Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jun 2011 23:10

nachiket, Tell that to the super powers during Cold War.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Jun 2011 23:11

Two SSS interviews with transcripts:
http://criticalppp.com/archives/50507

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jun 2011 23:12

I don't think that the Arihant or its thin missiles are involved here.

ALL targets in Pakistan, except Quetta are within Brahmos, and Prithvi range.
The Khuzdar Missile complex is 300Kms from India's border, and is easily within Prithvi's range.

Quetta is well within Shourya, Agni-1 range.

Why have the complexity of positioning the Arihant to hit target in central or northern pakistan?

Pakistan is actually that thin strip east of the indus, that is where all (>95%) of their military facilities are. And all these are < 300Kms from India's border and LOC. The reason why Pakistan doesn't have facilites west of the Indus is because that area is truly wild wild west.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jun 2011 23:21

anupmisra wrote:
Gagan wrote:Also if the guys killed in the PNS mehran attack were Uzbeks or Chechens, then it is possible that these guys might be ex-military from these nations. If so, the Pakistani N-SSG got owned by their much better trained colleagues from the former CIS nations.
Anoher theory doing the rounds on the Internet is that most of these guys were from Iran/Baloch border (possible Jundullah types). Maybe a Press TV plant. I will try and find that link.

I remember the interview that Rehman Malik gave at the end of the attack.

Subtle hints that we on BRF understand.

Rehman Malik said that these guys were 'fair', suggesting that they were not SDRE. He even tried his best to show photos from his blackberry. I am sure that before Rehman Malik came in front of the cameras, they would have done an under lungi check already.

Crazy as it is, these bozos still think that is 100% reliable.

They think that since they are 100% hardline on having a negative lungi check, the SDREs are 100% going to have a positive lungi check. They don't take into account the fact that many people from NWFP will fail the lungi check because there is no one to do the needful in an around the villages.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 01 Jun 2011 23:22

Shahzad in a way was Sanjaya reporting on the Kurukshetra war within Pakistan with the entire Pakistan state for a Dhritarashtra, blind to reality and in deep denial. Pakistan’s tragedy, of course, is there is no side fighting for dharma in its Kurukshtera war. But for us on the outside the smaller tragedy, of course, is we just lost Sanjaya.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/342772/Trag ... alist.html

satya · Post by **satya** » 01 Jun 2011 23:23

Once upon a time two brothers of different fathers lived under same roof . One praying for desert another for jam jam . Both's prayers were answered with a golden murga / hen tht lay golden eggs came in their home running for his life & promised both brothers two instead of one tht he-she previously gave . Since 'it' ( was both a murga n murgi = it ) gave two eggs both brothers were happy , one used its egg to show his piousness to gain rutba among pious & other to get vilayati ( foreign ) hoor n jam jam n flying carpets . Things went smoothly with occasional mix up btw supporters/presumed followers of pious n not so pious brohters from same mother different fathers but both thanked the same God for giving them '' it''murga-murgi combo from land of their ancestor's killers n rapists.

But when supporters begin to increase eventually a few making their way near the home of 2 brothers and saw with their own eyes the ''it'' , they too thanked the One God but asked why less pious share== with pious one and The One God blinked so the supporter of pious one started talking and filling ears of pious brother to ask for greater share & he talked but as often when has talk yielded anything to the pious of this world other than why u crave u need ur piousness only u will be awarded in next world soon . This rose suspicion in pious for never b4 his brother had mentioned about the next world tht seems so far away & so the suspicion came & game of chess arrived at their doorstep via a SDRE servant who told them to play the Shahi Khel once played by their let's not repeat who & both brothers started playing . Initially it was only placing of the players tht was taught by one we never speak his name & then a pawn here & another there started falling but for those who know ......... know pawns falling are the first sign of war & last sign of peace from past gone forever , this was never told to the two brothers who forgot to tell their fathers about the new game they been given & developed a liking for . Getting bored from this one of the supporters who wanted to become a wajir from a mere pawn by reaching the opposite kabila decided to do something about it and told a tall gora saudagar about the ''it'' murgi tht he so desire and a price was fixed which was pious as a derivative to be delivered at a future date 100% pious method approved by The One God who approved from the place where The One God's only dakiya last lived gave its approval as the supporter saw The One blinked in eyes of hoor tht he was awarded & sign of things to never come yet gifts blind the wise wht to say of the pious . The ''it'' murgi was taken without the knowledge of the two brothers . They got angry & confused & got on their camels & called a panchayat with their followers who came on their own camels & as we read b4 no settlement or truce was arrived at btw the pious & not so pious who pretended to be more pious than pious himself making him angrier than the dakiya himself so said his supporters & so the pious kabila attacked the non pious kabila & took away his two flying camels tht gora saudagar had gifted to less pious one as syahii for an even better flying carpet than in times of Dakiya himself . Now the less pious one must act , either he will take out a supporter one who is very close to the eye of pious or his dakiya or his code tht he keeps in his locket a few remain a few gone . Did i mention code oh well u see the two fathers for now of these two sons gave them a derivative of The Key to Hell Power on promise tht key can be used only if two halves are joined together so both pious and non pious had one but so grew their mistrust tht they made so many duplicates tht they dont know which one's real anymore & in fear of letting other brother know of their foolishness they pretend they have the maal & so both used to smile when they used to meet in panchayat but alas those were times & these are moments never ending . Meanwhile Gora Saudagar talks over green tea with his Silk Road Saudagar about the time they made these two sons & as usual both point to sons mischief as trait of the other but agree where the gud trait tht both saudagar had where it came from & the company bahadur whose chai they drink smile in the shadow over the little tricks he play with his puppets . .

Will the house break or will it remain one who knows but increasingly there is talk btw pious and non pious where pious insist ek baar to hamara taREEKA azmaa ke dekh lo bahot ho gaya naach gana will the non pious agree as he too listens to the advise now more often from the Silk Road Saudagar if yes wht will the saudagars do & wht will happen to their derivatives . Meanwhile both brothers agree time has come to decrease the number of panch in panchayat its time to take care of the other panchs specially those who dont ride anymore camels but pretend have one and their followers . More pawns to fall more for everbody wants to be wajir doesn't matter of which side .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jun 2011 23:36

Satya, Care to write it in proper language for the sake of others or is this a saikological atyachar!

Also folks I wrote this article over 12 years ago in BRM on factors for surprise:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... -MON7.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jun 2011 23:42

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/volca ... kista.html
Volcano of militancy

Several weeks ago, naval intelligence traced an al-Qaeda cell operating inside several navy bases in Karachi, the country's largest city and key port.
"Islamic sentiments are common in the armed forces," a senior navy official told Asia Times Online on the condition of anonymity as he is not authorized to speak to the media.
"We never felt threatened by that. All armed forces around the world, whether American, British or Indian, take some inspiration from religion to motivate their cadre against the enemy. Pakistan came into existence on the two-nation theory that Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations and therefore no one can separate Islam and Islamic sentiment from the armed forces of Pakistan," the official said.
"Nonetheless, we observed an uneasy grouping on different naval bases in Karachi. While nobody can obstruct armed forces personnel for rendering religious rituals or studying Islam, the grouping [we observed] was against the discipline of the armed forces. That was the beginning of an intelligence operation in the navy to check for unscrupulous activities."
The official explained the grouping was against the leadership of the armed forces and opposed to its nexus with the United States against Islamic militancy. When some messages were intercepted hinting at attacks on visiting American officials, intelligence had good reason to take action and after careful evaluation at least 10 people - mostly from the lower cadre - were arrested in a series of operations.
"That was the beginning of huge trouble," the official said.
Those arrested were held in a naval intelligence office behind the chief minister's residence in Karachi, but before proper interrogation could begin, the in-charge of the investigation received direct threats from militants who made it clear they knew where the men were being detained.
The detainees were promptly moved to a safer location, but the threats continued. Officials involved in the case believe the militants feared interrogation would lead to the arrest of more of their loyalists in the navy. The militants therefore made it clear that if those detained were not released, naval installations would be attacked.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jun 2011 23:46

Pakistan Civil War Now ON!
http://www.businessinsider.com/pakistan ... on--2011-5

But the real story isn't simply the death of another journalist in Pakistan, a grim category in which it is a world leader.Rather, it was the story Shehzad was working on -- the internal divisions within the ISI, which, again, we said would be the fault line out of which would erupt the Pakistan earthquake.
Shehzad had been receiving threats from the ISI for about three years because of his reporting that often relied on sources inside the intelligence agencies and inside the Taliban and other militant groups.

Which, of course, was exactly our point:

That every major player in Pakistani politics -- including the Taliban -- is riven with significant internal conflicts, some about power and personalities, but most significantly about policy:namely, does Pakistan's future lie with the militants of Sunni political Islam -- or with the slavishly pro-Western lackeys -- or, even more potentially de-stabilizing, with genuinely democratic elements that reject both political Islam AND being the local agents of the US ?The key event about which Shehzad was writing, and which was the direct cause of his death after three years of direct threats by Islamist elements within the ISI ?

(Poaks are Moo-ghaal or Moong- daal)

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 01 Jun 2011 23:56

ramana wrote:nachiket, Tell that to the super powers during Cold War.

But the superpowers have/had fissile material out the wazoo and the thirst and capacity for all sorts of experimentation.

Somehow I doubt Pakistan having the material, manpower or interest in this sort of playing with toys, no matter how many Chinese engineers are sitting around there I don't think it provides a solution to this. The establishment will be very conservative with whatever miniscule family jewels actually exist.

Their nuke program is mostly a great deal of noise covering a very small signal.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Jun 2011 23:59

archan wrote:That begs the question. We have no reason to believe that SSS was not a Allah fearing, good Muslim. Killing a good Muslim is a huge crime in Islam. So the ISI officers who killed him committed blasphemy? I just wonder how does a common religious Pakistani reconcile with these issues?
You can call terrorist x and y as a non-Muslim when they kill other Muslims (or frreedom fighters when they kill non-Muslims) but in this case it is clear to everyone this was done by whom..

If that col.imam guy can be killed by pakiban for being against jihad....then it is safe to say that no one is safe from being wajibull cattled. I have gun, I say you are wajubul cattle, I am right.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Jun 2011 00:00

The Hawks of South Asia
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... south_asia

The question of Kashmir was in the foreground throughout the summer of 2010 as the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir witnessed intifada-style protests against Indian rule, renewed calls for independence, and deaths of 110 unarmed protesters, mostly teenagers, after Indian troops opened fire to quell the protests. Despite his dream of a legacy of peace in South Asia, Singh was very slow in responding to the crisis in Kashmir. In August 2010, at the height of the crisis, he came on Indian national television. Referring to killings of young Kashmiri protesters, he said, "The events in Kashmir over the past few weeks have caused me great pain. I share the grief, the sorrow, and the sense of loss of every mother, every father, every family, and every child in Kashmir." Yet after the Indian military's opposition, Singh relented from even repealing or partly modifying the notorious Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act (AFSPA) in Kashmir, which gives around 500,000 Indian troops based there impunity from prosecution if they kill anyone on suspicion. In September 2010, as Singh was to decide on the AFSPA, India's military chiefs made it clear in person that they opposed any dilution of their powers, insisting on the need for "legal protection" to fight in Kashmir. The laws remain unchanged.

(Poaks still whinning about AFSPA)

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 02 Jun 2011 00:14

Frankly, what is needed in Kashmir is similar to what China is doing in Tibet- long term demographic change. There is no other way.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 02 Jun 2011 00:23

shiv wrote:Rudradev the Orions are credible nuke delivery platforms - and in fact that would make the placement of bums in PNS Mehran more logical.

Orions may be credible, in that it is certainly possible to put a bum in one and send it against an Indian target. But are they the most likely platform, even among all the planes that were there in Mehran? Why not, e.g. the Mirage IIIs that are apparently part of the maritime attack sqn based there? Mehran is one of the likeliest points to launch a nuclear attack on many Indian cities across Western India, and there could be any of a hundred things going on in Mehran that involved the presence of bums; I don't know that it has to involve with Orions even though they were the most visible target of that attack. I am only cautioning against giving too much importance to the Orions in all of this, which I think we may have done in the immediate aftermath of the raid.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 02 Jun 2011 00:45

hnair wrote:I think Onions with phyjjicks packages are being confused on the roles they can play - between counter-force vs counter-value. Most of the folks here talking about Onions sneaking into India and dropping he packages are talking about the latter. That possibility is highly unlikely, as ramanaji has already pointed out. They have better capability delivery mechanisms than a slow moving plane.

But an Indian SSBN with its current "thinner missile" loadout needs to be near the paki waters to "touch" their northern counter value targets. So in essence this could be their equivalent of NASR in naval arena. Figure a way to triangulate the SSBN (via agosta, rigged up fishing trawlers, drop sonars etc) and pepper the area with a phyjicks package or two. No one can blame them, as they have the same excuse as NASR "we used the nukes in our own territorial waters against invading Indian forces"

The way out is to follow the soviet model of launching from sanitized sea-air space. ie, an "aviation cruiser" led group accompanies the SSBN and swats out the onions or other lurkers to create a bigger space for the SSBN to operate in peace. But that would have its own headache in the matter of time element and positioning etc. again purely FWIW. I dont think the thin ladies might be working out as expected, unless it has more range than publicised or maybe has a more conventional role like hystrike concept.

Nairgolis sahab,

Good thinking and certainly possible that Orions were intended to physics-package the Arihant.

Personally, though, I'm not sure if our SSBNs are going to be deployed in that theatre at all. The way I see it, submarine-based second-strike capability is useful only against an enemy who can potentially take out all your land/air based strategic weapons, plus disable your command and control infrastructure in a massive counter-force strike. Pakistan has nowhere near the capacity to disable even our land/air based second-strike capabilities... even in the unlikely event that they risk their very limited arsenal in counter-force strikes on where they believe our assets to be.

China OTOH may have that capacity. Accordingly, I think our SSBNs will be cruising in the South China Sea onlee.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2011 00:48

Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg

Edited: Removed one line

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2011 00:51

The interviewer claims that Pakistan is not unjust to its minorities.
Javed Akhtar says, "You guys had 10% hindus during partition, now you have less than 1%", and "you actually have to have minorities left to be unjust to them".

Several such gems.

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 02 Jun 2011 00:52

Not to get too 'rapture'-ous or anything, but if we really are witnessing the beginning of the end of Pakistan, can we discuss what some of the red lines will be that must be crossed before the end? What types of events will need to happen before we can say with confidence that the endgame is probably in motion?

Might be more appropriate for 'Managing Pakistan's Failure' thread, will x-post there as well.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jun 2011 00:58

ExpressBuzz:

LINK

New winds of change in Pakistan

Muna Khan

Last Updated : 29 May 2011 10:53:09 AM IST

I have just returned from a short trip to my city of birth and the place I always refer to as home, Karachi, and am pleasantly surprised by what I saw was a shift in people’s perception of the army. This powerful institution, which has been in and out of (mis)governing Pakistan in its 63 years of existence, is being openly questioned, nay ridiculed, for its failure to protect its own people since Osama bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad on May 2.

This shift in perception could mark the beginning of the end of military interference in democratic governance. Pakistan’s military has always argued that it is capable of dealing with any threat, internal and external. The Americans always believed it, despite the fact that Pakistan’s military misadventures with India suffered embarrassing defeats—yet they successfully perpetuated the belief that only they could deal with the Taliban and al Qaeda threat. The attack on its naval base in Karachi last Sunday exposed those claims as false and for the first time, the military is under pressure and intense criticism in the media. The army and intelligence agencies went from being holy cows in the media, to facing some near hysterical condemnation for the security lapses.

Suddenly Pakistanis were wondering, that if the PNS Mehran base was not safe from terrorists, what if there is some truth to western concerns about the nuclear program being unsafe. Weeks after the bin Laden operation, Parliament held an in-camera session, where head of intelligence addressed elected representatives and spoke of security lapses, but the tone remained defiant. That stems from years of the military and intelligence agencies being unaccountable to no one—not to elected governments it is bound to serve under, not to citizens it is vowed to protect, nor the donors that have poured billions of dollars in aid over the course of the war on terror.

They have yet to answer questions about their relationships with terror outfits—the foot soldiers that fight their dirty battles for the liberation of Kashmir or the militants on the wrong side of the war in Afghanistan-Pakistan. But now Pakistanis are tired of the consequences of the army’s double games and dangerous liaisons, as they have brought the country naught.

The Americans—who have pumped in billions in their quest to quash Islamists in the region—too, want answers. The thawing of Pak-US relations is testament to that.

It is no surprise that the military will not find it easy, ridding itself of its so-called allies, like the dreaded Haqqani network, the Taliban in Pakistan, or the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, all terror outfits banned by the state. These terror groups have enjoyed the patronage of the army whose singular obsession is with its enemy India. But it is a different matter for the terror outfits whose existence is based on a religious ideology, that will find ways to continue without Pakistan’s military support.

The shift in tide is miniscule; blink and you may miss it, but it is present. Those demands should be heard in the top echelons of the army as it formulates a strategy to resurrect its reputation and regain peoples’ credibility.

For that to happen, the military has to let go of its obsession with India being the enemy. It has to kill the monsters it has helped create and nurture, in the form of Islamists wreaking havoc in Pakistan. It also has to learn to be accountable to the public and representatives tasked with the job of governance.

Muna Khan, Editor of Al Arabiya English, can be reached at: [email protected]

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 02 Jun 2011 01:01

Gagan wrote:Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg
on
Javed Akhtar is a BRFite.

No sir, he calls RSS as fascist organization.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Jun 2011 01:03

Warrior psychology
While it is true that at some level all military leaders have a common martial ethos, there are significant differences between the "psychology" of Indian, American, German, British, Japanese etc military leaders and the "psychology" of military leaders in Pakistan, Iran, etc. The latter group sees their role in a religious context as not merely defenders of a sovereign nation but rather as defenders of religion. They adopt the same blind zealotry that describes Islamic terrorists than actual professional soldiers. Consequently, this "religious" tinge leads to the notion of some "divine calling", where by the matters of civilian supremacy, the protection of democratic principles and the even the integrity of the nation state all take second place to their own existence which they come to see as "ordained" and therefore more important then their formal goals be being defenders of a soverign state.

This "psychology" is exactly what we observe amongst Pakistani military organizations and former military and intelligence agents in Pakistan. The idea of the pan-Islamic states and the "defense of Islam" has so totally captivated their psyche that there is little room for them to consider the larger context of the Pakistani nation state beyond their goals of "defending Islam" and "forming the pan-Islamic state"

comment section
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... south_asia

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 02 Jun 2011 01:08

milindc wrote:
Gagan wrote:Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg
on
Javed Akhtar is a BRFite.
No sir, he calls RSS as fascist organization.

Nonetheless an extremely eloquent rebuttal of many typical Paki craptastic arguments!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2011 01:13

WRT Pakistan's announcement that they will give India the MFN trade status in a few months - by october or so.

This came out just before the Siachen/Saltoro Range talks between the two countries.

That MFN announcement was possibly aimed at MMS, they know he is an economist, and in the spirit of goodwill of an upcoming MFN status he will direct his minnons at the siachen talks to concede to Pakistani demands.

Now that the talks have ended inconclusively, one wonders if the MFN is still going to come by.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Jun 2011 01:15

Yeh talk subh show hain - chacha key liye

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2011 01:16

Lal topi aur gori dadhi wale chacha?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jun 2011 01:20

BS. Its not warrior, but desert bandit preying on innocent caravan travellers.
Now they have captured the caravan and wont let it settle down.
---------------

How Pak nukes can be jeopardised!

ISLAMABAD : It’s a nightmare scenario: al Qaeda militants gain control of a Pakistani nuclear weapon, either through a base assault, theft or a rogue commander’s cooperation, possibly in the event of hostilities with nuclear-armed neighbour India.

While most experts believe Pakistan’s strategic nuclear arsenal is safe, items such as low-yield, mobile nuclear delivery systems — called “shoot and scoot” tactical nuclear weapons — could be highly vulnerable.

The Nasr (Hatf-9) system being developed is a short-range, surface-to-surface multi-tube ballistic missile system. With a range of 60 km (37.5 miles), it’s designed for battlefield use.

Deploying small, portable nuclear weapons onto a battlefield increases the risk of things going wrong, either through miscalculation, an accident or possible infiltration by militant groups, nuclear experts say.

Here are some scenarios of how Pakistan might lose control over some of its nuclear arsenal.

Fog of (Nuclear) War

In the event of hostilities between India and Pakistan, militants could seize control of a Hatf-9 system — essentially a rocket launcher on a truck. But could they use it?

It’s necessary to understand the circumstances. In case of war between Islamabad and New Delhi, India is developing a “Cold Start” doctrine, which envisions armored battle groups quickly pushing into Pakistani territory, holding key pockets and then forcing Islamabad to the negotiating table.

The plan is to avoid antagonizing Pakistan to the point that it would retaliate with ballistic missiles against Indian cities, but Pakistani doctrine — and the Hatf-9 system — appears to envision using tactical nuclear weapons, possibly on its own soil, against the invaders.

But deploying tactical weapons to the battlefield means command and control has to be dispersed to individual military units.

And while Pakistan normally separates warheads and delivery systems, in times of crisis, weapons would be armed and deployed, although still “locked” by authentication codes, says Professor Shaun Gregory, director of the Pakistan Security Research Unit at the University of Bradford.

“However in a fluid battlefield context such codes will likely be released to prevent the weapons being overrun before they can be used,” he told Reuters in an email. “In such a ‘release delegated’ state … it’s possible that terrorists could seize a functioning weapon.”

Pakistan says its weapons have indigenously developed safety systems to prevent misuse, but it has never allowed outsiders to inspect these systems, Rahul Roy-Chaudhury, senior fellow for South Asia at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, told Reuters.

{India wont go to war even after grevious provocation. And the West knows that. Operation Parakram and post 26/11. So this scenario is humbug.}

Rogue Commanders

Another scenario is the “rogue commander”. Militant groups have had varying degrees of success in infiltrating the Pakistani military, but it’s unclear how deeply they go.

In addition to mechanical safety systems, Pakistan says its nuclear weapons are secure because of rigorous background checks and continuous monitoring of personnel for extremist sympathies.

That monitoring appears insufficient.

As far back as 2006, the United States was reporting in diplomatic cables, recently published by Wikileaks, that Pakistani pilots and flight crew were engaging in “petty sabotage” of American F-16s to prevent them being used against Taliban militants in the northwest.

The bodyguards for Punjab governor Salman Taseer were also heavily screened, but he was killed by an extremist who managed to get assigned to his security detail.

Speculation is also rife that the Taliban assaults on the PNS Mehran naval base in Karachi this month and on the Army General Headquarters in Rawalpindi in 2009 were aided by sympathisers from within the military.

While a commander going rogue is unlikely, “this is an ongoing struggle,” Roy-Chaudhury said. “The expected increase in radicalisation, especially within the Pakistani army after the U.S. raid and killing of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad … raises additional concerns.”

Rogue commanders could, in a conflict with India, hand over codes and weapons to militants or cooperate with them. The more mercenary types might simply sell them.

{Again India wont get into conflict with Pak. However rogues could grab the nukes and join the miscreants!}
Seizing A Tactical Weapon From A Base

Another possibility doesn’t require a fight with India. The PNS Mehran attack shows militants have developed the ability to attack and hold ground inside sensitive military bases. And while no nuclear facilities have been penetrated yet the possibility has caused great concern.

“I think the attack on PNS Mehran (and on the GHQ in 2009) show that terrorists are developing tactics which enable them to penetrate highly-secure bases and hold space within them for hours,” Gregory said. “This suggests nuclear weapons security is increasingly vulnerable.”

Because of their smaller size, tactical weapons are more portable. And while the warheads wouldn’t be armed, the fissile materials of the cores could conceivably be extracted and used with conventional explosives to create a “dirty bomb”.

Militants could attack a base, seize a warhead or its core materials and then escape. A Pakistani tactical nuclear weapon might contain as little as 15-20kg (33-44 lbs) of enriched uranium.

{Some of them would die of radiation poisoning and wont get the 72.}

“Responsible Pakistani stewards of their nuclear assets have no choice but to re-evaluate their security requirements and procedures,” said Michael Krepon, director of the South Asia and Space Security programs for Stimson, a Washington-based think tank for international security.

Its interesting that Crapon is worrying about TSP nukes instead of hectoring India as usual !!!

Must be serious.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Jun 2011 01:25

Gagan wrote:Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg

Javed Akhtar is a BRFite.

As far his take on Pakistan is concerned, he could be considered close to BRFite thinking, but then again any knowledgeable Indian, would have some sense of Pakistan. He does however sound like Old Congress - the Congress of some ideals! That Congress considered itself the center, between the Muslim League and the Hindu Sabha/RSS. The issue of Two-Nation Theory is still a hot point of discussion amongst those circles.

In the Old Congress school, one did not use to tackle either the history and the negative aspects of Islamic domination of the Subcontinent, nor would they discuss Islamic dogma, nor would they discuss the questionable customs in Muslim society, nor about the need for reforms in the Muslim society. All those issues are taboo. They just assert that Hindus and Muslims should be able to live together, which in my opinion is a good assertion, but they do not go ahead to specify in minute detail what compromises each society, in this case the Muslims, should undertake to become a society, which is compatible with the concept of co-existence with other communities.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 02 Jun 2011 01:28

milindc wrote:
Gagan wrote:Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg
on
Javed Akhtar is a BRFite.
No sir, he calls RSS as fascist organization.

Very good. Real guru. IMO not long ago our in-house respected mullahs were tearing each other's beard on "islamiyat something " dhaga (Alok_N's time). Here this interview answers a lot of those questions.Where is our humble hakim.........this is good material for him.

This is material for "good posts" dhaga IMO. We have to save this for new wannabe Brites.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Jun 2011 01:32

RajeshA wrote:[
In the Old Congress school, one did not use to tackle either the history and the negative aspects of Islamic domination of the Subcontinent, nor would they discuss Islamic dogma, nor would they discuss the questionable customs in Muslim society, nor about the need for reforms in the Muslim society. All those issues are taboo. They just assert that Hindus and Muslims should be able to live together, which in my opinion is a good assertion, but they do not go ahead to specify in minute detail what compromises each society, in this case the Muslims, should undertake to become a society, which is compatible with the concept of co-existence with other communities.

This was what they did psy ops on the population before the partition but they screwed the country.
The social engineering by the INC before the independence is still going on in a different type - using communal ism and fascism analogues.
The secular politics is a result of this and using media they have corrupted the political debates

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Jun 2011 01:49

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13612101

The Pakistani intelligence service has made a rare public statement to deny any involvement in the murder of journalist Saleem Shahzad.

Mr Shahzad's article about al-Qaeda infiltration in Pakistan's navy was recently published.

He reported that the militant group had launched the deadly assault on the Mehran base in Karachi, the headquarters of the navy's air wing, on 22 May because talks had failed over the release of several naval personnel arrested on suspicion of links to al-Qaeda affiliates....

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 02 Jun 2011 02:06

ISI scripted Mumbai attack, Qaida cleared it:Shahzad book

wamanrao · Post by **wamanrao** » 02 Jun 2011 02:16

Shout out for help on the Wikipedia article on the Haji Pir pass. Need to add edits to undo vandalism by you-know-who.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jun 2011 02:58

Telegraph, 2 June 2011

Enemy Within

HEED THE SIGNS OF BREWING TROUBLE
ENEMY WITHIN
The recent incident at the Faisal airbase in Karachi shows the Pakistani army in a poor light

Karachi is the only Pakistani city that has headquarters of all three branches of the armed forces: the navy, the air force and the army. It is a fortress surrounded by land, sea and air warriors. And yet this garrison gets invaded by a small band of fanatic fighters, who destroy at least two P-3C Orion ASW aircraft at the naval air station within the Faisal airbase in Karachi.

One wonders how a band of 10 to 12 armed men wreaked havoc, breaching layers of security in the high-alert defence zone of a nation that traditionally prides itself on its military prowess. Is it possible to undertake such a deadly mission deep inside a naval/air base without the help of ‘insiders’? Whatever the case may be, the fact is that the impossible has been made possible, thereby showing the State and its commanders in a poor light. The episode at Karachi clearly exposes the lack of will of the State high command to take on the ‘enemy within Pakistan’.

To analyse the present turbulence, one needs to delve into the psyche of Pakistani soldiers. It is a well-known fact that the more the turbulence in a country, the more difficult it is to keep up the morale of the men in the barracks. Pakistan now finds it hard to recruit men in the army because the Pashtun- dominated territories stretching across Kabul and Islamabad have known no peace for rather too long. Desertion and indiscipline of Afghan soldiers are now a common feature.

For Pakistani soldiers, an additional disruptive factor is their widespread sympathy for co-religionists who fall victim to the bullets of the ‘outsiders’ — the Americans. Thus, although Osama bin Laden was an ‘unwanted’ fugitive in Pakistan, he was also a Muslim killed by non-Muslims in the dead of the night. This killing had another fallout. The rank and file of the cantonment and the ‘Islamized’ officers today deeply resent the cowardice of their army chief and of the boss of the Inter-Services Intelligence.

Here one needs to appreciate the fundamentals of soldiering. First, soldiering is done for victory, and not for defeat. Second, the soldier fights an external, and not an internal, enemy. Third, soldiers like to be commanded strongly, not by weak-kneed men. Fourth, no soldier can fight in a state of mental instability, thinking about the turbulence in his village affecting the safety of his family.

So far as the armies of South Asia are concerned, one of their main binding factors has been religion. It would be wrong to assume that Pakistani soldiers would be immune to the strong religious sentiments attached to the death of a ‘cult figure’ like bin Laden.

In short, May 2011 does not augur well for Pakistan’s armed forces. The force, whose foremost and final foe was India on the eastern frontier, seems to be at a loss on feeling the heat from the west, from the Afghan border, as in Abbottabad. The men in fatigues also appear dejected with the repeated blunders of their commanding officers.

One hopes that the army chief-ISI boss duo of Islamabad will resist the temptation of playing the India card as the ultimate tool for fixing the trouble coming from the United States of America. For an army with a sinking image and the ISI with a failed chief, one hopes that the priorities of war will not override the possibility of a civil war in Pakistan.

ABHIJIT BHATTACHARYYA

Short summary he fears a civil war in TSP within the Army.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 02 Jun 2011 03:07

ramana wrote: How Pak nukes can be jeopardised!

Because of their smaller size, tactical weapons are more portable. And while the warheads wouldn’t be armed, the fissile materials of the cores could conceivably be extracted and used with conventional explosives to create a “dirty bomb”.

Militants could attack a base, seize a warhead or its core materials and then escape. A Pakistani tactical nuclear weapon might contain as little as 15-20kg (33-44 lbs) of enriched uranium.

{Some of them would die of radiation poisoning and wont get the 72.}

Its interesting that Crapon is worrying about TSP nukes instead of hectoring India as usual !!!

Must be serious.

He's repeating what the US is thinking. Those nukes do not have JPALs system as it was refused by Zardari and his advisor in circa 2007. So US was worried about one of them getting stolen and being made into a dirty bomb. The PNS Mehran could be a signal to the US - remember Salman Bashir said "it will be a catastrophe for both peoples". i.e. blackmail. See Mushy's reaction to the very question last week in BBC newsnight.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jun 2011 03:23

The Vicky Nanjappa articles post-Mehran raid made it clear that India will invoke the CMD no matter who the perpetrators are.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 02 Jun 2011 04:03

kenop wrote:Interesting things happening. Pakistaniyat is being discussed in the mainstream western media. Yesterday's Guardian had one piece on Hamid Gul and MO shunting and there was one on Asia Today's yesterday edition talking freely about the freedom related aspirations of the Baloch people.
Wow

The Brit press has always been keen in following Paki events, and that comes as no surprise when almost 4% of their population and 3% of Britain's newborn are Pakis.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 02 Jun 2011 04:25

Gagan wrote:Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg

Javed Akhtar is a BRFite.

Magnificient!! Each question posed by the bald Paki in a RAPE accent, looks like he is poking a finger in to a Lion's back, and Javed Saab puts a square danda in the Paki's Musharraf each time and rotates it !!

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Jun 2011 04:38

ramana wrote:Telegraph, 2 June 2011

Enemy Within

HEED THE SIGNS OF BREWING TROUBLE
ENEMY WITHIN
............. Pakistan now finds it hard to recruit men in the army because the Pashtun- dominated territories stretching across Kabul and Islamabad have known no peace for rather too long. Desertion and indiscipline of Afghan soldiers are now a common feature..............

If I'm interpreting his use of the word 'Afghan' correctly, then he's saying that desertions by North West Frontier Province and possibly Baloch soldiery is on the rise in the Pakjabi army.

I would love to find a source that tabulates such desertions. IMO, extremely unlikely to find any reliable data, but it has great piskological potential.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Jun 2011 04:58

Gagan wrote:Guys this is Priceless:
Javed Akhtar explains things to a Pakistani on Dawn News.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-D-_-Z98U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMets71aQgg

Javed Akhtar is a BRFite.

Pure BS. We have had even worse BRFites. He is doing a == between Hinduism and Islam by hiding behind Christian fascism construct. He also does == between RSS and ML.

This is nothing but the fallacy of the Christian construct [sic] secularism.

RSS is a nationalist organization. It is funny that people don't know the difference. Secondly neither RSS nor VHP are fascist (they don't say other faiths/races are inferior).

These dumb [sic] secularists don't understand that the pluralistic dharma of Hinduism is what gives the highest freedom of faith in the world.

It is funny how our hatred for Pakis makes us fall for the tricks of these [sic] secularists.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Jun 2011 05:16

A theory from a friend:
The murder of SSS is a way to make his story (al Qaeda in navy) credible and misdirect from the real story which must be infinitely more embarrassing; so much so that they would sacrifice SSS.