MRCA News and Discussion - March 2011

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Apr 2011 17:14

paultd wrote:Obama pushes for ‘MMRCA Jet deal’
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/obama- ... -jet-deal/

India’s choice of MMRCA to be known by month end
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/indias ... month-end/

I am not sure what is the purpose of these posts. BOTH these news items are at least a month old!!!! This web site is psoting old news with current dates. Another IDWR or whatever that web site is?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Apr 2011 23:42

Ha! Looks like everyone missed this one!

Linking from Chhindits:
Indo-German high defence committee meet

Price negotiations for the MRCA hain ji?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Apr 2011 00:21

They would have meet to negotiate with every contender. Next they would be with France, USA Russia and Sweden as well. It does not give anything like x or y is already chosen.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Apr 2011 08:13

haaaaaaaaa haah!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=14594

Selex went to the court in November 2009 but, on November 24, 2010, the Supreme Court rejected its petition, declaring, “This court is not a Robin Hood… do you want us to stop the modernisation of the airfields?”

Selex Sistemi Integrati has executed several major contracts to modernise airfields in Pakistan and China over recent years. This fact, along with the legal challenge that it threw at the ministry, has seriously damaged its prospects of winning future defence contracts, say senior ministry officials involved in procurement.

Notwithstanding the courts’ relatively speedy rejection of Selex’s plea that the MAFI contract had been improperly awarded, the Italian company’s petition spun off a broader legal question —- whether foreign companies are entitled to the protection of Article 19 of the Constitution of India. This article, which Selex cited in its petition, provides citizens of India (note, not foreign nationals) freedoms such as those of movement, speech, assembly, formation of unions, etc.

“Almost all large tenders today are being challenged in writ proceedings before the Court and are coming up for judicial scrutiny. It is thus necessary to settle the legal issue in question.”

The Supreme Court is expected to pronounce a verdict on this question on May 19.

Now that should settle IAF chief's worries., and now he can proceed to get babooze get outta their firangi strong holds whoever/whichever it is may plan to torpedo MRCA decision.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 12 Apr 2011 10:25

Eurofighter Typhoon successfully adds more air-to-ground capabilities
Defense Professionals

The Eurofighter’s air-to-ground capabilites were further improved last week when partner company Cassidian Spain achieved the first EGBU-16 precision guided munition avionic release.

This success comes immediately after the first successful Paveway IV release carried out during February in the UK. These trials saw both bomb types being successfully released from Eurofighter aircraft and focused on the functional integration into the weapon system.

The EGBU-16 is the selected dual mode precision guided munition for Germany, Spain and Italy where as the Paveway IV precision guided bomb is the choice for the UK. Included in the broad-ranging Phase 1 Enhancement (P1E) programme, both weapons improve the all weather precision attack capability on the Typhoon.

The Typhoon aircraft has been autonomously air-to-ground capable since 2008 when the RAF succesfully integrated the Paveway laser guided bombs with the Litening III laser designation pod on to its Typhoon fleet. Demonstrating an unrivalled precision, the combination of weapons have been tested during several exercises both in the UK and abroad, confirming the built-in multi-role capability of the Typhoon.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 12 Apr 2011 17:16

Gagan wrote:Ha! Looks like everyone missed this one!

Linking from Chhindits:
Indo-German high defence committee meet

Price negotiations for the MRCA hain ji?

Nope. More likely the HDW upgrade (and likely discussion of the second submarine line)

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Apr 2011 20:57

So Indians are Aryans afterall. We are going to pickup a plane that has more Aryan components.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Apr 2011 22:32

money can buy anything these days. Even honorary nordic aryan club memberships.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Apr 2011 22:50

what is on the club membership offer entirely depended on the capability - thanks to many a drd-labs for their performances, without which many of such offers would not have taken place. there can be only one aryan club!

jai · Post by **jai** » 13 Apr 2011 12:00

Avid wrote:
Gagan wrote:Ha! Looks like everyone missed this one!

Linking from Chhindits:
Indo-German high defence committee meet

Price negotiations for the MRCA hain ji?
Nope. More likely the HDW upgrade (and likely discussion of the second submarine line)

And possible procurement of up to 2000 Oerlikon Skyranger mobile air defence systems from Rheinmetall defence for both the IA and IAF - if a certain "f" magazine is to be believed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2011 12:29

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/skyranger.htm

good looking stuff imo. probably a good idea to supplement the aeging ZSU-23-4 and tunguska units which are quite dated now and insufficient in numbers.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 14 Apr 2011 11:13

^^Shiny toys, but I would much much rather that in the absence of an indigenous alternative we get the Pantsyr for our SHORAD requirements. Gun+Missile, with track & cueing radar based on the Zhuk fighter radar IIRC + a scanning radar + EO guidance. Probably won't cost as much as the PanzerFliegerabwehrkanone mit der star wars extras but being a gun+missile system would be probably more effective.

Wheeled Version
Video showing tracked version, similar to Tunguska

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Apr 2011 11:18

the issue would likely be the quality of stuff delivered and after sales service over the lifetime of product. did you know we caught Rus trying to pass of 2nd hand tunguska units as new ones? some alert chaps noticed wear and tear in some parts and flagged it.

Oerlikon might be costly, but the spares and reliability is likely to be quite good. seems to have a passive EO system nothing like radar on the vehicle that might attract a ARM attack. those "AHEAD" rounds are alleged to be quite highly rated. should be useful to target incoming bombs and cruise missiles too.

we are already getting two missiles in the form of Spyder. and maitri has started. Akash on trucks is on heavy order for IAF. we need a good gun system to complete the picture.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 14 Apr 2011 17:40

For the fans of Rafale and Eurofighter:

http://ifile.it/qn3fh5x/TYPHOON.zip

http://ifile.it/saqv7ug/Rafale%20comes%20of%20age.zip

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Apr 2011 17:43

andy, any way by which one can get to view without downloads?

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 14 Apr 2011 17:44

SaiK wrote:andy, any way by which one can get to view without downloads?

ummm dunno saar...u can send me an email if you want on ohhighsohigh at gmail.com and i'll send em to ya

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 14 Apr 2011 18:36

paultd wrote:Obama pushes for ‘MMRCA Jet deal’
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/obama- ... -jet-deal/

I thought Obama was a President. When did he become a salesman ? Does he not get paid enough as President of US?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Apr 2011 21:06

He is not a president for us, so he can market his country's products. The only thing he can't expect is to consider this on the lines of gov-gov, so our babooze have given such lenience on khan politicians to consider anything from khan land as prestigious.

Got to give that to him since he represents the largest capitalistic country, and he is doing his job however to help his companies fare better. We have to look into our process and ensure everything is done without any flaws, further carefully settle this mrca saga that has irritated, tortured as for more than a decade now.

The super hornets are fine if it comes without any Obamistic or Hydistic documents and clear of ToT we are expecting, and within the price/feature needs. So are others who are competing. As IAF chief says, the losers will rue over this deal., and that desi court decision on the italian firm should ring bell to any firangies that they can't take our legal system for a b@ll.

akshay · Post by **akshay** » 15 Apr 2011 00:51

Singha wrote: we are already getting two missiles in the form of Spyder. and maitri has started. Akash on trucks is on heavy order for IAF. we need a good gun system to complete the picture.

I know this is the MRCA thread but i guess till someone has anything solid to add we can discuss.

speaking bout Akash ...its being treated like a pariah, though 925mil$ is huge order.
Is DRDO at fault or the IAF dunno ..drdo must release some more vids of Akash.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 15 Apr 2011 01:46

akshay wrote:
Singha wrote: we are already getting two missiles in the form of Spyder. and maitri has started. Akash on trucks is on heavy order for IAF. we need a good gun system to complete the picture.
I know this is the MRCA thread but i guess till someone has anything solid to add we can discuss.

speaking bout Akash ...its being treated like a pariah, though 925mil$ is huge order.
Is DRDO at fault or the IAF dunno ..drdo must release some more vids of Akash.

Are you referring to the recent Navy's RFI for MR-SAM systems? If so, then what has that do do with Akash?
BTW, since you claim to know that this is MRCA thread, why are you posting about Akash?

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 15 Apr 2011 02:38

x-posting from Pakistan arms and ops thread...(courtesy: Ramin)

An interview by a PAF F-16 pilot. It talks about how Unkil keeps a digital leash on the Paki dogs.

I think that this sort of thing is common in all US military hardware sold overseas. Something to consider before handing out billions of dollars worth of defense deals to the Americans...

Q 28: One of the stories going around is that the Block 52s are coming with strings attached: (i) the PAF can only base them in one airbase, Jacobabad; (ii) they cannot be used for offensive operations beyond Pakistan’s borders; (iii) some sort of monitoring mechanisms will be put in place to monitor the location of each aircraft and (iv) PAF cannot take them outside Pakistan without the permission of the US. Are these correct?

A: To some extent, yes. However, it is important to understand the background to these conditions.
When the PAF asked for the Block 52, the initial US reaction was “no”. Their main concern was that if this potent technology could be released to Pakistan, sooner or later, it would end up in the hands of the Chinese who would reverse engineer it. It was the PAF that offered a solution. We could place the Block 52s in a separate airbase where the Chinese would have no access. This meant an airbase that had no Chinese aircraft. We could not base them in Sargodha because we would not deny the Chinese access to our most important airbase. Jacobabad was a forward base which had been revamped by the Americans for Operation Enduring Freedom, including a new first-class runway, so it was the first choice. The US agreed to this proposal provided that it would have the right to monitor the aircraft.

To recall an interesting little story: soon after the first F-16s were delivered to Pakistan in the mid-80s, the PLAAF Chief visited Sargodha. The Americans were there as well. As a gesture of courtesy, the PAF showed the PLAAF Chief one of the F-16s and let him sit in the cockpit. Some US technicians were there looking on. As soon as the PLAAF Chief sat in the F-16 cockpit, the first thing he did was to start measuring the HUD with his fingers, you know, when you extend your little finger and thumb to measure something? This worried the Americans.

Q 29: What are the monitoring mechanisms? I have heard they will have US personnel stationed at Jacobabad?

A: The US personnel stationed at Jacobabad will be transitional. They will be training PAF aircrew on the maintenance of the Block 52. Most of these US personnel will be from Lockheed Martin. The US does not need to have personnel physically present in Jacobabad to monitor the Block 52s.

Q 30: Could you elaborate?

A: They have ways of keeping an eye on the Block 52s without being personally present. The main concern is the transfer of cutting-edge technology – the avionics and radar, the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) the Sniper pod. They have put digital seals all the sensitive technologies, which can only be opened via a code, which only they know. If there is a malfunction or these parts need to be serviced, they will be taken out of the Block 52s and shipped back to the US for repairs/servicing. If we try to pry open these systems without the codes, inbuilt alarms will be relayed to the Americans, which will be a breach of the contract.

Q 31: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

Q 32: Doesn’t that worry the PAF?

A: I’m sure it does. However, the PAF considers the Block 52 a “bonus” aircraft. We are not depending on it for our entire air defence. It is a temporary force multiplier until we have enough squadrons of JF-17s and FC-20s. The opportunity to know what the latest technology is capable of is enough justification to purchase these aircraft.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Apr 2011 02:47

^^^

Nothing new there. There was an article late last year about digital locks. It is coming and there is nothing anyone can do but to go along with it - in fact, build one of your own.

Besides, it is my understanding that what is built in India - for the MMRCA - is negotiable. Does not the MMRCA have plenty of Indian parts too? The MKI has plenty of mix-match parts. I am inclined to think that India is FAR ahead of Pakistan in many matters on the technology front.

Such article are really good to id technologies, but do not apply to all situations.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 15 Apr 2011 04:18

IMPORTANT-

Q 31: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

And this is Turkey '- a member of the NATO. Without knowing the facts of the case one shouldn't make any conclusions, but I am starting to feel uneasy. Hopefully we'll stick to the EF and even the Rafale would be decent choice.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 15 Apr 2011 04:35

And we're sure that EFs and Rafs have no such devices? Suddenly, the LCA looks even better!

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 15 Apr 2011 04:37

I am more worried about the P-8s and C-130s already purchased....

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Apr 2011 04:53

Even the LCA WILL have foreign parts. It is impossible for any country to build everything internally.

The article i mentioned in my previous post dealt with this particular issue because the US armed forces are being sold fake parts - transformers, chips, etc. That is the problem with COTS, a diff topic, but which has led to digital and software locks.

Tracking, I would assume, has been there for some time now.

India needs to work on its own components that are deemed strategic. And, since reveng is not an option it becomes that much more difficult.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Apr 2011 04:55

BTW, I just read an article that mobile apps "track" app users!!!!

I think the Rafale just got dropped, buy the J-17

Viv S wrote:
arun wrote:

Huh? We're more popular in Pakistan than in France.

srai · Post by **srai** » 15 Apr 2011 05:35

Viv S wrote:IMPORTANT-

Q 31: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

And this is Turkey '- a member of the NATO. Without knowing the facts of the case one shouldn't make any conclusions, but I am starting to feel uneasy. Hopefully we'll stick to the EF and even the Rafale would be decent choice.

I guess that's what will be covered under the Communication Interoperability & Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA).

EXCLUSIVE: No CISMOA? Here's What They're Pulling From The Indian C-130J

...
* AN/ARC-222 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) - Manufacured by Magnovox and administered by the US Air Force

* KV-119 IFF Digital Transponder (Mode 4 Crypto Applique) - Manufactured by Raytheon and administered by the US Air Force

* TACTERM / ANDVT Secure Voice (HF) Terminal - Administered by the US Air Force

* VINSON KY-58 Secure Voice (UHF/VHF) Module - Administered by the US Air Force

* Finally, the Rockwell-Collins AN/ARC-210(V) SATCOM Transceiver's COMSEC/DAMA embdedded RT is replaced with an RT that has no COMSEC/SINCGARS
...

The list above gives an idea of where they could put the tracking devices.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Apr 2011 05:52

That is all communication gear!! Your cell phone has tracking capabilities!!

_____________________________

BTW, with all this natakbaji within "NATO" on Libyan fiasco, wonder what could happen IF India buys the EF. It certainly will not be produced in India and could face a much larger roadblock in the event of even one nation disagreeing with India. EF should have, what, 4 governments to disagree? Plain as day light in the Libyan case.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 15 Apr 2011 06:31

NRao wrote:

That is all communication gear!! Your cell phone has tracking capabilities!!

_____________________________

BTW, with all this natakbaji within "NATO" on Libyan fiasco, wonder what could happen IF India buys the EF. It certainly will not be produced in India and could face a much larger roadblock in the event of even one nation disagreeing with India. EF should have, what, 4 governments to disagree? Plain as day light in the Libyan case.

Right on! Buying the Ef is agreeing to a 4-way veto

I don't trust the Oiropeans for a moment. They don't love us. Check the Pew Internet Surveys.

If only we could have had the LCA on time and the MCA/AMCA to follow.... That's strategic space

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 15 Apr 2011 07:55

Viv S wrote:IMPORTANT-

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

the interview seems to be a sophisticated "hack job", possibly by an MRCA competitor...Its highly unlikley that a PAF pilot ill engage in such discussions with the media, even if he knew...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Apr 2011 08:35

> speaking bout Akash ...its being treated like a pariah, though 925mil$ is huge order

iirc Akash has a confirmed order book of $2 billion between IAF and IA. its not a pariah now, but a Munna.

more orders could come if decision is made to upgrade northern airbases to same level of protection now being given to eastern airbases, by replacing the SA3/SA2 obsolete units already in north with Akash.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Apr 2011 08:37

Somnath sir, the interview is sourced from paffalcons.com which is a brfish site for Pak.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Apr 2011 08:50

common, you guys must be joking putting the strategic bar chart here.

how about 6% pakis who exists in India? countries with name starting with P, just hate us followed by all eye-row-peeans. look at the bojitive sides and make that chart better.

not sure, what was the question asked to obtain such influencing stats?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 15 Apr 2011 09:00

Singha wrote:Somnath sir, the interview is sourced from paffalcons.com which is a brfish site for Pak.

Singha-ji, if that interview is really what it is, either PAF is doing major demarketing of American vendors or the specific pilot faces some very interetsing music

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Apr 2011 09:07

was this leaked here earlier? slightly dated though:-

Charm Offensive for the Defense Sector

--------------------------------------

4. (C) The Joint Secretary went on to describe Indian defense correspondents as the most dubious of change in the Indo-US relationship. To make in-roads into this constituency, he suggested that DOD/DSCA Director LTG Kohler speak to a group of defense correspondents during his April 20-22 visit to New Delhi. PolCouns described a roundtable discussion for defense writers hosted by the Embassy on April 8, during which analysts were divided about whether the Indian Air Force (IAF) is truly interested in acquiring a US multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA). Some analysts believe that the IAF is only interested in US participation in the MRCA tender to bid down the price of competitors' planes, especially the French Mirage. PolCouns expressed greater concern, however, about public comments from some GOI sources that reinforce doubts about US reliability that may negatively impact the IAF decision. The Charge recalled the most recent example in a meeting between Transportation Secretary Mineta and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)

SIPDIS

Director on April 14, where the HAL chief made harsh comments about US unreliability (Reftel).

5. (C) Jaishankar stated that he is aware of ""skepticism in the system,"" but believed it was only an ""articulate minority"" that aired their doubts about the US publicly, while the ""silent majority"" of the GOI is neutral or positive. He also pointed to ""conversions"" such as Navy Chief Admiral Arun Prakash who had been doubtful about the US as a partner only a few months ago, but had ""turned around"" as a result of his visit to the US in March. He added that the Chief of Air Staff will ensure that the tender is undertaken according to the established rules and encouraged LTG Kohler to address the issue of GOI interest directly during his meetings in New Delhi later this week. (Mission followed up with GEN Kohler's staff.)

6. (C) To enhance the US MRCA bid, the Joint Secretary also urged the US to highlight its comparative advantage in joint defense ventures with the private sector. This would dovetail with the GOI's new initiative to increase government-industry partnership in defense (""the Kelkar Committee""). It also reflects an area where US competitors Russia and France do not have a record to point to in India.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/the-india- ... 576918.ece

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 15 Apr 2011 13:34

RAF Typhoon jets 'grounded owing to spares shortages'

The RAF's most advanced fighter jets have been grounded owing to shortages of spare parts, MPs have found.

The Commons public accounts committee said five Typhoon pilots were grounded last year because they had been unable to put in enough training flight hours.

The jets have been used in Libya, and were deployed for the first time in a ground attack this week near Misrata.

The Ministry of Defence insists the problems identified by the committee have since been addressed.

Although Typhoons - which are made by BAE systems in Warton, Lancashire - have already been carrying out air defence missions, they have only recently been equipped for a ground attack role and were deployed in a bombing mission for the first time this week in Libya.

In their report, the MPs warned that only eight of the RAF's 48 Typhoon pilots were qualified to carry out ground attacks last year.

But Air Vice Marshal Phil Osborn said that there were now "sufficient Typhoon aircraft and pilots to undertake the task in Libya".

The RAF was undertaking its mission in a "proportionate, disciplined, reliable way," he added.

The committee claimed that the RAF was having to cannibalise aircraft for spare parts in order to keep the maximum number of Typhoons - formerly known as the Eurofighter - in the air on any given day.

It added that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) had warned the problems were likely to continue until 2015 when it expects the supply of spares finally to have reached a "steady state".

Rising cost

The committee said that the MoD relied on a "small group of key industrial suppliers who have the technical and design capability to build, upgrade and support" the jets.

"Problems with the availability of spare parts have meant that Typhoons are not flying as many hours as the department requires," it added.

"The Typhoon supply chain is complex and stretches across Europe. However, the department admitted that it had not been managed well enough or delivered all the required parts when needed."

The committee noted that the MoD was now buying 30% fewer Typhoons than it had originally planned.

But the cost of the project had risen by an estimated £3.5bn, meaning that the expected cost of each aircraft had increased by 75%.

Ground attack

The overall cost of the programme is now estimated at £20.2bn, with the cost per plane rising from £72m to £126m. ($206m US)

The committee complained that the MoD had been unable to offer a "coherent explanation" for a decision in 2004 to equip the early Typhoons for ground attack operations at a cost of £119m, only to switch them back to an air defence role in 2009, a year after the upgrade was finally ready.

"The history of the Typhoon fighter aircraft represents yet another example of over-optimism, bad planning and an unacceptably high bill for the taxpayer," committee chair and Labour MP Margaret Hodge argued.

"This pattern of decision-making is more about balancing the books in the short-term rather than ensuring value for money over time."

Defence Secretary Liam Fox said the committee had recognised that the Ministry of Defence and the aerospace industry had been working to "resolve spares issues".

"Performance targets are now being met", he said.

Jonathan Beale
Defence correspondent, BBC News

Earlier this week an RAF Typhoon carried out a bombing raid over Libya, dropping a paveway bomb and destroying two tanks. It's the first time the RAF's latest warplane has carried out a ground attack mission.

The MoD quickly released video of the successful strike and will be hoping that it can deflect some of the criticism of the Typhoon project, which the public accounts committee says suffered from "over-optimism and bad planning". The MPs also note that, of 48 trained Typhoon pilots, only eight were fully trained to carry out ground attack missions.

The RAF is keen to point out that past problems have been resolved. It says it now has "significantly more" than eight pilots ready to carry out bombing raids.

That said, the RAF is clearly stretched having to meet all its operational requirements - Air Chief Marshall Sir Stephen Dalton admitted as much in a recent Guardian interview. Sacking scores of trainee pilots has not made life any easier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13081691

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Apr 2011 14:09

um not very encouraging to read if the RAF is forced to cannibalize parts made by its own partner consortium.

akshay · Post by **akshay** » 15 Apr 2011 14:12

The EF/Rafale is gonna be just too expensive ..maybe they may satisfy the Iaf requirements but its gonna be expensive. In fact in libya it looks like Rafale and EF are in a race to bomb the T55

i keep coming back to the question if they can settle the Offset of 50%.
any thoughts on this?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Apr 2011 14:16

Singha wrote:um not very encouraging to read if the RAF is forced to cannibalize parts made by its own partner consortium.

defence budget cuts old chap
lots of them
for years and years
and favouring trident and army during the iraq and afghan wars
raf took a back seat for limited funds