India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

[Sanatanan]

With reference to Theo-ji's post above:

It might still be possible to salvage the situation at Kudankulam (editorial, Oct. 13) by adopting a “distance criterion” — an additional safeguard in the event of a possible mishap, which I evolved in 1985 when I was chairman of the Gujarat Pollution Control Board, after the Bhopal tragedy. “Distance criterion” is the creation of a sterile zone for a radius of 15 km for nuclear stations.

A "sterilsed zone" concept is stipulated by AERB as one of the site selection criteria for all nuclear plants. See Figure 2 in Monograph On Siting Of Nuclear Power Plants, which shows the exclusion zone (EZ) of 1.5 km, sterilsed zone (SZ) of 5 km and an emergency planning zone (EPZ) of 16 km radius around the plant. It may be seen from the figure that the plant boundary, exclusion zone, sterilsed zone are all obrounds in a multi-unit project (such as at Koodangulam) where the reactors are all located (may be for advantageous technical reasons) along a straight line.

In Tamil Nadu, the concept of sterilsed zone is enshrined in the "Tamilnadu Nuclear Installation (Regulation of building and use of land) Act, 1978". I notice that in this Act, "nuclear installation" has been specifically defined to be the Kalpakkam complex. I am not sure whether any amendment to the Act has been subsequently notified to include Koodangulam as well. Also, the "sterilised area" has been defined to be "4.8 km from any portion of the boundary of such nuclear installation . . . ", whereas the AERB document implies it is 5 km radius around the centre of the plant.

While all land within the plant boundary and exclusion zone will be acquired by the Project authorities, that falling in the sterilsed zone will not be so acquired. On the other hand, according to this Notification of 1990 pertaining to the Act,

The nuclear installation local authority shall not grant licence to the organised development of housing within the sterilised area, the development of industries and industrial activity and other operations allied to mining which would necessitate employment of large number of people within the sterilised area.

According to me, it is this policy of neither acquiring nor allowing any (particularly industrial or other profitable) development in the sterilsed zone that riles people and causes opposition to nuclear power projects. The value of the land in the sterilised zone is reduced to zero. It is like forcibly converting lucrative fixed deposits into a non-interest bearing Current Account in a bank. The unfortunate terminology used for describing the zone (although may be accurate in expressing the intent behind it), reminding people of the population control methods adopted, is an added negative point. As far as I know, such a "sterilsed-zone-around-npp" concept does not exist anywhere else in the world.

However as per an AERB document released in August 2010, the exclusion zone (EZ) has been reduced from 1.5 km around the plant to 1 km around the plant.

Since the sterilsed zone has not been correspondingly reduced, in effect it would mean that the sterilsed area would be more, while the cost of acquisition to the project would get reduced.

I feel that, while radius of the emergency planning zone (EPZ) could be increased from 16 km to 30 km based on Fukushima experience (no land acquisition or land use controls in the EPZ), we must do away with the sterilised zone concept.

In my view, when all is said and done, advantages of nuclear power outweighs disadvantages often cited premised on black swan events happening. In nuclear power projects, by all means, let us place continual emphasis on enhancement of design robustness, incorporating safety related backfits where found necessary, and improve and maintain "safety culture" amongst the plant builders, operators, maintainers, regulatory authorities, plant owners, administrators, general public and law makers. Stopping development is not the way forward, in the present day technological world.

[sum]

From red carpet to furious protests. Officials of Nuclear Power Corporation of India (NPCIL) remember the arches raised to welcome them to Kudankulam not long ago, and wonder why people have turned against the nuclear power plant now.As protestors continue to gather outside the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KNPP) and block all entry points, officials say they are baffled, wondering why a 180-degree turn and calls to vacate the area, about 650 km from here in Tirunelveli district.

Seems to be a massive failure of our counter-intel to allow a free run to outsiders in that area to poison the environment so much...

[vishvak]

From red carpet to furious protests. Officials of Nuclear Power Corporation of India (NPCIL) remember the arches raised to welcome them to Kudankulam not long ago, and wonder why people have turned against the nuclear power plant now.As protestors continue to gather outside the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KNPP) and block all entry points, officials say they are baffled, wondering why a 180-degree turn and calls to vacate the area, about 650 km from here in Tirunelveli district.

Seems to be a massive failure of our counter-intel to allow a free run to outsiders in that area to poison the environment so much...

As also an absence of any requirement on clarifications on why Christian clerics are protesting here against nuclear power and not in Europe for new nuclear reactors being constructed.

If such double standards are now acceptable in public discourse, it only means that while Europe can leverage nuclear technology for human rights, Indians can not for human rights as per this! It is but an attempt to differentiate human rights based on location, but as per conventions on human rights (UN declaration of human rights), it is not based on location.

[Tanaji]

Why the entire 123 is perfection itself. The perfect agreement, by the most perfect of governments, the UPA, signed by the most perfect of PM's MMS. Of course in all other cases MMS is a low lying curr who works for the ISI. All who question it work for the Pope.

Are you denying that the Churches in the area are taking a very prominent and active role in the agitation?

What should happen is a scrutiny of finances of these churches as regards their funding. How much of that comes from the US? Who are the donors to these agitations? What is the compliance of such donors and recipients to FERA?

[JE Menon]

Protests called off

[chetak]

Protests called off

Only temporarily until the elections have been completed

[Pratyush]

RTI: Kalpakkam N-plant has poor safety records

Since the report in question does not mention the dosage of radiation received by the workers in the plant over a period of time. It is difficult to come to the conclusion of Poor safety standards of the NPP.

yet another example of how the Media instead of educating the masses contributes to the generation of fear and uncertainty in the minds of the lay public.

[svenkat]

My 2c.
I was outraged when I saw the Bishops.Now we know their instigation,what beyond?
1)The Church has a one point agenda,but we cannot stoop to their level.
2)We have to face the situation(Not that BRF is managing the problem) as if there is no christist angle and then factor the distortions the church brings in.
3)It is wrong to think only christists are involved,there are other socio-economic factors.It is the responsibility of GOI to assure the fishermen without appeasement on socio-religious angle.
4)The GOI,we hope,will rise to the occassion.

[Philip]

Excellent above points.The churches,bishops et al,should instead be protesting in Europe and the US against their countries selling N-plants to India if they feel so strongly against N-power! Why is there a stony silence on this?Apart from Germany,which has abandoned N-power,and is using other avenues,the desire to sell N-tech to the "turd world" is as high as ever.Hypocrisy.

[vishvak]

Excellent above points.The churches,bishops et al,should instead be protesting in Europe and the US against their countries selling N-plants to India if they feel so strongly against N-power! Why is there a stony silence on this?Apartf rom germany,which has abandoned N-power,and is using other avenues,the desire to sell N-tech to the "turd world" is as high as ever.Hypocrisy.

Excellent post, according to my views. This needs clarification as soon as possible from representatives & leadership of the Church.

Ex. South Korea has research programs as per link. Per List of nuclear reactors, South Korea will construct 7 more of 3 types(link) and plan 4 more. Finland is building another at its western border (link). French are earning in billions of Francs with companies like Areva (link) & Électricité de France(link). The French also signed nuclear deals with UAE as per link.

Per BREAKING: Explosion rocks French nuclear facility; no radiation leaks apparent

But France is also one of the largest European nations not to reconsider the use of nuclear power as the crisis in Japan grinds on.

This after an accident.

However there is hardly any protest over these nuclear plants.

What factors differentiate the behavior at protests in India and silence elsewhere?

When thousands of nuclear plants were built all over the world, why were there no protests?

[Jarita]

My 2c.
I was outraged when I saw the Bishops.Now we know their instigation,what beyond?
1)The Church has a one point agenda,but we cannot stoop to their level.
2)We have to face the situation(Not that BRF is managing the problem) as if there is no christist angle and then factor the distortions the church brings in.
3)It is wrong to think only christists are involved,there are other socio-economic factors.It is the responsibility of GOI to assure the fishermen without appeasement on socio-religious angle.
4)The GOI,we hope,will rise to the occassion.

This question may have been posed before but has it been a french reactor, would the church reps be playing such an active role? Maybe the church is mixing business and religion.

[Theo_Fidel]

Sanatan,

Good post. I would point out that at least at Kudankulam the exclusion zone to 5 km Diameter (not radius) has been physically acquired by the plant and a 10' fence has been put up around it. All villagers have been kicked out and no other economic activity is permitted in this area. Large chunks of the sea have been permanently barred from fishing as well. Further land acquisition is planned to add more units. Due to this the number of jobs in area has incredibly declined. This is a huge part of the opposition. Why do we take the risks while other get all the benefits. Almost all long term employment has gone to outsiders who live within the facility and do not go outside.

The Sterilization zone restrictions have not kicked in yet. There is bound to be a heck of a lot more heartburn when that happens. Estimates are that about 50,000 people live in the sterilization zone itself! There not even a minimal plan for their evacuation during any incident.

If planning extends to 30 km as you suggest about 2 million people live in that area. Including Panakudi, Nagerkovil, Airuvadi, etc. This is what concerns people as well.

[Sanku]

http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4386743.cms

N-row explodes: Jaya takes on PM

The Koodankulam Nuclear plant row has now turned into an all out Centre versus state war. The Tamil Nadu Chief Minister J Jayalalithaa has taken on the Centre once again, this time accusing it of playing a blame game rather than allaying the fears of the people about the Koodankulam Plant.

"Work at Koodankulam should not continue till public fears are allayed and that continues to be our stand. PM promised a joint committee, nothing has happened. I suspect centre is trying to play blame game against State Govt. The Centre should stop playing these blame games," she said in a statement.

She says that PMs letter was sent to media much before it was sent to her, in fact one of the letters in the media has apparently not reached her yet.


======================

Gentle Rakshaks; the Nuclear matters in India are COMPLETELY POLITICIZED by the good honest economist Manmohan Singh who also occupies the PMs post.

Trying to analyze matters as Strategic/Power/Economy/Technical issues are now meaningless, at least till we have a dispensation at center for whom Nuclear matters are not methods to achieve other ends.

Just saying.

[SSridhar]

Both Ms. Jayalalitha and the Congress are trying to politically damage the other in the Koodankulam issue. No TN Chief Minister can say that Koodankulam must be shut down or even delayed. At various times, they have expressed displeasure that the project was getting delayed.

There is such a premium on land in India that even at Pokhran or around Sriharikota or Balasore, villagers have to be evacuated every time there is an activity. The Fukushima tragedy must spur the AERB to incorporate higher safety features in Indian sites especially because we in India pay less attention to safety issues and tend to cut corners in project implementation. Our maintenance standards are also mostly abysmal most of the time because normally insufficient funds are allocated for that and/or because of a lackadaisical approach.

While fears may be genuine, GoI must explain comprehensively the project details to the fisherfolk. At the same time, they should look into the roots of this agitation to see if there is instigation by religious groups linked with foreign governments/agencies and take strong action.

[SSridhar]

Kudankulam expansion put off

If the commissioning of the first two units of Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP) has been stalled by protests from the locals backed by the State Government, the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) is sweating it out with the Union Ministry of Environment and Forests (MoEF) to obtain final clearance for units three to six (KKNPP 3–6).

MoEF's Expert Appraisal Committee once again deferred the expansion proposal at its 105 {+t} {+h} meeting held immediately after the locals called off indefinite strike at Kudankulam after Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Jayalalithaa announced that the State cabinet would pass a resolution seeking suspension of KKNPP on September 21.

This time around, NPCIL, the project proponent, was asked to submit documentary evidence in support of its statement that the plant was having the most advanced safety features, termed “first of its kind” in safety aspect, as it has a wider ramification in the context of what was happening around the world on similar developments.

The proposal was not acceptable as it still showed construction of an open channel for outfall which could result in various environmental problems, including the adverse impact on the marine life. Once again, the proponent was advised to consider a pipeline for disposal.

Noting that the plant elevation was designed for tsunami and flooding with sufficient conservatism, the committee said this should be further amplified with a comparison of connected parameters with normal conditions highlighting the additional provisions made to withstand tsunami effects and the method adopted for quantification.

Deferring the proposal after making the above observations, the committee decided to consider the proposal afresh after its observations were addressed and submitted for reconsideration. The EAC had earlier rejected the proposal in May in its 99 {+t} {+h} meeting raising five pertinent points to be answered.

The new proposal involves setting up of four additional reactors in the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP) as Units 3 to 6 (each of 1000 MW) similar in design and to be located adjacent to the first two units, which are to be commissioned in a few months. NEERI has carried out comprehensive Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) study for the expansion. HTL/LTL demarcation has been done through CESS, Trivandrum.

According to the project proponent, the plant's active safety systems have a backup of passive safety systems. The plant system, structures and components are designed for earthquake, explosions and other natural calamities and the reactor building was designed to take care of an aircraft crash of Cessna type aircraft.

[Pratyush]

Yet another self injury inflicted upon the nation by our "beloved politicians". With leaders like this we have no need of external enemies.

[SSridhar]

From a vernacular report, "What is happening in Kudankulam ? Behind the scene action"
Translated excerpts

The coordinator for the agitators is a person who completed Ph. D. in the US. He is strengthening the agitation by co-opting the Parish priests of Kootapuli (sp ?),Idinthakarai, Periyavilai, Kudankulam as well as the Archdiocese at Madurai & Tuticorin.. Claiming himself to be a member of the local 'Fernando fishermen', he has included the fisherfolk also into the agitation. As the Priest who heads the southern districts within the Church is from Kudankulam itself, he is also leading the agitation for his part. Those who gave up their lands to the KK plant and those who are employed there want the plant to become operational but are keeping silent because of pressure from those around. The order by the Cardinal at Mumbai and the Archbishop at Delhi to transfer the Priests at Kootapuli and Idinthakarai has been discarded by the lower level hierarchy in the Church. It is being alleged that the Coordinator is receiving money from shady powers. The responsibility of taking this agitation through the media to the the outside world has been taken up by a mineral prospector from the region. His support is because of his business being affected by the KKNPP as no prospecting is possible within a radius of 15 Kms.

[gakakkad]

Yet another self injury inflicted upon the nation by our "beloved politicians". With leaders like this we have no need of external enemies.

We should just put one condition...If you want to protest against power plants than you ll have to stop taking electricity from the union of India... the protestors power supply should be cut off for life....

[Sanku]

Yet another self injury inflicted upon the nation by our "beloved politicians". With leaders like this we have no need of external enemies.

We should just put one condition...If you want to protest against power plants than you ll have to stop taking electricity from the union of India... the protestors power supply should be cut off for life....

I know you are not really being "serious" in that point. However, anyway let me say that this is NOT the way to go.

As long as the protesters are peaceful do not damage property etc you have to convince them, win them etc. Mass retribution is not a option, irrespective of whether they are "right" or "wrong" (for example I never supported the agitation against Sardar Sarovar, but the state was forced to talk to the people affected and make their peace with them)

Of course foreign intervention to run agitations based on vested intrests of extra national intrests is possibly the worst sort of thing that can happen to a country -- however the problem has been that the central govt seems to not be too bothered with such issues, they range from Fai network fishermen being made interlocutors, Maoists becoming members of NAC, charges of deciding National policy on Nuclear matters by the Govt itself outside the country.

The list is long -- the point is? Once you start down the slippery slope of letting the Govt itself get influenced by outside forces, there is not moral ground that you can use or a systematic policy to stop interference.

Our country has become a free for in terms of others meddling, sooner or later it will influence critical areas (it already has -- remember Renuka C and denel issues?) -- the root cause of this problem is elsewhere.

[Philip]

Sridhar's post reinforces what I've been alleging right from the start.The GOI must take the severest action action against these quislings,based upon sound,solid evidence and convict them in a court of law.The money trail must be followed and it will show us who the shadowy puppeteers of this conspiratorial agitaion are.Simultaneously,however,the GOI/AEC must go on a massive campaign to educate and counter the false and malicious propaganda being thrown at our plans for energy and N-power self-sufficiency.The news that furuter epansion is being put on hold is a veritable disaster.The vested interests have to be put in their place.

[vishvak]

As a side note, a UK Govt-affiliated fuel-plant is closed and Japanese utilities have 'accepted the closure'. Hopefully Indians are not sending any spent fuel anywhere near such places.

The nation's 10 utilities jointly bore the expenses for renovating the Sellafield-based plant, owned by the British government-affiliated Nuclear Decommissioning Authority, but the British side determined Japan would no longer need MOX fuel in light of the Fukushima No. 1 crisis, and has decided to close it.
...
They had sent spent nuclear fuel to the Sellafield plant since 1969, but it has so far produced no MOX fuel for Japan due to a series of plant troubles.

The utilities accepted the closure, so they couldn't charge a penalty for breach of contract

Are the first world counties required, in a sense of partnership, to be more bilateral/social about determining such closures?

U.K. MOX plant closure to cost utilities billions

[Theo_Fidel]

As long as we are busy calling people traitors, with zero proof other than wild accusations, it should be pointed out that for the locals the permanently foreign settled/educated are considered as Quislings as well.

Lets keep in mind during the Sethu agitation, this exact same group was busy raising money to stop a project. Much of it in foreign countries. No traitorous quisling type activity there I suppose. I must point out that several bishops opposed that project as well. Traitors every last one of them.

Once we start calling people living in our nation traitors the finger will eventually point directly at you. Lets make sure to round them ALL up and throw them into the sea while we are at it. That should depopulate our lands right there. Will depopulate our board quick time as well based on so many posts I've seen. There was a wajb-u-cutlet type, marked for be-heading post earlier. Maybe members could suggest more names for beheading. Esp. names of people they have never met in a place they have never visited. Patriotism, the last refuge of every scoundrel. Bah!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some pictures of protestors. After all they should all make traitor list. Cut electricity for all of them as well. All CIA/Pope inspired traitors.

[member_19686]

Of course this all has nothing to do with the Church's long history of being the handmaiden of Western imperialism or the Christians support for both the Christian British Raj & Portugal.

If someone committed rape repeatedly in the past and is now again caught in a compromised situation, most sane people would be suspicious but the Church is different!

It is after all "Gods" representative on Earth, so what if in the past they shamelessly got the Inquisition started in India against Hindus and told their flock to be loyal servants to the Raj or Portugal.

These dishonest fellows (I mean the Church leaders) whose shameless leader came to India and instead of apologizing to the Hindus for the atrocities his Church carried out spoke of some "harvest" during Deepavali, they are in no position to lead any protests or claim any moral high ground.

They need a swift kick in their backside, for a start take away the property they forcibly usurped from Hindus.

[vishvak]

^^How did these people collect 1000 crores?

[Jarita]

Catholic Church involved in Kudankulam agitation: Dr. Swamy asks for PM's explanation

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.a ... 860&SKIN=B

Statement of Dr. Subramanian Swamy,
President of the Janata Party.



I demand an explanation from the Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh as to why his Secretary Mr. Pulok Chatterji, with the help of the Maharashtra Chief Minister Mr. Prithviraj Chavan, has entered into negotiations with the Catholic Church in Mumbai to help resolve the protests taking place against the Kudankulam Nuclear Plant. Does this mean that the Catholic Church is behind the agitation in which case it is highly objectionable and calls for action under IPC Sections 153A & B, 295A and 505(2). It also exposes that the PMO is under the clutches of the Catholic Church probably due to the extra-constitutional authority exercised by the now ailing Ms Sonia Gandhi who appears to regard Mr. Pulok Chatterji with the PMO as her personal civil domestic servant judging by his role when she was hospitalized in New York. During the period of her hospitalization, Mr. Pulok Chatterji was frequently seen arranging for pizza and other snacks for her large Italian entourage numbering about fifty and living in plush apartments in New York close to the hospital.

The Prime Minister, if he is committed to secular, that is, not prejudiced against the majority Hindu community and biased in favour of the Christians because they are patrons of Ms. Sonia Gandhi, should put an end to this condemnable negotiation on the viability of the Kudankulam Plant. The Church has no business to decide whatsoever on whether a new reactor set up after Government approval is to be opposed or supported. Let the Catholic Church restrict itself to religious matters otherwise persons like myself would be free to investigate the practices of the Church such as in appointment of Bishops on direction from the Vatican, and receipt of funds from abroad.

[sanjaykumar]

So the pope did not apologise for the sins of god's chosen people. But did anyone, the geriatric charioteer perhaps, demand a mea culpa?

Either demonstrate your contempt, or acquiesce in their's.

[shiv]

Here are some pictures of protestors. After all they should all make traitor list. Cut electricity for all of them as well. All CIA/Pope inspired traitors.

Theo. These people normally do not have the money to waste on demonstrations nor the time. I am sure they don't get much eletricity now but want some more in future. Like all political rallies these people are transported in trucks and and vans like cattle and dumped for the photo op. They are probably paid Rs 10 and given a meal as well. It would be equally possible to truck in the same people to demand a nuclear plant if Empress Jayalalitha wanted that.

If you look at the way things work in India a delay of a year or two is normal. If the plant work goes on INC and Karunanidhi will take credit. The political game would be to discredit some people and let someone else take credit. That plant will come up alright.

[svenkat]

Shivji,
I think you are wrong.I am not denying coercion and money.The Church has played a very big role.The fishermen community are cconverts.In TN,they are not 'part of mainstream' being found only in coastal areas.It is the cultivated plains(both river fed and rain fed) that dominates tamizh landscape though ancient tamizh literature talks of mountain,desert,coastal lands,forests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangam_landscape

Kudankulam is a combination of desert+coast.Sort of ideal for nuclear plants.But with your knowledge of India,you would know these are 'cultural backwaters'.And Christism can have profound influence,if they start hitting below the belt.You would know,sir and I remember you mentioning that the Indian civilisation arose in an agricultural seetting.There was no effort at homogenisation.In fact even in christist and Islamic nations,there is great cultural diversity.

Kudankulam protests can be easily engineered given the background of tamizh nationalism+christism.We talk of 1.2 billion people.All of them are not some imagined TFTA castes.Infact even the numerically dominant christian nadaars of the adjoining areas do not have any great say in the social justice capital of the world political parties-DMK/ADMK which are dominated at the top by thevars,gounders,vellalas and vanniars,the TFTA among the SDRE tamizh castes.

Over and beyond thse are genuine fears/misinformation.Inspite of all this,Indian democracy has some genuine credits.The living standards/education/empowerment of the numerically dominant naadar and other communities has gone up by several notches and the victimisation card will not work.Given the history and nature of our civilisation,we are fundamentally a reasonable and peace loving people who are responsible and take an even handed view of things,even admitting to 'our foibles'.And things will settle down inspite of the draamabaazi of Jaya and others.

[shiv]

Kudankulam protests can be easily engineered given the background of tamizh nationalism+christism.We talk of 1.2 billion people.All of them are not some imagined TFTA castes.Infact even the numerically dominant christian nadaars of the adjoining areas do not have any great say in the social justice capital of the world political parties-DMK/ADMK which are dominated at the top by thevars,gounders,vellalas and vanniars,the TFTA among the SDRE tamizh castes.

The photo below is very interesting. I estimate a crowd of at least 300 in that photo. I counted 100 and guestimated the rest). there might be a row of men standing right at the back, but all the visible faces are female. There is almost no woman below 30 in that image. There are no children. 20% of the people should be kids below 15. Where are they? The younger women and children have been left at home.



To collect a crowd of 300 or more women above 30 you have to arrange buses, lorries and vans. The people would have been brought in from surrounding towns and villages which is absolutely typical of any political meeting in India. The reason for bringing them would typically be a lie and a small gift. The transport of so many people can only be done by private bus/lorry owners and that takes money. That money will show up on their books.

How the people were enticed and brought, and who paid for all this will be an open secret that the papers don't seem to be reporting. Any person who can organise such a crowd would be my potential friend and ally if he could get these people to vote for me. If he went to my political opponent I would be worried. So everyone will know what is going on. We can blame pope, mullah, allah anyone, but whet is shown in the photo is hardly in the genre of voluntary Greenpeace workers clashing with police in the UK. This is Indian rent-a-crowd. If a minor political leader in India cannot rent a crowd of this sort he is useless. Such crowds are being produced all the time. You lie to them and make them come. Arrange pick up and drop. Arrange a meal. Pay them some money or give them a sari. This is normal. 2000 people. 50 vehicles at 2000 a day. Pay each person Rs 50. 2 Lakhs and its done. Peanuts.

It is the uniqueness of BRF that we the English speaking elite with half the members living abroad want to discuss US elections years before they take place but work ourselves up into a frenzy about crowds in India. india is a crowded place. If you can produce a crowd you call yourself leader. Tens of thousands of such gatherings occur across India every week. But we think about them only when it upsets our pet peeves. Otherwise we discuss US elections which we can understand. Who can understand why 300 women over 30 years would collect and shout slogans? If someone tells us it is the Church fighting India to the ground, we will believe it. We don't even know what those women have been told. It may be true. It may not be true. Fact is that some of the Churches of converted Christians in India are among the most corrupt and caste ridden institutions on earth. You need to see what is happening in "institutions" like Bishop Cotton's School in Bangalore, or even St. Martha's. India exists with such rotten people fighting rotten battles on the ground. Yediyurappa, Janardhan Reddy and YSR made a fine trio I guess. Yediyurappa the loyal RSS Pracharak, Janardhan Reddy gifting a 100 crore crown to Tirupati and YSR the Christist. All rotten bustards who used religion when they needed it and were secular when necessary. You think that piddling Pope is going to get anywhere? Are you serious? He and his piddling Church may be powerful in the west, but its downright dirty here. Branding them all as "Pope pasand Christists" is a mistake. The Pope may want them but he ain't gonna get them easily. There are plenty of others who want them too. I would become Christist in a trice if I could make 20 crores in the next year. And that is cheap.

When the time is right all these protesters will get money and nuclear power will become clean again.

[Theo_Fidel]

People would not gather if the local elders did not want it. From that limited point of view Shiv is right that this crowd has been gathered together by the local elders. It is the local elders who have lost confidence in the Atomic establishment. It is they who own the fishing boats, the land, shops, businesses and schools that are slowly being squeezed. It is they who provide the pandal and the food for these protestors. They are the ones you see in the distant background typically seated on a chair. This is entirely the failing of Government & Nuclear establishment. 6 months ago right after Fukushima I warned that things had shifted and the Govt warned of that as well. Nothing was done locally to address concerns so here we stand.

The question is not one of starting the plant but rather of what basis and operating conditions it should be started. Not one of Fukushima's lessons has been addressed. Plant should not operate until those lessons are implemented. Beyond that, people got the shock of their lives when they were randomly informed by newspapers that a Dilli Billi somewhere had decided to add 4 to 6 more units in Kudankulam so more land will be acquired just like virus. Soon there will be nothing but nuclear power in this area.

SDRE desperate looking people in that picture are the vast majority of the population in the area. Children are in schools, literacy is 100% in this area and has been for some time. Fisherman community does not fish only and live only on coast.

[shiv]

The question is not one of starting the plant but rather of what basis and operating conditions it should be started. Not one of Fukushima's lessons has been addressed. Plant should not operate until those lessons are implemented. Beyond that, people got the shock of their lives when they were randomly informed by newspapers that a Dilli Billi somewhere had decided to add 4 to 6 more units in Kudankulam so more land will be acquired just like virus. Soon there will be nothing but nuclear power in this area.

Theo you are speaking with two tongues.

One tongue speaks like the elite and the "Lessons of Fukushima". I will pay you money if you can interview any of those wimmens and ask them if they are protesting that Fukushima's lessons have not been implemented. Please tell me what lessons were learnt and what has "not been implemented" and how these women know about that.

The people could well be protesting potential loss of land and businesses. Now the center cannot simply take over land without being in cahoots with the state government. The state government so far was the corrupt DMK, an ally of the INC at the center. But we really need to know who were the local leaders and what agreements they had reached for this to blow up now. When you talk of fisherman community etc you are talking like a politician. That is good. This is a political issue. What are the little political details if it is not the Church and some bishops who are messing about there? Speaking of village "Elders" is one thing - but India and Tamil Nadu is a politically charged and aware state. What are the local political dynamics?

[RamaY]

It might still be possible to salvage the situation at Kudankulam (editorial, Oct. 13) by adopting a “distance criterion” — an additional safeguard in the event of a possible mishap, which I evolved in 1985 when I was chairman of the Gujarat Pollution Control Board, after the Bhopal tragedy. “Distance criterion” is the creation of a sterile zone for a radius of 15 km for nuclear stations.

Is this feasible? a 15KM radius would mean 700+ SQ.KM area = 1,75,000 Acres.

[Theo_Fidel]

Shiv,

There is no two face. You are talking about different groups who have different views. Educated, Elders and the mass community.

For a long time the mass communities around Kudankulam have hated this plant and have complained bitterly about it. It was local leaders and their contacts, including the church Bishops who reassured them that this was a good project and good for the community. The masses were kept in check by these elders. This was a time I supported Kudankulam. You go back in the boards and read up. I trusted the scientists too, unfortunately not anymore.

My cousins from Nazareth, Pankudi and Nagerkovil have asked me and other like me what we think about the safety of the plant. And to a man the educated have said that they are no longer absolutely certain of the safety of Kudankulam. Nothing I've read on this board tells me the nuclear establishment is taking Fukushima seriously or even bothering to change their ways. Their response seems to be, "we know better, Kudankulam is safe, nothing further, go away you little gnats..". Elders are of the view that if anything is to be done it must be done now, before the plant starts. Hence the escalating protests.

If the educated told the elders that they are more comfortable with the safety aspects and have seen dramatic sincere changes and improvements to safety, the elder may rethink their position. As of now I've seen nothing that allows me to say that.

P.S. I havn't said this before but here is the real reason for this fear. My community lives between Nazereth and Nagerkovil. That's it. 99.99% of us live in this teeny tiny corner of India. It may seem like desert wasteland but it is all we have. If something happens at Kudankulam it will be the end of my community. We have no where else to go and we don't have large populations elsewhere. There may be other communities in similar positions but due to historical reasons my community is painfully aware of this and conscious of our isolation. Thought process is "no one is going to come to our aid in case of trouble". Educated always keep that fact in mind. This is why the agitation is likely to persist.
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RamaY,

That is part of the true cost of Nuclear power kept hidden by the nuclear establishment.
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G,

Cash compensation was paid many years ago. Land was classified as wasteland. From what I remember compensation was about Rs15,000 per acre 15 years ago. Many got far less. Nothing further was done, no homes built, no jobs created, no companies brought in, etc. Nuclear establishment makes lots of untrue claims of compensation. Even the electricity is 50% allocated to Kerala & Karnataka. Elders told people the project would payoff down the line. In a way it was their fault for trusting government.
vvvv

[gakakkad]

^^

any rehabilitation efforts so far ? I mean on the ground..because the project is several years old now... I am sure land would not have been acquired without thinking of the population it will displace ... they would have been given alternative shelters , no ? what is the situation on the ground ?

[vishvak]

If the educated told the elders that they are more comfortable with the safety aspects and have seen dramatic sincere changes and improvements to safety, the elder may rethink their position.

Is it the job of the educated to do this? By which rule? By which authority in absence of Govt. as intermediary? Are these people not willing to listen to ministers and want educated scientists to spend time learning public relations? What is then the Govt good for as an intermediary?

It is the Govt.'s job as an interface & intermediary to communicated & convince each side. When the Govt at center has given up its job, it has come to others to do as much, without any authority. Where is the central Govt here, in fact a central minister did visit and he was ignored (link). Now there is a 15-member committee of experts (link) doing the job of Govt.

Now does this mean that a new set of rules will be made especially for this, burdening the educated after the central Govt. abdicated its responsibilities? How will educated convince others and what type of authority do the educated have here, besides explaining everyone intricacies and what would happen if they are ignored? Why take such a twisted way when Govt. could have avoided the whole protests right from the beginning by good emissaries for convincing each side?

Why should the educated take any blame for this communication gap, especially when the Govt.s at center & state are busy playing favorites & throwing tantrums?

[shiv]

to a man the educated have said that they are no longer absolutely certain of the safety of Kudankulam. Nothing I've read on this board tells me the nuclear establishment is taking Fukushima seriously or even bothering to change their ways.

OK. I am out of this after this reply because it is personal for you and I have no business saying anything. Apologies if I caused hurt. But it is your fate that it is your community's ass on the line and your main source of technical safety information is BRF. If the latter observation is correct - well I'm sorry. The matter for you is too serious to trust BRF. If you are "educated" you need to talk to some people in the nuclear establishment.

[Theo_Fidel]

Word is that the minister came and mistook a couple of community elders for low caste riff-raff and dismissed them using a painful caste reference. This is why he got shout down and disrespected by otherwise peaceful and hospitable folk. If you listen carefully to one of the IBN TV broadcasts you can hear one of the elders in white with big handlebar mustache complain about 300 years of caste insults from ministers like him. Unfortunate incident that riled up everyone.

In any case he brought nothing new or concrete from Dilli. Just the same old "everything is safe..."
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Shiv,

I'm small potatos only. There are others with far more nuclear industry knowledge involved including US & EU. Several dozen work within the nuclear establishment as well. I will say no more.

[shiv]

Word is that the minister came and mistook a couple of community elders for low caste riff-raff and dismissed them using a painful caste reference.

Exactly. Dig deeper into India and you find that there is fresh warm yellow shit under the dry black crust. The Nuke team may have scored a massive self goal. Is there an online source for me to see the handlebar man? I don't watch CNN IBN. I have 80 other crappy channels to choose from.

[sanjaykumar]

It might be useful to look at relative risk, opportunity costs and the like.

To expect nuclear plants to be absolutely safe forever is foolish.

But then I don't drive because I might get into an accident. Flying ditto. Stepping out of the house ditto. I don't drink chlorinated water because of the phosgene. I don't se electricity because of CO2 and flyash, polyaromatic hydrocarbons etc.

I don't go to school because the buildings contain asbestos.

I am not too different from the good citizens of.......

[Sanatanan]

Nothing I've read on this board tells me the nuclear establishment is taking Fukushima seriously or even bothering to change their ways. Their response seems to be, "we know better, Kudankulam is safe, nothing further, go away you little gnats..".

shiv has already responded to the above quote.

Even so, the link below might be found useful. It gives further links to:

(1) A presentation (technical information which can be considered to be in an easy-to-understand format) on what happened at Fukushima. This presentation gives a summary of safety review at NPCIL covering the Fukushima event, post Fukushima review of Indian npps, safety audits conducted after NAPS fire Incident, MAPS Tsunami incident, TMI / Chernobyl accidents, lessons learnt from these events, summary of recommendations by Task Forces, and the actions taken / being taken following these events.

(2) Safety evaluations (7 documents) in the light of the Fukushima event, as applicable to different Indian PHWRs and the two BWRs at Tarapur 1&2. Some of the technical details given in these documents appear to be jargonised. To get a deep understanding, one may have to seek / receive detailed explanations about some of the more technical-sounding points brought out in these reports which have been submitted as a sequel to the safety review of all Indian npps ordered by PM. Nevertheless, perhaps there is enough in them to convince one that the above quote is more out of angst and perception rather than reality.

LINK