in fighter jets. It rejected bids by Boeing and Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed Martin Corp. Instead, the country said it was considering two French companies — European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co., the parent of Airbus, and Dassault Aviation.

Amriki DDM at work

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jun 2011 21:10

quite impressive if it managed to get in and out of Kangra with some useful load...

I wish we had 50 more C-130J though, including some AC-130.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 07 Jun 2011 21:12

I would rather partner up with Embraer and purchase a partnership share and obtain access to IP rights and license to build KC360 locally.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Jun 2011 22:48

Hitesh wrote:I would rather partner up with Embraer and purchase a partnership share and obtain access to IP rights and license to build KC360 locally.

I think we should be doing both, Partner with Enbraer to jointly manufacture planes, we should also buy some more C130Js and C-17s. We should also look forward to joint manufacture C130Js with LockMart.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Jun 2011 01:28

Hitesh wrote:I would rather partner up with Embraer and purchase a partnership share and obtain access to IP rights and license to build KC360 locally.

You mean KC390 right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_KC-390

But then what would happen to the Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAC/HAL_Il-214

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 08 Jun 2011 02:51

Click

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jun 2011 08:45

mashallah and their first mission should be build up pinaka and arjun tank units in ladakh.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 08 Jun 2011 09:08

Rakesh wrote:
Hitesh wrote:I would rather partner up with Embraer and purchase a partnership share and obtain access to IP rights and license to build KC360 locally.
You mean KC390 right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_KC-390

But then what would happen to the Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAC/HAL_Il-214

The problem with MTA is that it has not gone anywhere especially 10 years after it was mooted. Here with Embraer, the program is already in the works. The Russians are not reliable and doesn't want to do things 50/50 on a venture like this. They are too greedy for their own good. I would rather find someone else and give that person a chance and make it work.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Jun 2011 17:33

Singha wrote:mashallah and their first mission should be build up pinaka and arjun tank units in ladakh.

couple of Brahmos BlockIII to Pasighat or Zero would also help...nice welcome gift to the lizard

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 09 Jun 2011 04:27

Has anyone come across any pictures of the new upgraded cockpit of the IAF An-32s?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Jun 2011 04:38

Luxtor: The only picture currently available...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ca1s7pkZJJk/T ... 784497.JPG

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 09 Jun 2011 04:49

no glass cockpit .

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jun 2011 07:13

Great news. I second Singha, the first mission should be to get some serious hardware up to Ladhak.

Another thing, I would like to point out that in the previous avatar of this thread some folks, including myself, had pointed out the $5.8 billion figure which was touted by a Boeing spokesman ages ago was not etched in stone. There were a lot of brickbats then. But now look at the figure, $410 million vs $580 million.

But irrespective of that this is a great addition to IAF transport fleet. I would think the IL76s would be used to ferry troops (with double deck sitting they can ferry more troops than the C17) and these beast to ferry the heavy stuff.

JMT

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jun 2011 07:14

Gurneesh wrote:no glass cockpit .

Good to have but is it necessary in a plane of this nature? IMO just jacks up cost.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jun 2011 08:20

I believe airframe overhaul, engine upgradation and some navigational instrument changes were the highlights of this program. perfectly fair NOT to spend for a glass cockpit on these planes imo...as we'd be the first customer and have to bear all the development cost. the C130J types have had it for a while...so its part of the deal.

this article does speak of MFD. maybe they installed a MFD in the center area between the pilots hidden in the photo.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 782891.cms

"Apart from airframe strengthening to increase their operational life from the present 25 years to 40, the upgraded AN-32s are being fitted with enhanced ground-warning systems, new weather radars, advanced GPS, multi-functional displays and the like," said an official.

--
these three items are key to survival flying in the misty and rainy valley conditions of our himalayan front. a must for any transport a/c we operate from now on.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Jun 2011 12:15

"Apart from airframe strengthening to increase their operational life from the present 25 years to 40, the upgraded AN-32s are being fitted with enhanced ground-warning systems, new weather radars, advanced GPS, multi-functional displays and the like," said an official.

Very practical and necessary.
I hope that the ground warning system is state of the art, flying at night and in bad weather with low visibility is the kind of the job that these guys have to do all year round.

But for strike missions during wartime, special ops, in bad weather, low-visibility there are the C-130Js. We need many more of those.
The MTA needs to come online quickly too.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Jun 2011 01:24

As per DefPro (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=12504) these are the following items being upgraded;

- air collision avoidance system
- ground proximity warning system
- satellite navigation system
- distance measuring equipment
- upgraded radio altimeters
- new radar with two multifunctional indicators
- new oxygen system
- improved seats for crew members

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 10 Jun 2011 02:03

So no new engines then? I thought the designation RE for the upgraded An32s meant "re-engined"

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 10 Jun 2011 02:06

^^^

Rakesh Ji, Thanks for the photo of the upgraded An-32 and this upgrade list. I guess on an older aircraft that's all needed. In that photo, that officer is blocking the view of the new MF panels and the new radar display in the center console. Still would be nice to see it. Maybe we'll get to see it one day.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Jun 2011 02:10

putnanja: RE might stand for re-equipped....pls see below...

http://www.indiablooms.com/NewsPhotoDet ... 80611a.php

Luxtor: Perhaps the IAF thought it not worth upgrading these aircraft to a level that may be financially unaffordable. The MoF has to loosen the purse strings and they are quite the miser.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 10 Jun 2011 21:37

Singha wrote: In pipeline

* Four more P-8Is for almost $1 billion

* Six more C-130Js for over $1 billion

* 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers for $647 million

* Multi-million dollar deal for Javelin anti-tank guided missiles

I am thinking in a few years we might buy another 10 C17 to cover for and go beyond retirement for older IL76MDs.

India is likely to opt for an additional six C-17s after the contract is signed for the first lot of 10 aircraft as the IAF is keen on increasing its heavy-lift capability, says a senior Indian defense ministry official.

Link

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jun 2011 08:16

so it seems like IAF is not keen on MLUing our older lot of IL76MD (around 18) and will likely let them retire from active duty in due course ... ?

if Ilyushin got its act together and started giving proper customer service, here was a billion$$ deal for the taking because the airframe and even the metal-drill engines are rugged and reliable ..... a new cockpit, a new suite of navigational instruments, zero houring the airframe, replacing with PS90B engines, a new self-defence suite would keep these birds serving for 20 more years surely....if ancient B52 airframes built in 1950s are still flying around today (!)

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 11 Jun 2011 11:57

Singha wrote:if ancient B52 airframes built in 1950s are still flying around today (!)

It's not the years, it's the hours.

A B-52 spends very little time in the air, thus the airframe is still relatively 'young.'

Transport aircraft typically get flogged much harder and thus shouldn't be expected to last as long.

That said, I have no idea what the current airframe life of the Il-76 fleet is like . . .

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jun 2011 12:14

most would be from mid 1980s to early 1990s probably... and used pretty hard

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 11 Jun 2011 14:45

Singha wrote:so it seems like IAF is not keen on MLUing our older lot of IL76MD (around 18) and will likely let them retire from active duty in due course ... ?

The tender floated for IL-76 maintenance requires maintenance for atleast 10 years more.

Rupak · Post by **Rupak** » 11 Jun 2011 15:53

Singha
The IAF have been MLU-ing the IL-76 on a limited basis. This is an ongoing program, as an when airframes become available. You can tell the MLU Il-76 from the non-MLU by the deletion of the tailgunner's turret.

See: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 3.jpg.html

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 12 Jun 2011 00:17

Well, its been a year now. We still have not seen the magical An 124-100 and IL 476 being rolled out of a production line yet. Or anywhere close to it

Meanwhile the C-17 is coming

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Jun 2011 00:29

Tanaji wrote:Well, its been a year now. We still have not seen the magical An 124-100 and IL 476 being rolled out of a production line yet. Or anywhere close to it

Meanwhile the C-17 is coming

Party popper! No patience?

June 3, 11 :: Kachalkin on VTA Prospects

At any rate, on to what Kachalkin said . . . he hopes new An-70 and deeply modernized Il-76MD90A transport aircraft will enter the VTA inventory starting in 2014. The latter is an updated Il-76MD with new PS-90A-76 engines. It also goes by the name Il-476. In the more distant future, VTA looks toward buying a new An-124-300 variant. The VTA commander believes all this will translate into “dozens” of new aircraft by 2020.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 12 Jun 2011 09:03

he hopes new An-70 and deeply modernized Il-76MD90A transport aircraft will enter the VTA inventory starting in 2014. The latter is an updated Il-76MD with new PS-90A-76 engines. It

hopes!!!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Jun 2011 11:17

cheenum wrote:
Singha wrote:mashallah and their first mission should be build up pinaka and arjun tank units in ladakh.
couple of Brahmos BlockIII to Pasighat or Zero would also help...nice welcome gift to the lizard

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