Of all the darned problems with the T-90, the thermal imager issue is the most serious. There are a couple of folks on this forum who have decided facts be darned, rodina be praised and tied their ego to the T-90 full time. As such, any report critical of the T-90 is from the "Arjun lobby" or the evull Ajai Shukla etc.
For the rest of the folks who still have the desire to look at hard issues, dispassionately, these reports should show the trend. They are from multiple / different sources, including official ones, the diversity deliberately chosen, as are the different years to show that the issue persists.
Lets begin with 2008.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... ks-systems
NEW DELHI: With the Army's T-90 Main Battle Tanks (MBT) facing heat due to failure of fire control systems at very high temperatures, the government has floated Request for Information (RFI) for integrating air-conditioning system along with additional power source in its entire fleet of the Russian tanks.
"A large fleet of T-90 tanks would require to be fitted with environment control system with Auxillary Power Unit (APU), following Indian Army's decision to upgrade the T-90 equipment," top Army sources said.
The failure of fire control systems and its computerised sensors and sophisticated panels were noticed during T-90 trials in Rajasthan deserts, where systems conked off while operating in temperatures over 45 degree Celsius, sources said.
................
Though Defence Ministry (MOD) was keen that the environment control system was integrated within India, it would not be averse to the idea of foreign companies participating in the upgrade programme, but would have to conform to the new off-set clause in its Defence Procurement Policy announced in 2006 aimed at energising Indian defence industry.
Through RFI, India wanted interested companies to state if they were willing to provide the equipment for trials at 'No Cost No Commitment' basis, and the level of technology they would transfer to a firm nominated by MOD for the equipment's integration into the entire fleet of T-90s.
The RFI asked private companies, interested in the upgrade programme and integration of cooling systems, to declare their Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) status or authorisation from OEMs to deal with MOD.
"It is going to be a major task to integrate the environment control system along with APU in the first lot of 310 T-90s, and later in future lots of 1,000 and 330 tanks," sources said.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) would be roped in for the project that would require some hardcore re-engineering work, as the tank was already jam-packed with equipment and had no more space for an air-conditiong unit.
The evil Ajai Shukla writes in July 2008.
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 005_1.html
India`s future tank nowhere in sight
....
Meanwhile, the 310 T-90s, which have been delivered by Russia and introduced into service, are not battle worthy. The crucial Fire Control System (FCS), through which the tank fires at the enemy, has failed to function in Indian summers. An obliging Russian industry offered to sell India “tank air conditioners”, though no other tank in our inventory needs or uses air-conditioning.
The Russian air-conditioners were put through trials, during which the tank driver fainted from heatstroke. Now the MoD has floated a global tender for air-conditioning the T-90s.
Now we come to 2009. Has the issue been resolved?
Aug 25, 2009. Note report is from known DRDO/DPSU baiter Rajat Pandit, hardly a person to carry any reports on DPSU behalf.
You can use google to determine the date, some eight years after T-90s were ordered..
http://mobiletoi.timesofindia.com/mobil ... blabel=TOI
Dark days for army tanks
Bid To Equip Them With Night-Fighting Abilities Hangs Fire
New Delhi: The majority of army tanks continue to grope in the dark,stricken as they are with an acute case of night blindness,in yet another example of the Indian defence establishments inability to take timely decisions in tune with strategic concerns.
The armys long-standing objective to equip its mechanised forces,including the over 1,600 T-72 tanks which form the backbone of the countrys armoured might,with advanced night-fighting capabilities is still a long distance from fruition,say sources.
For instance,the armys case for acquiring 700 TISAS (thermal imaging stand alone systems) and 418 TIFACS (thermal fire control systems) for its T-72 fleet at a cost of around Rs 1,150 crore is still hanging fire at the commercial negotiations stage.
This when the acceptance of necessity for the TISAS equipment was approved in March 2001.The capability to conduct effective operations to hit the enemy after sunset is crucial, a source said.
But the TISAS case has been stuck for a long time,resulting in continued inadequacy of night-fighting capability of the armoured corps, he added.
Similarly,the infantry too continues to grapple with only second-generation thermal imaging (TI) systems when third-generation ones are required in large numbers to conduct operations after sunset.
The defence ministry,on its part,says the contracts for TISAS and TIFACS for the T-72 fleet are likely to be concluded within the 2009-2010 fiscal.One of the main reasons for the delay has been the failure of defence PSU Bharat Electronics Ltd to resolve technology transfer issues with the foreign supplier.
The army did get 300 Israeli TISAS for its T-72 tanks in 2001,which were followed by 3,860 image intensifier-based night-vision devices.But the experience with them has been uneven,with the integration of some of these thermal equipment with fire control systems running into problems.
Even the 310 T-90 S mainbattle tanks (MBTs) imported from Russia,for over Rs 3,625 crore under a February 2001 contract,have faced problems with their French Catherine TI cameras.
Not being adequately tropicalised,the Catherine TI cameras have often malfunctioned in the extreme heat of the Rajasthan deserts.
Incidentally,the armys requirement for 1,781 MBTs to replace the older T-55 and T-72 tanks is going to be met through the progressive induction of 1,657 T-90 S tanks and 124 of the indigenous Arjuns.
So now we get to 2010.
T-90s- after a lot of pressure, are finally put up against the Arjun, and are promptly outgunned. Something the T-90 support group claims is a media conspiracy, bias, made up by Ajai Shukla etc. Finally, we all know its out in the open since a variety of credible sources, from Col rtd Gulshan Luthra to VK Saraswat all mention it.
But what also happened in the trials is here..
http://archive.tehelka.com/story_main47 ... efence.asp
Again, source of the report, Tehelka,
Nov 2010, hardly any DPSU shill.
Here is what it says - note that T-90s faced issues with their thermal imagers, a continuing issue, and that the Army, is unable to fix the problem itself but is trying to aircondition the tanks. Easier said than done, because ACs soak up engine HP - which means higher fuel burn, and also reduced manoeuverability. Putting limited environmental control systems is also not an easy task, because the T-72/90 have little to no space inside to fit extra gear.
Russian-built T-90 tanks’ thermal imaging system flawed
Army suffers an estimated loss of Rs 620 crore
BY Ritu Sharma
Delhi
The Indian Army has detected flaws with the thermal imaging system of the Russian-built T-90 main battle tanks (MBTs), inducted in its fleet three years ago, causing an estimated loss of Rs 620 crore.
Rechristened as ‘Bhishma,’ T-90s’ flaw came to light during its comparative trials with the indigenous MBT Arjun during peak summers in the Thar Desert of Rajasthan.
According to the report submitted by the Indian Army, the French Catherine thermal imaging (TI) camera giving T-90s its night vision capability and higher precision is not “adequately tropicalised.” It simply cannot function in the extreme condition for which it was supposed to function. Because of this the thermal imaging camera is prone to malfunction in extreme temperature conditions of Rajasthan, where it is deployed.
“During the trials it was observed that the temperatures inside the tank goes up to 55-60 degree Celsius resulting in the blurring of images taken by the camera,” a senior Indian Army officer told Financial World on condition of anonymity as he was not authorised to speak to media.
Following the repeated delay in the MBT Arjun project, the Indian Army had opted for Russian-made T-90 tanks to counter-balance Pakistan’s acquisition of Ukraine-built T-80 tanks. Majority of T-90s would be deployed in the western sector bordering Pakistan, where mercury soars to intolerable levels during summers.
The report describes the thermal imaging cameras as the ‘eyes’ of the tank. While the tank costs around Rs 12 crore, each of these systems cost (including) Rs 2 crore. Prolonged use of the tank in extreme weather conditions has already rendered 80-90 of such systems “unserviceable.”
The Indian Army is deliberating to get a locally effective air conditioning system for the thermal imaging camera. However, nothing concrete has happened on this front.
French defence major Thales Land and Joint Systems had signed a contract with Russian Rosoboronexport to supply Catherine thermal imaging cameras for T-90s in 2007. The camera operates in the 8-12 micrometre infrared frequency band and is designed to be retrofitted into existing main battle tank fire control system. Russia started licensed production of the cameras earlier this year.
This is not the first time the T-90 project has run into problems. In 2001 India had contracted for 310 T-90 tanks for Rs 3,625 crore. Out these 310 tanks, 124 were purchased off the shelf, while the rest 184 were bought in semi-knocked down conditions and were to be assembled at Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) at Avadi in Tamil Nadu. There was a follow-on contract for 330 T-90s.
Under the contract, Russia was to complete transfer of technology to India for indigenous manufacturing of 1,000 T-90s at HVF by 2006. However, following chronic delay in technology transfer the first indigenous T-90 tank rolled out of the factory only in 2010.
Earlier, lack of cooling systems inside the tank led to uninhabitable temperatures of 60 degree Celsius. This made the Indian Army scout for an air conditioning system for the tank. The fire control systems of T-90s also suffered malfunctions on various occasion.
Posted on November 17, 2010
Oh, but these are from journos, TOI/Tehelka etc etc.. not Army guys who like the Army etc.
Wait.
March 2012.
http://www.spslandforces.net/story.asp?id=163
Indian Army Modernisation – An Introspection
By Lt General (Retd) P.C. Katoch
Yes, the same general Katoch who appears on TV etc and is willing to speak his mind on Pak perfidy etc. In short, not a fence sitter.
Here is what he writes.
Earlier 310 x T-90 tanks had been ordered from Russia, of which 124 fully assembled tanks were directly imported from Russia and 186 kits were imported for assembly in India. The first indigenously assembled T-90S rolled out from the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi in January 2004. Additional 347 x T-90S tanks have been inducted into service which brings the total to 647 x T-90S tanks. Defects in fire control systems of T-90S tanks due to excessive heating of turrets during summer is being remedied through air conditioning.
Oh Katoch is now not official. He is retired, yada yada yada.
Here again. 2012.
http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/ ... 310512.pdf
REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ON AIR CONDITIONER WITH
AUXILLARY POWER UNIT (APU) IN TANK T-90S/SK
Now - we are in 2013. End. Has the Indian Army procured any Air Conditioning for the T-90s? Something which they would have noted, publicized?
No.
Have they managed to get limited Environmental Cooling Systems to rectify this issue?
No.
The usual one poster who denies everything "bad" related to the T-90 will promptly declare merely because a RFI is posted, all is well and problem is solved. For the rest of the folks - here are things to consider.
T-90s ordered in 2001. Twelve years later, problem with its most crucial and basic sensor for fire control persists. In contrast, Arjun was put through umpteen trials till a ruggedized TI/GCS combo was proven. Yet former has 1600+ orders. Second, has to literally beg for 124+. Compare and contrast.
As of 2013, the T-90 AC option is still hanging fire - as it has over the past several years - Arjun has no AC and needs no AC.
The above one case, speaks volumes about how the T-90 was procured and how it was rushed through and further orders placed, even though it was clearly not proven.
The problem remains.
We keep buying exta TIs, and are attempting on our own to solve Russian design flaws. The Russians - laughing all the way to the bank. And this was a good deal and apparently helped us.. meanwhile Arjun, with a FCS that works is going through trial after trial. In no other country, would such a farce have gone on so long ..
”
